Best Wishes! and Double Standards...

[Aquacorde]

It does happen to be a fact that BW!Ash is disliked by a lot of fans- that is a fact about opinions, not an opinion in itself. Neither series was perfect, however, it is also true that the writing in DP was more consistent with what Pokémon had been before, and consistent within itself. While Ash was pretty much the same character as always from DP to BW, he did undergo significant changes- most notably, losing all maturity and previous experiences. Please provide counterarguments to Ash being different and discuss DP's flaws.

 

[Famon]

This is how I would handle BW Series--

-- The series start with Prof Oak & Prof Jenifer talking in the Phone . Prof Jenifer mention a ''Trouble Making Organization'' and her decision to send one of her Best Assistant to collect information about Unova Dragon But she's worry about safety .
Prof Oak recommend A Trainer to accompany her assistant which happen to be Ash.

-- Then The series move to Prof Jenifer assistant Tina (An Anime-exclusive character) who's going to Prof Jenifer lad and hear A Boy shouting ''Hello Unova , Ash from Unova is here''.

--Then Ash slips and fall on Tina .

--Tina got mad at Ash and Call him a Immature fool ! Then She drag about her being the Best Assistant of famous Prof Jenifer and how she going on a quest with a Powerful trainer from Kento whom she fantasize as a Handsome Cool trainer with Venusaur , Charizard , Blastoise and Raichu.

-- But at the lad , She find out that Ash will be one accompanying her in her journey. Her Fantasy about Handsome cool trainer is shattered to pieces .

-- Suddenly , A trio from Team Plasma attack Prof Jenifer lad to liberate the Lad Pokemon including the starter.

-- Tina got even more Furious when Ash tell her that he only got Pikachu.

-- However , Ash manage to come up with a plan and beat those ''Team Plasma Trio'' with the help of a Oshawott .

-- Tina accept Ash as her traveling companion for time being and still doubt him. Ash also got Oshawott in his team.

--However , He doesn't know a Mysterious man is watching him. The Person he later know as ''N''.

-- On their Travel , Ash come across a Braviry and throw a Pokeball at him . Tina tries to remind him that he has to weaken it first but she's too late.

-- However Ash accidentally throw the Pokeball to hard and it hit Braviry's weakspot (Like It eye) and cause it to bump into the Coconut tree behind it . Then A Coconut fall into Braviry's head and he passed out and the Pokeball successfully catch him.

-- Ash & Pikachu jump and Dance of the joy of the Successful capture While Tina is stunned . She mumble that She never seen or read Such Bizarre capture.

-- Then he & Tina meet Iris ! A wild girl just as wild as Ash and drive Tina nut.

--Ash & Iris has brief battle ! However , Before they should finish that battle , Both Ash & Iris pass out due to hunger resulting hilarious reaction from Tina.

-- Ash learn in Unova , Trainer can't directly challenge the Gym-Leader ! Trainer has to pass a hard ''Test'' first before challenging the Gym Leader.

--Ash later run into Chill who one of the striation Gym. Later Ash find out that Striation Gym has 3 Gym-leader Chill , Cilan and Cress

--Ash challenge them all together So Cilan propose a triple Battle which Ash wins.

--Chill later reveal that he's the weakest among his brothers So he want to travel with Ash to be stronger . Tina doesn't want that But Ash accept him

--As a Waiter , Chill is good at dealing with girls and often flirt with them.

Basically , My version of Best Wishs will follow a lot of ''Slapstick Comedy'' with Tina as the Straight-man of the show.
However , I won't turn Ash into Pathetic rookie and ditch important plot like Gym battle & Team Plasma.

 

[Poke425]

Judging by the comments on this forum, there were a lot of missed opportunities in Best Wishes.

 

[Aquacorde]

Judging by the comments on this forum, there were a lot of missed opportunities in Best Wishes.

Can you give some detail on that? Preferably your own opinions, or mention some that you agree with. Like, what particular opportunities did BW miss that you think would have helped the series overall?

 

[Famon]

Can you give some detail on that? Preferably your own opinions, or mention some that you agree with. Like, what particular opportunities did BW miss that you think would have helped the series overall?

You really want know ? Fine then--

-- 1) The First episode is ''To be Continued'' with Injured Pikachu unable to use Electric attack and about to get hit by Trip's Snivy's Leaf Tornado.

--2) In The Second Episode , Pikachu dough ''Leaf Tornado'' and finish Snivy off with a Iron tail .

--3) Then Pikachu passed out from the injury it suffer from Snivy when he tried to use Electric attack .

--4) Ash catch a ''Braviry'' instate of Pidove.

--5) Ash encountering A Beautiful girl with Servine as his main rival in the Series. Imagine her as Rika Nonoka (Digimon Tamer) of Pokemon.

--6) Ash win his 1st badge by defeating Striation Brother in a Triple Battle .

--7) Chill Join Ash instate of Cilan since he was weakest and had better reason for travel.

--8) Or Cilan will be the weakest Brother that join Ash in order to be stronger.

--9) Iris being treated like a real Wild Girl that mess around with other Instate off Acting like a mature girl.

--10) Iris doesn't refer other as Kids ! Instate She refer herself as a Kid when She mess around like a True Wild girl.

--11) The 2nd Battle Between Ash & Trip get interrupted by Team Rocket .

--12) Trip become ''Straight Man'' When it come to Ash Or Alder.

--13) Trip often wondering Why trainer like Ash & Alder are so strong without following basic .

So , Did you see How many chance BW series missed ??

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

You really want know ? Fine then--

-- 1) The First episode is ''To be Continued'' with Injured Pikachu unable to use Electric attack and about to get hit by Trip's Snivy's Leaf Tornado.

--2) In The Second Episode , Pikachu dough ''Leaf Tornado'' and finish Snivy off with a Iron tail .

--3) Then Pikachu passed out from the injury it suffer from Snivy when he tried to use Electric attack .

--4) Ash catch a ''Braviry'' instate of Pidove.

--5) Ash encountering A Beautiful girl with Servine as his main rival in the Series. Imagine her as Rika Nonoka (Digimon Tamer) of Pokemon.

--6) Ash win his 1st badge by defeating Striation Brother in a Triple Battle .

--7) Chill Join Ash instate of Cilan since he was weakest and had better reason for travel.

--8) Or Cilan will be the weakest Brother that join Ash in order to be stronger.

--9) Iris being treated like a real Wild Girl that mass around with other Instate off Acting like a mature girl.

--10) Iris doesn't refer other as Kids ! Instate She refer herself as a Kid when She mass around like a True Wild girl.

--11) The 2nd Battle Between Ash & Trip get interrupted by Team Rocket .

--12) Trip become ''Straight Man'' When it come to Ash Or Alder.

--13) Trip often wondering Why trainer like Ash & Alder are so strong without following basic .

