Are Humans Animals?

[Exodrake]

So you're in full agreement that saving critically endangered animals caused by human activity is a waste, because they failed to adapt to our changes, and we could easily replace them with ourselves to maintain the ecosystem, much like how new species replace older species in the past?

Yes, there is no need to be a bleeding heart and try to save species that just aren't adaptable enough to survive environmental pressures. The ecosystem isn't going to collapse. Something else will fill the niche they leave behind. This always has happened, and always will. Compared to mass extinctions in geologic history, our modifications of the environment to suit our needs is tame.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Yes, there is no need to be a bleeding heart and try to save species that just aren't adaptable enough to survive environmental pressures. The ecosystem isn't going to collapse. Something else will fill the niche they leave behind. This always has happened, and always will. Compared to mass extinctions in geologic history, our modifications of the environment to suit our needs is tame.

Then tell me, what is your stance on the fact that once bees go extinct, the entire ecosystem falls and us humans will starve to death because our crops entirely depend on bees? Do you think humans will be enough to replace the bees' niche in pollinating crops and making honey?

 

[Exodrake]

Every time extinction messes up the ecosystem, it opens up niches for other organisms to fulfill. Whether it harms us or not is irrelevant. Life on the whole will adapt and balance itself out. Bee pollinated plants will likely be replaced by wind pollinated ones if another animal does not replace bees.

You are greatly overestimating how important bees are to agriculture. Our most essential food crops do not require bees at all. What we will lose are unimportant exotic fruits, and that's just about it because most other bee-pollinated plants are also pollinated by other insects who would become more populous in the absence of bees. Bees are actually very terrible pollinators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crop_plants_pollinated_by_bees

Somehow I don't see humanity dying out because we lose some exotic plants and honey.

 

[Nah]

Are we really that dependent on bees for agriculture though?

Incorrect. Human beings are leaving an impact the planet has NEVER experienced and we are completely throwing the ecosystem out of whack.

While one species causing the extinction of others is something that has never happened before in Earth's history, the scale is nothing compared to the ones in geologic history. Permian extinction legit wiped out at least 80% of all species at the time, and no humans were around then.

Not that I'm saying that humans should or should not try to save species negatively impacted by our activities; I have no opinion on that really.

 

[Exodrake]

Are we really that dependent on bees for agriculture though?


While one species causing the extinction of others is something that has never happened before in Earth's history, the scale is nothing compared to the ones in geologic history. Permian extinction legit wiped out at least 80% of all species at the time, and no humans were around then.

Not that I'm saying that humans should or should not try to save species negatively impacted by our activities; I have no opinion on that really.

Absolutely not, I just linked a list of plants pollinated by bees, debunking the erroneous "we would starve to death without bees because they pollinate EVERYTHING" argument. We would be fine without bees, although we'd probably miss some tasty exotic fruits and honey, RIP

Nothing we do will ever cause as much devastation as the Permian extinction, that I am confident in. We have become self-conscious enough of our destructive habits to try controlling them, so there's no way losing some species as a side effect of our existence will cause all life to just fail. If life can rebound from the Permian extinction, it can rebound from whatever we do.

Species causing the extinction of others has most likely occurred before. Anomalocaris was such an efficient predator in its time it likely caused many species to go extinct, for example.

 

[Midnight shadow]

Are we really that dependent on bees for agriculture though?


While one species causing the extinction of others is something that has never happened before in Earth's history, the scale is nothing compared to the ones in geologic history. Permian extinction legit wiped out at least 80% of all species at the time, and no humans were around then.

Not that I'm saying that humans should or should not try to save species negatively impacted by our activities; I have no opinion on that really.

I'm fairly sure there are examples of other animals growing so populous that they wipe out another species, if not on a global scale then certainly in a specific area. I've already mentioned the Lion Fish that have grown so numerous that they are taking up too much space for other organisms to live, but there is another culprit that is even worse: the crown of thorns starfish.

For those who don't know, the crown of thorns starfish feeds on coral reefs, but unlike other sea creatures that live in the coral, the starfish effectively sucks the nutrients out of the coral, causing it to die. As a result the habitats of many sea creatures are destroyed by this starfish, and if there are enough of them, they can essily wipe out an entire ecosystem. And to add to this, the starfish (like humans) have very fee natural predators, and most will only go after then as a last resort when there is no other food option.

 

[Elysieum]

Of course we are animals. Humans are mammalian.

One thing that can cloud this is the fact that, in a way, we are the paragon of animals. That is to say, so far ahead (or removed, depends how you view it) from the rest of family of earthly creatures in terms of intelligence that many people see a definitive separation between humans and the other animals we share this planet with. Since we have learned to command so many other animals, people seem to think we are of a higher order naturally, which is untrue.

