Animal Rights Thread!

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We are not talking about killing someone else for their 'shoes'. It is a completely different scenario.

And about that cycle, it is the cycle of life.
Animals kill other animals, should we protest to stop that?

Bottom line, man kind has eaten meat from the early years of life and that will NEVER change.

If you don't see how raising a being, make it suffer, and then kill it to feel his taste for five seconds is wrong... I really don't need to say anything else, do I?
Animals kill other animals. However, as I said, and I strongly think you should read what has been already said, they do it because they need to. We're not. And it is hella bad for us -again, reasons already listed.
Mankind on its early years was vegetarian (and we also ate some insects), check your facts. Also, very recently (about 200 years ago), our comsumption of meat increased 900%. And if you think it'll never change, I can assure you're wrong,
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Yet there aren't any reports that I've heard of that say "not enough grass for cows to graze" or something along those lines.
Fertilizer is also used to help plants grow, yet most people eat vegetables with no care in the world. Most of the carrots that I saw weren't fully cleaned either.
I don't know how to respond to this, but most of the negative fuels that slaughter houses make can be used to power homes.
Hopefully that should do it.
The land problem is not like that, as you know they're stacked like boxes. We actually don't have enough land to grow cereals for the cows.
Makes much more sense to store a carrot as it comes from the earth than boiling or peeling it (as you're supposed to do) to get rid of the fertilizer, that's just obvious.
I read something a while ago about the use of these fluids on energy production, can't seem to find the link. Basically, aside from we knowing it just doesn't happen on reality, as it's way cheaper to dump it anywhere, and enterprises who don't care about causing suffering to animals would never care about the environment, the feedback was still negative and too costly to be effective. Again, as you know it's just a piece of a big cake of damage done by this form of consumption.
 
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I read one part of this thread, that's for sure. So let's put your logic like this in a simple question and explanation.

You say it's okay to eat plants basically because they don't have a face nor feel anything. Okay. So let's put your logic to the test, yeah?

Now let's say animals don't have a face(well there's most of them that don't even have a face already), would you say it's then logical for us to consume them? That's pretty cold of you to say, y'know. Just saying.

Plants do so have feelings. They just don't have a face. Geez, how insecure. :/

Either way, we humans grew with eating things like Wolly Mammoths and stuff over a periods of thousands of years. We have teeth for a reason.

I'm sorry, sounds to me like you read none of the thread. We debated a lot the whole "mankind evolved eating meat" issue and how it affected our teeth and digestive trait.
Also, nowhere did anyone say anything about having or not a face, nor do plants have feelings. As aforementioned, plants can feel things like heat, cold and humidity, but different from us, they don't feel pain or fear.
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Believe and support what ever you want. Sometimes I think groups like PETA think animals are more important than humans. I've got no problems with conservation or protection, just...sometimes they go overboard.

I'm not a vegetarian and never will be. I don't have any qualms about eating meat. However, the corporatization of the food process is worrisome. Nothing wrong with breeding animals for...such a purpose. But to fill 'em up with all kinds of crap to make them bigger, quicker only hurts our bodies in the long run.
 
Believe and support what ever you want. Sometimes I think groups like PETA think animals are more important than humans. I've got no problems with conservation or protection, just...sometimes they go overboard.

I'm not a vegetarian and never will be. I don't have any qualms about eating meat. However, the corporatization of the food process is worrisome. Nothing wrong with breeding animals for...such a purpose. But to fill 'em up with all kinds of crap to make them bigger, quicker only hurts our bodies in the long run.
You have no idea how much I despise PETA, seriously.
As for breeding an animal with the purpose of killing it, let's be honest:
aside from all has been said about the environment, health, waste of land and natural resources, it's still shallow and selfish. Just think about it: you're depriving someone (someone who can feel affection, fear, curiosity,emotional and physical pain...) of his life, just to feel the taste of his flesh for five seconds.
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You have no idea how much I despise PETA, seriously.
As for breeding an animal with the purpose of killing it, let's be honest:
aside from all has been said about the environment, health, waste of land and natural resources, it's still shallow and selfish. Just think about it: you're depriving someone (someone who can feel affection, fear, curiosity,emotional and physical pain...) of his life, just to feel the taste of his flesh for five seconds.
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You are treating humans with the same worth as animals. Unlike almost every other species of animal, humans are aware of their existence.
And sorry that this response took so long, but THIS is the mythbusters episode that I was talking about.
With that said, what makes vegetarians and vegans so much more innocent?
 
You are treating humans with the same worth as animals. Unlike almost every other species of animal, humans are aware of their existence.
And sorry that this response took so long, but THIS is the mythbusters episode that I was talking about.
With that said, what makes vegetarians and vegans so much more innocent?