So , Did you see How many chance BW series missed ??

You forgot to mention the Pokémon World Tournament, which even would give the perfect opportunity to at the very least give actual closure for a certain former redhead heroine.

 

[Famon]

You forgot to mention the Pokémon World Tournament, which even would give the perfect opportunity to at the very least give actual closure for a certain former redhead heroine.

If I write all the opportunity BW Series missed then it will take the whole Space of this Form .
So , I write some basic opportunity BW Series had from the beginning !!!

 

[Garchomp]

You forgot to mention the Pokémon World Tournament, which even would give the perfect opportunity to at the very least give actual closure for a certain former redhead heroine.

Or bring back any other old traveling companions, rivals, gym leaders, elite four members, or champions.

Spoiler:

You really want know ? Fine then--

-- 1) The First episode is ''To be Continued'' with Injured Pikachu unable to use Electric attack and about to get hit by Trip's Snivy's Leaf Tornado.

--2) In The Second Episode , Pikachu dough ''Leaf Tornado'' and finish Snivy off with a Iron tail .

--3) Then Pikachu passed out from the injury it suffer from Snivy when he tried to use Electric attack .

--4) Ash catch a ''Braviry'' instate of Pidove.

--5) Ash encountering A Beautiful girl with Servine as his main rival in the Series. Imagine her as Rika Nonoka (Digimon Tamer) of Pokemon.

--6) Ash win his 1st badge by defeating Striation Brother in a Triple Battle .

--7) Chill Join Ash instate of Cilan since he was weakest and had better reason for travel.

--8) Or Cilan will be the weakest Brother that join Ash in order to be stronger.

--9) Iris being treated like a real Wild Girl that mess around with other Instate off Acting like a mature girl.

--10) Iris doesn't refer other as Kids ! Instate She refer herself as a Kid when She mess around like a True Wild girl.

--11) The 2nd Battle Between Ash & Trip get interrupted by Team Rocket .

--12) Trip become ''Straight Man'' When it come to Ash Or Alder.

--13) Trip often wondering Why trainer like Ash & Alder are so strong without following basic .

So , Did you see How many chance BW series missed ??

The mod was definitely talking to someone else, unless you've got two accounts

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Or bring back any other old traveling companions, rivals, gym leaders, elite four members, or champions.

Yeah, correct. May have also given them an excuse to bring May and Max back as well, since their father, Norman, was a Gym Leader in Hoenn. And while Brock, unlike the games, is no longer a gym leader (Forrest is more likely to compete in that area than Brock), he could come to watch his brother participate. Probably the only one missing would be Tracey, and even then he's basically working for Oak so we can at least expect to see him whenever Ash calls Oak.

I'm not sure why Dawn should return, though, as she doesn't even have a relative who is a Gym Leader, not to mention Unova doesn't even have Pokémon Contests. At least with May, Max, Brock, and Misty, they are either Gym Leaders themselves or have a relative who is one, so their coming in can be explained easily.

 

[Lokesh Rahul]

In bw the disappointing thing was level reset , the pikachu which battled for 13 long seasons loses to snivy of a rookie trainer

 

[MG De Villiers]

Level Reset was a shame when a pikachu which has been with ash since last 13 seasons looses to a rookie's snivy, and other pokemon that ash catches in journey become stronger than pikachu.

Yeah, correct. May have also given them an excuse to bring May and Max back as well, since their father, Norman, was a Gym Leader in Hoenn. And while Brock, unlike the games, is no longer a gym leader (Forrest is more likely to compete in that area than Brock), he could come to watch his brother participate. Probably the only one missing would be Tracey, and even then he's basically working for Oak so we can at least expect to see him whenever Ash calls Oak.

I'm not sure why Dawn should return, though, as she doesn't even have a relative who is a Gym Leader, not to mention Unova doesn't even have Pokémon Contests. At least with May, Max, Brock, and Misty, they are either Gym Leaders themselves or have a relative who is one, so their coming in can be explained easily.

Or they might add ultimate Pokemon contest things which dawn wants to enter and meets ash in kalos that way and I don't think misty will ever make appearance, Brock might have a slight chance

 

[Bobbylicious]

I honestly don't understand half of what you're trying to say, and I'm pretty sure you don't even know what a double standard is because nothing you listed is a double standard, but here goes....

Here's a list of double standards for this series of the anime:

"Lilia (Iris) gets handed a Dragoran (Dragonite)!"

So Lucia (Dawn) didn't get handed a Togekiss or a speed-evolving Quiekel (Swinub)? Maike (May) didn't get handed an overpowered Schiggy (Squirtle) and Evoli (Eevee)? And Misty didn't get handed a Togepi even though she did NOTHING to deserve it? A case can even be made for Ash getting handed a Tauboga (Pidgeotto). Also, didn't most of Ash's Pokemon just follow him?

Dragonite =/= Togekiss =/= Swinub =/= Squirtle/Eevee =/= Togepi

Other than the point "Iris getting handed a Dragonite" I don't even get what you're saying, and Iris didn't get handed a "free" Dragonite, she earned it. Iris always dreamed of being a Dragon master, she took care of the Dragonite, listened to it when no one else would, and say it as a neutral persona instead of seeing it as the "bad guy". It makes total sense for Iris to receive the Dragonite, and if you're saying that it's "unfair" she got handed a free Dragonite, then bye. It fits 100% with her character and storyline, and develops her as a character. If you have a problem with Iris getting a "free" Dragonite, then it's a "you" problem, either a jealousy/bias towards Iris, or something completely different, but if you think it was "unfair" then you obviously don't know how characterization and development work, it fitted her to a T.
As for the rest, Togekiss was given to Dawn after proving herself as a coordinator.
Squirtle given to May to "promote" FireRed and LeafGreen (just like how Dawn for Cyndaquill for HGSS)
Swinub I don't even know what it's doing on the list, and Togepi saw Misty as it's mother, and was also a way to "promote" Johto.

"Benny (Cilan/Dent(o)) gets no development and is too fanservicey!"

Yes, he did. His time to shine was in the first half, while Lilia's was in the next half. Rocko got no development and no one complains about him as much. All he did was flirt and cook! And how is he more "Fanservicey" than some of the other characters I can name (Lucia, Maike, Misty)?

LOL. You really don't understand development at all. That is not development. Cilan was essentially a plot device. He had no storyline at all, he didn't have any dreams, and his "storyline" was basically ditched once he caught Stunfisk... Other than that, all he did was cook for the group, give information, and have the running gag - which are plot devices to advance Ash's storyline, and not his own. He had potential, but it was wasted.
I don't know how it's even possible to compare Cilan to Dawn/May/Misty - those three actually had progression in their storylines, the first two becoming coordinators (heck, even May changed her mind from doing gym battles to coordinating after realizing gym battles weren't her thing, how is that not development?), and Misty wanted to become a water Pokemon master - where her storyline basically ended once she caught Gyarados and became Gym Leader again.

