Bad graphics? Bad construction? Bad game?

[Pogiforce-14]

Acrof, if you're going to be stating your opinion, do please be sure to put an "I think" in front of it. that way we can't assume you're posing your opinions as fact, because then you'd be lying by saying the graphics aren't updated.

 

[от_Ian]

Curious no?
Sometimes I think that something went wrong for Sega, 3DO, etc, because they made amazing games and systems, but they ended in a massive failure, most of the times because of stupid details (like GameGear´s high battery consuption, or 3DO F1 system being more expensive than a PS3 back that time)
And now 3DO don´t exist anymore, Sega only produce software, etc.......

The SNES was released in 1991, while the Sega Genesis was released in 1989.
The Genesis competed with the NES. Sure that was when the 16 bit era started, but they were competing consoles.
Nintendo never competed in the 32 bit era. Sony competed in the 64 bit era with a 32 bit system. Nintendo and Sony were going to compete in the 32 bit era together, until they had a falling out.

The Nintendo 64 was released in 1996 while the playstation 1 was released in 1995.

Wikipedia:
Cartridges store significantly less data than CDs. As fifth generation games became more complex in content, sound, and graphics, it pushed cartridges to the limits of their storage capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64

Plus, I challenge you to compare Final Fantasy 9 Graphics with The Legend Of Zelda, Ocarina Of Time graphics, and you tell me which one looks more detailed.

Being able to store more data on a CD meant that you could make more beautifully detailed games.

 

[SBaby]

Plus, I challenge you to compare Final Fantasy 9 Graphics with The Legend Of Zelda, Ocarina Of Time graphics, and you tell me which one looks more detailed.

Just FFVII graphics are superior to Ocarina. Why FFIX? FFIX would be better compared to Majora's mask, which was graphically superior to Ocarina. What's funny is that both FF games use more 2-D than 3-D in their games and they're STILL superior.

 

[Pogiforce-14]

Not Superior to OoT, I'm hoping you aren't suggesting that. Because OoT in spite of graphical short comings was THE best game of it's era.

 

[Ichida]

In terms of graphics, OoT seems superior. In terms of storyline, FFIX pwns everything, IMO. FFIX is my all-time favorite RPG. :D

 

[SBaby]

Not Superior to OoT, I'm hoping you aren't suggesting that. Because OoT in spite of graphical short comings was THE best game of it's era.

No, I'm just talking in terms of visuals. Don't get me wrong, the story in FFVII was still --- (it's basically a bootleg Sonic SatAM plot until you're just left going after one single guy who's really hard to subdue, seriously that's it). If it weren't for Sephiroth being a long haired prettyboy with a sword that's half the size of a football field and pretty eye candy, nobody would have EVER cared about it long enough to still go on about it today. Let's put it this way, imagine if FFVII was a SNES game and FFVIII was the first Playstation Final Fantasy with CG cutscenes. That should give you the perspective I'm thinking of. It may look cheesy nowadays when compared with Tidus going against a Godzilla knockoff, or a Princess and a pauper re-enacting the plot of Robin Hood. But you've gotta think of the times and what we knew back then. Eye candy and big swords was cutting edge stuff.

If you're talking REAL storyline, as in big-time, Major League stories, it'd be FFVI hands down. No, more like Xenosaga (or for you Squeenix buffs, Xenogears). Xenosaga easily has the greatest RPG story ever told.

Zelda OoT's story was alright, but I hate to say that it's just the same recycled plot from the previous games buried in a sea of impressive visuals, mind-numbing puzzles, and a one-man coup (gee, the Hyrule military really needs to train a bit more if they can't even stop one single wizard). The only reason people still play Zelda anymore is because they grew up with it and it doesn't attempt to fix a concept that isn't broken to begin with. But don't even say it's got a better storyline than Xenosaga, or Albedo will come and dismember himself in front of you.


