‘I’m a monster’

[Kanzler]

A Belgian man has been killed by medical euthanasia after claiming that a botched sex change operation had turned him into "a monster."

Nathan, born Nancy, Verhelst, 44, was given legal euthanasia, most likely by lethal injection, on the grounds of "unbearable psychological suffering."

Wim Distelmans, a cancer specialist who carried out the euthanasia on Monday, is the same doctor who last year gave lethal injections to congenitally deaf twins who were frightened they were also going blind.

Explaining his decision hours before his death, Mr. Verhelst said he was "the girl that nobody wanted."

He told Het Laatste Nieuws newspaper: "While my brothers were celebrated, I got a storage room above the garage as a bedroom. 'If only you had been a boy,' my mother complained. I was tolerated, nothing more."

He was in a situation with incurable, unbearable suffering. Unbearable suffering for euthanasia can be both physical and psychological Mr. Verhelst had hormone therapy in 2009, followed by a mastectomy and surgery to construct a penis last year.

However, "none of these operations worked as desired", he said. "I was ready to celebrate my new birth, but when I looked in the mirror, I was disgusted with myself. My new breasts did not match my expectations and my new penis had symptoms of rejection. I do not want to be a monster."

He informed his family of his death by letter. "I had happy times, but the balance is on the wrong side," he said.

Distelmans said: "He was in a situation with incurable, unbearable suffering. Unbearable suffering for euthanasia can be both physical and psychological."

Mr. Verhelst's death will revive Belgium's debate over medical euthanasia as statistics show a 25% increase this year, to 1,432, in the number of cases. The country is one of only three in Europe, along with The Netherlands and Luxembourg, that allows the practice.

A Belgian man dies by medical euthanasia after botched sex change operation.

Is medical euthanasia morally sound? What about in his case, psychological suffering? Is it permissible for him to die because a lot of people ****ed up his life? This is not a case of terminal disease where you know a person will die and they will only suffer more as they inch closer.

What does this tell us about sex-reassignment surgery? What does this tell us about gender identities in general? For me the lesson is that gender differences and identities are significant, and that one does not simply pick and choose a gender lest they suffer the consequences as he had.

 

[Mana1]

I honestly thought this thread was about Lady Gaga fans... 'Legal Euthanasia' would have probably been a better title.

Anywho, I think that as long as the person has given written permission (as well with a psychological analysis to make sure they are responsible enough to make a decision) then euthanasia should be a legal option. I don't think it matters if it is a psychological illness of physical illness, as long as the above is true.

I don't think anyone who is not going through sex-change surgery can really comment on your second point. It's a fairly obvious and accepted point. I'd imagine that any type of corrective surgery that ends up going hideously wrong would be a very emotional matter.

 

[Alice]

It's a terrible thing, yes... but it's much more terrible to force them to do it themselves. I'm still really torn on it, but we seem to have no problem euthanizing our pets, because we don't want them to suffer... so why do we want humans to suffer? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Flushed]

For me, my views on suicide pretty much mirror euthanasia. Obviously if it's something that can be avoided, by all means, do whatever necessary, but there are those who feel unbearable psychological pain, and although death isn't validated, it can't be automatically ruled out as an option.

This case of gender identity is somewhat interesting to me in that he seemed to have developed dysphoria and was not it fact born with it. At least that's how I interpret it. Not sure what that means in the context of the topic, but something that was different than others' stories I've heard.

 

[Kanzler]

For me, my views on suicide pretty much mirror euthanasia. Obviously if it's something that can be avoided, by all means, do whatever necessary, but there are those who feel unbearable psychological pain, and although death isn't validated, it can't be automatically ruled out as an option.

This case of gender identity is somewhat interesting to me in that he seemed to have developed dysphoria and was not it fact born with it. At least that's how I interpret it. Not sure what that means in the context of the topic, but something that was different than others' stories I've heard.

That's another thing. Did he develop dysphoria, or was he just under so much pressure with a rejection of his own sex that he felt like becoming the other sex? Was it likely that ever felt female? Or did he feel male all along but it was the source of his rejection? Was it internal to him or was it the product of his environment?

Also, who's Lady Gaga? :P

 

[Esper]

Lady who?

Just want to start by saying I'm okay with the idea of euthanasia, but only if very strictly regulated.

Normally, I would say that it should be reserved for those people who are terminally ill, but this makes me think it could - under certain circumstances - be applicable in other cases. I mean, I don't like the idea of needless suffering, like, at all. Stopping needless suffering is probably the cornerstone of my moral beliefs. So this story tears at my heart because a person suffering such hate for themselves shouldn't have to feel that way.

