Alola Forms

[blue]

I could think of a whole bunch of Pokemon beyond the first generation that I'd love to see get an Alolan form, but at this stage it doesn't seem likely. I do love the concept of these forms and there are still a couple of Kanto Pokemon that I'd like to see with one. Parasect and Porygon spring to mind.

 

[Charlie Brown]

If we're going to get Alola forms of Pokemon from other generations, a sequel or a third game (assuming that happens) to Sun & Moon would be the perfect opportunity to do so.

If Alolan forms represent how different Pokémon adapted to different environments, the only way I can see many new Alolan forms appearing in a third game is if there are significantly different areas we can explore in a third game/sequel (which is definitely a possibility!).

But actually that begs the question, from a history point of view, I wonder why only Kanto-native Pokémon have adapted with new forms in Alola. Surely Johto-native Pokémon would too, since Kanto and Johto are geographically connected.

 

[Rivvon]

If Alolan forms represent how different Pokémon adapted to different environments, the only way I can see many new Alolan forms appearing in a third game is if there are significantly different areas we can explore in a third game/sequel (which is definitely a possibility!).

This. I honestly don't think they can make any areas that are so drastically different that it warrants Pokémon who are already in the region to suddenly change. I'd personally rather get Sinnoh remakes rather than a third version or sequel to SM, so that the actual change in location can warrant some non-gen 1 pandering.

But actually that begs the question, from a history point of view, I wonder why only Kanto-native Pokémon have adapted with new forms in Alola. Surely Johto-native Pokémon would too, since Kanto and Johto are geographically connected.

One of the major problems I have with Alola forms at the moment. It's so unrealistic to think that Pokémon form Johto, which is right next to Kanto (there are some gen 2 Pokémon that originally could only be found in Kanto, at that), don't need to adapt while all these Kanto Pokémon are adapting. And they've shown some gen 4 Pokémon in Alola as well; you're telling me a Pokémon from a super-cold climate didn't need to adapt to this hot, tropical climate at all? Sure, Alola, sure.

 

[Charlie Brown]

This. I honestly don't think they can make any areas that are so drastically different that it warrants Pokémon who are already in the region to suddenly change. I'd personally rather get Sinnoh remakes rather than a third version or sequel to SM, so that the actual change in location can warrant some non-gen 1 pandering.

Yessss I agree. And some of the Alola forms currently I don't really see why they had a need to adapt to life in Alola - mainly Alolan Meowth, whose supplied reason (something about being more cunning iirc) doesn't really make that much sense for an adaptation to occur.

One of the major problems I have with Alola forms at the moment. It's so unrealistic to think that Pokémon form Johto, which is right next to Kanto (there are some gen 2 Pokémon that originally could only be found in Kanto, at that), don't need to adapt while all these Kanto Pokémon are adapting. And they've shown some gen 4 Pokémon in Alola as well; you're telling me a Pokémon from a super-cold climate didn't need to adapt to this hot, tropical climate at all? Sure, Alola, sure.

Yeah again I definitely agree. I feel like these might be more fanservice with the reasoning attached, rather than the other way around. Sure there's that evolution/adapting to the environment aspect to them but I feel like there's not a whole heap of thought put into which Pokémon get Alola forms and how that relates to the wider Pokémon ecosystem that we've been talking about. It's more like "cool Alola forms for adaptation/environmental reasons, let's choose these Gen I Pokémon for their marketability and because we can do cool things with them", not so much "let's choose Pokémon from very different climates that would have a need to adapt to the environment in Alola.

 

[Knyte]

Yessss I agree. And some of the Alola forms currently I don't really see why they had a need to adapt to life in Alola - mainly Alolan Meowth, whose supplied reason (something about being more cunning iirc) doesn't really make that much sense for an adaptation to occur.