"Ash regressed in BW when he was improving before!"

Because losing to a Karpador (Magikarp), struggling with a little girl's Voltilamm (Mareep), and "tying" with an Elekid (Ash saw it as a loss) is considered progress, right? People also say he's "back to his original strength" in XY, but a Scoppel (Bunnelby) that somebody just caught was kicking his ass before Team Rocket interfered, and let's not even bring up that he lost to them until Froxy (Froakie) popped up.

Yes, because this is a TV show for kids. The start of the Unova region/season was basically a "fresh start" (as with every region, excluding Johto). They striped back Ash to his basics to allow for the kids and new viewers of the show his progression as a trainer, to see him go from a noob trainer to a better one. This isn't a show that has an adult traget audience, of course they're going to dumb him down. It's just like in the back half of Unova, when Ash pulled out his PokeDex for Koffing/Charmander, us old school fans see it as dumb because he's encountered those Pokemon multiple times before - but to the target audience, they've never seen them, hence why this was done. Not to mention it's been however long since Ash last saw those Pokemon, so I mean, pulling out your PokeDex to get an UPDATED analysis makes sense.

"The humor in it is not funny!"

Not only is this wrong, but this applies to some of the other sagas too. Enton (Psyduck) stopped being funny when they kept relying on the headache gag to win, and by the Ash vs Misty battle in that Johto water tournament, it was just awful. Rocko getting dragged away stopped being funny after just a few times, his flirting was never funny, and do I even need to get started on Team Rocket? And that's only Johto; I haven't even gotten started on the others!

Running Gag =/= Funny
The running gags (Brock flirting, Muk jumping Ash, Cilan's "IT"S EVALUATING TIME" Iris' "UR SUCH A KID" is a running gag, not humor. Yes, the gags might compensate for humor, but the gags aren't humor themselves. The gags basically serve as a purpose, to once again, amuse the target audience (who are children), and yes, children do find that type of thing funny. I remember watching Pokemon when I was younger, eagerly anticipating which girl Brock would fall for that episode, and would ultimately end up disappointed when he didn't. Of course, as an adult that part of the show doesn't amuse me much anymore, simply because I grew out of it. I find the more non intentional adult diminuendos to be more humorous than anything.

"Lilia calls him a little kid too much, she should respect him!"

Yet no one says anything about Lucia's "No need to worry"? Also, one of the first things Paul said about him in the first Ash vs Paul battle was, "You talk like a little kid." Also he called him "pathetic" a lot of times! Also, TR calls him "twerp" - which is an insult - in almost every episode, but no one cares. And why should she respect him when he's only shown her idiocy? Many say that she would be put in her place by DP Ash, but he wasn't all that mature either.

THIS IS FINALLY A DOUBLE STANDARD THANK THE LOOOOORD
To be fair though, I think the main reason Iris' "Little Kid" gag is annoying is because her voice is kinda irritating. I personally don't have a problem with it, but I can see how others can. Team Rocket calling him a "twerp" is definitely on the same level as Iris calling him a "little kid", but I think Team Rocket fly under the radar is because they don't have annoying voices.

"Team Rocket are boring and robotic!"

People seem to be under the impression that serious is the same as robotic. How do people act at work? Exactly.

I honestly don't even understand what this point is trying to prove or disprove? Team Rocket are robotic. Robotic refers to basally being a robot, and doing the demands of people over and over and over and over. Up until Unova they were robotic as hell, doing the exact same thing every episode. That's robotic.

"The rivals were badly written!"

Other than them not getting closure, I disagree. Everyone loves Paul but he wasn't "well written" or even good. All the writers did was take the GS rival and combine his worst traits into one. That's NOT character. Drew was just boring, especially in his first appearances where he was just green haired Gary but a little less calm. Tobias was a generic "champion" with legendary Pokemon even though that goes against everything Pokemon has stood for, Kenny was boring and only served to be Lucia's childhood friend. See the problem? Most rivals prior to BW are either lamer versions of already existing characters or generic.

Only the Unova rivals were badly written. There were too many for the writers to keep track of, so none of them got decent storylines, or the chance to develop. Paul was really well written. And so were all of May's and Dawn's rivals. I may have found them boring (especially Kenny), but that doesn't mean they were badly written.
And Tobias is not a rival of anyone so I don't know why you included him...

"Ottaro was so lame, he was just a marketing tool!"

What about Lucia's Plinfa (Pochama)? Or Misty's Togepi before it evolved in AG, long after Misty left? Or even Enton for that matter?

He was. I don't know how/why you're comparing him to Psyduck?? Those two are completely unrelated. Togepi was a marketing tool, along with Ho-Oh, they were basically saying "hey, don't forget Pokemon, there's more to come!"

"Ash didn't evolve enough Pokemon!"

The series has shown that evolution isn't everything. In every other series, at least one Pokemon remained unevolved.

Agree. I don't care about evolution. I would like to see some of his Pokemon evolve, but if they don't it really doesn't bother me.

"The movies are just about legendaries fighting!"

All of DP's movies except for the last one involve legendary Pokemon battling in some way. And it's not like it was the main focus of the plot.[/QUOTE]
Who cares? The movies are non-canon anyway.

"The opening for Episode N had Glurak fighting Reshiram but it never happened!"

What about Panferno (Infernape) VS. Entei from one of the DP openings? Or the legendary birds all together? Or Bamelin (Buizel) VS. Darkrai from the same intro? When did those happen? Many people argue that BW fed us "false promises", especially with the "Let's Join Hands" ending, but one of the DP openings showed Misty but she didn't appear, and the Japanese Adventures in the Orange Islands intro showed some of the rivals of Kanto, but they never showed up, either.

Again, who cares? The openings are almost as non-canon as the movies, too.

"There's too much stock footage!"

That's when I'm convinced you haven't watched any other series. Every series has stock footage, even XY just replace speed line backgrounds with the environment.

It's just modern technology. I don't see the issue.

"Ash's Pokemon team is shafted!"

So is Ash's team of Froxy (Froakie), Dartiri (Fletchling), and Pikachu in XY, even though there's only THREE of them, as opposed to BW's ten. In Johto, Skaraborn (Heracross) was shafted. I can go on, but I won't.

The writers know which Pokemon sit well with the audience, and which don't. Obviously they're going to put more effort into the ones the audience enjoy than the ones they don't care for - it's how everything works. I don't see the problem here, it happens in every TV show.

"His Pokemon are all bland except Palpitoad (Mebrana)!"

