Being bullied? Just act less gay, advise teachers

[Esper]

snip

Imagine you had a high school kid who was transgendered. To some people they'll only see a boy wearing skirts or makeup. To some people this is just a kid "acting gay" when the reality is completely different. How exactly is this kid supposed to act different without completely compromising who they are?

 

[Rogue planet]

Sure we can - that's their job. If they don't do it right, bad things will happen.

[...]

This is why bullying is such a big deal nowadays. Schools need to run a zero tolerant policy for that, because the consequences are becoming more and more dire by the minute.

What are teachers supposed to do though? Corporal punishment isn't allowed, teachers have absolutely no power anymore. All they can do is expel or exclude a student, and that doesn't solve the problem either. As a society we constantly complain about how teachers should not be too harsh on their students, and then when there's an issue we complain that they aren't dealing with it properly. It's easy to say they're doing something wrong; but nobody seems to be able to say what the right thing to do is.

It's not the duty of a teacher to shape the personality of a child, in fact it's near impossible for a teacher to do that. How many bullies have you known about that really gave a damn what the teacher told them? It's the role of the parent to teach children these things; but there's nothing to stop racist, ignorant, homophobes from having children, and they're not going to educate their kids about good values. The whole situation is the result of an underlying problem that doesn't seem to have any real solution.

 

[Yoshikko]

Imagine you had a high school kid who was transgendered. To some people they'll only see a boy wearing skirts or makeup. To some people this is just a kid "acting gay" when the reality is completely different. How exactly is this kid supposed to act different without completely compromising who they are?

I'm not talking about transgendered kids, and I know about their situation and I agree with you. I'm talking about the select few that exaggerate feminine behaviour (not transgendered kids obv).

 

[FreakyLocz14]

What are teachers supposed to do though? Corporal punishment isn't allowed, teachers have absolutely no power anymore. All they can do is expel or exclude a student, and that doesn't solve the problem either. As a society we constantly complain about how teachers should not be too harsh on their students, and then when there's an issue we complain that they aren't dealing with it properly. It's easy to say they're doing something wrong; but nobody seems to be able to say what the right thing to do is.

It's not the duty of a teacher to shape the personality of a child, in fact it's near impossible for a teacher to do that. How many bullies have you known about that really gave a damn what the teacher told them? It's the role of the parent to teach children these things; but there's nothing to stop racist, ignorant, homophobes from having children, and they're not going to educate their kids about good values. The whole situation is the result of an underlying problem that doesn't seem to have any real solution.

This is sad, but true. The power really does lie with the parents. I'm seeing schools try to shape the personality of their students (like SB 48 here), but it's all a waste of time and money if ignorant parents are just going to override it at home.

 

[Sean]

Gonna throw a point out there that bullies can usually be influenced by their parents if they're homophobic.

A lot of gay people DO over-exaggerate. What I mean in this is they act way, way, way, WAY too girly. I know several gay people and they could definitely be more "camp" if they tried.

If you're getting bullied, then tone down on the girliness. It's what I've done and it's helped lol, just don't act girly around the majority of people but rather your friends I guess, but a lot of people can't help themselves when it comes to being girly-gay. It's just natural and its not their fault at all. I used to be a really really girly-gay but now I've toned down on that and really, it works. (but I've never been bullied so I dunno how it feels really, surprising yeah)

The power of changing this whole view of society lies in parents yes, because they can influence in a child being homophobic or in the victims case, don't help them battle their problems. The problem nowadays is a lot of people try to deal with problems themselves now which is a really bad outlook.

 

[-ty-]

Gonna throw a point out there that bullies can usually be influenced by their parents if they're homophobic.

A lot of gay people DO over-exaggerate. What I mean in this is they act way, way, way, WAY too girly. I know several gay people and they could definitely be more "camp" if they tried.