Yeah again I definitely agree. I feel like these might be more fanservice with the reasoning attached, rather than the other way around. Sure there's that evolution/adapting to the environment aspect to them but I feel like there's not a whole heap of thought put into which Pokémon get Alola forms and how that relates to the wider Pokémon ecosystem that we've been talking about. It's more like "cool Alola forms for adaptation/environmental reasons, let's choose these Gen I Pokémon for their marketability and because we can do cool things with them", not so much "let's choose Pokémon from very different climates that would have a need to adapt to the environment in Alola.

Although I agree, I also beg to differ. The choice of Alola forms was probably to try whether Poke-fans would respond well to 'refreshing' or redesigning Pokemon instead of introducing new ones and to have a lesser need to introduce newer Pokemon. We're very close to the #1000 Pokemon mark and I feel people would be less interested if they did hit that mark or go beyond it. It's just a theory but I think it's plausible. :)

 

[MarinoKadame]

Not only Kanto Pokemon get Alola Forms but they also get exclusive Z-Moves as well.

 

[Hikamaru]

I think that it's a very strong assumption to make that Alola forms are simply fanservice in the guise of a game mechanic. Even as someone who generally looks through things from a cynical lens, we don't know why Kanto Pokemon seem to be this one exception, and what makes them so different that they get Alola forms while Pokemon from other generations don't.

Could it be fanservice, especially towards those players who have picked up a 3DS for the first time because of Pokemon GO? Perhaps, I'm not outright dismissing the possibility entirely, I'm just personally being very wary myself of what this could mean for games beyond S/M. It's going to feel really really odd if S/M are going to be left as one set of games with about ~15-20 (throwing out a random number, here) Alola forms while future main game series don't really have or incorporate this kind of mechanic, which is the very reason why I'm thinking it's a possibility for S/M to have a third game or a sequel to remedy this issue before moving on to a different generation, entirely.

I think I agree with your point of Alola Forms and species-exclusive Z-Moves mainly appearing to be exclusive to 1st Gen Pokemon is fanservice as well. There was something in CoroCoro that mentioned something like "Pokemon you met in GO will get special forms in Sun & Moon".

While having a third version would be great to expand this feature, the issue is that Game Freak ditched third versions entirely due to wanting to be unpredictable. This was why we had 7th Gen announced as the next games after OR/AS instead of the Z version everyone was expecting.

 

[Hikamaru]

I don't think we ever had an official statement on this. All I remember is them being unpredictable, which is why we had B2/W2 come after B/W instead of a third version.

 

[Rivvon]

I think that it's a very strong assumption to make that Alola forms are simply fanservice in the guise of a game mechanic. Even as someone who generally looks through things from a cynical lens, we don't know why Kanto Pokemon seem to be this one exception, and what makes them so different that they get Alola forms while Pokemon from other generations don't.

But can you genuinely think of any reason as to why Kanto Pokémon would be the only Pokémon to need to adapt to Alola that ultimately wouldn't sound like just an excuse to try to cover up the fact that it's just fanservice? It really is nonsensical, from a logical point-of-view, for Kanto Pokémon to be the only ones who need to adapt when Kanto and Johto are connected. And like MarinoKadame brought up, gen 1 Pokémon are not only the ones exclusively getting Alola forms, but they're also the ones exclusively getting species-specific Z-Moves. I don't think any in-game reason given by Alolan Professor Oak can cover the fact that these forms are first and foremost gen 1 pandering fanservice.

Could it be fanservice, especially towards those players who have picked up a 3DS for the first time because of Pokemon GO? Perhaps, I'm not outright dismissing the possibility entirely, I'm just personally being very wary myself of what this could mean for games beyond S/M. It's going to feel really really odd if S/M are going to be left as one set of games with about ~15-20 (throwing out a random number, here) Alola forms while future main game series don't really have or incorporate this kind of mechanic, which is the very reason why I'm thinking it's a possibility for S/M to have a third game or a sequel to remedy this issue before moving on to a different generation, entirely.

I really don't think that many people who picked up the gen 1-only Pokémon GO are going to so easily drop a couple hundred dollars for a system nearing the end of its life just for one $40 game... Not to mention the GO craze is dying pretty fast...

