Suggestion: 18+ Members Section

[droomph]

How about something like this website on specially-marked threads? I mean, if you want you can click yes, even if you're underage, then that's fine, because I know some 13 year olds that can carry themselves in talks about genitals better than most 18+s.

And the rules would be more strict. If you act like a dick, you would be kicked off the 18+, where on the normal threads you would simply be warned, etc.

 

[Nick]

But if we actually create something like this, then we would also need to make it impossible to tweak your age.

As I already said, the admins can do that with a simple change in the Admin CP. That was actually a change that was supposed to happen a long time ago, but I think it was just forgot about.

If that's the case then why do the rules state that posting porn leads to an immediate permaban regardless of a position? I mean who cares, they've seen it all already right? This is supposed to be a family friendly site. Admittedly many of us including myself are adults who do feel urges to discuss adult topic sometimes, I enjoy engaging in mild flirtation but really, this is a public place, keep it in your pants.

We're talking about discussing a mature topic (and it doesn't have to necessarily be about sex). Not posting images or videos of porn. Though, we don't allow posting porn because a) its inappropriate and b) guests can view that without any problem. We don't nurture or promote posting porn, but we do nurture and promote discussion. We have allowed topics of sex and religion on here for years, which was a big step forward and one that worked out for the best. The member base handled those changes just fine, and the way the moderators at the time handled it was perfect.

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

Even discussion of porn can affect kids, just like M-rated fanfiction.

 

[Outlier]

3. A lot of the things posted will already be talked about in D&D and really I think a debating forum is a far more engaging and interesting environment for more serious topics to be spread in.

I was thinking of a more casual section than D&D to be honest. I wouldn't be opposed to people posting about some of the more serious subject matter that gets talked about in D&D, but for the most part I envisioned an adults only version of the chit chat cafe. No disrespect to the CCC because I love that section, I think it's one of the best in the whole forum. But a lot of the topics there are just so innocent and I would feel very out of place and inappropriate if I wanted to discuss certain things that most of us older members can relate to.

Like others have said we have a lot of adult users on here, and I think that warrants giving this section a chance.

 

[Puddle]

I suggested this a long time ago on a different account and a lot of people believed that it shouldn't be added because it's a forum based on Pokemon and shouldn't have anything like that on their site, especially if people lie.

 

[droomph]

Even discussion of porn can affect kids, just like M-rated fanfiction.

That's kinda…

I can tell you when I was 12 and everybody was talking about porn, nothing really changed me.

And if we were to apply that evenly and not just cherry-pick topics that affect children, we couldn't talk about drugs on CCC (and there have been a couple of "do you use" threads) and no talk about sexuality, etc. Basically everything we already have.

Seriously. Who has been traumatized by discussion of porn preferences? I didn't know what any of that meant until I was 9 and even after that puberty kinda was the main factor for how I got myself so "traumatized" and sex and stuff.

 

[Mana1]

This is a PG-13 forum and I would find it inappropriate and highly irresponsible if anything '18+' were to occur here. There are other places for that, but this is a pokémon forum and that should be the main point of us being here.

People will fake their age, it's an inevitability of the matter, so it should just be shut down at all costs.

'Adult' topics sometimes come up in D&D and CCC - I know I've reported a few that were borderline. I can only imagine the chaos and pushed-boundaries of a mature section.

 

[donavannj]

Even discussion of porn can affect kids, just like M-rated fanfiction.

Have you ever been in a discussion amongst 12 and 13 year olds as a 12 or 13 year old before? Their conversations are quite dirty as it is, considering they're 12/13. They discuss sexual topics like porn as maturely as 12 and 13 year olds are prone to, which is to say not very mature at all, because they're all filled with raging hormones. Their parents and their peers are exposing them to sexual topics by allowing them to watch PG-13 movies. Besides, as has already been stated before, if such discussions were to be permitted, the age field would be made so that it's not able to be changed after joining and that such discussions would be automatically blocked to those under 18.

I'd also presume people would have the sense to sideline discussions of their more grotesque kinks.

I'm not sure I feel PC is an appropriate place to get into full-on sexual discussions, but if the threads are only accessible to those over 18 through an automated means, then I'm okay with it. Besides, if they want to bypass, they will, and if they bypass that's on them for breaking the sock-puppetry rules in place, among other things.

 

[Hatsune Mika]

But if we actually create something like this, then we would also need to make it impossible to tweak your age.

I actualy know something that can prevent it and prevent alt accounts. Blizzard.com's website. If you put younger than 18 then its declined from the site or at least that part of the site, and so PC could have an autocheck and then see if thet pass or not and they can't come through. Then there is the aly profile problem. That's where PC can put in something that tracks the ip address only enough to block the kiddies from entering.

