Being bullied? Just act less gay, advise teachers

[FreakyLocz14]

I don't think this is the right way to go about trying to end this type of bullying. People have to learn to tolerate different types of people and to respect one's self,that's what I think we should do to end bullying.

And how do you go about enforcing that? Sure, people should be tolerant, but we can't bend expectations for certain people with unorthodox fashions.

This would have to be a local, district by district, school by school thing, but school uniforms are intended to eliminate distractions that a student's unusual fashion sense.

 

[Minishcap]

x is not represenative for what the majority of Brits

I always though of Europe as being this place that's way more progressed on LGBT stuff. I guess it's not.

Europe is not as homogeneous (oh I did I did!) as many people might think. The Nordic and Western countries are the more liberal when it comes to sexuality. While the eastern countries are not places you would want to be as a homosexual, though ironically you can kiss a man on the cheek there because it is part of culture. This school in Essex (if the story is true) will probably get a major slapp on the buttocks for this.

 

[MagicalNeko]

And how do you go about enforcing that? Sure, people should be tolerant, but we can't bend expectations for certain people with unorthodox fashions.

This would have to be a local, district by district, school by school thing, but school uniforms are intended to eliminate distractions that a student's unusual fashion sense.

Weeeellll remember this was in a school in Essex in the UK and we do have school uniform here ^^;;

Thinking about it, "act less gay" probably referred to people being bullied for acting very camp seeing as appearance couldn't have been much of a factor. Personally I think the teachers should deal with the bullies properly or else they'll grow up with the idea that it's okay to discriminate against gay people but I don't think the teachers are being anti-LGBT or trying to clean their hands of responsibility or anything >_<

The thing is...a lot of teachers are older and from a different generation and those teachers probably don't understand the self-identity that comes with being LGBT because they grew up in an era where it was hidden behind closed doors, so to them "stop acting gay" just makes sense, but to us younger generation we see it as oppressive on our self-identity and take offense and then it ends up in the newspapers with the teachers being demonised slightly =/

 

[Caine]

Do you think these teachers will be able to get away with this?
I think that they should be more sensitive about it.
Do you think these teachers have the right to say this to students that are gay?
I think that the advice is correct, unless they want to physically fight back or get the bullies excluded (which could lead to worse bullying) they acting 'less gay' could help them.
Do you think these teachers have the right to say this to students that aren't gay?
Yeah, cuz if it offends them then they're hiding something.
Do you think that kids should dress more "normal"
I think that if they want to make themselves a target then it's up to them.
Do you think that kids should also have "normal" haircuts
Same as above.


People in this day and age, such as myself have become very exposed this. I honestly think that while these people don't deserved to be bullied they should deal with it. I've been bullied a lot throughout school. I used to cry myself to sleep. Then I manned up and stopped acting like a fool and I gained loads of friends, I am now a Christian and I think that I'm glad I did what I did. I mean there was a (true) rumour that I had kissed a boy (I was a bi-curious, wannabe emo sort) and it was hard, but I regret doing that, let them know, and got over it. Simple. It stopped once I admitted I had been wrong.
I have nothing against gays, one of my best friends is gay, and he's the strongest guy I know, emotionally and physically BECAUSE he had dealt with his problem in school, and these kids should do the same.

The teachers are on the right track, but I think they should give it a bit of a twist. I think that the teachers should ask the heterosexual students to act less straight, and instead, those kids can act more homosexual. The majority of the school would be acting gay, therefore there would be less bullying.

A very funny but slightly flawed concept- it just clearly wouldn't work. I can guarantee 90% of my friends, for example, wouldn't do it. And other than school rules about phones we are fairly compliant and listen to (mostly) what we're told by our teachers or head of year.

which I don't think will happen in at least couple generations, especially if the issue with racism in America, supposedly one of the most developed countries, wasn't solved for hundreds of years. (NOT saying that those two issues are directly related, but I am making a comparison of similar situation)

There is still racism in America after over 400 years, it isn't going to stop any time soon. Just like people against homosexuality may never go away.

 

[-ty-]

Do you think these teachers will be able to get away with this?
I think that they should be more sensitive about it.
Do you think these teachers have the right to say this to students that are gay?
I think that the advice is correct, unless they want to physically fight back or get the bullies excluded (which could lead to worse bullying) they acting 'less gay' could help them.
Do you think these teachers have the right to say this to students that aren't gay?
Yeah, cuz if it offends them then they're hiding something.
Do you think that kids should dress more "normal"
I think that if they want to make themselves a target then it's up to them.
Do you think that kids should also have "normal" haircuts
Same as above.


