Being bullied? Just act less gay, advise teachers

[blue]

What an appauling piece of advice.

 

[deoxys121]

Quite simply this: saying someone should "act less gay" is like saying someone should "act less white."

 

[Palkia]

Nice work, education system. Great freaking job.

Also, I say no to all 5 questions.

 

[Esper]

@Scarf: That relation to the Toronto officer is tenuous at best. The news report says that these people are being picked on specifically for their appearance. It's a well-known fact that sexual attacks aren't based on the level of attractiveness of the woman involved, so the way they dress wouldn't affect the deviants at all. However, if someone is being picked on exclusively for their appearance, and then changed their appearance, it's reasonable to guess that people picking on them for their appearance will...no longer pick on them.

I hope you didn't think I agreed with what that Toronto cop said because I don't. I only brought it up because like this story it's a case of someone blaming victims for the faults of others (and because I was trying to add something else to the discussion so it might expand beyond just talking about schools).

I don't know about you, but when I read that kids were being told to change their hair I didn't immediately think they were dying it or doing other kinds of attention-grabbing things with their hair. I assumed that since this was in England that there was a good chance their school had a dress code or a uniform and that anything these kids who were bullied were doing with their appearance couldn't be very extreme in the first place. So I took away from the article the image of a kid with maybe only a Justin Bieber style haircut being harassed. I mean, the "advice" of the teachers may have been to change their hair, but who knows what the bullies were actually targeting. For all we know it was those teachers who had a problem with the kids' appearance and assumed that was the cause.

And from the article it also sounded like what the kids describe as "bullying" the teachers may have described as "teasing" so it's just all kinds of unclear all around.

I'll agree with you certainly that if you dye your hair and get some comments on it that's nothing but you and your choice, but if things slide from "teasing" into "bullying" then it's totally inappropriate to tell the victims they need to change. Adults are supposed to keep schools safe and they can stop bullies once they know about them so there's no call for them to shift that burden to kids.

 

[Oryx]

I hope you didn't think I agreed with what that Toronto cop said because I don't. I only brought it up because like this story it's a case of someone blaming victims for the faults of others (and because I was trying to add something else to the discussion so it might expand beyond just talking about schools).

I don't know about you, but when I read that kids were being told to change their hair I didn't immediately think they were dying it or doing other kinds of attention-grabbing things with their hair. I assumed that since this was in England that there was a good chance their school had a dress code or a uniform and that anything these kids who were bullied were doing with their appearance couldn't be very extreme in the first place. So I took away from the article the image of a kid with maybe only a Justin Bieber style haircut being harassed. I mean, the "advice" of the teachers may have been to change their hair, but who knows what the bullies were actually targeting. For all we know it was those teachers who had a problem with the kids' appearance and assumed that was the cause.

And from the article it also sounded like what the kids describe as "bullying" the teachers may have described as "teasing" so it's just all kinds of unclear all around.

I'll agree with you certainly that if you dye your hair and get some comments on it that's nothing but you and your choice, but if things slide from "teasing" into "bullying" then it's totally inappropriate to tell the victims they need to change. Adults are supposed to keep schools safe and they can stop bullies once they know about them so there's no call for them to shift that burden to kids.

Oh no lol, I know that you would never agree with what he said. I was just pointing out the differences between the idea of being picked on for appearance and attacked for what you're wearing are two entirely different things and can't really be compared, because it's rather common knowledge that what you're wearing has no bearing on whether or not you will be attacked like that but it seems reasonable to assume that if you're being picked on due to a part of your appearance that you can change, changing that part will stop the picking.

I'm a little confused personally on the level of schooling it is. Someone here referred to it as a college but a lot of the news articles don't reference it at all, which greatly changes my opinion. In high school and middle school, there's a level of punishment available to teachers for students outside of class that's just not available in college. Teachers can't control everything at that level, and students will have even less of an ability to punish people that bully them once they get out of school entirely. That's why I feel that in college it's reasonable to give a student actual tips that they can take out into the real world to reduce the problem. Yeah, in an ideal society no one would ever pick on anyone else because of their appearance so no one would have to think about that when choosing how to style their hair or dress, but we don't live in an ideal society. It's a compromise that sometimes has to be made by people in the real world where there aren't teachers.

If it's in college, are there uniforms and strict dress code requirements in English colleges? I was under the impression that it was just lower education, not into college.

I think this article is still very badly worded because the first line says "bullied about their sexuality", but the actual article says "picked on for their appearance". There's a very large difference between the two which makes it rather confusing. I read the second one and assumed that meant that the teasing is because of their appearance. I can see how it might be how you see it though, which would change things.

I don't think that the solution of the teachers is right in all situations, obviously. Each different situation has its own different optimal solution, but the point I'm trying to make is that it isn't necessarily wrong flat-out without all the facts like some people have been posting. Without knowledge of the intent of the teachers, the attitude towards the students, the ability to punish the offenders, how the students were actually dressing, and the extent of the bullying/teasing, we can't rule out their actions as wrong in every scenario.

 

[-ty-]

The teachers are on the right track, but I think they should give it a bit of a twist. I think that the teachers should ask the heterosexual students to act less straight, and instead, those kids can act more homosexual. The majority of the school would be acting gay, therefore there would be less bullying.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

The teachers are on the right track, but I think they should give it a bit of a twist. I think that the teachers should ask the heterosexual students to act less straight, and instead, those kids can act more homosexual. The majority of the school would be acting gay, therefore there would be less bullying.

And not to mention a lot more fabulous.