Back on Battle Revolution. Here's the deal. I don't like giving scores for games (and my scores on Gamefaqs are ALWAYS to be disregarded). But this is what it has. So read it and then decide for yourself.

The game isn't ALL downhill. The graphics are alright (next-gen graphics will make it look better than any Pokemon game has ever looked before), though I would've liked to be able to see more of both you and the target during an attack (the camera angles in the game are just ---). This is really just a nitpick, but that's how I am.

The customization will be fun for people that like that kind of stuff. Personally I don't, but as I said before, I wouldn't take away from a game that has outfits and hats as extras. It's not even part of the main game anyway, so...

The voices aren't anything too spectacular. You've got the static voices from the game and stock announcer voice overs that sound suspiciously like the N64 Pokemon announcer. My gripe is, why couldn't they have just used the Anime voices?

On an unrelated note, someone had mentioned 'respecting Pokemon's roots' as a reaponse to me pointing this out. That just made me laugh. Because Pokemon in fact DOESN'T respect their roots. They only respect whatever's gonna keep money coming in. Why do you think the handheld games are all almost exactly the same? If the Pokemon franchise had ANY respect for its roots, Misty would have NEVER LEFT THE ANIME! Nuff said.

No story. Well, I don't care WHO says it's a tired subject, the fact that so many people (ie on this topic) are arguing about storylines HAS TO PROVE that gamers look for story in a game. So yeah... Whoopsie.

That's about it. Die-hard Pokemon fans (you know who you are) will want it just to see the D/P Pokemon on the big screen (don't get me wrong, it looks nice). People (in general) with D/P might be curious about it, but I strongly suggest RENTING it first. The fact that it's 50 bucks means it's quite an investment for a game you might play for a couple days before realizing that without online battles, there's really nothing to do.

People without D/P are going to find out that there isn't really that much to keep your interest past a few hours. There are pre-made opponents to fight (battle, nah it's fighting, who am I kidding), but without a story or an adventure mode where you can build your levels, without D/P you're pretty much stuck with templates. In other words, SOL.

Despite it all, and based on what I've seen and heard in the past few months, I can still say that Pokemon is a franchise that is still going strong and will keep going for years to come.

So this'll become my unofficial review, I guess (or rough draft, if you will).

 

[Angelix]

Well, I can really only say one thing about PKMN: BR - I don't have it yet :3
But on a more serious note, is this game really worth getting? I mean, people complain about spending $50 on a game - a decent Wii game in Australia costs $110. So I don't want to waste any money.

And about the issue where the Pokeball 'disapears' - so what? In Zelda games, Link carries around an unbelievably huge arsenal of weapons, and yet he has no space to store them. He pulls a bow from nowhere. And we're talking Twilight Princess here.

My point is that it doesn't really matter if the game has slight downsides like that.

 

[Pogiforce-14]

No, I'm just talking in terms of visuals. Don't get me wrong, the story in FFVII was still --- (it's basically a bootleg Sonic SatAM plot until you're just left going after one single guy who's really hard to subdue, seriously that's it). If it weren't for Sephiroth being a long haired prettyboy with a sword that's half the size of a football field and pretty eye candy, nobody would have EVER cared about it long enough to still go on about it today. Let's put it this way, imagine if FFVII was a SNES game and FFVIII was the first Playstation Final Fantasy with CG cutscenes. That should give you the perspective I'm thinking of. It may look cheesy nowadays when compared with Tidus going against a Godzilla knockoff, or a Princess and a pauper re-enacting the plot of Robin Hood. But you've gotta think of the times and what we knew back then. Eye candy and big swords was cutting edge stuff.

If you're talking REAL storyline, as in big-time, Major League stories, it'd be FFVI hands down. No, more like Xenosaga (or for you Squeenix buffs, Xenogears). Xenosaga easily has the greatest RPG story ever told.