People in this day and age, such as myself have become very exposed to p***y-fication. I honestly think that while these people don't deserved to be bullied they should deal with it. I've been bullied a lot throughout school. I used to cry myself to sleep. Then I manned up and stopped acting like a t*t and I gained loads of friends, I am now a Christian and I think that I'm glad I did what I did. I mean there was a (true) rumour that I had kissed a boy (I was a bi-curious, wannabe emo sort) and it was hard, but I regret doing that, let them know, and got over it. Simple. It stopped once I admitted I had been wrong.
I have nothing against gays, one of my best friends is gay, and he's the strongest guy I know, emotionally and physically BECAUSE he had dealt with his problem in school, and these kids should do the same.



A very funny but slightly flawed concept- it just clearly wouldn't work. I can guarantee 90% of my friends, for example, wouldn't do it. And other than school rules about phones we are fairly compliant and listen to (mostly) what we're told by our teachers or head of year.



There is still racism in America after over 400 years, it isn't going to stop any time soon. Just like people against homosexuality may never go away.

Quote taken out of context a few times in replies. I was saying that the teachers were placing blame on gay students by saying that it was their gay behavior causing the bullying; the solution act less gay. In reality, it's the behavior of the bully. The teachers avoid saying that they should change their behavior. That is why the blame is placed upon the gay students, which is not right.

And to Neko, I never said the teachers were apathetic, but rather they do not want to assume any responsibly from mandates that might require them to achieve certification/training on bullying, which would make their jobs more difficult. But I think that teachers should have knowledge about bullying and procedures in order to prevent/stop it in the classroom.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Weeeellll remember this was in a school in Essex in the UK and we do have school uniform here ^^;;

Thinking about it, "act less gay" probably referred to people being bullied for acting very camp seeing as appearance couldn't have been much of a factor. Personally I think the teachers should deal with the bullies properly or else they'll grow up with the idea that it's okay to discriminate against gay people but I don't think the teachers are being anti-LGBT or trying to clean their hands of responsibility or anything >_<

The thing is...a lot of teachers are older and from a different generation and those teachers probably don't understand the self-identity that comes with being LGBT because they grew up in an era where it was hidden behind closed doors, so to them "stop acting gay" just makes sense, but to us younger generation we see it as oppressive on our self-identity and take offense and then it ends up in the newspapers with the teachers being demonised slightly =/

Uniforms aren't the only option, but they are one. I'd be opposed to a federal or state uniform mandates, but I'd support it at the local school district level if a democratic, open process took place.

I really don't know how the students are acting. Are they have disruptive outbursts? Talking about sexual subject matters? I don't know.

I'm taking sides each way, because I know that teachers deal with school bullying on a daily basis, so they are most likely just desensitized to the topic.

 

[Rogue planet]

I can't really fault the teachers too much here. YEah it is an absolute crap solution, but we live in a crap world. It is easier to get people to conform rather than to try and make idiots realise they're idiotic (near impossible).

But really... If you've got the guts to dress outlandishly then you should be prepared to have the guts to deal with bullies as well. It's almost guaranteed you're going to get some backlash.

It makes me happy seeing this thread though, with any luck the next generation (or maybe the second?) will be totally different. We've all grown up in an age of tolerance, maybe it will make a big difference in the future.

 

[Caine]

I can't really fault the teachers too much here. YEah it is an absolute crap solution, but we live in a crap world. It is easier to get people to conform rather than to try and make idiots realise they're idiotic (near impossible).

But really... If you've got the guts to dress outlandishly then you should be prepared to have the guts to deal with bullies as well. It's almost guaranteed you're going to get some backlash.

It makes me happy seeing this thread though, with any luck the next generation (or maybe the second?) will be totally different. We've all grown up in an age of tolerance, maybe it will make a big difference in the future.

I so wish I could say I believe this will happen, although I HIGHLY doubt we're ever going to live in a word with tolerance. I see discrimination and bullying every day at school, it's just something that happens. Even nice kids do it, it's just the way it works.
Who needs to have things in common when they can laugh at another group of people? It's a shame but it's the reality. In secondary school at least the teachers have almost no influence on how people behave in break times, and the only time they get involved is if there's a fight, and even then they usually do nothing.

Kids have a laugh, if that means targeting someone then they will do it. I have managed to stop being a target and I try to encourage people not to steal from people just because they can, or hurt them, but I still joke about people.