Well, animals are generally aware, just not always self-aware. It sounds like you're saying they're just unconscious.
Plants normally respond to stimuli, whether it's a slap or being subject to a lit area. They lack the nervous system and brain necessary to feel the pain that we feel, which is why I don't feel so guilty about eating plants.
 


You are treating humans with the same worth as animals. Unlike almost every other species of animal, humans are aware of their existence.
And sorry that this response took so long, but THIS is the mythbusters episode that I was talking about.
With that said, what makes vegetarians and vegans so much more innocent?

Luck, I'm not treating humans with the same worth as animals, I just consider that animals are also to be respected, I hope I have stated my reasons clearly.
So, for the mythbusters episode (assuming they could be considered a solid scientific source, but don't get me wrong, I'm a fan too! :D):
The test was made with a polygraph. Polygraphs aren't connected to brain or nerves, they measure electromagnetic changes in the cells. All living things have electromagnetic fields.
Through evolution (and I expect you to get this straight, cause I've had tons of morons misinterpreting this as HEY MISTAH TOMATO, BEFRIEND ME ON FEISSBOOK! kinda lame argument) all living things adapt to survive. Plants are no different, they're living things, they can realise what's happening around them, and this sends EM stimuli through their cells (some of them secrete smells, some secrete fluids... they have developed different ways of defending themselves). However, the thing is plants don't have the devices of pain and suffering, as it is logical! Why would they develop pain and suffering when they can't move?! Forget herbivores, plant would die of deep anguish.
On the show they state plant even react more depending on the stimuli. Well, no doubt the changes on the EM field are bigger with a fire extinguisher or a chainsaw than with just a little slap.
We also have their DNA freezed. If someday they grow legs and start feeling pain and emotions, we can still grow our today's plant ;) (would also be fun, wouldn't it? -Hey, can I have a guava, pretty please? I promise I'll poop on the bushes.)
 
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Anything based on "god said so" tends to be bs. Yet just another opinion from someone who thinks it's all right to harm others. You've been reported for spamming.
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If you think there's a god, keep your religious views to yourself. This is an objective discussion, and your message was really stupid annoying and pointless. You're again reported for spamming.
 
my view is based on my religion and I did nothing wrong just because you disagree with me dosent mean you should yell at me for spamming your just a noob with 65 post I have over 800 post and never got an infraction so you are the spammer not me
Oh, yeah, really! You make so much more sense than me, you obviously have way more posts! (I wish children could understand sarcasm).
As said, if your views aren't objective (as being based on religion) this is not the place for them, as I stated on the very first message of this thread.
You're being reported again. I hope it's for the last time.
 
oh so threads weren't made for discussion they were made for every one to hold hands and agrea, chill out , just because I disagree docent mean you have to attach me
This thread is meant for everyone to feel free to express their views and experiences (of course, behave!;)) on anything concerning the issue, such as the use of animals as entertainment, food, clothing, drugtesting, nutrition info and whatsoever.
If we were to take an argument based on the existence of god into account, we'd have to agree it exists. The fact is, not everyone agrees there's a god, nor is it regarded as a legitimate scientific fact. Thus, I'm afraid it's not valid to raise such a statement as "god says ya gotta bathe yaself on blood".
For that matter, if you're to take the Christian Bible for real, you're also gonna have to support human slavery and misogyny.
 
Now you're being rude. If your opinion is not logic, keep it to yourself, or share it with people in your community our church. This is an objective debate.
And well, you can't call me little man if I didn't give you the liberty to. I don't know you, and you probably didn't know 'til now I'm 6,1'. Also, you're the one who's got to chill, stop spamming and learn some manners.
You're again (oh, big news) reported.


Knock it off, you two. This is not a thread to debate religion in.
Thanks man, that's just my point.
 
I suggest you really read the thread before posting.

I suggest reading my reply thoroughly before attempting a fail troll, kay? :D

And plants do have feelings. So you think that, just because they don't have a face to show any expression, that it's totally okay to abuse them? That's pretty funny for an animal activist to say, because you're harming the life of another living being.

Now what are you going to say? Plants dont have lives because all they do is sit on the ground and sprout leaves and grow fruits?
We did answer to this already, and I can't blame you if you didn't see these posts, as a cluster of unproductive, flame-ish spam took place immediately after.

