Suggestion: Better member-forum integration

[Alexander Nicholi]

This forum doesn't really stand out all that much in regards to member individuality, to me really. I'm an open guy, so I'll share what I have to present as solution, lend an ear to you, and so on.

I lurk the ROM hacking section a lot myself, and basically, I'm really bored out that the only personal—as in, profile et al—expression going on seems to be with those who have some sort of finanical or janitorial role with the site. Moderators, admins, donors, organizers, et cetera. Granted that's all fine and dandy, and I'm not really asking anything be done with that, but... what about those who aren't "contributing" to the site? The profile capabilities of regular members is quite bland and has changed very little from the original vB3.

I'd just like to see a whole lot less "Beginning Trainers" and "unhatched eggs" with their same old boring profiles and postbits, and to me it'd be really nice to see that livened up. For once don't have every new feature and perk spooling down into some vast minority of an interest group. And come up with new things to give everyone, too - I'm talking game team collections with sprites and a web builder, (a much more thought-out) favourite ROM hacks spot with proper post integration, status message integration instead of the archaic usertitle system, dismantling the avatar size hierarchy and giving everyone a flat, style-friendly size and disk-friendly file limit, providing special templates or structures of info people can rotate between their postbit and full profile (including teams and possibly internal hyperlinks, among others), adding info spots for things like computer specs for our techies, adding BBCode formatting to profile bios and other blurbs, and possibly even more daring stuff like optionally integrating markdown into posts, overhauling the [code][/code] and gift it intelligent JS syntax highlighting, and even implementing informations telemetry on members (dunno how you'd feel about that, but eh).

Surely these cannot all be brand-new suggestions. Well then, what's already on the plate from this list for whatever big update you staff tout? What are your thoughts on the just-mentioned things?

I don't really hang around the PokéCommunity a lot outside of my business and endeavours, and I'll be blunt and say I'm not too vested in the "community" for better or for worse. I don't really concern myself all that much, and that's honestly for the better. But, the reason I of all people sought to suggest these things is because I know that these ideas are the kind of things that would move a website forward, and hastily so. They're liberal and progressive, and I'd like to test to see if the staff are up to snuff for some big change. If not, no harm no foul. I probably won't come forth with something like this again but I am testing the waters. Regardless of whether these things actually come to fruition or not, the matter of them doing so or no will illustrate a picture to people detailing the staff's proactivity, and I find that to be important in enabling strangers to identify the fertility of the site for them as a member. So, let's get started.

 

[Her]

i think the best thing to do is wait a couple of millennia or so for pc 2.0 to come into fruition as most things you are suggesting have already been touched upon in some way in planning iirc
especially things like post bits which are going to get a lot more functionality and colour according to audy should 2.0 ever be more than loose planning

though for a more immediate solution, upping the avatar size limit of the 'basic members' should definitely be considered as so many members on this site outside of the 'basic member' category have repeatedly said just how atrocious their limits are and how there is really no reason for them to have such a bullshit limit

 

[Hikamaru]

though for a more immediate solution, upping the avatar size limit of the 'basic members' should definitely be considered as so many members on this site outside of the 'basic member' category have repeatedly said just how atrocious their limits are and how there is really no reason for them to have such a bullshit limit

This I agree with. I feel like 130x130 is too small of a size limit and it makes tons of pics come out blurry and extremely low-quality, which I'm very OCD towards because I like having avatars that look good and aren't suffering from blurry pixels.

But at the same time, I feel like the hierarchy of avatar and profile pic sizes is to encourage more to donate at the same time so I can easily understand.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

i think the best thing to do is wait a couple of millennia or so for pc 2.0 to come into fruition as most things you are suggesting have already been touched upon in some way in planning iirc
especially things like post bits which are going to get a lot more functionality and colour according to audy should 2.0 ever be more than loose planning

Following the thread of explanation, have one of those ever perchance been provided as to why development is so slow? As a developer who works in a loose-knit team I can say something like developing a live website shouldn't really be a monumental chore. I'm sure there's other reasons for it, likely... hopefully those issues can be solved. Still, has the administration at hand ever said why work is so backed up?


The things I mentioned weren't specifically exhaustive, and were intended to hint more at the general idea of a more modern web experience. Every successful website puts a rather large spotlight on the user and their ego, the biggest of big websites revolving around such (social media). If all users can have a greater sense of comfort it will boost the success of the site in a long-term fashion, and with that there is the possibility for other short-term actions to be taken to rapidly grow the site, were that a consideration. I'm just bouncing things off at random here, I hope they make enough sense. There's a lot missing and as one of those users I'd like to speak up and question about it and the situation.