So long as there are people who alienate themselves, such as camp people, or people who always say things are racist, then there will always be bullies.

 

[Rogue planet]

I so wish I could say I believe this will happen, although I HIGHLY doubt we're ever going to live in a word with tolerance. I see discrimination and bullying every day at school, it's just something that happens. Even nice kids do it, it's just the way it works.

It was the same for me at school; but that's in part because of how even the current adult generations before us are still prejudiced. Now I know a lot of people who are aged from late teens to late twenties, I can honestly say the vast majority of them are very tolerant.

We've definitely come far though, I mean look at Lawrence v. Texas, and now less than 10 years later they've got gay marriage in New York. LGBT rights can only improve in the years to come. Racism as well, if you look how far we've come in the past 50 years it is staggering when you consider how little was accomplished in the centuries beforehand. Yes it's still a problem, but there have still been considerable advancements.

 

[sims796]

I disagree with those that say "don't fault the teachers". Dealing with bullies is part of their job. Telling the student to change his appearance is a short term solution, as that may not stop the bullying to begin with. We are starting to see the very real, very negative aspects of bullying, and I'd hate to have another mass shooting or suicide on our hands because "we live in a crap world".

Rather than pass the puck to the student (and no matter the excuse, that was very terrible wording), she should have sought out the bully, and dug up the problem. Sure, she could advise the student to make himself less of a target, but it doesn't take a genius to see that a teacher telling a student to "act less gay" is showing extreme disregard, and is passing the blame towards the student. That does not help, and lets the student know that he is on his own when it comes to bullying.

So long as there are people who alienate themselves, such as camp people, or people who always say things are racist, then there will always be bullies.

Don't forget those that are, y'know, actually racist. They tend to be a problem as well.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I disagree with those that say "don't fault the teachers". Dealing with bullies is part of their job. Telling the student to change his appearance is a short term solution, as that may not stop the bullying to begin with. We are starting to see the very real, very negative aspects of bullying, and I'd hate to have another mass shooting or suicide on our hands because "we live in a crap world".

Rather than pass the puck to the student (and no matter the excuse, that was very terrible wording), she should have sought out the bully, and dug up the problem. Sure, she could advise the student to make himself less of a target, but it doesn't take a genius to see that a teacher telling a student to "act less gay" is showing extreme disregard, and is passing the blame towards the student. That does not help, and lets the student know that he is on his own when it comes to bullying.



Don't forget those that are, y'know, actually racist. They tend to be a problem as well.

Sure. The teacher isn't completely innocent, but we also can't put all the pressure on them.

 

[Caine]

It was the same for me at school; but that's in part because of how even the current adult generations before us are still prejudiced. Now I know a lot of people who are aged from late teens to late twenties, I can honestly say the vast majority of them are very tolerant.

The problem is that your point is very good but has 1 major flaw. If the reason it's like that in school is because of parents then the kids that are doing in in school are going to pass that on to their children.

The thing is with race is that there are a lot more black people (for example) in western cities and schools than there were 50 years ago, and so people are more tolerant. Gay people don't have a specific origin or a country/ continent where they come from. This means that unlike black people they can't come in masses and make people see differently just by being integrated into their life. It is quite clear if someone is black or not which also makes it easier to realise they aren't some kind of threat if you see them all the time.

The thing about gay people is that what they are doesn't have to be in the open, yet they often alienate themselves and this really isn't the way to go about things. Gay Pride, for instance, just makes it in our face that they are different. They could just get on with their lives.

It's cliche to say, but would a Straight Pride be allowed? No, because that would be 'offensive'. They could just lead normal lives, but instead of a woman in their life they have a man. AS for public display of affection- it isn't even often I see man and woman embracing each other or kissing in public, again, if you're gay, why make yourself a target? It isn't hard to find a private place to do whatever you want.

As for gay marriage... Well I'll just say in my opinion that is an oxymoron. It makes no sense to me. The fact that it's allowed just seems stupid to me. However, I am against homosexuality, not homosexuals. I will treat them no differently for what they are, but I think it is wrong.

 

[sims796]

Sure. The teacher isn't completely innocent, but we also can't put all the pressure on them.

Sure we can - that's their job. If they don't do it right, bad things will happen.

What I mean is, if the teacher had handled this in the best possible way that they could manage, within reason, then they have done all that they could. We can only hope but for so much. In this case, however, telling your student to "act less gay" is honestly making the problem worse. Now he may feel that he cannot go to teachers for help. Students in that position usually find other ways of dealing. Suffer in silence, or take it amongst themselves, and it isn't rare that a gun is the 'best' way of dealing with it.