 

[Captain Gizmo]

This idea seems good, but if people tweak their age just to look at these forums specifically, then it's their problem. We aren't responsible for their acts of lying with their age. And besides, it's only gonna be mature topic discussions, no porn or grotesque images neither.

 

[derozio]

I'm all in for the 18+ tags for some of the more 'adult' threads that get made here. But not for the section itself. We're already pretty open about it. CCC allows a good amount of freedom.

I can see why you'd want it though, Introvert, as DD generally holds threads that are more mature/adult in nature but robs (for the lack of a better term) the topic of its fun/chatty side. Its all about serious discussions over there. :p

But not too keen on the section, nope. I'm happy with the way things are in CCC. It allows a lot of freedom. A little more ~could~ be granted but then it'll really be pushing some boundaries. Even though it might sound strange coming from me, haha.

 

[Outlier]

This is a PG-13 forum and I would find it inappropriate and highly irresponsible if anything '18+' were to occur here. There are other places for that, but this is a pokémon forum and that should be the main point of us being here.

People will fake their age, it's an inevitability of the matter, so it should just be shut down at all costs.

'Adult' topics sometimes come up in D&D and CCC - I know I've reported a few that were borderline. I can only imagine the chaos and pushed-boundaries of a mature section.

While I respect your desire to maintain a PG-13 forum, there are a lot of older members who come here for other reasons than to discuss Pokemon. Not everything discussed in this section would be excessive gore, violence and sexuality. This is the hypersensitive mentality that coddles our youth. Especially considering this section wouldn't allow younger members at all. These younger members whom you worry about peeking into this section could just as easily find inappropriate and taboo content anywhere else if they wanted to.

There are measures you can take to prevent minors from being able to access this section. Of course there's no full-proof way to stop someone from lying about their age, but at that point it's on them and their parents.

 

[Mana1]

While I respect your desire to maintain a PG-13 forum, there are a lot of older members who come here for other reasons than to discuss Pokemon.

And we accommodate plenty of non-pokémon things. Can you give examples of threads that this section would include, that don't already fit what is available?

What children do outside of PC is none of our business. But if we can prevent them seeing that, and being part of those kind of conversations, then I will fight for that. We have flexibility in D&D and CCC already. What else do you really feel the need to discuss on a pokémon forum? Please, I'd like examples.

 

[gimmepie]

Another thing that has occurred to me here, is that we have a lot of users who are close to eighteen - like sixteen or seventeen - who are every bit as mature and well-reasoned that our 18+ members if not more so and who actively take part in conversations of a more serious nature. If we were to suddenly implement something like 18+ tags or a section like what Introvert is after we'd effectively be depriving members of conversations that they may wish to be a part of and could contribute too whilst the rather lax CCC seems to be just strict enough to keep such topics clean but not too strict whilst still allowing these members to contribute.

My problems with this really have nothing to do with the age thing, we've discussed that enough already and it is already pretty clear that most of us can agree that age-tweaking will happen and that there's a lot of discrepancy in opinions. I'm more concerned about fairness and functionality and really I don't think that this section is fair to the sort of members I just mentioned nor do I think it is really going to be that functional considering how things already stand. I just don't see a need for the change.

If there was a forum like this added to PC, I dare say I would probably visit it. But really all it is going to do is irritate the "nearly-18's" and take away a lot of the topics present in CCC and D&D from those sections.

If some sort of 18+ system must be implemented I think the tags perhaps would be a more effective method but really, why are we considering hiding this stuff now when our younger members have almost certainly seen it already in CCC or D&D since we don't currently have such a system?

Furthermore, since D&D and CCC are already pretty fair about such topics if handled maturely, what more could we possibly need an 18+ section for? A section like that really just seems to be asking for trouble if you ask me and would require really strict moderation, pointless effort really. At least if you were to use the tags this would be less of a problem.

So yes, in summary: If either of the suggested systems came about I would probably take part in the 18+ discussions but I really don't think that such a thing is needed here at this time, is fair to all of our members or will be worth the effort required by staff to keep it functioning maturely and without hassles.

 

[Outlier]

And we accommodate plenty of non-pokémon things. Can you give examples of threads that this section would include, that don't already fit what is available?

What children do outside of PC is none of our business. But if we can prevent them seeing that, and being part of those kind of conversations, then I will fight for that. We have flexibility in D&D and CCC already. What else do you really feel the need to discuss on a pokémon forum? Please, I'd like examples.

Just a section where you're able to go into more intimate and sometimes graphic detail about certain things in life.

I think that fetish thread which got locked was a good example of something that would have been allowed in an adult's only section.

Sex would without a doubt be one of the types of threads we would see in this section but I'd like to think we'd be capable of discussing more than that.