Describe Tauros, Kingler, or Sleimok (Muk). Or Karnimani (Totodile) outside of dancing. Feurigel (Cyndaquil) also didn't have much to it other than its initial problem of taking a while to get its flames going. Noctuh (Noctowl) had some personality in its debut episode but then in every other appearance, it became just Team Rocket balloon popper #2.

Don't even know what this is about Ash's team is not "bland" one bit.

"Ash had to use a full team to beat three of Mica's Pokemon!"

He had to use three Pokemon to beat two of Lino's (Grant's) in XY. And in Johto, he had to use three of his Pokemon just to beat Whitney's (Bianka's) ONE Miltank. What's the difference? Oh, yeah, in BW, there was buildup to Mica being this awesome gym leader, and Ash wanted to use three as well, but Mica insisted on her rules. In Johto, there was nothing like that, Bianka just made it easier for him after she beat him the first time. In XY, no buildup either, just Lino explaining his ruleset and Ash agreeing without hesitation.

This is called reset development.

"But what about the time he lost to an idiot with 5 Pokemon?"

Morrison almost beat him with 4 Pokemon (remember that his first two Pokemon lost without any fight-back), reducing it to 4 vs 6 in Ash's favor.

??????????????????????????????

"Trip is a ripoff of Paul!"

Did any of you watch past the first episode? He becomes his own character a few episodes in. And if Diaz (Trip) really is a ripoff... what does that make Paul? Paul himself is a ripoff of the GS Rival. Seriously. They just combined his worst traits to make Paul. That's not character.

No. They're completely different. Paul and Trip are totally different. Trip is just ignorant, where as Paul has little to no respect for Pokemon. They're definitely similar, but they are in no way "rip offs". And no, calling Paul a rip off of the GS Rival is BS. He may be based off the Rival but it's not a rip off...

"Ash is such an idiot in Best Wishes!, he was smarter then and is smarter now."

"The Geckarbor and Their Home" (AG007): Ash tries to catch a Geckarbor without first weakening it, Maike even calls him out on it.
"Stubborn as a Pokemon" (DP006): After he consults the Pokedex about Damhirplex (Stantler) and its hypnosis powers, guess what he does after another one pops up? Looks...
"A Blustery Santalune Gym Battle!" (XY005): Even though he fought on ice fields at least once every region, he has so much trouble with this one, and I'm not even going to start on the over-dramatic scene that followed it.

Like I already mentioned, this is a show for kids. They dumb him down every region to account for the new audience, and let him mentor them. If you have a problem with it, it's because you yourself are "too old" for the TV show. It doesn't target you, it targets children.

"The Einall (Unova) League sucked!"

I'm not going to really argue this one seeing as it left much to be desired in comparison to the other tournaments of BW. But Hoenn's League was unremarkable. It had good battles but without any rivals besides Morrison and Tyson, there was no real reason to invest in it so having good battles won no points for me. Kanto's League was good in the beginning but sucked when Ash vs. Richie was announced. Sinnoh's League had Tobias. Johto's was actually pretty good and only got better so I'd say that's the best one.

I wouldn't say the Unova League sucked, but it was lacking in comparison. It really bored me. When I watched, all I could think was about "omg can this 30523 episode long arc be over already"



TL;DR - at the end of the day, this is a TV show targeted at kids. Obviously they're not going to keep everything the same to account for the adult audience, which is nowhere as big as the kid audience. This is why Ash is always perceived as a goof and never gets "smarter" because he's a mentor Pokemon Trainer for children, not adults. If you're an adult and watching the show, either disregard logic, or get over it.
Also my post sounds really *****y but that's not the vibe I'm trying to give off so sorry if you feel that.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I honestly don't understand half of what you're trying to say, and I'm pretty sure you don't even know what a double standard is because nothing you listed is a double standard, but here goes....


Dragonite =/= Togekiss =/= Swinub =/= Squirtle/Eevee =/= Togepi

Other than the point "Iris getting handed a Dragonite" I don't even get what you're saying, and Iris didn't get handed a "free" Dragonite, she earned it. Iris always dreamed of being a Dragon master, she took care of the Dragonite, listened to it when no one else would, and say it as a neutral persona instead of seeing it as the "bad guy". It makes total sense for Iris to receive the Dragonite, and if you're saying that it's "unfair" she got handed a free Dragonite, then bye. It fits 100% with her character and storyline, and develops her as a character. If you have a problem with Iris getting a "free" Dragonite, then it's a "you" problem, either a jealousy/bias towards Iris, or something completely different, but if you think it was "unfair" then you obviously don't know how characterization and development work, it fitted her to a T.
As for the rest, Togekiss was given to Dawn after proving herself as a coordinator.
Squirtle given to May to "promote" FireRed and LeafGreen (just like how Dawn for Cyndaquill for HGSS)
Swinub I don't even know what it's doing on the list, and Togepi saw Misty as it's mother, and was also a way to "promote" Johto.


LOL. You really don't understand development at all. That is not development. Cilan was essentially a plot device. He had no storyline at all, he didn't have any dreams, and his "storyline" was basically ditched once he caught Stunfisk... Other than that, all he did was cook for the group, give information, and have the running gag - which are plot devices to advance Ash's storyline, and not his own. He had potential, but it was wasted.
I don't know how it's even possible to compare Cilan to Dawn/May/Misty - those three actually had progression in their storylines, the first two becoming coordinators (heck, even May changed her mind from doing gym battles to coordinating after realizing gym battles weren't her thing, how is that not development?), and Misty wanted to become a water Pokemon master - where her storyline basically ended once she caught Gyarados and became Gym Leader again.


Yes, because this is a TV show for kids. The start of the Unova region/season was basically a "fresh start" (as with every region, excluding Johto). They striped back Ash to his basics to allow for the kids and new viewers of the show his progression as a trainer, to see him go from a noob trainer to a better one. This isn't a show that has an adult traget audience, of course they're going to dumb him down. It's just like in the back half of Unova, when Ash pulled out his PokeDex for Koffing/Charmander, us old school fans see it as dumb because he's encountered those Pokemon multiple times before - but to the target audience, they've never seen them, hence why this was done. Not to mention it's been however long since Ash last saw those Pokemon, so I mean, pulling out your PokeDex to get an UPDATED analysis makes sense.


Running Gag =/= Funny
The running gags (Brock flirting, Muk jumping Ash, Cilan's "IT"S EVALUATING TIME" Iris' "UR SUCH A KID" is a running gag, not humor. Yes, the gags might compensate for humor, but the gags aren't humor themselves. The gags basically serve as a purpose, to once again, amuse the target audience (who are children), and yes, children do find that type of thing funny. I remember watching Pokemon when I was younger, eagerly anticipating which girl Brock would fall for that episode, and would ultimately end up disappointed when he didn't. Of course, as an adult that part of the show doesn't amuse me much anymore, simply because I grew out of it. I find the more non intentional adult diminuendos to be more humorous than anything.