Unfortunately I have found religion plays a pernicious part in this as well. I remember having a conversation rather like this with my deceased godmother. She had devote faith and was convinced that humans were created first, and all other animals came after for the direct purpose of our pleasure and survival. She told me that the reason why sheep, cattle and chickens are so easily farmed, herded and controlled is because they were designed to be so for our benefit.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I'm fairly sure there are examples of other animals growing so populous that they wipe out another species, if not on a global scale then certainly in a specific area. I've already mentioned the Lion Fish that have grown so numerous that they are taking up too much space for other organisms to live, but there is another culprit that is even worse: the crown of thorns starfish.

For those who don't know, the crown of thorns starfish feeds on coral reefs, but unlike other sea creatures that live in the coral, the starfish effectively sucks the nutrients out of the coral, causing it to die. As a result the habitats of many sea creatures are destroyed by this starfish, and if there are enough of them, they can essily wipe out an entire ecosystem. And to add to this, the starfish (like humans) have very fee natural predators, and most will only go after then as a last resort when there is no other food option.

But weren't humans at fault for Lion Fish population booming in the Atlantic Ocean, because they dumped them into oceans they're not native to and not because they migrated to their own accord unlike humans and other native animals?

 

[RegalSin]

More of this gentile talk.

God left behind the apes, bears, dolphins in order to test us. A parrot might be smart as a four year old but they are not as smart as you or me.

Humans are the only beings that is able to manipulate nature at will. We could create all kinds of animals that never existed to even animals that was only in fairy tales. We could make people who are smaller then dolls. We could make people larger then buildings. We could make people with wings and people with phins. Maybe the Universe is some sorta of experiment left running.

The flat fact is that we are not animals. Animals have a vicious amount of instincts while humans do not. Instincts are programmed knowledge from birth. This is why animals behave the way they do.

While it has been shown that animals ( like birds and cats ) have higher up functions that indicates intelligence. Including bears, chickens, dogs, horses, spiders, roaches and so forth.

Only way to prove that humans are animals is by removing all contacts from human babies and raising them inside a closed environment without any interaction. While a baby is able to cling on to your fingers for it's own safety or even swim. How long before that baby falls off a cliff. You would need to generate an entirely new language from the baby speak and baby emotions and raise that kid without any interaction or anything that gives it higher function.

That would be wrong

 

[gimmepie]

Humans are the only beings that is able to manipulate nature at will. We could create all kinds of animals that never existed to even animals that was only in fairy tales. We could make people who are smaller then dolls. We could make people larger then buildings. We could make people with wings and people with phins. Maybe the Universe is some sorta of experiment left running.

The flat fact is that we are not animals. Animals have a vicious amount of instincts while humans do not. Instincts are programmed knowledge from birth. This is why animals behave the way they do.

Humans aren't the only animals capable of manipulating nature at will. As of now, we're the only ones who can manipulate our environment to this extent, but the ability to change things and build is not unique to us. Ants and termites build enormous structures, other ants farm aphids, spiders create webs, some whale species create nets of bubbles to trap fish and force them in certain directions, numerous animals build nests or burrows, octopi pretend to be other animals and can open jars and chimpanzees have been recorded using rocks and sticks as tools or weapons.

Everything we do as humans is because of instinct. Our fears, sexual desires, greed and desire to succeed. All of these things are behavioural adaptions we evolved in order to ensure our species ability to survive. The way we manipulate nature is also something we evolved in this manner. The only differences between us and the animals I listed are the scale and our capacity for cognitive functions.

We started out with not much more than a chimp or octopus, we evolved greater ability to change the world because of our instincts - many of which are throwbacks to our early ancestors. Considering all this, there's not much reason to assume that should humans die out other species couldn't evolve to fulfil a similar environmental niche as we do.

While it has been shown that animals ( like birds and cats ) have higher up functions that indicates intelligence. Including bears, chickens, dogs, horses, spiders, roaches and so forth.

Actually most of the animals you listed here are pretty stupid. Especially spiders and roaches, their brains are nowhere near big enough to facilitate anything resembling intelligent thought, they run purely on instinct.

Only way to prove that humans are animals is by removing all contacts from human babies and raising them inside a closed environment without any interaction. While a baby is able to cling on to your fingers for it's own safety or even swim. How long before that baby falls off a cliff. You would need to generate an entirely new language from the baby speak and baby emotions and raise that kid without any interaction or anything that gives it higher function.

That would be wrong

Being intelligent does not make us less of an animal. It makes us a very successful and adaptable animal. A salmon is no more of an animal than a chimp just because chimps are smarter. A chimp is no more of an animal because we're smarter. We've just evolved a higher capacity for cognitive thought.