Zelda OoT's story was alright, but I hate to say that it's just the same recycled plot from the previous games buried in a sea of impressive visuals, mind-numbing puzzles, and a one-man coup (gee, the Hyrule military really needs to train a bit more if they can't even stop one single wizard. The only reason people still play Zelda anymore is because they grew up with it and it doesn't attempt to fix a concept that isn't broken to begin with. But don't even say it's got a better storyline than Xenosaga, or Albedo will come and dismember himself in front of you.


Back on Battle Revolution. Here's the deal. I don't like giving scores for games (and my scores on Gamefaqs are ALWAYS to be disregarded). But this is what it has. So read it and then decide for yourself.

The game isn't ALL downhill. The graphics are alright (next-gen graphics will make it look better than any Pokemon game has ever looked before), though I would've liked to be able to see more of both you and the target during an attack (the camera angles in the game are just ---). This is really just a nitpick, but that's how I am.

The customization will be fun for people that like that kind of stuff. Personally I don't, but as I said before, I wouldn't take away from a game that has outfits and hats as extras. It's not even part of the main game anyway, so...

The voices aren't anything too spectacular. You've got the static voices from the game and stock announcer voice overs that sound suspiciously like the N64 Pokemon announcer. My gripe is, why couldn't they have just used the Anime voices?

On an unrelated note, someone had mentioned 'respecting Pokemon's roots' as a reaponse to me pointing this out. That just made me laugh. Because Pokemon in fact DOESN'T respect their roots. They only respect whatever's gonna keep money coming in. Why do you think the handheld games are all almost exactly the same? If the Pokemon franchise had ANY respect for its roots, Misty would have NEVER LEFT THE ANIME! Nuff said.

No story. Well, I don't care WHO says it's a tired subject, the fact that so many people (ie on this topic) are arguing about storylines HAS TO PROVE that gamers look for story in a game. So yeah... Whoopsie.

That's about it. Die-hard Pokemon fans (you know who you are) will want it just to see the D/P Pokemon on the big screen (don't get me wrong, it looks nice). People (in general) with D/P might be curious about it, but I strongly suggest RENTING it first. The fact that it's 50 bucks means it's quite an investment for a game you might play for a couple days before realizing that without online battles, there's really nothing to do.

People without D/P are going to find out that there isn't really that much to keep your interest past a few hours. There are pre-made opponents to fight (battle, nah it's fighting, who am I kidding), but without a story or an adventure mode where you can build your levels, without D/P you're pretty much stuck with templates. In other words, SOL.

Despite it all, and based on what I've seen and heard in the past few months, I can still say that Pokemon is a franchise that is still going strong and will keep going for years to come.

So this'll become my unofficial review, I guess (or rough draft, if you will).

They kinda did use the voices from the cartoon, or should I say voice from the cartoon. the announcer is the same guy who narrates the Pokemon TV show. There aren't really any other voices to speak of.

Although I must admit if you don't have Diamond or Pearl, PBR really won't last for you, I have to counter argue some of your points. For one, the rental passes. although each comes with it's stock set of pokemon, you can get up to six different passes, and each is modifiable via Trade Battle once the game has been completed. So I myself can't really say the Rental passes stagnate. Who else has a Smeargle on their Rental Passes besides me?

I also have to argue with the comment that only die hard pokemon fans will want to see their Pokemon on TV. Most anyone who owns the game, weither die hard or not, would want to see their hard trained mons up on screen kicking ass. It's that novelty that has drawn people to Pokemon Stadium in the past, and it is that novelty now that was supposed to draw the average joe to PBR. Though i suppose once that novelty wears off, with nothing else in the game, the Average joe will find the game fairly useless.

I personally still regard it as a fantastic game, but I'm a hardcore trainer, and I consider the battling options a blessing. They didn't really market for the average player too much (Like they've been preaching about the Wii) but for those of us that it's actually marketed to, it's pretty solid.

 

[Ichida]

Who else has a Smeargle on their Rental Passes besides me?