Perhaps threads and posts about stories about our endeavors during a night out with our mates that wouldn't be appropriate for the CCC section.

NarutoForums is a good example of a site that implemented this type of section successfully. But as I'm no longer a member there I can't really give you any more specific examples. Just give it a chance guys, we'll never know unless we try.

 

[Mana1]

I've been on previous forums before, I've been the 16 year old accessing older forums on a website designed for a younger audience (Sims 2 based, actually) and it was a mess.

You've given no example of non-sex threads, yet claim there would be a great chance for more mature content. Your 'nights out' idea isn't even that mature really, I'm sure I've seen similar things about alcohol mentioned in CCC as well as the DCC there.

I will not support a forum that is essentially going to be a cupboard full of sex talk, fetish lists and 'mature' (used loosely, since LOLSEX is hardly mature) content.

 

[Hatsune Mika]

Some of the non sexual topics we could more better talk about here could be heated debates that D&D has rules for. We could also talk to other adults with more mature problems going on that don't involve sex like taxes, bills, advanced jobs amd opinions, etc. I have no problem with 18+ tags nor am I going with the tags. I am sure underage users would like to know if there is a section with set rules than to find someone in an 18+ because of the current activity on a profile.

 

[gimmepie]

Tax, Bills, Jobs - help with those sorts of things can just as easily be found in the Help and Advice Thread in D&D so there is no need to include that sort of thing in an 18+ forum.

Introvert a lot of what you mentioned is already freely discussed within D&D and CCC, it is because it couldn't be handled maturely and got out of hand that the fetish thread (and others I think?) was closed. I mean I'm not a mod or anything so I wouldn't know for sure but people were posting images in there that were clearly designed to give sexual gratification (even if that isn't what the posters in there were using it for) and I'm pretty sure that goes against this sites policies. If those are the same members that will be posting in an 18+ section I don't trust them to follow the rules in such a section - where it could be even more vital strict rules are enforced - any more than they did in that thread.

It's like I keep saying, if you're for such a forum or something similar I respect your opinion - hell I'd probably visit said forum sometimes - but there is no need for such a forum and having one will likely bring more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Outlier]

I've been on previous forums before, I've been the 16 year old accessing older forums on a website designed for a younger audience (Sims 2 based, actually) and it was a mess.

Then that was your own fault for accessing forums that weren't meant for people your age. Would you blame a supermarket if you bought cigarettes from there with a fake ID? Besides at 16 you should have known better.

You've given no example of non-sex threads, yet claim there would be a great chance for more mature content. Your 'nights out' idea isn't even that mature really, I'm sure I've seen similar things about alcohol mentioned in CCC as well as the DCC there.

Perhaps I'm not the best person to give specific examples as I was more of a part time lurker than an active poster in these kinds of sections in other forums. I think the biggest difference was the vibe of those sections. People seemed to be more willing to reveal parts about themselves and their day when they knew there weren't younger members present. Because most people have that "think of the children" mentality and on a forum about a children's franchise a lot of older members might not feel comfortable talking about certain things. And with good reason!

Think of it as a conversation you would have with your friends, then compare it to the way you would speak if you had a younger brother who was 12 years old right there listening. It's not a knock on our younger members, a lot of them are very mature and some of them are smarter than me lol. But I don't think you can deny that there would be a vastly different vibe in an 18+ members section. Whether that difference would be a good thing or not is something I don't think we'll find out until we try it.

I will not support a forum that is essentially going to be a cupboard full of sex talk, fetish lists and 'mature' (used loosely, since LOLSEX is hardly mature) content.

But how do you know that this section will turn out the way you envision it to unless it's given a proper chance? I must say you seem very sensitive to sexual topics but people can talk about that sort of thing without being immature and "crass". Even if people were to bee immature, as long as they weren't posting ludicrously sexual things then who cares if they were "mature" about it.

Apparently you've seen these kinds of sections not turn out so good on a forum before, but also I've seen it work on a couple of occasions so it can be done.

If we can come up with some rules, guidelines and a mod willing and able for the job then why not give this thing a chance?

 

[gimmepie]

@Introvert - I would suggest if you could actually give non-sexual yet practical topic suggestions you could possibly alleviate some of Magic Fox's doubt. But as it stands nobody has really been able to do that.

The reason some of us seeing a forum like that turn out that way is pretty clear to me, although guys do correct me if I am wrong, because we have already seen that the community members who will most likely post there cannot be trusted to follow the rules and the guidelines as to create at least somewhat meaningful discussion - I think that the fetish thread is a perfect example of that.

I mean, as I said. I'm not a staff member. So I can only guess at their reasoning, but that is certainly a large part of my own reasoning for thinking that such a forum isn't such a great idea and that is without going into why I don't think it's practical or fair again.