Humans are primates of the mammal family like many other species, several of which actually share the majority of our genetic makeup.

 

[Xertified]

Humans are indeed animals. Although, most of us are born because of our "Human" Parents, some must have been born by animals.

You know Whitney Winsconstins (IDK if that is the real spelling)? Yeah, that girl literally fucks dogs.

If Whitney actually become pregnant, what will be the infant be?

You know what guys. I will leave this conversation to you guys.

 

[Electricbluewolf]

If Whitney actually become pregnant, what will be the infant be?

Thank every genus that won't happen!

Biologically we are made up of every other thing mammals are made up from. We are animals, and whilst intelligence does not dedicate whether you're more or less of an "animal", our level of thought means we have excluded ourselves from looking at a chimp or lion or penguin or whatever and think "I'm not like that" when in truth everything we do is based on animal instinct, and whether we like it or not our survival is based on that. Just because we live in a modern age does not mean our bodies/minds do

 

[Midnight shadow]

Humans are indeed animals. Although, most of us are born because of our "Human" Parents, some must have been born by animals.

You know Whitney Winsconstins (IDK if that is the real spelling)? Yeah, that girl literally f*cks dogs.

If Whitney actually become pregnant, what will be the infant be?

You know what guys. I will leave this conversation to you guys.

Fortunately for us the lock and key effect makes interspecies reproduction impossible. In short, fertilisation of an egg can only occur when both sets of molecles match up.

 

[RegalSin]

Humans aren't the only animals capable of manipulating nature at will.

But can these animals do it without using nature. A human being is the only one capable ( and stupid enough ) to mine for materials in outer space. The human could also take a stick of dynamite and blow up the fish ( causing them to die and float ) and then eat them. A human is able to generate germs and microbes to remove another species or it's own via selfish means. A human can ignore other animals ( like how China ignore the Yellow river Dolphin ) and practically build junk over it. A human is being able to ignore all survival functions for any purpose it wants to have. Bottom line humans do this all the time while your examples are limited to stuff occurring in nature. Humans are even able to live side by side with animals as well.

Everything we do as humans is because of instinct.

Wrong humans did not evolve. We were created. Think of it like this. It could take eons and mulitverses in order for something to grow. It is like a seedling from a plant. It must be the right time and the right kind of environment. We could assume the seed is able to grow but an environment must be presented first.

You can't just wake up one day and say "we all evolved from something else". Truth is that we might have evolved but somebody created the process in a similar fashion. Take Space itself. Miles upon miles of nothingness is said to be shaped like a donut or balloon inverting itself. This is why the known universe looks like it is expanding, because it is merely spinning. For all we know is that we are really part of a cel of organs of another creature and this creature is insignificant to our knowing. Maybe our body is a universe moving in different speeds.

Actually most of the animals you listed here are pretty stupid. Especially spiders and roaches, their brains are nowhere near big enough to facilitate anything resembling intelligent thought, they run purely on instinct.

Again I said higher functions. Which means when the creature itself starts to exhibit behavior that is not normal. In my opinion your not really educated about animals or zoology enough to make conclusions like that. The size of an animal does not hinder it's ability or brain power.

Being intelligent does not make us less of an animal. It makes us a very successful and adaptable animal. A salmon is no more of an animal than a chimp just because chimps are smarter. A chimp is no more of an animal because we're smarter. We've just evolved a higher capacity for cognitive thought.

I said take away any other influences and see how long that person will last. We never evolved from chimps at all. We are just similar. Primates are not humans. Primates is the classification in terms of zoology. A baby primate might be reasonable but when it grows it goes back to being a wild animal.

Humans are primates of the mammal family like many other species, several of which actually share the majority of our genetic makeup.

You wish. Humans are not in anyway animals.They just are really close to us because it is a way for us to be tested. That is all. Your imagination is really vivid to think that humans are related to primates in the wild. That is just science messing with your head. Seriously when you start feeling the burn of life you will not care about this monkey business.

 

[gimmepie]

But can these animals do it without using nature. A human being is the only one capable ( and stupid enough ) to mine for materials in outer space. The human could also take a stick of dynamite and blow up the fish ( causing them to die and float ) and then eat them. A human is able to generate germs and microbes to remove another species or it's own via selfish means. A human can ignore other animals ( like how China ignore the Yellow river Dolphin ) and practically build junk over it. A human is being able to ignore all survival functions for any purpose it wants to have. Bottom line humans do this all the time while your examples are limited to stuff occurring in nature. Humans are even able to live side by side with animals as well.

This doesn't make us seperate from animals/nature. It makes us extremely intelligent animals who have developed to a point that we can manipulate almost any aspect of nature to suit our means. Being able to alter the landscape more than other animals doesn't make us any less of an animal.