THIS IS FINALLY A DOUBLE STANDARD THANK THE LOOOOORD
To be fair though, I think the main reason Iris' "Little Kid" gag is annoying is because her voice is kinda irritating. I personally don't have a problem with it, but I can see how others can. Team Rocket calling him a "twerp" is definitely on the same level as Iris calling him a "little kid", but I think Team Rocket fly under the radar is because they don't have annoying voices.


I honestly don't even understand what this point is trying to prove or disprove? Team Rocket are robotic. Robotic refers to basally being a robot, and doing the demands of people over and over and over and over. Up until Unova they were robotic as hell, doing the exact same thing every episode. That's robotic.


Only the Unova rivals were badly written. There were too many for the writers to keep track of, so none of them got decent storylines, or the chance to develop. Paul was really well written. And so were all of May's and Dawn's rivals. I may have found them boring (especially Kenny), but that doesn't mean they were badly written.
And Tobias is not a rival of anyone so I don't know why you included him...


He was. I don't know how/why you're comparing him to Psyduck?? Those two are completely unrelated. Togepi was a marketing tool, along with Ho-Oh, they were basically saying "hey, don't forget Pokemon, there's more to come!"


Agree. I don't care about evolution. I would like to see some of his Pokemon evolve, but if they don't it really doesn't bother me.

"The movies are just about legendaries fighting!"

All of DP's movies except for the last one involve legendary Pokemon battling in some way. And it's not like it was the main focus of the plot."
Who cares? The movies are non-canon anyway.


Again, who cares? The openings are almost as non-canon as the movies, too.


It's just modern technology. I don't see the issue.


The writers know which Pokemon sit well with the audience, and which don't. Obviously they're going to put more effort into the ones the audience enjoy than the ones they don't care for - it's how everything works. I don't see the problem here, it happens in every TV show.


Don't even know what this is about Ash's team is not "bland" one bit.


This is called reset development.


??????????????????????????????


No. They're completely different. Paul and Trip are totally different. Trip is just ignorant, where as Paul has little to no respect for Pokemon. They're definitely similar, but they are in no way "rip offs". And no, calling Paul a rip off of the GS Rival is BS. He may be based off the Rival but it's not a rip off...


Like I already mentioned, this is a show for kids. They dumb him down every region to account for the new audience, and let him mentor them. If you have a problem with it, it's because you yourself are "too old" for the TV show. It doesn't target you, it targets children.


I wouldn't say the Unova League sucked, but it was lacking in comparison. It really bored me. When I watched, all I could think was about "omg can this 30523 episode long arc be over already"



TL;DR - at the end of the day, this is a TV show targeted at kids. Obviously they're not going to keep everything the same to account for the adult audience, which is nowhere as big as the kid audience. This is why Ash is always perceived as a goof and never gets "smarter" because he's a mentor Pokemon Trainer for children, not adults. If you're an adult and watching the show, either disregard logic, or get over it.
Also my post sounds really *****y but that's not the vibe I'm trying to give off so sorry if you feel that.

You're actually aiding DetectiveBenny in this post.

However, to address your points.

2. Agree with you for the most part, save for the bit about Misty's storyline ending (In her revisits, she gave the implication that she'd rather continue her journey than be a Gym Leader, especially in Battle Frontier where she deliberately delayed returning for quite a while until Daisy basically forced her to return). Also, Misty already was a Gym Leader (heck, she told Ash such in Waterflowers of Cerulean City), so she didn't "become it" again, and unlike Gary Oak or even Brock, she never actually changed her goal willingly (let me also point out that being a Gym Leader =/= becoming a Water Pokémon Master).

3. Yeah, but did he REALLY need to regress to such an extent that he lost to a trainer who was literally just starting out? It just made him look as bad as Team Rocket in "Ash Catches a Pokémon." Besides, it would be good to actually SHOW Ash beating Trip to give audiences a taste that he's a skilled trainer, NOT a wuss. And besides, just because Trip is supposed to be Ash's rival doesn't mean he needs to be beaten the first time around by them. He could make a rival by, you know, actually beating them for a change (think Goku and Vegeta, or Goku and Piccolo). At least with Paul, it was hinted even in the first episode that Sinnoh was NOT his first region even if it was where he was from, even before his evolved starter made its debut.

6. I didn't like Team Rocket's characterization in AG or DP, since they more or less just got in the way and barely contributed to anything (I mean, honestly, if they're going to be the recurring villains, couldn't they at least make sure to actually MAKE them a genuine threat rather than a mere annoyance? Comic relief's one thing, but even most comic relief villains like Kefka Palazzo or the Joker or Bowser or, heck, even Gaston from Beauty and the Beast actually proved themselves to be genuine threats.), but BW basically butchered their trying to make them serious villains by making their plots be even more nonsensical (like the infamous Meowth Double Agent arc. Honestly, writers, couldn't you just give some hints from Meowth that he actually was faking it all along, even if it's an aside glance to the viewer?).

7. Yeah, at least none of the rivals were either total idiots rivaling (pun not intended) even Ash's idiocy in Unova (honestly, fresh start or not, Ash being depicted the way he was in Unova was just stupid. Even AG and DP at least gave an indication that he actually WAS experienced), nor were they literally just starting out.

9.5 Actually, the movies ARE canon (heck, not only did they directly reference the events of Movie 2 during the Whirl Islands, but Drew's hometown was also a movie-only location, and Dawn's Lunar Wing that she purchased in Movie 10 even made an appearance in a later episode, also involving Darkrai. That's not even getting into Ash possessing Aura in DP, of which the first time he was shown to know Aura was in Movie 8. This isn't like Dragonball Z where they directly adapt the mangas and more often than not mean movies aren't canon to the manga.).

17. Yes, except even for that, they still dumbed him down way too much. I didn't like AG or DP anymore than the other people liked BW (and for the record, I didn't like BW, either), yet even those shows at least actually had Ash seem like he knew what he was doing most of the time regarding battling. Ash came across as completely idiotic in BW even for character resets (when's the last time Ash mistook a human being [Iris] for an Axew despite their clearly being different? Not even in Kanto, where his mistakes are at least justifiable for his being a rookie at the time, did he come across as THAT stupid).

And one last bit, when the writers are actually losing ratings (October's overall ratings are about 4.3, which even for DP and AG was horrible, and most certainly below average.) largely because of how they are idiotically writing the plot (honestly, a lot of Disney films and animated shows were far better written than BW, DP or AG were, and those were largely geared towards kids. Heck, Beast Wars: Transformers was far better written than those shows were, and like Pokémon it was geared towards children), in other words, there are far less children watching it than EVEN adults, That should tell you just how bad it actually was.

 

[Bobbylicious]

You're actually aiding DetectiveBenny in this post.