I do want to stress how critical it is that these sorts of innovations be inclusive and involve everyone, instead of exclusive to different factions of users. Speaking in terms of business you want to effectively cater to as many as possible, and only really bad businesses show favouritism to their customers, no? Same applies for users on a website, who bring in ad revenue and donations. Growth depends on having an action plan and being positive and inclusive about it.

 

[Her]

you'd be better off asking someone who actually knows what's going on

but i think the dev team are hesitant to do any new additions because they want to bundle it into the massive upgrade/the infamous 'to-do list' and roll it out at a time where they can manage every little bit of the upgrade at the same time, rather than roll out each bit every now and then and consistently make sure that each new addition isn't clashing with something else and whatever

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

But at the same time, I feel like the hierarchy of avatar and profile pic sizes is to encourage more to donate at the same time so I can easily understand.

I think this way of thinking about it is a bit backwards, no offense to you. People are generally smarter than simply handing over money for a specific benefit and calling it a day when you're talking about manning a community - a far more genuine "encouragement" would be provided by being overall inclusive to them regardless of if they've donated or not, the way I see it. Most folks tend to donate for things they trust in, things they believe in, and things they care about - they're not out to purchase a bunch of arbitrary benefits with a pretty penny. I just think you'd get a lot more people donating if they were doing it for a cause than a feature or perk.

 

[gimmepie]

People donate for perks, sure we hope that people donate out of love for the site - and many of us do - but the long and short of it is that people feel more inclined to spend money when they are getting something for it. The vast majority of sites I have visited (referring only to those with donation functions) have run the same sort of system: if you donate money, we'll give you cool stuff.

I'm not saying that is necessarily the thinking of the h-staff, I honestly wouldn't know, however that makes the most sense to me.


As far as more personalisation and features for "non-contributors" as you put it, I also would suggest you wait for the eventual release of PC 2.0. since the kind of customisation etc. that will be available there has been touched on by Audy before. As for how long the wait for PC 2.0 will be I'll say this; this website is not a business, it is a hobby. To the best of my knowledge all of the developers on PC are still very invested in it, but they do have other commitments in their lives that have to take precedence. They'll have PC 2.0 up and running as soon as they possibly can and I honestly think the constant prodding about it from people is starting to get to levels bordering on rudeness.

 

[Nick]

Following the thread of explanation, have one of those ever perchance been provided as to why development is so slow? As a developer who works in a loose-knit team I can say something like developing a live website shouldn't really be a monumental chore. I'm sure there's other reasons for it, likely... hopefully those issues can be solved. Still, has the administration at hand ever said why work is so backed up?

Because it's being worked on when someone has the free time to do so. Someone who has a job and a relationship and social commitments that take priority to what is being worked on for his own pleasure and hobby.

It's pretty single handed too. It's being coded from the framework of vBulletin by one person. Not a team. Though there is one, but there is only one person actually developing the software.

I'm sorta involved in the design aspect of it. And one of the things that is taking me a long time is that the forum needs to still be a forum but it needs to emphasis community and togetherness. And I don't really know how to make that happen and still have it look nice. I am a minimalist. Sort of related, I passed along an exciting idea to Audy who seemed really interested in it. It's an onboarding system for existing users.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

People donate for perks, sure we hope that people donate out of love for the site - and many of us do - but the long and short of it is that people feel more inclined to spend money when they are getting something for it. The vast majority of sites I have visited (referring only to those with donation functions) have run the same sort of system: if you donate money, we'll give you cool stuff.

That's real disappointing, then.

As far as more personalisation and features for "non-contributors" as you put it, I also would suggest you wait for the eventual release of PC 2.0.

I asked in the OP exactly which of these ideas were on the plate and which weren't, and what the plan is with these sorts of motions anyway. Shutting up and waiting wasn't on the conideration list, sorry haha

since the kind of customisation etc. that will be available there has been touched on by Audy before. As for how long the wait for PC 2.0 will be I'll say this; this website is not a business, it is a hobby. To the best of my knowledge all of the developers on PC are still very invested in it, but they do have other commitments in their lives that have to take precedence.

It's all fine and well for it to be a hobby for the users, and even for the moderators (since all they do is check spam and fix fights), but when you start talking about the developers, it may be far wiser to get a real team together and start following protocols and running a development system with deployments and such. I'd like to know how the administration feels about that.

