[Discussion] Building a Pokémon game from the ground up, worth it?

[KingCharizard]

C# is cross platform some what, ever heard of the mono project? C# can be used on Windows and Mac, i'm not certain of any other OS however...

 

[DaSpirit]

The reason we used C++ rather than C# is more for the cross-platform, extensible nature of the language. Sure you have Mono for C# on UNIX-based systems, but that's really inconvenient and hard to use and you wouldn't have much support for it on that end. Keep in mind that some of the developers and users of this game use Linux or Mac OS (I personally use both a Windows and a Linux machine [and soon to be FreeBSD too] to develop this). Telling them to "get Windows" (which I've actually seen be done before on other projects) is not an appropriate solution..

Mono hard to use? lol Have you ever used WinForms? It starts you off with a Window, just drag buttons on there. Sure, it's better for applications rather than games, but it's still easy. Create an OpenGL control and it's the same as programming in C++, except all of the window creation is handled for you (very easy to change too).

 

[Dragonite Ernston]

C# is cross platform some what, ever heard of the mono project? C# can be used on Windows and Mac, i'm not certain of any other OS however...

Already addressed up there for you, buddy.

Sure you have Mono for C# on UNIX-based systems, but that's really inconvenient and hard to use and you wouldn't have much support for it on that end.

Which then ties into this one:

Mono hard to use? lol Have you ever used WinForms? It starts you off with a Window, just drag buttons on there. Sure, it's better for applications rather than games, but it's still easy. Create an OpenGL control and it's the same as programming in C++, except all of the window creation is handled for you (very easy to change too).

We use a library called SFML for window creation and management. It works much better for games and what we're doing. Eventually we'd also be porting it over to SDL.

The game engine we're making does not have any dedicated interface buttons; everything is controlled via keyboard or the mouse clicking somewhere on the screen and the program detecting that something should happen, just like in the actual games and almost any other fullscreen-style game out there.

And yes, I have used WinForms; I use it when programming application GUIs in VB.NET (but not to track IP addresses). Even there I will sometimes use labels rather than command buttons as buttons, because labels don't stick out as much.

 

[Maruno]

I get the feeling this topic is becoming... off-topic. It's not about the relative merits of different programming languages.

 

[Dragonite Ernston]

I get the feeling this topic is becoming... off-topic. It's not about the relative merits of different programming languages.

I've been talking about what my project (which was built from ground up) is doing in terms of programming and the like this whole time.

That being said, you said there would definitely be an RPG engine in C++ in an earlier post. Mind telling me where I could find it?

 

[Maruno]

It's not up to me to find resources for you. I'm just sure that one exists out there somewhere for you, as it's such an obvious thing to make.

I'm not going to mini-mod, but I will say that "worth it?" is the question in the topic's title, not "how are you doing it?".

 

[DaSpirit]

I get the feeling this topic is becoming... off-topic. It's not about the relative merits of different programming languages.

It somewhat is. Seeing how high or low level a language is is important in seeing how potentially long it would take to make a project. My point was that C# is a higher level language than C++, but still flexible and gives it the benefit of speed improvements compared to GameMaker or RPG Maker.

Don't get me wrong, I use C++ more than I use C#, it's just it'd be easier to make a Pokemon game in C# using XNA.

We use a library called SFML for window creation and management. It works much better for games and what we're doing. Eventually we'd also be porting it over to SDL.

I've seen both. If you're ONLY using it for window creation and input (meaning no graphics or anything of the sort), I recommend GLFW since it's lightweight and not as bloated as SDL.

When I program using C++, I stick to GLFW and libPNG only. I get crazy in terms of optimization and speed and I want to be sure I control everything and not have anything I don't need. Heck, most game developers don't use STL. I would only like this for a commercial game though. Doing something like this for a Pokemon game is overkill. It takes a lot of time. Therefore, I'm creating my engine in GameMaker. If you're making an open source engine, you have to know your audience. I don't think anyone here making a Pokemon game is an adult and therefore most likely won't know much advanced C++. An adult game developer most likely wouldn't bother making a Pokemon game. There are some teens here who know C++, but most of them are still stuck in the basics. Expert C++ programmers who are teens are rare.

There's my two cents. My main point. Go for abstractions.

 

[Abnegation]

Guys, guys, I love all the discussion, but read the title, I said Pokemon game. Try not to get too off-topic.

 

[Full Metal]

Guys, guys, I love all the discussion, but read the title, I said Pokemon game. Try not to get too off-topic.

LOL. You're dealing with programmers. This is on topic. ;)

Game creation, Engine creation -- both allow you to create, and have fun. If you don't find writing code fun, then don't do it -- use the already existing engines! However, let's say you just HAVE to have this feature...as in, NEED it. Well, then let loose. Let your imagination go wild, and have fun.

If you're talking strictly about a Pokemon game, you need to decide of course if there's something you want implemented that isn't already available. If you just want to start making your game, go ahead! The truth is, it just depends on the specific circumstances. Which of course, is why you should always plan things out. Having a plan helps you see things you need. It won't necessarily account for every bump in the road, but can definitely give you a general idea of whether or not a custom engine is necessary, or if that's what you want.

 

[Abnegation]

LOL. You're dealing with programmers. This is on topic. ;)

Actually no, this is not a topic about programming alone. If I wanted to make a topic about programming then I would have. Like I said the topic is
Building a Pokémon game from the ground up, worth it?

not

Game Development Programming Discussion
You're welcome to create the latter thread if you wish to, however.