You mean the one with Spore, Lock-on, and Guillotine? XDDD, I used that nasty little bugger in the Sunset Colosseum against Dusty and sniped all his Pokemon, lol.

 

[Pogiforce-14]

Don't think it was that one, but maybe.

 

[SBaby]

I personally still regard it as a fantastic game, but I'm a hardcore trainer, and I consider the battling options a blessing. They didn't really market for the average player too much (Like they've been preaching about the Wii) but for those of us that it's actually marketed to, it's pretty solid.

The key word (or phrase) that totally explained your post is 'hardcore trainer'. But you know, I really should've used the word 'hardcore' instead of 'die-hard' anyway, because that actually sounds more accurate.

 

[ShadowTails]

Here's my real question...

Did you guys bicker this much when you saw the Gamecube games?

That and did you guys notice that nearly all the back pics in RSEFRLG are all revamped versions of Gold and Silvers back art?...


--------------
Here is what I don't get... the Pokemon Stadium models are still what I consider good, heck even Conker's bad fur day is what I consider a decent model. I for one think if you guys are going to complain about a game this much you don't have to buy it and quit going all crazy about it...

 

[acrof]

Did you guys bicker this much when you saw the Gamecube games?

It depends:
Pokemon Colosseum and XD, yes.
All other games, no.

That and did you guys notice that nearly all the back pics in RSEFRLG are all revamped versions of Gold and Silvers back art?...

Same goes to Diamond and Pearl:

The real problem is that pokémon things in general (cartoon, games, etc), are always a step behind it´s competitors.
Pokémon used to be the most watched cartoon, and the most played game, but now....

I would kill Satoshi Tajiri and Game Freak for what they´re allowing to happen to pokémon.

The games are far worse than the fans were hopping, and can´t they realise that people are getting sick and tired of Satoshi (Ash) in the cartoon?:laugh:

Things like that make mad.

 

[SBaby]

Here's my real question...

Did you guys bicker this much when you saw the Gamecube games?

That and did you guys notice that nearly all the back pics in RSEFRLG are all revamped versions of Gold and Silvers back art?...


--------------
Here is what I don't get... the Pokemon Stadium models are still what I consider good, heck even Conker's bad fur day is what I consider a decent model. I for one think if you guys are going to complain about a game this much you don't have to buy it and quit going all crazy about it...

Rather than breaking up your quote, I'll just answer the questions in order. And this may turn into a rant, just to warn you.

To answer the first question, yes. I usually find something to complain about in Pokemon (I usualy find something to complain about in every game I play, so don't feel too bad or take it too personally). Sadly, most of Pokemon is the same tired concept of catching Pokemon and going to Leagues to battle. Don't get me wrong. I love the fact that you can recruit every static enemy in the game (one of the reasons I keep coming back to Pokemon is to experiment with different teams and combis). But the storyline is more or less the same thing each time.

When console Pokemon games come out, people in general expect big things. Whenever a console Final Fantasy or Zelda game comes out, what do we get? Well, a cliche' storyline with predictable plot twists. But that's not the point. The point is, the story is there, it's ALWAYS grandiose, and you've ALWAYS got a huge world or continent to explore. Why can't it be the same with the console Pokemon games?

I LOVED IT! I absolutely loved it, when Colosseum and XD came out. I loved having a real storyline, having a Region to explore (albeit a small one, but it was there). And you know what? It didn't take away from the multiplayer aspect of the game. It was still there. Sure, it wasn't online yet (most Nintendo games back then weren't), but it was there. Ok? Eheh...

So why did they scrap the story? Couldn't they have spent twenty minutes to write SOMETHING for the game? Couldn't they have at least allowed you to explore a big land or Region? Why remove it? What was the problem? It didn't reduce the popularity of the game. People still bought it. I honestly can't respond to those questions with any answer other than laziness on the developers' sides. But it could also be because the game came out so close to Diamond and Pearl. Maybe there just wasn't enough time to make one... Who knows? But it still didn't help the issue any.