Here was my response:
Quote:
Luck: You are treating humans with the same worth as animals. Unlike almost every other species of animal, humans are aware of their existence.
And sorry that this response took so long, but THIS is the mythbusters episode that I was talking about.
With that said, what makes vegetarians and vegans so much more innocent?
Well, animals are generally aware, just not always self-aware. It sounds like you're saying they're just unconscious.
Plants normally respond to stimuli, whether it's a slap or being subject to a lit area. They lack the nervous system and brain necessary to feel the pain that we feel, which is why I don't feel so guilty about eating plants.
and jupotatoe's response:
Luck, I'm not treating humans with the same worth as animals, I just consider that animals are also to be respected, I hope I have stated my reasons clearly.
So, for the mythbusters episode (assuming they could be considered a solid scientific source, but don't get me wrong, I'm a fan too! :D):
The test was made with a polygraph. Polygraphs aren't connected to brain or nerves, they measure electromagnetic changes in the cells. All living things have electromagnetic fields.
Through evolution (and I expect you to get this straight, cause I've had tons of morons misinterpreting this as HEY MISTAH TOMATO, BEFRIEND ME ON FEISSBOOK! kinda lame argument) all living things adapt to survive. Plants are no different, they're living things, they can realise what's happening around them, and this sends EM stimuli through their cells (some of them secrete smells, some secrete fluids... they have developed different ways of defending themselves). However, the thing is plants don't have the devices of pain and suffering, as it is logical! Why would they develop pain and suffering when they can't move?! Forget herbivores, plant would die of deep anguish.
On the show they state plant even react more depending on the stimuli. Well, no doubt the changes on the EM field are bigger with a fire extinguisher or a chainsaw than with just a little slap.
We also have their DNA freezed. If someday they grow legs and start feeling pain and emotions, we can still grow our today's plant ;) (would also be fun, wouldn't it? -Hey, can I have a guava, pretty please? I promise I'll poop on the bushes.)


Yeah, some activist you are. Before you go off on someone else's case, I suggest taking a second look at yourself. It helps.
We're all trying to be gentle here, I don't think jupotatoes meant to be too condescending. Even if he did, there's no reason to pour gasoline into the fire.


You have the right to believe that plants are emotional, but I have yet to see a reputable study that proves this. If it were proven that plants can feel like we do, I suppose I'd resort to eating fruits, nuts, and seeds that have fallen naturally from a plant.
 
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Wow, this was a long read. I just have to add my two cents. There were too many posts to get all the quotes, (sorry) so I tried to represent the ideas here fairly.

Argument #1: Humans have been eating meat for a long time so there's nothing wrong with eating meat now.
Humans have been doing a lot of things for a long time, like killing, writing poetry, worshiping ancient gods, exploring, enslaving and having children. Things are good or bad because of what they are, not how long people have been doing them.

Argument #2: It's natural to eat meat.
"Natural" is a loose term based more on a person's feelings than facts and gets applied to almost everything. Usually people use it to mean "it should be done" or "it shouldn't be interfered with," but that alone isn't a good enough argument. If you mean "we evolved to eat meat so we should" then say so and we'll discuss biological determinism. If you mean "meat is god-given" then we'll discuss theology (but not in this thread).

Argument #3: Animals eat other animals. Humans should be able to also.
From an ethical/moral standpoint I'd say animals don't know any better. They only have instincts. Humans have thoughts, morals and ethics. Humans have the capacity to know better.

Argument #4: Humans need to eat meat to survive/stay healthy, particularly people who live where farming isn't possible.
People in developed countries have access to all kinds of foods and nutritional information to know that they can stay healthy and provide themselves with all the protein, vitamin and whatnot from non-animal food sources. If you are one of those guys in Africa then go ahead and eat your meat since you probably can't grow soybeans.

Argument #5: It's my life and my choice.
Your choice to eat meat affects other people. For instance: for every cow that's bred for meat an exponential number of people could be fed on plant foods (grains, fruits, vegetables) with the same resources (land, water, etc.) used to raise that cow. There's also the issue of "cow farts" (methane gas) released into the atmosphere and compounding the problem of global warming.

Also, I didn't see any response to this (unless I missed it; correct me if I'm wrong).
Every species is parasitic. Water can be cleaned, and grass can grow back. We are using renewable resources.
Thankfully, most people are not anything like Americans.
Renewable resources can still be exhausted if they are not given time to renew.

Cleaning water is expensive and not everyone in the world has the means do it. Some water is too polluted for our technology to clean or our technology takes an inordinate amount of time to clean it.

Grass will not grow back (or will grow back at a very slow rate) if its environment is damaged too greatly or was nutrient-poor to begin with. Overgrazing, drought (often a man-made side effect of overgrazing which renders soil exposed to the sun where it previously had plants covering it), erosion (a side effect of overgrazing and drought which leaks nutrients from the soil), pollution or salinization of soil all impede healthy plant growth.

More and more people are aspiring to become like Americans. China (home to over one billion people) is rapidly growing closer to First World levels or per capita resource use. That's just bad news for everyone because it means competition for dwindling resources.

So, raising animals for food is damaging to the environment and damage to the environment is damage to humans.

/soapbox
 
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