If you're talking strictly about a Pokemon game

Yep, we are. As stated in the OP and in the title of the thread, this is just about Pokemon styled games. As I say, feel free to make a more general topic.

So just in case anyone is getting thrown off, I'll repeat it, yes, this thread is only relative to making a Pokemon styled engine from scratch, and whether it's worth it. I don't really want to see a debate going much further than that. Thanks.

 

[Dragonite Ernston]

It's not up to me to find resources for you. I'm just sure that one exists out there somewhere for you, as it's such an obvious thing to make.

And I'm saying I couldn't find one (specifically one that was open-source and ran on completely open platforms), so I decided to make one by myself.

 

[BrainWave]

Does it include implementing ALL of pokemon, attacks and items into your game?

 

[FL]

Not just the limitations on where RPG Maker XP will run, but also the limitations on what RPG Maker XP can do.

Yes! This is that I mean.

The big problem about public engines isn't people making different engines, but the numbers of simultaneous attempts. I saw several people making their attempts instead of unite in one or two projects that have more progress and/or competent people.

 

[Nascii]

It isn't just because the money or we want fame, Spirit - it's all a work of passion for the game. We aren't here for the money - if we were, we would be in colleges, learning to design a Triple-A game for Sony or EA. No, we're here to show how much we love Pokémon. It's just as fandom-y as Pokémon Clubs (or even Pokémon Trivia) is here.

I think this may sum it up: it's all for the fun. If you expect to earn some bucks out of your games, then don't bother doing a Pokémon game unless you're quite the guy and figure out a way to come around Nintendo's intellectual property. It's for the sake of the art and for the fun we do things, and that's how it should be. Creating a game is hard, it's not for those who do not enjoy what they're doing. And creating an engine is even harder.

I am currently creating myself a Java-based Pokémon game. All from scratch. I personally do this because of the fun. I get to know my game from deep inside, and this is something an out-of-the-shelf engine wouldn't necessarily allow you to do. I get to add all these things I've always wanted to see in the Pokémon games. And I get to know the how. For me, this is all I expect in return.

It could be easier for all if, as FL . stated, groups joined to create larger things. The team who made the Pokémon games consists on many, many people, be them artists, composers, programmers, and else. You can see this in the credits (somehow...). What could be useful for these purpose is to promote even more these kind of teams as well. But, this is getting out of topic...

Is it a good idea to create a Pokémon game from the ground up? Yes, only if you are willing to. If your only purpose is money, then find yourself a better idea to work on, 'cause a Pokémon game isn't for you.

 

[Dragonite Ernston]

The big problem about public engines isn't people making different engines, but the numbers of simultaneous attempts. I saw several people making their attempts instead of unite in one or two projects that have more progress and/or competent people.

Another huge problem is burnout. When I started out looking for an open-source engine to tinker with, it was very hard for me to find a project far in enough that I couldn't code it myself in a few days. I found one project that seemed like it was pretty far in, but it was trying to emulate Gen.2 graphics and had a teeny-tiny screen and etc.

I stuck with it anyway, hoping to get at least something done, but as soon as I joined, slowly everyone started dropping off the project since they were either too busy or had other things they were doing with their time.

The project split off into new management, but then the new management also got tired of it, and they dumped it on me to re-engineer, which I did, starting a completely new project. The trouble wasn't over, though. I had to completely recycle the dev team, leaving me with only two people, and I got into a bit of hijinks with another project that also burned out eventually.

Had the original team been more committed, I would not have started my own project afterwards, and most of the above wouldn't have happened.

In summary, there are too many startup attempts, but the attempts that get far in enough to not be startups will often burn out after a while.

I'm not making this same mistake with Four Star Mon. I might make a lot of different mistakes because of that, but definitely not the same one.

(If this is getting off-topic again, I apologize.)

 

[KingCharizard]

The big problem about public engines isn't people making different engines, but the numbers of simultaneous attempts. I saw several people making their attempts instead of unite in one or two projects that have more progress and/or competent people.

This is also the reason behind the many "Failed" games on this site.. You have many talented artists working with some talented programmers/designers but their game is never quite good enough or finished.. Blue Chrome(Dont know if the name changed) for example... That game is fantastic.. but it will probably never be completed or released(Correct me if I'm wrong). But all the hard work put into that project by the artists among the many others who worked on the game just is being wasted.. When I tried to start a few projects I would have completed if not for lack of resources but it was hard to find artist who wanted to work with me because I had no reputation and I was mixing graphics and using what i had. I had no talented writer, I came up with a concept but it needed to be expanded. I was a decent mapper but I am an olde style mapper from gen 1 and 2 days these new maps are more creative I dont know if I could adapt and be really good.. i could have been okay.. just my point is I see at least 2 different game engine projects a week being started and stopped but as .FL said if people would pool their resources on one project it would be awesome.. for instance PE needs a lot of improvement.. why don't some of these java and python programmers help with that? You will continue to have games/game engines sprout up and die.... its just that simple but it would be a Great Idea as the OP asked if you could put together a dedicated team...

 

[TheOriginalOne]

I think being able to create pokémon games from scratch would be a reliable way for ROM hackers never to have to worry about being doing something illegal, in other words, downloading ROMs. You know, suddenly they could reinforce internet control and find out who downloaded certain things... that always scares me.
Also, as long as the right files are published, I see no reason for problems among potential helpers.

 

[Abnegation]

This topic is well over 2 months old now, so gonna go ahead and lock it!

Locked.