Wrong humans did not evolve. We were created.

Wow, I guess all that scientific proof to the contrary must be wrong then. Let's see your evidence?

Think of it like this. It could take eons and mulitverses in order for something to grow. It is like a seedling from a plant. It must be the right time and the right kind of environment. We could assume the seed is able to grow but an environment must be presented first.

You just described evolution, make up your mind.

You can't just wake up one day and say "we all evolved from something else". Truth is that we might have evolved but somebody created the process in a similar fashion. Take Space itself. Miles upon miles of nothingness is said to be shaped like a donut or balloon inverting itself. This is why the known universe looks like it is expanding, because it is merely spinning. For all we know is that we are really part of a cel of organs of another creature and this creature is insignificant to our knowing. Maybe our body is a universe moving in different speeds.

The known universe looks like it's expanding because it's expanding, and the rate of expansion is actually increasing. Anyway, I honestly cannot say much more to this section because it's gibberish. You're using an analogy that makes no sense at all to the context of this debate.

Again I said higher functions. Which means when the creature itself starts to exhibit behavior that is not normal. In my opinion your not really educated about animals or zoology enough to make conclusions like that. The size of an animal does not hinder it's ability or brain power.

You have exactly no idea what I have or haven't studied, so don't assume that I'm not educated on the subject. The size of an animal does indeed affect the animal's potential for complex cognitive thought such a problem solving. Here's just a few links that demonstrate my point:

1. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160125155732.htm
2. https://phys.org/news/2016-01-animals-larger-brains-problem-solvers.html
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_cognition
4. https://www.pnas.org/content/113/9/2532.abstract

SETI have also determined that intelligent life is likely to fall within a certain size range by following principals such as this one. Insects and the like are simply too small to house a brain that can sufficiently handle higher cognitive functions.

You use very vague terms such as "higher functions" and "not normal". I think perhaps you would do well to expand on those points because in actual scientific terms there are a fair few animals that are capable of much higher cognitive functions than others, it just so happens that humans are the most advanced species on our planet at the current time.

I said take away any other influences and see how long that person will last. We never evolved from chimps at all. We are just similar. Primates are not humans. Primates is the classification in terms of zoology. A baby primate might be reasonable but when it grows it goes back to being a wild animal.

Other influences like what? If a child was raised in the wild without being influenced by education or technology, they would learn to survive in that environment. Our species and its ancestors did that for years upon years before we had classrooms and televisions. If you mean to say without a family structure and just leave a baby lying around in the Amazon, then yes it would die. So would the young of the majority of other primate species and species of several other groups too, because like a lot of animals we need to learn skills from a family group to survive and need older animals to care for and defend us until we are able to do so ourselves.

No, we didn't evolve from chimps. But we do share a common ancestor if you go far enough down the evolutionary tree. We're similar because we both evolved from said ancestor, placing us in different branches of the primate family.

You wish. Humans are not in anyway animals.They just are really close to us because it is a way for us to be tested. That is all. Your imagination is really vivid to think that humans are related to primates in the wild. That is just science messing with your head. Seriously when you start feeling the burn of life you will not care about this monkey business.

I don't need to wish, humans are scientifically classified as being a part of the Animalia kingdom. Science isn't messing with my head. Science is simply logic, deduction and facts. As opposed to the wild ramblings of a person with no evidence or logic arguments to speak of. Honestly, it is such arrogance on the part of some people to think that we are somehow not a part of nature anymore just because we're at the top of the food chain. As for "feeling the burn of life" I have no idea what that's supposed to mean but it looks like you're making baseless assumptions about my knowledge or experiences again - not a great method of debating.

<--- Just in case you needed further proof.

 

[Midnight shadow]

You wish. Humans are not in anyway animals.They just are really close to us because it is a way for us to be tested. That is all. Your imagination is really vivid to think that humans are related to primates in the wild. That is just science messing with your head. Seriously when you start feeling the burn of life you will not care about this monkey business.

If Humans are not animals as you claim, then what are we classified as in terms of science?

 

[RegalSin]

We are god like beings and that is that. We are god like. We can morph nature, heavan, and earth if we wanted to. That is the power of Humans. We are god but we are not god. You want to bash religion. Just remember that Romans used Christianity to control people and it worked in maintaining order. They called it Catholicism.

I am done with this coversation. It is not making anybody anybody money at all.

 

[Nah]

Why is everything suddenly about making money with you?

Some of your statements don't make sense. How can humanity be god but not be god at the same time? How are we god-like beings? We're in a debate forum so, y'know, you're kind of expected to substantiate your claims with more than "and that is that".....