They'll have PC 2.0 up and running as soon as they possibly can and I honestly think the constant prodding about it from people is starting to get to levels bordering on rudeness.

lol okay

Because it's being worked on when someone has the free time to do so. Someone who has a job and a relationship and social commitments that take priority to what is being worked on for his own pleasure and hobby.

It's pretty single handed too. It's being coded from the framework of vBulletin by one person. Not a team. Though there is one, but there is only one person actually developing the software.

I'm sorta involved in the design aspect of it. And one of the things that is taking me a long time is that the forum needs to still be a forum but it needs to emphasis community and togetherness. And I don't really know how to make that happen and still have it look nice. I am a minimalist. Sort of related, I passed along an exciting idea to Audy who seemed really interested in it. It's an onboarding system for existing users.

Well, surely something can be done to alleviate that stress of single-handedly building a website, or no? Are the staff not interested in expanding their horizons and growing their site? It's really stifling to put the burden of making a huge website onto one single person. Are there plans to implement a better development system and potentially hire people, or something of that nature?

 

[donavannj]

That's real disappointing, then.

It's how humans tend to operate, though. "Why should I give you my money when I don't get anything out of it?"

I asked in the OP exactly which of these ideas were on the plate and which weren't, and what the plan is with these sorts of motions anyway. Shutting up and waiting wasn't on the conideration list, sorry haha

Well, outside of the development team and admins not on the development team, no one knows the full feature list.

It's all fine and well for it to be a hobby for the users, and even for the moderators (since all they do is check spam and fix fights), but when you start talking about the developers, it may be far wiser to get a real team together and start following protocols and running a development system with deployments and such. I'd like to know how the administration feels about that.

I'd chance a bet that there's nowhere near enough money in a Pokemon fansite for there to be a dedicated and salaried development team.

lol okay

You may feel it's not rude, but the tone you use in the OP comes off as kind of condescending, sorry to say, and coming off as condescending does make you seem rude, whether you intended to come off as condescending or if it was unintentional.

Well, surely something can be done to alleviate that stress of single-handedly building a website, or no? Are the staff not interested in expanding their horizons and growing their site? It's really stifling to put the burden of making a huge website onto one single person. Are there plans to implement a better development system and potentially hire people, or something of that nature?

Probably not a plan that goes as far as hiring people for salary or wages. As I said above, there's probably not enough money in the site to actually hire anyone full time. PC, iirc, is not a for-profit venture. Steve and the other admins can correct me if I'm wrong on this, though I'm 90% certain all ad proceeds and donations go to keeping the site running (this is just speculation based on years of being a member of PC and various other fansites since I am not and have never been involved in the administrative side of things on PC).

There's a handful of people involved in the dev team, but they don't all have the same amount of free time available. Plus, being on PC and developing for it is still a hobby for many, if not all, members of the dev team.

 

[Sylphiel]

Ignoring the tone of that sentence, "get a team" is basically easier said than done. It's not like they haven't tried getting people, but then the problem is that people with the coding knowledge required for this don't just come out of thin air. So it's really easy to just say "get a team", it's not as easy to actually get that team together.

Also, I understand the frustration behind this. But honestly, throwing shots at the dev team because they're not working as fast as you would like them to is not going to help speed things along at all. Give your suggestions to be passed along, that's fine; but the snark isn't going to help whatsoever.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Ignoring the tone of that sentence, "get a team" is basically easier said than done. It's not like they haven't tried getting people, but then the problem is that people with the coding knowledge required for this don't just come out of thin air. So it's really easy to just say "get a team", it's not as easy to actually get that team together.

Also, I understand the frustration behind this. But honestly, throwing shots at the dev team because they're not working as fast as you would like them to is not going to help speed things along at all. Give your suggestions to be passed along, that's fine; but the snark isn't going to help whatsoever.

Ah, I see. Thank you guys for your input. I've learned a good bit here.

 

[Nick]

Getting a team of volunteers to code something from scratch for no money is hard to do when your selection is limited. 99% of the community can't properly code. Then out of that 1% you'd need to find the people who know the proper language the site is being coded in. Like I said, Shawn is coding it from the skeletons of vBulletin, and probably not in the same language since I'm sure he has his preferred language.

And there is a team, to my understanding, but they are responsible for different things. I wouldn't say I'm part of the team, but I have been speaking to Audy about design aspects of 2.0 and he accepts my ideas and likes my previous work. We sometimes trade sketches of mockups we have in mind.

I'm not sure what is going on with Jake in that regard, his life may have just caught up to him to the point where he can't dedicate as much time as he did to PC five years ago to spending time designing everything and anything.