Honestly, I don't care if I "aided" them or not, I was not attacking them, or their opinions in any way, my main point of posting was to share my views.

2. Agree with you for the most part, save for the bit about Misty's storyline ending (In her revisits, she gave the implication that she'd rather continue her journey than be a Gym Leader, especially in Battle Frontier where she deliberately delayed returning for quite a while until Daisy basically forced her to return). Also, Misty already was a Gym Leader (heck, she told Ash such in Waterflowers of Cerulean City), so she didn't "become it" again, and unlike Gary Oak or even Brock, she never actually changed her goal willingly (let me also point out that being a Gym Leader =/= becoming a Water Pokémon Master).

Never watched the Battle Frontier series so I didn't know about that (not because I don't want to watch it, I've just never gotten around to it). But IMO, I think that being the gym leader does, to an extent, count as a water Pokemon master. And as I mentioned before, part of her arc was pretty much complete once she caught a Gyarados. Heck, she even went from catching a Psyduck (a water Pokemon), that she hated, and eventually started caring for it, and understood it's true power. If that doesn't at least count towards being a water Pokemon master, then I don't know what does.
But like I said, I've not see the BF series, so maybe after I see that, my views in respect to Misty and her storyline may change, but right now, I'm pretty A-OK with my views.

3. Yeah, but did he REALLY need to regress to such an extent that he lost to a trainer who was literally just starting out? It just made him look as bad as Team Rocket in "Ash Catches a Pokémon." Besides, it would be good to actually SHOW Ash beating Trip to give audiences a taste that he's a skilled trainer, NOT a wuss. And besides, just because Trip is supposed to be Ash's rival doesn't mean he needs to be beaten the first time around by them. He could make a rival by, you know, actually beating them for a change (think Goku and Vegeta, or Goku and Piccolo). At least with Paul, it was hinted even in the first episode that Sinnoh was NOT his first region even if it was where he was from, even before his evolved starter made its debut.

I 100% understand this point, and it was something I also took into account in my first post, but going in with an open mind, and an unbiased opinion, yes, they did need to dumb him down. I mean, yes, it was a poor decision, but it was a decision none the less to allow the new viewers of the show to watch Ash grow as a person. Not to mention, Unova being a region that has no Pokemon other than Unova Pokemon unique to it (pre BW2 interval, as mentioned at the start of the series iirc?), it works as a metaphor - a fresh start for a completely new region.
And yeah, I'd actually love to see a "reversed" Rival for Ash, one that Ash is better than, instead of it being a trainer better than him, but *shrugs* what can I do?

6. I didn't like Team Rocket's characterization in AG or DP, since they more or less just got in the way and barely contributed to anything (I mean, honestly, if they're going to be the recurring villains, couldn't they at least make sure to actually MAKE them a genuine threat rather than a mere annoyance? Comic relief's one thing, but even most comic relief villains like Kefka Palazzo or the Joker or Bowser or, heck, even Gaston from Beauty and the Beast actually proved themselves to be genuine threats.), but BW basically butchered their trying to make them serious villains by making their plots be even more nonsensical (like the infamous Meowth Double Agent arc. Honestly, writers, couldn't you just give some hints from Meowth that he actually was faking it all along, even if it's an aside glance to the viewer?)

I get you. I actually liked Team Rockets AG/DP development (more so in DP than AG). But I agree, I do think Team Rocket got ****ed over in the BW series (not relevant, but since you mentioned it, I actually enjoyed the Meowth/Double Agent arc, I found it interesting)

9.5 Actually, the movies ARE canon (heck, not only did they directly reference the events of Movie 2 during the Whirl Islands, but Drew's hometown was also a movie-only location, and Dawn's Lunar Wing that she purchased in Movie 10 even made an appearance in a later episode, also involving Darkrai. That's not even getting into Ash possessing Aura in DP, of which the first time he was shown to know Aura was in Movie 8. This isn't like Dragonball Z where they directly adapt the mangas and more often than not mean movies aren't canon to the manga.).

Ok yeah, you're right. I was actually going to include the Luna Wing in my original post, before I decided to not worry about that tangent and just go ahead and say that they're not really Canon. My main point was to say that nothing "major" ever happens in the movies that actually affects the TV series.

17. Yes, except even for that, they still dumbed him down way too much. I didn't like AG or DP anymore than the other people liked BW (and for the record, I didn't like BW, either), yet even those shows at least actually had Ash seem like he knew what he was doing most of the time regarding battling. Ash came across as completely idiotic in BW even for character resets (when's the last time Ash mistook a human being [Iris] for an Axew despite their clearly being different? Not even in Kanto, where his mistakes are at least justifiable for his being a rookie at the time, did he come across as THAT stupid).

I honestly didn't enjoy the BW series either, it was probably my least favorite series. I see the Iris/Axew thing, but I honestly thought that was funny. Maybe because I don't watch this show as a hardcore fan, and I just watch it to chill out, so I don't really have an opinion on all the fan problems, but like I said, this is a show for id after all.

And one last bit, when the writers are actually losing ratings (October's overall ratings are about 4.3, which even for DP and AG was horrible, and most certainly below average.) largely because of how they are idiotically writing the plot (honestly, a lot of Disney films and animated shows were far better written than BW, DP or AG were, and those were largely geared towards kids. Heck, Beast Wars: Transformers was far better written than those shows were, and like Pokémon it was geared towards children), in other words, there are far less children watching it than EVEN adults, That should tell you just how bad it actually was.

With all due respect, I find it incredibly hard to believe the show has more adult viewers that children... But what do I know? Like I said, I just watch this show casually, I'm not a hardcore fan.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Never watched the Battle Frontier series so I didn't know about that (not because I don't want to watch it, I've just never gotten around to it). But IMO, I think that being the gym leader does, to an extent, count as a water Pokemon master. And as I mentioned before, part of her arc was pretty much complete once she caught a Gyarados. Heck, she even went from catching a Psyduck (a water Pokemon), that she hated, and eventually started caring for it, and understood it's true power. If that doesn't at least count towards being a water Pokemon master, then I don't know what does.
But like I said, I've not see the BF series, so maybe after I see that, my views in respect to Misty and her storyline may change, but right now, I'm pretty A-OK with my views.

Well, you won't have to look very far, because the arc in question was right at the start of the Battle Frontier (starting with the episode that Ash gets back to Pallet Town after fighting Agatha, in fact).

As far as your points, true, but on the other hand, a Water Pokémon Master is not at the level of being a Gym Leader. In fact, it's strongly implied in the show that the trainer needs to at least be Elite 4 level, if not Champion level to actually qualify as such, and that's just getting into battle prowess and ignoring other factors such as studying all types of Water Pokémon, meeting legendaries, and the like. Besides, your reasoning is sort of like stating Ash could become a Pokémon Master just by becoming a Gym Leader, which not even most hardcore fans would agree with you there.