As for a third version to SM, is it really that likely for the games which are meant to celebrate the series's 20th anniversary to get a third version with more content to overshadow them in a year or two? Even if the possibility is there, is that what fans would want? Especially after XY didn't get a third version despite drastically needing one, at that. The same logic many people used for why they're glad we never got "Z" would be appropriate: SM should have had all the content possible from the beginning. Them being the anniversary titles makes this even more imperative. Personally, at this point, I would be very unhappy if I were to get Sun or Moon and then a year later Pokémon Supernova is announced and it's just SM but with the Alola forms I wanted to see to begin with (read: non-gen 1).

And I mean, would it really be that odd if SM were the only games to have regional differences? Not that I think they will be--I'm still hoping for DPP remakes with "Sinnoh forms," after all. But I mean, everyone seems really certain that there won't be any more new Mega Evolutions despite only being around for 2 sets of games and the concept itself being more far-reaching than "Alola forms" (there's only one Alola, after all).

 

[Rivvon]

Ehhhh. Fair point here, actually. It's one of my biggest concerns with B/W, after all--the fact that B2W2 should've been what BW was all along and such. It's a possibility I mentioned nonetheless; surely those people who would be unhappy with not seeing their Pokemon have an Alola form this generation would be fine with seeing those Pokemon get a chance at a sequel or third game? Sure, a third game would imply that Sun and Moon are unfinished games (this argument can apply for X and Y also but not interested in getting into that debate, lmao), but I'd rather have a generation that feels as complete as possible features-wise and with a variety of Pokemon, even if it takes a third game or a sequel

Hmm, B2W2 is definitely different in terms of narrative to BW so they definitely need to be separate games, but if you mean the gameplay content, then yeah, BW could definitely have benefitted from the features added in B2W2.

But in regards to SM, since gen 6 was dropped in such a haphazard fashion, I'd honestly rather just leave Alola behind and move onto bigger and better things if they fail to deliver a fair variety of new Pokémon, forms, and the like. Why stick around in Alola longer than we have to if it couldn't give us the regional variations and whatever other things we wanted the first time around? That was a lot of peoples' logic when it came to skipping over a third version to XY and I think it can easily apply here. SM is going to give us access to Zygarde Complete so I'm sure a future, non-Alola game can give us access to new forms of non-gen 1 Pokémon. ...That is, if Game Freak ever decides they're worth their time to make...

What if you wanted to transfer Alola Ninetales to [insert Gen VIII region here] via Pokebank? Would it still be Alola Ninetales? Same logic goes for any other Alola Pokemon, really. It's this kind of stuff that's a real head-scratcher, for me. It's for this reason that I don't think forms in their entirety are going to be ditched. At least with Megas you have an item that allows the Pokemon themselves to Mega Evolve, so it's not really based on region, whereas my concern is what direction Game Freak will go in subsequent generations now that they've introduced region-specific forms. Are Sinnoh forms really going to be a thing? What about [Insert Gen VIII region here]'s forms? Is that going to be a thing too? etc.

It's true that we don't know all the details about Alola forms, but I think you may be overthinking their general complexity here.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon X:

Notice the Pokémon with the kind of grayed-out background? Those originate from gen 7, and can't be transferred backwards into gen 6--so, the usual transfer limitations.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon Sun:

Notice how both a regular ol' Vulpix and Alolan Vulpix can be sent into Sun. I think it's safe to say that this point towards Alola forms being, well, a form difference, which means they can be traded from game to game (and transferred into newer generations), but with limitations on how they are obtained. Even if we never see regional differences outside of Alola, I'm certain we'll be able to transfer and use (and probably even breed) Alola forms in future generations.

As for "Are Sinnoh forms really going to be a thing?" well, you tell me: will we ever get new Mega Evolutions?

 

[Knyte]

Spoiler:

Hmm, B2W2 is definitely different in terms of narrative to BW so they definitely need to be separate games, but if you mean the gameplay content, then yeah, BW could definitely have benefitted from the features added in B2W2.