This is why bullying is such a big deal nowadays. Schools need to run a zero tolerant policy for that, because the consequences are becoming more and more dire by the minute.

The thing about gay people is that what they are doesn't have to be in the open, yet they often alienate themselves and this really isn't the way to go about things. Gay Pride, for instance, just makes it in our face that they are different. They could just get on with their lives.

It's cliche to say, but would a Straight Pride be allowed? No, because that would be 'offensive'. They could just lead normal lives, but instead of a woman in their life they have a man. AS for public display of affection- it isn't even often I see man and woman embracing each other or kissing in public, again, if you're gay, why make yourself a target? It isn't hard to find a private place to do whatever you want.

Actually, it's because they aren't able to simply 'get on with their lives' is what's the problem.

By your own admission, the basic 'privlege', if you will, that straight people are allowed isn't exactly given for gays. As you said, gays aren't even allowed public displays of affection, unless they want to become targets. Straight people usually do not have to find a private place to embrace - do it on the train, on the streets, feel free to kiss. Yet gays must not? That is a problem, but one that won't dissapear. You rarely see people beat up straight people for being straight. This is only one of the ways that things aren't exactly equal to simply say "get on with your lives"

As for Pride parades, well, I don't care for them at all. However, Straights don't need 'pride'. We got everything else working for our advantage. If I wanna show my straight pride, I can simply kiss me girlfriend in public. As you said, gays aren't even allowed that.

Er, I just wanted to address this post, so I will not derail it any further.

 

[Black Ice]

Sure we can - that's their job. If they don't do it right, bad things will happen.

What I mean is, if the teacher had handled this in the best possible way that they could manage, within reason, then they have done all that they could. We can only hope but for so much. In this case, however, telling your student to "act less gay" is honestly making the problem worse. Now he may feel that he cannot go to teachers for help. Students in that position usually find other ways of dealing. Suffer in silence, or take it amongst themselves, and it isn't rare that a gun is the 'best' way of dealing with it.

This is why bullying is such a big deal nowadays. Schools need to run a zero tolerant policy for that, because the consequences are becoming more and more dire by the minute.




Actually, it's because they aren't able to simply 'get on with their lives' is what's the problem.

By your own admission, the basic 'privlege', if you will, that straight people are allowed isn't exactly given for gays. As you said, gays aren't even allowed public displays of affection, unless they want to become targets. Straight people usually do not have to find a private place to embrace - do it on the train, on the streets, feel free to kiss. Yet gays must not? That is a problem, but one that won't dissapear. You rarely see people beat up straight people for being straight. This is only one of the ways that things aren't exactly equal to simply say "get on with your lives"

As for Pride parades, well, I don't care for them at all. However, Straights don't need 'pride'. We got everything else working for our advantage. If I wanna show my straight pride, I can simply kiss me girlfriend in public. As you said, gays aren't even allowed that.

Er, I just wanted to address this post, so I will not derail it any further.

There is a saying that goes, "life isn't fair."

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I'm not opposed to a zero tolerance policy, but let's also look at the deeper issues and suggest to his parents that he get some counseling for his anger management problems.

 

[Blue Nocturne]

Just popped in to say that acting less "Gay" might not necessarily help. There are guys in my school who act a lot "gayer" than I do, the don't get bullied as I used to; same with my ex-boyfriends school. Being gay seems to be of more significance than acting it. In most cases where the kids are already being bullied, I worry that changing is unlikely to help. If anything it just makes the victim appear more insecure about themselves.

There is a saying that goes, "life isn't fair."

No, it's not. But that certainly doesn't mean we should just accept that. Neither should we just accept bullying and not address it properly.

 

[Oryx]

Just popped in to say that acting less "Gay" might not necessarily help. There are guys in my school who act a lot "gayer" than I do, the don't get bullied as I used to; same with my ex-boyfriends school. Being gay seems to be of more significance than acting it. In most cases where the kids are already being bullied, I worry that changing is unlikely to help. If anything it just makes the victim appear more insecure about themselves.



No, it's not. But that certainly doesn't mean we should just accept that. Neither should we just accept bullying and not address it properly.

The point I am making is that you can't know whether or not that was the solution that helped the most, so while yes, it can be bad advice if the bullying is persistent and aggressive enough, in other circumstances it can be just the right advice. All I'm saying is don't be so quick to crucify the teachers since we don't know all the circumstances.