I 100% understand this point, and it was something I also took into account in my first post, but going in with an open mind, and an unbiased opinion, yes, they did need to dumb him down. I mean, yes, it was a poor decision, but it was a decision none the less to allow the new viewers of the show to watch Ash grow as a person. Not to mention, Unova being a region that has no Pokemon other than Unova Pokemon unique to it (pre BW2 interval, as mentioned at the start of the series iirc?), it works as a metaphor - a fresh start for a completely new region.
And yeah, I'd actually love to see a "reversed" Rival for Ash, one that Ash is better than, instead of it being a trainer better than him, but *shrugs* what can I do?

I know Generation 5 did a full restart by not including any Pokémon of prior generations, but the fact that they included Ash and Pikachu, heck, Team Rocket kind of ruined the whole "fresh restart" concept, since the entire point of a fresh restart is that absolutely nothing of the previous generations can be included (think the whole Raikou special where they had a completely new cast and absolutely no references to Ash and his group. That came far closer to an actual fresh restart than the BW anime did). Had it been me who wrote that anime, I would have made sure Ash and Pikachu, heck, Team Rocket as well, were NOT included in the Anime specifically BECAUSE the show required a fresh restart and a clean slate.

I get you. I actually liked Team Rockets AG/DP development (more so in DP than AG). But I agree, I do think Team Rocket got ****ed over in the BW series (not relevant, but since you mentioned it, I actually enjoyed the Meowth/Double Agent arc, I found it interesting)

I really didn't like Team Rocket's development in AG or DP (like I said, if they're going to be the recurring main villains of the series, they actually need to be treated as serious credible threats, and I don't mean the hatchetjob attempt in BW, I mean being extremely competent at their villainy, not simply being jokes who are too pathetic to even be threats), but I can tolerate their appearances in AG and DP more than in BW where they did a poor job even attempting to make them credible threats.

Ok yeah, you're right. I was actually going to include the Luna Wing in my original post, before I decided to not worry about that tangent and just go ahead and say that they're not really Canon. My main point was to say that nothing "major" ever happens in the movies that actually affects the TV series.

I guess you have a point there.

I honestly didn't enjoy the BW series either, it was probably my least favorite series. I see the Iris/Axew thing, but I honestly thought that was funny. Maybe because I don't watch this show as a hardcore fan, and I just watch it to chill out, so I don't really have an opinion on all the fan problems, but like I said, this is a show for id after all.

Yeah, no kidding. If it tops AG as being the worst series ever, at least on my list, you definitely know BW was terrible (honestly, at least AG had the Battle Frontier to make up for Ash not doing better than in Johto, and even the Hoenn League, while a terrible outcome, at least had Ash staying at his rank rather than, you know, basically dropping in rank). And my main problem with that is that it made Ash seem extremely stupid (like I said, even Indigo League Ash wasn't that stupid, and he had a lot of problems in that region).

With all due respect, I find it incredibly hard to believe the show has more adult viewers that children... But what do I know? Like I said, I just watch this show casually, I'm not a hardcore fan.

What I was intending to imply with that statement is that the Pokémon Anime has a dangerously low amount of viewers, especially those who are the target demographic. I know Japan has a bit of a shortage in babymaking right now, but even that isn't severe enough for a 4.3 rating.

 

[DBZ fan]

Never watched the Battle Frontier series so I didn't know about that (not because I don't want to watch it, I've just never gotten around to it). But IMO, I think that being the gym leader does, to an extent, count as a water Pokemon master. And as I mentioned before, part of her arc was pretty much complete once she caught a Gyarados. Heck, she even went from catching a Psyduck (a water Pokemon), that she hated, and eventually started caring for it, and understood it's true power. If that doesn't at least count towards being a water Pokemon master, then I don't know what does.
But like I said, I've not see the BF series, so maybe after I see that, my views in respect to Misty and her storyline may change, but right now, I'm pretty A-OK with my views.

Not trying to get in debate or anything but to add on what weedle_mchairybug said being gym leader has nothing to do with becoming water pokemon master.

I actually made thread few months ago called "Secrets, truth and misconceptions about Misty water master goal" offering known info of what her dreams showed to entail.

Ill just say this:

Spoiler:

While gym experience helped Misty in getting Gyarados, becoming stronger water trainer by training her pokemon battling others and increasing her knowledge at end of the day that alone simply dont cut it.
Tournaments like Whirl Cup. Fact that Misty was already gym leader before joining Ash leaving it to pursue water master dream returning back to Cerulean out of necessity and sisters incompetence clearly even saying how they are main reason behind staying in chronicles expressing desire to leave. Accompanied with Misty idolizing E4 Lorelei wanting to become strong and honored like her proving why water pokemon master is title completely independent from gym leader occupation with there existing tasks and procedure required to fulfill to gain this.
Water pokemon master entails becoming ill cite Misty words strongest water trainer in world(best water experts are E4 like Siebold, Lorelei or champions like Wallace).

Ability to use water pokemon to full potential , understand their feelings and secrets. Considerng how Misty has hard time with Psyduck, how there is left lot of work to do with her pokemon overcoming weakness against electric and grass types. How Misty didnt learn to mega evolve her pokemon(like Gyarados) with mega evolution being epitome of pokemon and trainer strong bond learning how to unlock their full power.

Along with not winning prestigue water tournaments to make name for yourself in world among other water specialists to be considered as material for water master according to sea priestess Maya with Whirl Cup being first step which was also unfulfilled being stop by Trinity who made Misty reralize after defeat how she still has long way to go.

Shows how Misty well didnt came even close to water master title so far. With her story remaining unfinished and waiting for resolution when and if that day ever comes.

 

[Bobbylicious]

Not trying to get in debate or anything but to add on what weedle_mchairybug said being gym leader has nothing to do with becoming water pokemon master.

I actually made thread few months ago called "Secrets, truth and misconceptions about Misty water master goal" offering known info of what her dreams showed to entail.

Ill just say this:

Spoiler:

While gym experience helped Misty in getting Gyarados, becoming stronger water trainer by training her pokemon battling others and increasing her knowledge at end of the day that alone simply dont cut it.
Tournaments like Whirl Cup. Fact that Misty was already gym leader before joining Ash leaving it to pursue water master dream returning back to Cerulean out of necessity and sisters incompetence clearly even saying how they are main reason behind staying in chronicles expressing desire to leave. Accompanied with Misty idolizing E4 Lorelei wanting to become strong and honored like her proving why water pokemon master is title completely independent from gym leader occupation with there existing tasks and procedure required to fulfill to gain this.
Water pokemon master entails becoming ill cite Misty words strongest water trainer in world(best water experts are E4 like Siebold, Lorelei or champions like Wallace).