But in regards to SM, since gen 6 was dropped in such a haphazard fashion, I'd honestly rather just leave Alola behind and move onto bigger and better things if they fail to deliver a fair variety of new Pokémon, forms, and the like. Why stick around in Alola longer than we have to if it couldn't give us the regional variations and whatever other things we wanted the first time around? That was a lot of peoples' logic when it came to skipping over a third version to XY and I think it can easily apply here. SM is going to give us access to Zygarde Complete so I'm sure a future, non-Alola game can give us access to new forms of non-gen 1 Pokémon. ...That is, if Game Freak ever decides they're worth their time to make...


It's true that we don't know all the details about Alola forms, but I think you may be overthinking their general complexity here.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon X:

Notice the Pokémon with the kind of grayed-out background? Those originate from gen 7, and can't be transferred backwards into gen 6--so, the usual transfer limitations.

Here's an official screenshot of a Pokémon Bank account connected to Pokémon Sun:

Notice how both a regular ol' Vulpix and Alolan Vulpix can be sent into Sun. I think it's safe to say that this point towards Alola forms being, well, a form difference, which means they can be traded from game to game (and transferred into newer generations), but with limitations on how they are obtained. Even if we never see regional differences outside of Alola, I'm certain we'll be able to transfer and use (and probably even breed) Alola forms in future generations.

As for "Are Sinnoh forms really going to be a thing?" well, you tell me: will we ever get new Mega Evolutions?

I don't think Alola forms should concern us that much. They were more of as I said, a point of desperation for TPCi/GF to limit the need for newer Pokémon. Reality-wise the game shouldn't be only introducing Alolan Pokemon exclusive to Gen I. But from a game design POV, it's meant to introduce forms and how well they will generally be received. What better way to do that but to a generation well-loved and known to many? It's not fanservice if you look at it one way but as a fan I understand it's tough, (I would know my brother still has hate for anything after Gen II)
I remember these games are directed towards all audiences, both to older players and to newer players. Pokémon Go introduced many new players into the scene and having to suddenly see 650-700+ more Pokémon (should it go that direction) would be sort of..'wow this is making me lazy plus the guys who know these games are intimidating' thus making em more hesitant to get the new games cause they may think it seems exclusive to older players but really TPCi/GF is really just trying to cater to new audiences (almost every generation)
I seriously think that most Pokémon in this region would be Gen I because it's like a new game/remake to the whole Pokémon series. I mean look at the new Animé; it's also so different from the rest of them.
Still I get where you guys are coming from. :)

 

[Rivvon]

I don't think Alola forms should concern us that much. They were more of as I said, a point of desperation for TPCi/GF to limit the need for newer Pokémon. Reality-wise the game shouldn't be only introducing Alolan Pokemon exclusive to Gen I. But from a game design POV, it's meant to introduce forms and how well they will generally be received. What better way to do that but to a generation well-loved and known to many? It's not fanservice if you look at it one way but as a fan I understand it's tough, (I would know my brother still has hate for anything after Gen II)
I remember these games are directed towards all audiences, both to older players and to newer players. Pokémon Go introduced many new players into the scene and having to suddenly see 650-700+ more Pokémon (should it go that direction) would be sort of..'wow this is making me lazy plus the guys who know these games are intimidating' thus making em more hesitant to get the new games cause they may think it seems exclusive to older players but really TPCi/GF is really just trying to cater to new audiences (almost every generation)
I seriously think that most Pokémon in this region would be Gen I because it's like a new game/remake to the whole Pokémon series. I mean look at the new Animé; it's also so different from the rest of them.
Still I get where you guys are coming from. :)

If they were that "desperate" to limit the number of new Pokémon, why didn't they just make more new Megas instead? And I'd honestly argue that the idea of using gen 1-only Alola forms to "test the waters," so to say, of how well-received such form changes are, is a bad idea. Genwunners are the most stubborn, unreasonable, and nostalgia-biased in their opinions. They would surely look upon these forms and think they're somehow "ruining" the original Pokémon. At least if they were of newer Pokémon, which the genwunners wouldn't have cared for in the first place, there would likely be a more realistic (and reasonable) response as to whether they were liked or not. With that in mind, there's no way to get around the fact that limiting Alolan forms to gen 1 Pokémon is just fanservice.