All the things that happened to him are terrible: loveless family, failed surgery. I would like to think that counseling could help with the family problems, and that additional surgery could help fix the physical ones. That makes me feel like he opted for euthanasia perhaps too soon. I don't like to judge people when they're in a bad place mentally though. He may not have been able to get any better and if that's the case then I don't think it was the wrong decision.

We just don't know enough about this person to judge, I think. We can hope that he had talked with several professionals and we can work to make sure that anyone in the future would have those resources.

 

[Rezilia]

How do you not know Lady Gaga?! o.0 She's one of America's most popular music artists!

...

The more you know...?

---

The problem, I see, is with society. America is based on the concepts of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. These three things guided not only us but also the rest of the world. Unfortunately, times have changed since the great golden age where those three were upheld. The majority of the world is unhappy, our liberties are being taken way by the second, and people would rather die than live.

I'm Pro-Sow, that being, if someone wants to die, they should have the right to, since they decided it. They should be able to reap the life they've sown - atleast, their own life. Why would you WANT to live in a world where you prefer death over life? I mean, really...

As for the gender issue, it only happened because the medical world cares too much about making new kinds of pills than finding full solutions - in issues like cancer all the way down to sex changes. "He" would not have been a monster if the sex change went right.

 

[Star-Lord]

Isn't legal euthanasia regulated for the most part?

It still makes me sick to my stomach that The Supreme Court of Canada denied Nancy Rodriguez way back when. I'm just glad that tides are changing in my country.

 

[mouseyface]

What are you talking about ????

 

[Entermaid]

How do you not know Lady Gaga?! o.0 She's one of America's most popular music artists!

I'm Pro-Sow, that being, if someone wants to die, they should have the right to, since they decided it.
.

You mean she was one of America's most popular music artists! :p

Anyway, back on point!

No one decides for themselves they want to die of their own free will. That rationality is derived from genetic predispositions in relation to the environment (social constructs).

Again, as I explain in the other thread quite thoroughly, ideas are constructed by firing neurons, controlled by genetic instructions that dictate how to respond once confronted with an environmental stimulus. And, humans don't manufacture their own instructions to the brain, it is determined before birth as is the environment.

 

[Rezilia]

You mean she was one of America's most popular music artists! :p

Anyway, back on point!

No one decides for themselves they want to die of their own free will. That rationality is derived from genetic predispositions in relation to the environment (social constructs).

Again, as I explain in the other thread quite thoroughly, ideas are constructed by firing neurons, controlled by genetic instructions that dictate how to respond once confronted with an environmental stimulus. And, humans don't manufacture their own instructions to the brain, it is determined before birth as is the environment.

That isn't on point, at all, whatsoever. Please don't bring your "no one has free will" voodoo mumbo jumbo into a serious thread. Thank you.

Oh, and she STILL is. Last time I checked, 2012 is still considered recent.

--

I'd actually like to here your position on the first post.

 

[CoffeeDrink]

I'm confused, koff~

The article says that the man, 44, died. He was 'the girl that no one wanted'. Okay, got that? Good. Then, counting in the sex change, was this originally a man or a woman? I assume that it was a woman before the operation.

Anyway, I think euthanasia is a viable option. Imagine if you suffer from Alzheimer's disease (I know a couple of these people) and you are eventually going to forget your loved ones and can't do anything to stop it. Eventually, you'll become paranoid of who they really are. They'll introduce themselves, you'll have a minor break through, and it starts all over again. I'd say just shoot me at that point. Another example is old people and the pain they go through when their joints fail and their bodies fade. These are extreme examples (not really) and don't correlate well with the 44 year old person. I think they could have gotten help in time, koffi~

 

[Rezilia]

^ Born a girl, wanted to be a man, ended up a man but didn't think "he" was "masculine enough".

Interestingly enough, in fiction, characters that change to the other gender typically like the change even though it tends to be accidental and decide to stay the new gender. We normally see this more in men becoming women. In fact, a few wrestlers - which society tends to see as overly masculine by nature - have turned into women and enjoy it, but they're being met with where-should-they-fight issues due to gender seperation in the sport...

Point being, both in fiction and reality, men turned into women have generally loved the transformation. As for women turning into men, there aren't many examples of being overjoyed, outright disappointed, or just plain okay...until the article above. Okay, turns out there are tons, but men turning into women seems more popular. A good example of a trans man is Buck Angel - and as you may see, there's no problems on his end. This means the surgeon was most likely the issue, not the procedure.

 

[Flushed]

As for the gender issue, it only happened because the medical world cares too much about making new kinds of pills than finding full solutions - in issues like cancer all the way down to sex changes. "He" would not have been a monster if the sex change went right.