And I do agree with your second point to an extent. I've often made that point in other arguments myself. But under the assumption that it's a college, say the situation goes like this:

1. Student gets snarky comments for "acting gay".
2. Student goes to teacher.
3. Teacher punishes, bullies go away forever yayyy

Then in a few years they get kicked out into the real world, where jobs take your behavior and appearance into consideration when hiring you, and snarky comments can't be stopped by a teacher. That kid isn't prepared in the least for that because every time he's been looked at funny the kid that did it was punished so he didn't do it again. Ideally, no one would judge him in the real world. But it happens. You set kids up for failure if you teach them that the world is better than it is, and then throw them into it sink-or-swim.

 

[Esper]

Then in a few years they get kicked out into the real world, where jobs take your behavior and appearance into consideration when hiring you, and snarky comments can't be stopped by a teacher. That kid isn't prepared in the least for that because every time he's been looked at funny the kid that did it was punished so he didn't do it again. Ideally, no one would judge him in the real world. But it happens. You set kids up for failure if you teach them that the world is better than it is, and then throw them into it sink-or-swim.

But snarky comments =/= bullying. I think you're inadvertently downplaying the severity of some cases of bullying by using "snarky comments" as your example here.

I would be pleasantly surprised if there were a school where every case of harassment, bullying, and teasing was caught by a teacher. It's not like there are going to be large numbers of kids who have never experienced some jerk getting away with something mean.

What I mean to say is, everyone is prepared on some level for the real world, at least where it comes to knowing there are jerks around. I think it would have to be a very overbearing school which would produce the "sink or swim" cases you describe.

 

[Black Ice]

Just popped in to say that acting less "Gay" might not necessarily help. There are guys in my school who act a lot "gayer" than I do, the don't get bullied as I used to; same with my ex-boyfriends school. Being gay seems to be of more significance than acting it. In most cases where the kids are already being bullied, I worry that changing is unlikely to help. If anything it just makes the victim appear more insecure about themselves.



No, it's not. But that certainly doesn't mean we should just accept that. Neither should we just accept bullying and not address it properly.

A lot of bullying depends on the reactions the victims give off. Insecure people are more likely to take bullying seriously, and thus will become the subject of bullying more often. Others who just shrug everything off aren't worth it to bullies, so the bullies give up and find weaker targets. This is probably where the whole difference in treatment comes into play.

Of course bullying should be addressed properly. But that is only half of the battle.

There should probably be some life lesson classes in high school. Seems like it'd be a very nifty thing to have.

 

[Yoshikko]

Ok so, when I read the statement, I thought that the way the brought it up wasn't good and it bothered me. Saying that someone should act less "gay", doesn't reflect on the fact that they are homosexual, but more on that they find that they act dumb or stupid, I think, which just isn't a right thing to say. It is an opinion and therefore something like this shouldn't at all be based on that.

BUT, it could also mean that they should really act less gay - which would be girly-like for guys -, and I have to say that in that sense, I can't help but agree a little. Before you start telling me that everyone is free and that they are allowed to express themselves in whatever way they want (of course I do agree with this), what I mean is that when you act like i.e. a dumbass (just giving an example here), then don't be surprised if other people are going to treat you like one, or bully you for being one. Now I know that people who are gay, are just gay, they can't help it, but I do think that a LOT of homosexual people really over-exaggerate, and I don't find it all that surprising that they would be bullied for that, because it's just ridiculous, the way some people act and exaggerate. Just because you are gay, does not mean you have to go throw flowers everywhere and blow handkisses to everyone, and I feel that a lot of people just act this way because they feel like they can, because they are gay, and I can understand - not saying I agree - why they would be bullied. My best friend is gay, and he isn't like that either. He's just like a dude, with a different sexual preference. He doesn't go acting like a girl or anything. Like I said before, of course the people who act this way are allowed to do that, and it doesn't necessarily bother me, I am just saying that if you don't want to be bullied (and you know it's gonna happen when you act like that), then they should just tone it down a bit.

Spoiler:

Like I mean come on. Act this way if you want, and I can appreciate when people do it, but don't be surprised if other people bully you for it because those people just exist.

I also feel like I need to point out that I know that NOT ALL GAYS ARE LIKE THIS AND I DON'T THINK THAT EITHER, I am just talking about the select few that ARE in fact like this, and imo are just bringing it upon themselves a little.

And of course I think that the teachers shouldn't have said it like that, that's just not good.