If you're getting bullied, then tone down on the girliness. It's what I've done and it's helped lol, just don't act girly around the majority of people but rather your friends I guess, but a lot of people can't help themselves when it comes to being girly-gay. It's just natural and its not their fault at all. I used to be a really really girly-gay but now I've toned down on that and really, it works. (but I've never been bullied so I dunno how it feels really, surprising yeah)

The power of changing this whole view of society lies in parents yes, because they can influence in a child being homophobic or in the victims case, don't help them battle their problems. The problem nowadays is a lot of people try to deal with problems themselves now which is a really bad outlook.

But in some cases, the child cannot help how they act. It's like if the school asked straight girls to be more masculine, or straight guys to where makeup and be in touch with their inner woman. For some gay/bi/transgender people, there personality doesn't conform to the "normative" world. But is that a solution anyway?

If you are about "normative" in how you act as far as "traditional" female/male attributes go, and you are still attracted to the same sex. As long as intolerant children know that another child is attracted to the same sex, they will continue to bully. So it does go beyond, act less girly/manly, and the advice almost insinuates hide the fact that you are attracted to the same sex, and pretend that they are attracted to the opposite sex. Which is not healthy for the child to do at all.

 

[Oryx]

But in some cases, the child cannot help how they act. It's like if the school asked straight girls to be more masculine, or straight guys to where makeup and be in touch with their inner woman. For some gay/bi/transgender people, there personality doesn't conform to the "normative" world. But is that a solution anyway?

If you are about "normative" in how you act as far as "traditional" female/male attributes go, and you are still attracted to the same sex. As long as intolerant children know that another child is attracted to the same sex, they will continue to bully. So it does go beyond, act less girly/manly, and the advice almost insinuates hide the fact that you are attracted to the same sex, and pretend that they are attracted to the opposite sex. Which is not healthy for the child to do at all.

No, the advice insinuates not to make such a large deal about being attracted to the same sex that other people can pick you out as gay just by how you act and dress. If I was getting bullied for example for wearing guy's flannel, I wouldn't have much of a problem switching to more feminine shirts. I guess I don't really understand how wanting to dress differently can be such a part of someone that they feel as if they're suppressing themselves when they dress or act differently; it just seems contrary to other messages that are sent such as "don't judge a book by its cover" and the general message that what you wear doesn't define who you are.

You're still posting under the assumption that the bullying in question is based on their sexuality alone and would continue if their appearance was changed, while I'm basing my assumption on what the article said, that they were getting picked on for their appearance. Although mine does have a basis, we still really don't know either way.

 

[Esper]

I'm not talking about transgendered kids, and I know about their situation and I agree with you. I'm talking about the select few that exaggerate feminine behaviour (not transgendered kids obv).

What I was trying to say was that I wouldn't expect a bully to be able to distinguish between the "select few" gay guys and a trans girl. On the outside there are lots of similarities. The bully won't go: "Uh, sorry, didn't notice you were trans. Please go about your business while I pick on that girly gay kid." But would a teacher make that distinction? The "problem" is with kids being harassed for their appearances, but you can't just tell a trans kid to change their looks. I would hope that a teacher would not say: "Why don't you dress differently?" That's almost as bad as saying: "Don't be gay." It would show a whole lot of insensitivity. And they won't do it, either, which would be obvious to anyone who knows anything.

All I really mean to say is that just because this "advice" is "practical" for some kids who are being bullied, it's totally inappropriate advice to give to other students who are facing the exact same bullying so it's advice that applies only to some. If teachers aren't going to suggest something that would help any student in that situation (be they gay, trans, or just different) then those teachers ought to keep their mouths shut... and probably quit being teachers because they probably don't care enough about their kids to find a better solution.

 

[sims796]

What are teachers supposed to do though? Corporal punishment isn't allowed, teachers have absolutely no power anymore. All they can do is expel or exclude a student, and that doesn't solve the problem either. As a society we constantly complain about how teachers should not be too harsh on their students, and then when there's an issue we complain that they aren't dealing with it properly. It's easy to say they're doing something wrong; but nobody seems to be able to say what the right thing to do is.

It's not the duty of a teacher to shape the personality of a child, in fact it's near impossible for a teacher to do that. How many bullies have you known about that really gave a damn what the teacher told them? It's the role of the parent to teach children these things; but there's nothing to stop racist, ignorant, homophobes from having children, and they're not going to educate their kids about good values. The whole situation is the result of an underlying problem that doesn't seem to have any real solution.