To answer the second question, yes. The backs do look relatively the same, with the exception to a few uniquely shaped Pokemon. But yes, most of them are so similar that they almost look like rips of previous sprite backs. Fortunately, the graphics have improved slightly and the fronts always remain distinguishable. Graphics was never a major thing I looked for in games, only commenting on it if something really stands out (like the elevator in Xenosaga Episode I, where you get dizzy looking at it, that's just awesome). So this never really bothered me.


On an unrelated note, I wonder if they'll ever get to three-on-three battles? The two-on-two battles, while nice, just take way too long to complete, especially when you're going up against a Trainer that has 6 Pokemon. I really hope they move up to three-on-three at some point.


I know that the last comment really isn't a question, but I'll respond to it anyway. I never mentioned the Stadium models. For that matter, I never complained about the graphics. If anything, the graphics were the best thing about Battle Revolution. Sure you can see polygons, but name one game where you can't see them in the gameplay. And it doesn't matter because there's over 400 creatures to choose from, each with a different model. That to me, is the high-end graphics right there (being able to actually have that many in a game). So graphics shouldn't even BE an issue here.

And what Conker has to do with Pokemon is beyond me.

The games are far worse than the fans were hopping, and can´t they realise that people are getting sick and tired of Satoshi (Ash) in the cartoon?:laugh:

Ash doesn't bother me too much. What really bothers me is the lack of creativity and thought in the storyline. Your average episode of Pokemon consists of Ash, Brock and Dawn (or whatever new character's in the group this month) continuing their journey when they're sidetracked by someone either in need of help, or someone running a pointless competition. The gang goes to compete or help the person in question, when Team Rocket shows up and steals a Pokemon. Ash and the gang beat Team Rocket, return the stolen Pokemon and solve the problem. Then they move on with their journey.

And this goes on and on. For a show that supposedly has an ongoing plot, Pokemon is really repetitive.

Then there's the premise of Ash getting 8 Badges and entering the League. Why is this annoying? Read: FOUR TIMES!!! It has happened FOUR TIMES now! And the games aren't faring much better. Colosseum and XD actually put a bit of thought into the story, but even THOSE fell short. If it's a criminal organization, they aren't just gonna give up because you beat up their pets. That's like pronouncing Bass' name as it's spelled. It's just weird.

Why can't they come up with something better than that? Maybe if they'd spend more time creating a GOOD plot, instead of the same redundant, pointless stuff, the series would become more popular again.

 

[zephadus]

Yeah, this game sucks. Hard.

There was so much potential, and it all went to waste.

Diamond and Pearl are set in 3D envoronments anyway, so I was almost expecting there to be something similar to the "Gameboy Tower" from Pokémon Stadium, but nay.
I was actually hoping for a fully 3D playable version of Diamond/Pearl via Ds/Wii link-up.
I realize that's not likely to ever happen, but it's possible.

Anyway, other than that, there was also the trainer customization.
There's like, 2 items (exaggerating) in each category (eg: top, bottom, shoes, gloves) for each of the 6 trainer types, plus a couple items here and there that are universal.
I was hoping for something more like the character customization in the Tiger Woods PGA Tour games, or like in Def Jam Icon, or at the VERY least, The Sims.
But no, instead, we have characters with set faces, set hairstyles, and hats we can't remove.

Another simple thing I would have liked would be an option to turn off all the animation.
After the novelty of full-motion animation and neat-looking moves wears off, I just wanna speed through some of these friggin' rounds!
But I know they wouldn't do that because the 3D animation is the entire point.

This game is supposed to let us "enjoy" Pokémon in full 3D.
Unfortunately, that's ALL it does.
Think about it. If you don't upload your D/P Pokémon, you're stuck with rental trainers.
That's right, not rental pokémon. Rental trainers. With pre-defined, locked pokémon.
This means you can't make any custom teams unless you upload your
D/P pokémon.