 

[2Cool4Mewtwo]

Teachers are "trying" to help but they're going about the wrong way. I think it's the society in whole that I think needs to be more tolerant of gays, which I don't think will happen in at least couple generations, especially if the issue with racism in America, supposedly one of the most developed countries, wasn't solved for hundreds of years. (NOT saying that those two issues are directly related, but I am making a comparison of similar situation)

 

[TorixPikachu]

1. No.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. No.

 

[MagicalNeko]

weeeeeellll I think the teachers just didn't think it through, I guess if you're being bullied for appearing gay then acting less gay makes sense in short term...but it's a baaaad idea in the long run for loads of resons. silly teachers Dx

yus, silly teachers...not evil teachers though ^^ I think their heart was probably in the right place...but maybe not their heads

 

[-ty-]

weeeeeellll I think the teachers just didn't think it through, I guess if you're being bullied for appearing gay then acting less gay makes sense in short term...but it's a baaaad idea in the long run for loads of resons. silly teachers Dx

yus, silly teachers...not evil teachers though ^^ I think their heart was probably in the right place...but maybe not their heads

They more so want to dump the responsibility of gay teen bullying upon the LGBT teens who are being bullied. They are not trying to create a solution, rather, they are avoiding taking actions into their own hands. Not to say all teachers want to avoid the responsibility of dealing with bullying.

 

[oocyst]

I don't really think of it as 'Blaming the victim'. It's just an advice to avoid being bullied. Sure, everyone has the right to dress as they like, but people tend to pick on people who have a different appearance. You can't just expect everyone to accept you the way you are, and sure, people need to accept you but some people are just not going to do that. You can choose to keep dressing and acting the way you are and maybe try to do something about their behaviour, or you can change your own behaviour. Changing other people is harder than changing yourself, and that's why these teachers are giving this advice to people. I'm not saying that I totally agree with them, but there is some truth to it.

I used to dress and act differently, and I got a lot of weird looks and people kept questioning me about it. One day I just gave it up because I just didn't need to be like that anymore. All that negative attention stopped after that, and when I look back at it, it was a huge step for me towards being more mature.

So I'm not saying you NEED to follow this advice, because that's what it is, advice.

 

[MagicalNeko]

They more so want to dump the responsibility of gay teen bullying upon the LGBT teens who are being bullied. They are not trying to create a solution, rather, they are avoiding taking actions into their own hands.

Buuuuuut....where exactly is the proof of that? It just sounds like you're assuming the worst of them...

 

[Black Ice]

As a practical matter, acting less gay might be beneficial.

Not saying it's right. But it kinda sorta makes sense. The world is ****ed up sometimes. Being idealistic to a bully isn't going to bring much change.

Or maybe they could just punish bullies a little more severely. I always thought we they got off pretty easy.

 

[-ty-]

Buuuuuut....where exactly is the proof of that? It just sounds like you're assuming the worst of them...

I don't assume the worst of these teachers. I simply said they do not want to take any responsibility; they are basically saying it is the "gay-acting" students fault that they are being bullied. They do not have good nor bad intentions; they want to avoid mandates that will make them liable for bullying if they sit back and just let it happen.

 

[MagicalNeko]

I don't assume the worst of these teachers. I simply said they do not want to take any responsibility; they are basically saying it is the "gay-acting" students fault that they are being bullied. They do not have good nor bad intentions; they want to avoid mandates that will make them liable for bullying if they sit back and just let it happen.

Where did they say it was their fault that they're being bullied? I can't see that anywhere in there o__O

 

[-ty-]

They do not have to out-right say it is the gay person's fault; however, the "advice" insinuates that their "gay-acting" behavior is the catalyst for the bullying. A person whose behavior is causing conflict is at blame or fault for creating conflict. Come on, do I really need to state the obvious?

 

[Oryx]

-ty-, I think the point Neko was making is that the article said they were being picked on for their appearance, so logical short-term 'survive school' advice would be to change their appearance to not get picked on. Yes, the ideal solution is to make the bullies see the error of their ways and change and become more tolerant, but you can't automatically fault the teachers.

You said two entirely different things in two sentences; in the first one you said that people shouldn't be asked to change if they behave 'gay', but in the second one you said that if a behavior causes conflict, they are at fault for behaving in a way that causes conflict. Like I've said before in this thread, it depends on the extent of the problem and how focused it is on their appearance and honestly how "out there" their appearance is, so it's unreasonable to immediately dismiss the teachers as apathetic and uncaring.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

-ty-, I think the point Neko was making is that the article said they were being picked on for their appearance, so logical short-term 'survive school' advice would be to change their appearance to not get picked on. Yes, the ideal solution is to make the bullies see the error of their ways and change and become more tolerant, but you can't automatically fault the teachers.

You said two entirely different things in two sentences; in the first one you said that people shouldn't be asked to change if they behave 'gay', but in the second one you said that if a behavior causes conflict, they are at fault for behaving in a way that causes conflict. Like I've said before in this thread, it depends on the extent of the problem and how focused it is on their appearance and honestly how "out there" their appearance is, so it's unreasonable to immediately dismiss the teachers as apathetic and uncaring.

I agree. If it's the appearance that's drawing negative attention, isn't it best to change your appearance? While, yes, the ideal situation is for everyone to be accepting of everybody, that's not reality. Going beyond school and into the workforce, many professions will have professional dress codes and what not. Perhaps school uniforms would provide a remedy.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I don't think this is the right way to go about trying to end this type of bullying. People have to learn to tolerate different types of people and to respect one's self,that's what I think we should do to end bullying.