As one of many who is sick of the gen 1 pandering that's been occurring not just during the year in which the entire series should be celebrated, but also three years ago with XY, I wouldn't believe any reason given for why the Alola forms are only of gen 1 Pokémon as a good enough excuse to overlook that it's a major disappointment. Not only can it not reasonably be explained in-game, but it also destroys a lot of creative opportunities (I can imagine a popsicle-like Alolan Vanillite but I cannot fathom why Vanillite would need to change at all in Sinnoh) just for the sake of keeping the spotlight on gen 1 instead of giving opportunities to Pokémon across all generations.

 

[Iceshadow3317]

I don't think the are intentionally reducing the number. Kalos was a test. So they made fewer pokemon, plus the guy designing them had an artist block. Which is hard to overcome.

We know there will at least be 20 more pokemon. That is probably evolutions alone. And having Alolan Forms would come more to confusing people returning people than new pokemon. This is not at all like a remake. They only reason they are doing this is because it is the 20th Ann.

As for Sinnoh Forms, I extremely very seriously doubt that. Even with remakes, I don't understand why they would have Sinnoh Forms. Nothing has changed in Sinnoh, so it would make no since for them to adapt when they are already adapted. The Regional Variants may only be for new Regions in the future.

They aren't focused on getting people back. Game wise, they don't need them. They need to focus on the new players and the current ones. As the ones who are still playing the games before Go, are probably the more loyal fanbase and will likely continue to stick with the games in the future. Besides, Go has already increased sells for the 3DS and Pokemon games by a lot since Go came out.

They have to stop with focusing on Generation 1. The whole series should be celebrated. And I know a large amount of people are getting sick of all the Gen 1 stuff.

 

[Maserati777]

Personally I hope to see a lot more Gen 1 Alolan forms.

 

[Hikamaru]

Personally I hope to see a lot more Gen 1 Alolan forms.

I think we'll be seeing nothing but 1st Gen as far as Alola Form candidates go. It's likely a safe bet at this point that it's 1st Gen Pokemon only.

 

[tokyodrift]

A part of me wishes that it wasn't just limited to Kanto Pokemon, but more so those forgotten Pokemon that no one really cares about. I'd love to see Alolan Stantler.

 

[Maserati777]

I certainly wouldn't mind Alolan forms for other Gen Pokémon, in fact I'd like to see them. But I definitely want a majority of them to be Gen 1 as I'm most familiar with them and this is the next best thing since they won't be getting megas.
It's kind of nice seeing my favorite Pokémon, Ninetales, be remembered after it seemed to be forgotten.


I mean on one hand I would have preferred seeing Alolan forms of Pokémon other then Rattata and Raticate. But then I feel like they are rehashed to death so if they were in the game they needed Alolan forms to be new and fresh. But then I probably would have been fine with them not being in the region at all.

 

[tokyodrift]

I do think it's kind of a gimmick in a way, especially with how big Pokémon GO is at the moment. I get a feeling they're trying to pull in those players into the main series.

 

[Charlie Brown]

I'm not sure how big a factor Pokémon GO would be with Alola Forms. GO was only released in, what, July, and they probably would've finalised all the Alola Forms a while before that I would think. Alola forms definitely does help to reach to fans who have come back from GO, but I don't know if they would've predicted GO's success to be so huge. So I think although now they may be marketing Alola forms more to reach those GO fans, I don't know if that would've been the original plan.

 

[LegendChu]

A part of me wishes that it wasn't just limited to Kanto Pokemon, but more so those forgotten Pokemon that no one really cares about. I'd love to see Alolan Stantler.

I'll have to agree with that. Its likely to be limited to Kanto, but I'd want to see Alolan forms of Wynaut & Wobbuffet, that would be cool {:3}.