That's not exactly something you can out-right assume.

Regarding the SRS, quite a few who receive the operation get follow-up aesthetic surgeries. Modern medicine doesn't strike me as one to botch an operation to the point of no return. Without knowing specifics, it begs the question as to why he didn't go through with more surgeries. I'm not sure about something like penile rejection, but I would think breast reduction can be reconstructed to a point where he'd be happier. Obviously I'm not trying to sugar-coat the pain he was feeling, but I feel as if options existed that weren't explored, and I stand firmly by the belief that everything else that can be done, should be done, before euthanasia is carried out.

 

[Entermaid]

That isn't on point, at all, whatsoever. Please don't bring your "no one has free will" voodoo mumbo jumbo into a serious thread. Thank you.

Oh, and she STILL is. Last time I checked, 2012 is still considered recent.

--

I'd actually like to here your position on the first post.

Consent and state of mind is an important aspect of this topic, rather than dismiss the argument without an explanation could you explain as to why your assertion that this individual chose to kill himself of his own free will is valid. The argument rests upon that article of evidence.

 

[Crux]

Is it permissible for him to die because a lot of people ****ed up his life?

Permissible?
Are you the one living his life? Are you some sort of god that passes judgement on the dead? Do you have any right to decide whether his death was 'justified' by looking at the sparse details that an internet article gave you? In the case of suicide, and yes, this is suicide, it should be a choice on the part of the lifer, not the observer. Nobody, nobody, gets to decide what a person's life is like unless they're the one living it. He may have been weak, he may have been a coward, but his life belonged to him, and he had a right to it.

 

[Kanzler]

Permissible?
Are you the one living his life? Are you some sort of god that passes judgement on the dead? Do you have any right to decide whether his death was 'justified' by looking at the sparse details that an internet article gave you? In the case of suicide, and yes, this is suicide, it should be a choice on the part of the lifer, not the observer. Nobody, nobody, gets to decide what a person's life is like unless they're the one living it. He may have been weak, he may have been a coward, but his life belonged to him, and he had a right to it.

I'm a person that passes judgment on other persons, alive or dead. I have an interest in psychology and society - and I do care about how other people live their lives, in addition to my own. People are entitled to their own life, but it has not bearing on whether or not they know what they are doing and it is important to take note of that "separation". I probably don't know my own interests as much as I should. But we can learn from others.

 

[Crux]

If you have an interest in psychology then doesn't it make more sense to observe the people around you rather then judge somebody you don't even know? I too have this grand curiosity into the human mind, but to truly understand the causes of the things that we as humans do you can't just look at a summarized, and possibly biased, story on the internet. You need to be able to get into a persons head.

You want to know how a person who would pull suicide thinks? They're tired.
Tired of the melancholy, tired of the judgement, of the stress, of the anger, of the overwhelming sorrow, of everything. If they ask for help or try to tell somebody about what they're going through then they get pity, or the person they tell thinks that if they look away for just a minute then their friend will throw themself out the window. Unless you've stood on the ledge before, then you can't understand what goes on in your head as you look down. Your past, your present, your future.
There is no 'Separation' in a persons head from suicide. The "Separation" is something that people invented to help console themselves.

 

[Kanzler]

Of course they're going through those feelings. However, it is not one's place to tell someone else how to think about an issue. This is not a place to place claims on who can say what.

This is one of those cases that give you the unique opportunity to think hard about something. And we're all doing it. Not one of the posters here have given a concrete, simple answer, nor have they passed judgment onto him. I'm sure they understand the gravity of his circumstance, even if they have not felt it as intimately as others have.

People have things to say, and I don't see what's wrong with that. This discussion can continue to move forwards.

 

[Rezilia]

You want to know how a person who would pull suicide thinks? They're tired.
Tired of the melancholy, tired of the judgement, of the stress, of the anger, of the overwhelming sorrow, of everything. If they ask for help or try to tell somebody about what they're going through then they get pity, or the person they tell thinks that if they look away for just a minute then their friend will throw themself out the window. Unless you've stood on the ledge before, then you can't understand what goes on in your head as you look down. Your past, your present, your future.
There is no 'Separation' in a persons head from suicide. The "Separation" is something that people invented to help console themselves.

^ This. This right here is where I'm getting at. If someone wants to die, let them die. It's their choice. I don't care if you think "well their biology made them do it not themselves" - that's ridiculous. No human can be defined by any other human - period. As an individualist, I believe a single person can only be defined by themselves, not anyone else. Like the idea that someone is "insane" and putting them in an asylum against their will - it's BS and should not exist. If someone wants to die, let them die. No human has the right, I don't care what their reasoning, to go against the will of another.