Ability to use water pokemon to full potential , understand their feelings and secrets. Considerng how Misty has hard time with Psyduck, how there is left lot of work to do with her pokemon overcoming weakness against electric and grass types. How Misty didnt learn to mega evolve her pokemon(like Gyarados) with mega evolution being epitome of pokemon and trainer strong bond learning how to unlock their full power.

Along with not winning prestigue water tournaments to make name for yourself in world among other water specialists to be considered as material for water master according to sea priestess Maya with Whirl Cup being first step which was also unfulfilled being stop by Trinity who made Misty reralize after defeat how she still has long way to go.

Shows how Misty well didnt came even close to water master title so far. With her story remaining unfinished and waiting for resolution when and if that day ever comes.

Not a debate, opinions are welcomed :)

But idk, I get what you're saying, but in my eyes, at least, I see Misty has already fulfilled her goals.

 

[DBZ fan]

Not a debate, opinions are welcomed :)

But idk, I get what you're saying, but in my eyes, at least, I see Misty has already fulfilled her goals.

Fair enough. Although i guess with me you could say i never relied on persona interpretations and headcannons. Im mostly relying on facts, what was present through canon and dialogues regarding Misty character, way writers portrayed her situation, circumstances and what her goals entailed.

So in my book based on what is known about Misty dreams and how uncleared and unanswered writers left several things about her future and water dreams, i came to conclusion how her story didnt met closure.

Spoiler:

(aside from goal, some would say in this domain can be put romantic feelings for Ash she had,personal fear and flaws like judging pokemon by looks rather than inner strength originating from fear from bugs(like unorthodoxly designed ones which might freak her out like Binnacle or Surskit coming to cognition how is part bug evolving in bug). Standing in her way of becoming true water expert with no negative feelings toward any pokemn of specie she likes.
Not setting up in what direction her story will go regarding whole issue with older siblings and Cerulean and whether she will go to journey to become stronger trainer, try win this time prestigue water tournaments and possibly become E4 apprentice eventually becoming elite member herself living up to idol Lorelei.

Part of this for me also steems from head writer for OS Takeshi Shudo and his blogs who exprressed regret of Misty story and character not being fleshed out enough resulting in unfinished story and dreams from perspective of one of writers.

However i respect and understand if you feel differently.

 

[Detective Benny]

Dragonite =/= Togekiss =/= Swinub =/= Squirtle/Eevee =/= Togepi

Other than the point "Iris getting handed a Dragonite" I don't even get what you're saying, and Iris didn't get handed a "free" Dragonite, she earned it. ... then you obviously don't know how characterization and development work, it fitted her to a T.

Thanks for proving there's nothing wrong with it.

LOL. You really don't understand development at all.

Getting better at your profession =/= CHARACTER development. This is hypocritical coming from you.

Yes, because this is a TV show for kids. The start of the Unova region/season was basically a "fresh start" (as with every region, excluding Johto). ... so I mean, pulling out your PokeDex to get an UPDATED analysis makes sense.
...
Running Gag =/= Funny
...
I find the more non intentional adult diminuendos to be more humorous than anything

Agreed.

THIS IS FINALLY A DOUBLE STANDARD THANK THE LOOOOORD
To be fair though, I think the main reason Iris' "Little Kid" gag is annoying is because her voice is kinda irritating. I personally don't have a problem with it, but I can see how others can. Team Rocket calling him a "twerp" is definitely on the same level as Iris calling him a "little kid", but I think Team Rocket fly under the radar is because they don't have annoying voices.

Maybe not in OS and AG, but definitely in some of the later seasons.

I honestly don't even understand what this point is trying to prove or disprove? Team Rocket are robotic. Robotic refers to basally being a robot, and doing the demands of people over and over and over and over. Up until Unova they were robotic as hell, doing the exact same thing every episode. That's robotic.

I agree, and they're even more robotic in XY.

Only the Unova rivals were badly written. There were too many for the writers to keep track of, so none of them got decent storylines, or the chance to develop. Paul was really well written. And so were all of May's and Dawn's rivals. I may have found them boring (especially Kenny), but that doesn't mean they were badly written.
And Tobias is not a rival of anyone so I don't know why you included him...

Sinnoh had Zoe, Nando, Ursula, Kenny, Paul, the list goes on, and you don't think that's too many?
He's not a rival but he was made as a roadblock for Ash.

He was. I don't know how/why you're comparing him to Psyduck?? Those two are completely unrelated. Togepi was a marketing tool, along with Ho-Oh, they were basically saying "hey, don't forget Pokemon, there's more to come!"

Using that logic, everything that appears in an earlier region (like Lucario) is a marketing tool, but marketing tool in this situation refers to being used only to sell merchandise and nothing more.

No. They're completely different. Paul and Trip are totally different. Trip is just ignorant, where as Paul has little to no respect for Pokemon. They're definitely similar, but they are in no way "rip offs". And no, calling Paul a rip off of the GS Rival is BS. He may be based off the Rival but it's not a rip off...

Even if he's not a "ripoff" exactly, the fact remains that they took the worst of the GS Rival to form Paul.

If you're an adult and watching the show, either disregard logic, or get over it.

That was too much to ask for those watching BW and bashing it.

 

[Famon]

If only--

--Ash wasn't Inferior to Trip and beat him down every time to teach him important lesson like how Zoey did with Dawn.

--Ash didn't go back to being an incompetent rookie ! Instate he regain his Narcissist , Attention-seeking , Practical Joking hothead personality While keeping his Competence ,experience and skill from previous series .

--Ash's 4th gym-battle wasn't so embarrassing.

--Ash didn't lose to random people like Bianca Dad for Random reason .

--Almost all Ash Pokemon (except Oshawott due to Marketing) evolved to their final and learn decent move .

-- Iris didn't call Ash ''Kid'' so many time ! Instate she call him Moron , Clueless , Fool impatient idiot etc Random world to descried him .

--Ash wasn't treated like a Punching Bag for Writer/Director favorite character like Trip , Cameron .

--Iris didn't caught a Dragonite ! Instate she raise a Bageon and evolve it to a Salamence at the end of the series.

-- Iris show her talent as Dragon trainer by beating other real Strong Trainer Instate repeatedly Beating Ash to show off her skill.

--Ash win the Junior Cup Instate of Trip whipping out everyone because he has unfinished ''Love-story'' with Alder .

--Ash didn't lose the Unova league to an unqualified idiot like Cameron.

-- N wasn't a useless guy who specialty is getting his ass kicked by other trainer's Pokemon to save another Pokemon and needing protraction from any trainer with Pokemon.

-- The Anime follow the Game Story-plot for Team Plasma Instate of replace it with a trash story from trash amateur writer.

Then Best Wishs might have became a Better series .