Article: What are Solgaleo and Lunala based on?

The new Pokémon Sun and Moon mascots had their typing recently confirmed. We dig around to try and make sense of the surprising allocations they received.

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I agree that Solgaleo is based on the green lion, but I also think both of them are based on the alchemical symbol for transmutation. It looks like two dragonlike figures with an eye at the bottom. I think that's why both of the legendaries have a third eye. Also, the moon is often associated with a giant bird in alchemy.

I also think that both of them must be linked to alchemy in some way, or else the spellings of "sunne" and "moone" don't make sense. They must be spelled that way for a reason. My suspicion is that both pokemon are somehow linked to the theories of John Dee, but I can't be certain.

Also, Solgaleo's Psychic type probably comes from the spiritual purification that comes with alchemy. Nowadays, many people believe that alchemy was actually a metaphor for enlightenment as well as the precursor to chemistry.

ShivaDF said:

I also think that both of them must be linked to alchemy in some way, or else the spellings of "sunne" and "moone" don't make sense. They must be spelled that way for a reason. My suspicion is that both pokemon are somehow linked to the theories of John Dee, but I can't be certain.

Also, Solgaleo's Psychic type probably comes from the spiritual purification that comes with alchemy. Nowadays, many people believe that alchemy was actually a metaphor for enlightenment as well as the precursor to chemistry.

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Sunne and Moone are old German translations of the words "sun" and "moon" so it makes sense now that you look at it. Besides, the Psychic-type seems to also have cosmic association, as shown with Cresselia, and the Kalos Psychic Gym Leader Olympia whose Gym has a space theme.

Solgaleo's Steel-type has alchemic roots, being associated with the purification of metal and the supposed fact that the sun's core has iron in it.

I think that the Psychic type is also connected to enlightenment. The connection between alchemy and enlightenment is a common theme in Chinese alchemy too, one that is explored in modern day Chinese (Taiwan included) Manhua and webtoons. Plus as Hikaru said there is a connection with the typing and heavenly bodies like Cresselia and Olympia. Actually the connection to space and psychic is pretty strong in Gen III introduced mons such as Solrock, Lunatone, Jirachi, and Deoxys, all of which are related to space. The relation continues between Gen III and IV, with V introducing Elygym's line which happen to be based on aliens. And as mentioned Gen VI had the 7th gym leader with the space motif. Back to Hoenn, that region's own 7th gym leaders are psychic specialists that happen to be the children of the guy who works in the Hoenn space center, that and they use the already mentioned Solrock and Lunatone. A lot of links between space and Psychic in Pokemon history. Perhaps one could also include Mew in here, seeing how Pokemon are said to come from space and Mew is said to be ancestor of all of them (well probably not the ancient legendaries like the Weather trio, Lake trio, Creation trio, and Arceus)...

There's also Evaki, the Goddess of Sleep: http://www.native-languages.org/evaki.htm

"Evaki is the Bakairi night goddess, aunt of the twin culture heroes Keri and Kame. Evaki has the responsibility of taking the sun out of the jar it is kept in every morning and putting it back away at night. Evaki is associated with sleep and dreams, and she is sometimes represented as a bat."

and http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/evaki.html

"Evaki is the South American goddess of the Bakairi Indians, the goddess of night and day. She has in her possession a pot with a lid, which she keeps with her at all times. In the morning she pulls the lid off the pot to let the sun out (this is the day). At the end of the day, the sun returns to the pot and she closes the lid, so that the sun cannot be seen anymore (this is the night). Evaki would also steal the sleep from lizard's eyes (which is why their eyes seem to bulge so much). She would share the sleep with the other living things."

It does seem kind of vague what Lunala is based on though.

Hikamaru said:

Sunne and Moone are old German translations of the words "sun" and "moon" so it makes sense now that you look at it. Besides, the Psychic-type seems to also have cosmic association, as shown with Cresselia, and the Kalos Psychic Gym Leader Olympia whose Gym has a space theme.

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i am german and the german words are Sonne und Mond.

i dont see it spelled sunne and moone. Sunne fits maybe but moone isnt a word that would come from german imo!

I assumed the Steel-typing on Solgaleo was a reference to the White Tiger of the West in Chinese and Japanese mythology, which represents the element of metal in the Chinese five-element system as well as the direction West (corresponding to the setting sun), the color white, and the season of autumn. Good to know about the alchemy connection, though. In retrospect, "Full Metal Body" is a fairly blatant hint to that.

KoalaEnCocaina said:

i am german and the german words are Sonne und Mond.

i dont see it spelled sunne and moone. Sunne fits maybe but moone isnt a word that would come from german imo!

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I heard it comes from an old style of German language.

The words Sunne and Moone are similar to how people used to say thy instead of you. Even the Japanese species for Solgaleo and Lunala use old Japanese words for sun and moon instead of their more modern equivalent.

I'm also investing in the idea of Solgaleo being based off the green lion devouring the sun. The theme for these games seems to be alchemy going by the concept behind Solgaleo and the designs of the three starters. Not quite sure where that leaves Lunala but I'm sure we'll find out soon!

I found a neat post on tumblr about Solgaleo and that it's possible association to a dying star. That said though, I love the idea of alchemy being involved in these guys' history too. I'd love to find out more when the games come out and find out exactly what they represent. Alchemy, dying stars, eclipses.... it could all be possible and if written write can make for a fabulous story.

Hikamaru said:

I heard it comes from an old style of German language.

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yea i do realize that.

but it doesnt sound german AT ALL!

and after quick research it seems to come from the english language, since i find it used pretty often in english poetry, and texts!