It is the duty of the teacher to not dismiss things. It is their responsibility to handle school related issues in school.

Like it or not, bullying is starting to turn into a real problem now. If you want people to handle their own problems, then fine. It isn't unusual for those problems to be handled with a gun, a noose, or a razor blade. Give me five seconds, and I'll find stories on Google. There is literally no excuse for how the teacher handled it, as it shows gross insensitivity to the issue at hand (you go to a teacher to confide, and that is one way to have it broken). People here keeps popping up with their motivational stories about how they were bullied and snapped right out of it. It doesn't always work like that. Suicide via bullying is increasing at an alarming rate, and it's easy for it to spread - it isn't always heckling.

Though to be honest, the issue here isn't bullying in and of itself, which, apparently, we seem to be very dismissive of. It is the way the teacher responded, which is a good way to get fired. School is a place to learn, and it is the right for every child enrolled to get an education, unmolested. If a bullying problem is persisting, it is their job to intervine to the best of their abilities. If all they have is "act less gay", then maybe this is the wrong job.

There is a saying that goes, "life isn't fair."

This doesn't really address my post much, considering I was stating the same thing, in response to his "live a normal life" post (which, ironically, isn't possible for all because 'life isn't fair'). However, life being 'unfair' isn't much of an excuse. Life certainly isn't bleak, and if you want things like this to stop, you gotta get over that 'life is unfair' mentality. Life is only unfair when you lie down and take it.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I actually think fighting back is a great idea. We have a right to defend ourselves in this country. While deadly force obviously would be excessive, giving these bullies a good, old-fashioned, arse-whooping would teach them a thing or two.

 

[Zet]

I actually think fighting back is a great idea. We have a right to defend ourselves in this country. While deadly force obviously would be excessive, giving these bullies a good, old-fashioned, arse-whooping would teach them a thing or two.

Usually bullies are strong; that's why they're called bullies after all.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Usually bullies are strong; that's why they're called bullies after all.

I'd at least want to attempt to fight back, even if I end up losing in the end. If I was much weaker than my bully, I'd get a few friends together and jump him (or her).

 

[Nihilego]

Usually bullies are strong; that's why they're called bullies after all.

In my experience (and this is literally all I have to go on so I guess I'm just throwing it out there), the bullies are usually the ones with the sharp tongues as opposed to physical strength. I guess they come in both... uh, for lack of a better term, varieties, but so does everyone. Idk I wouldn't completely agree here BUT I'M BEING DIFFICULT DISREGARD ME.

I'm going to be completely honest here. Short of kicking students out, which most schools don't really like to do, there's not a great amount that teachers can do to stop bullies. Either the bully has to change or the bullied has to change. And, very unfortunately, it's usually the bullied because bullies tend to get some kinda weird twisted pleasure out of being bullies in the first place. While what the teachers in question said was probably wrong and definitely not politically correct, they have a point. If someone is being bullied for the sort of things mentioned in the OP... then maybe they should consider changing those things if the abuse they're getting from bullies is worse than the happiness brought to them by whatever those things are. I'm not trying to say that it's ok for the teachers to say what they said because it isn't. But, when

How many bullies have you known about that really gave a damn what the teacher told them?

is accurate imo, there's not much else that can be done other than to advise changing whatever's causing the problem. And while teachers shouldn't say these kind of things, they sometimes have to. The same way that people shouldn't be bullied for being what they want to be, bullies shouldn't be allowed to make people feel inferior for something that they chose to be, and whatever else. These are all bad things but realistically they all happen when they shouldn't. So I guess sometimes some harsh and somewhat unfair on the face of things advice needs to be given.

tl;dr, bullying sucks.

 

[chella182]

Haircuts and styles is a different matter because it was against our school rules to have crazy colours and stuff, so yeah. Do that and you're breaking the rules, so doing it is probably silly 'cause you'll get crap from the teachers as well as possibly being bullied.