So what does this tell me? It's ultimately just $50 worth of eye candy.
There's no enhanced gameplay, no special features, no nothing.
At least Pokémon Stadium had minigames and stuff.
Even Pokémon Colosseum (which I hate with a passion, btw) has a story mode to distract people.
Pokémon Battle Revolution is just a waste of money, which is why I'm going to sell it as soon as I can find some sucker who wants it.

...Now then... Agreements? Objections?

 

[12rusmisel]

yeah

but i play for 5 min. then could not stop then agian i can never stop playing my wii when i find a new game

 

[zephadus]

lol Personally, I'm very disappointed with the Wii.
The only game that I've played on it that I enjoy is Super Paper Mario. I love that game.
Everything else is absolutely intolerable. o.O
But as for PBR, it'd keep me amused if the Pokémon ever actually came into physical contact with each other. At least for tackle or something.

 

[Shadowflame3458]

I like PBR. It's cool to have the Next Generation of 3D pokemon gaming out for the Wii.

 

[sims796]

Now I agree with you (cept for that mini-game spot, not even corny mini-games would be able to justify $50) and I'm very dissapointed with PBR.

However, I do dissagree with that Wii comment. I love it. I got Twilight Princess, which I love, Super Paper Mario, also love, and Resident Evil 4, which I always wanted to play. I can see why your dissapointed, but be patient. Good stuff will come.
Hell, I'm Wii typing right now.

I'm glad there's a place where we can have a reasonable disscusion of agreements & dissagreements without all this anger.

 

[acrof]

One thing that makes me laugh everytime they release a new pokémon game:
The games look so good in the commercials, but when you buy it, and play it, you think/say that´s not as good I imagined...

I´m really dissapointed with this new generation of pokémon (for me the best generation of pokémon was the G/S/C one), the ruby/sapphire one was OK, but this one...

Starting with the new pokémon design, some are really cool (Dialga, Lucario, Empoleon, etc, IMO of course)
Others looks like they were drawn by a 3 years old kid...

Do I need to say something about these?

About the games:
Diamond & Pearl were much better than the previous versions, but
was really worse than other RPGs for the same system (Final Fantasy III, for example).
Also, most of the 3D shown in it could be done in a GameBoy Advance (yes there are 3D games for the GBA), and don´t forget that a nintendo DS has more processing power than a Nintendo 64.
Same standard story of the previous games: catch´em all, beat the evil organization and the E4, and become the champion...

PBR, has a better battle system than the Game Cube one, however I get the terrible feeling that they rushed too much to release this game (because every pokémon game is rushed XD, time is money, you know), you see, if they had waited and worked a little more to release this game (like they are doing with Mario Galaxy) it would be at last 10 times better than what we got.

I´m really dissapointed with this one, when I watched the first video preview I said: "Wow... This will be the ultimate pokémon game!" Of couse, back then I thought PBR had a Story line, Mini-games, and due to the fact that Fr/Lg characters were shown in the first preview, I thought: "Cool, is backward compatible with the old games!"
But when I searched for more information I found the sad truth.
PBR still had some 3D models from Stadium, it don´t have a Story Mode, no mini-games, the arena desctruction was not there aswell...


About the anime:
Well, it´s going downhill...
First because it´s still focusing in imaturity plots, the anime never changes, the same main character for 10 years! And to make it worse, the main character is still 11 years old after 10 years of anime! XD
They should try to make it a little more mature, like they did with digimon in their new season: Savers. (I love it)


Although Pokémon is not as popular as it was back in 1999, I´m still a fan, but only a fan of the concept (cool creatures that fight, etc).
I found much better games to play, and much better animes to watch, but I wish pokémon games and anime were in the place of the others I´m talking about.
Pokémon has potential, that´s not being used IMO, I really don´t know how pokémon is standing still...