Example: "The Sunne or Moone in the firste minute of Aries do rise East, and set West, and shyne .12. houres. In the first minute of Taurus they rise néere the Easte ..."

Sources /Further examples study: https://www.google.de/search?sclien...nG=Suche&q=Moone+sunne#q=Moone+sunne&start=20


Salute

Luzu said:

I found a neat post on tumblr about Solgaleo and that it's possible association to a dying star. That said though, I love the idea of alchemy being involved in these guys' history too. I'd love to find out more when the games come out and find out exactly what they represent. Alchemy, dying stars, eclipses.... it could all be possible and if written write can make for a fabulous story.

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I think it is associated with dying stars. The first thing I thought when I saw it was steel was "well stars do die when gathering a great amount of iron and other heavy metals in their core. Hmm, could my idea of it coming from the core of the sun be true?"

I had a similar theory about Zygarde being based on the center of the Earth. Lunaala could represent the center of the moon, was believed to be cooled, or "dead" until recently.


P.S. minor correction to that Tumblr post, only giant stars become super novas. Smaller stars become plain novas, or if smaller white drawf stars. Our own star will become a white dwarf. Solgaleo comes to mind here, being the Sun mascot, a steel type, and white. White drawfs have the mass of the Sun but the Volume of the Earth irc.

Sunsteel sounds like an awesome name for a move, shame it doesn't exist. :)

pokestar1993 said:

The words Sunne and Moone are similar to how people used to say thy instead of you. Even the Japanese species for Solgaleo and Lunala use old Japanese words for sun and moon instead of their more modern equivalent.

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True - look up some Shakespeare for instance, and you'll see those spellings for sun and moon. Perhaps they simply classified Solgaleo and Lunala as such to give a more legendary, historic feel to them (and/or to create more interest in them - after all, we are discussing at length about this. :V) No alchemy link behind the spelling at any rate, just a ye olde English version.

ShivaDF said:

I agree that Solgaleo is based on the green lion, but I also think both of them are based on the alchemical symbol for transmutation. It looks like two dragonlike figures with an eye at the bottom. I think that's why both of the legendaries have a third eye. Also, the moon is often associated with a giant bird in alchemy.

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Is it? Neat, I hadn't seen that fact. That said, a bat is regarded as different to a bird (and unlike birds are mammals), so I'm not personally convinced that we have an alchemy link here. Maybe if given (from a quick google search) that the moon can also have some life and death theme to it which ties to the Ghost typing... but it seems to be more regarded as a tie to silver if anything from my limited knowledge.

Also, Solgaleo's Psychic type probably comes from the spiritual purification that comes with alchemy. Nowadays, many people believe that alchemy was actually a metaphor for enlightenment as well as the precursor to chemistry.

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Yeah, I suppose that is certainly a possibility.

Hikamaru said:

Solgaleo's Steel-type has alchemic roots, being associated with the purification of metal and the supposed fact that the sun's core has iron in it.

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I need to clarify this - is this some old theory from alchemy? Because it isn't the case- I mean, maybe there is a bit (albeit extremely unlikely), but it'd be such a small amount compared to the primary core elements of out sun, which converts hydrogen to helium (and the energy release of that is what makes it shine). Nor will the sun later on in its lifetime reach this stage; it's just too small. Some large stars do eventually gain a iron core - but that's a very short-lived stage as once any star gains that they inevitably go supernovae.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

Plus as Hikaru said there is a connection with the typing and heavenly bodies like Cresselia and Olympia. Actually the connection to space and psychic is pretty strong in Gen III introduced mons such as Solrock, Lunatone, Jirachi, and Deoxys, all of which are related to space.The relation continues between Gen III and IV, with V introducing Elygym's line which happen to be based on aliens.

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That's certainly true. It should be noted that it's not always the case - the legendaries of space and time (Palkia/Dialga) share the Dragon typing instead, and meanwhile there's the classic Clefairy example. But it's certainly worth consideration.

Caaethil said:

Sunsteel sounds like an awesome name for a move, shame it doesn't exist. :)

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Herp, I forgot to fix that with the 'Strike' and it slipped past editing. *fixes*

Reading the comments here made me realize there's a lot of mythologies relating to sun and moon from various countries I wasn't aware of, haha.

I've been hearing Solgaleo's association with alchemy a lot, but I still think it's cool if that's the case. Lunala seems a bit harder to pinpoint the myth it's based on, but I think the idea of it being associated to the ghost bat mentioned in the article is cute.

Bay Alexison said:

Reading the comments here made me realize there's a lot of mythologies relating to sun and moon from various countries I wasn't aware of, haha.

I've been hearing Solgaleo's association with alchemy a lot, but I still think it's cool if that's the case. Lunala seems a bit harder to pinpoint the myth it's based on, but I think the idea of it being associated to the ghost bat mentioned in the article is cute.

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I have heard a theory that the legends are based on the Hawaiian Sun god and Moon goddess, which are said to be spirits. Some think that the animals were just chosen due to their connection the sun in Heraldry or in the case of Lunala, the night which brings to mind the moon. If so then it's more obvious with Lunala that they just picked an animal they think would've fit, as Solgaleo seems to have other influences.

So, after seeing all these comments, I figured I'd go as deep as I could into the art/culture of alchemy. I found many instances relating to Fire, the Moon, Lions, an Ibis, etc. I took screenshots of the explanations of all these symbols cuz I was too lazy to type them. But basically, all these symbols can easily explain references to both legendary Pokemon.