The "act less gay" thing is unacceptable, though. Honestly. Like I remember their was a kid in our school who was... camp, for want of a better word, but he wasn't gay at all but he got teased about it. It was just who he was and how he acted. To tell him to "act less gay" would just be ridiculous. What constitutes "acting gay", anyway? It's just a stupid thing to say.

I know full well that most teachers can't deal with bullying though, I experienced this in school. They're more interested in making the situation go away (for them, not for the bullied) rather than actually solving it. And in my school they were reluctant to expell pupils because if they were expelled from our school, they couldn't go to the one up the road either. Even though some of them blatantly deserved to get kicked out. I can't believe more training in bullying isn't given to be honest. It's a problem every school has (my school claimed not to have a bullying problem... yeah right!) so every teacher should be equipped on some level to deal with it properly.

 

[Oryx]

Any animosity teachers show towards students is usually projection; they're not wanting the children they're guiding to become successful like they wished they had been. Also, being in school isn't that hard, it's actually quite easy in comparison to later life. The students in question should relish their reclined lifestyle, for it won't last long.

To be fair, this doesn't apply to everyone obviously. There are plenty of people that the worst and hardest part of their lives was dealing with the social issues in school.

 

[Azzurra]

To be fair, this doesn't apply to everyone obviously. There are plenty of people that the worst and hardest part of their lives was dealing with the social issues in school.

For most the population, it does apply. By implying that people can't get over what happened at school if they've been out of it for years (theoretically) you're also saying that they have undisclosed mental issues to boot.

If becoming socially redundant results from isolation at school, things have changed majorly since I've graduated.

 

[Exzessiva]

Usually bullies are strong; that's why they're called bullies after all.

Yeah I have encountered such strong bullies myself. During that time, it feels like "How the hell did I end up in a situation like this?". It's embarrassing to get surrounded or being rebuked or worst of all being hit by them.

In my school these things went unnoticed which really surprised me. Teachers may get a wind of such harrassments but would keep silent. That was really annoying. One of the reasons why they kept silent because the bullies comprised of their favorite students.

 

[Oryx]

For most the population, it does apply. By implying that people can't get over what happened at school if they've been out of it for years (theoretically) you're also saying that they have undisclosed mental issues to boot.

If becoming socially redundant results from isolation at school, things have changed majorly since I've graduated.

There are people who think school is easy and there are people who think high school is hard. There are people that have to work through school and get good grades. There are people that are black and go to a school in Tennessee. There are people with different experiences than you, and projecting your personal experiences in school onto other people doesn't mean that it's true. I'm not saying someone can't "get over it", I'm saying for some people it's much harder than when they graduate.

 

[Azzurra]

There are people who think school is easy and there are people who think high school is hard. There are people that have to work through school and get good grades. There are people that are black and go to a school in Tennessee. There are people with different experiences than you, and projecting your personal experiences in school onto other people doesn't mean that it's true. I'm not saying someone can't "get over it", I'm saying for some people it's much harder than when they graduate.

Using a stereotypical racist remark to back up your argument doesn't do you any favours. Sure, highschool is "hard" for some people, but they're emotionally weak and are the ones that end up pulling a Columbine. Look at Seung Hui Cho, for example. He had similar "bad" experiences and ended up killing a shitload of people for that reason, and that doesn't help validate your point, either.

 

[Oryx]

Using a sterotypical racist remark to back up your argument doesn't do you any favours. Sure, highschool is "hard" for some people, but they're emotionally weak and are the ones that end up pulling a Columbine. Look at Seung Hui Cho, for example. He had similar "bad" experiences and ended up killing a shitload of people for that reason, and that doesn't help validate your point, either.

The remark was implying that in general it's more difficult for minorities living in a state that's known to still hold on to some level of racism (If you'd like I can replace that with Texas where I have personal experience with it).

I think the difference between what you're saying and what I'm saying is that I'm not saying that people can't handle it, or anything about emotional states or what students to to deal with hardships. All I'm saying is that to assume that everyone has an easier time in school than they do in the real world is false and projecting your own experiences onto other people. I'm only objecting to the quote "being in school isn't that hard, it's actually quite easy in comparison to later life".