Can you make grinding fun?

[Meister_anon~Master_o f_None]

I like some of the responses I've gotten but I think I need to make this more specific so people get what I'm saying,
because it seems people seem to think I only mean gaining exp.

To me grinding is...

just a repetitive task needed to receive some in-game benefit and is typically a core or intrinsic part of the main game loop.

the main loop for pokemon is essentially get pokemon, train pokemon.

where getting pokemon can mean either catching the exact pokemon you want.
or breeding pokemon.

while training pokemon
involves exp gain, battling/interacting with the battle system
and ev work to adjust pokemon's specific growth.


So what I'm saying is what way could the core systems involved in those things be adjusted to make them,
more interesting/less frustrating to engage with, other than diminishing or just outright removing them.

Right now Im leaning into adding extra benefit or incentive to some things to make people
have a reason to want to use them.

and that minigame idea I saw further up reminded me of how digimon world 3 had gyms that were used to raise stats,
where pokemon requires having to fight certain pokemon, in a system where you can't control who you encounter.

So its not lined up very well,
so maybe the best option would be to separate ev gain from battling/exp-gain all together?

That way players interested in the system don't have to worry about a pokemon being essentially unusable in the regular gameplay
until its been fully trained.


Also that's a bit more in line with the show as well, as paul's pokemon in the series were seen to do some form of weight training/conditioning to make them stronger,
rather than just battling, same with ash's pikachu actually before the rematch at brock's gym.


hm it makes sense to do it that way, but I'm a bit hesitant because that's a huge change for those used to doing it the current way.
any thoughts on that?

 

[SuperSpyroDragon64]

Step 1, set every Pokemon to the Fast experience-gaining type. Medium-Fast, Parabolic, whatever they're called, make them Fast.
Step 2, increase every Pokemon's base EXP. Personally I like to use the Find And Replace function to find and replace "BaseEXP = " with "BaseEXP = 1". This increases every pokemon's EXP yield when defeated, massively accelerating grinding.

 

[Rilmani404]

Do you remember the spearow delivery quest from SGC? Add a pokemon to your party, deliver it from one spot to another, done? I figure that we could draw upon Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and Ranger games- wild pokemon offer you a quest through pantomime, as they do in the show, revealing they want help returning to another wild pokemon. A static pokemon or patch of grass on the same route or on an adjacent route. These missions would only pop up if you leave a spot open in your party. When you complete such a quest either all of your pokemon get experience or you get the berry-equivalent of a rare candy. Perhaps you can grind with the new pokemon in Wild double battles, and doing so has a chance of additional rewards when you complete the quest. On the other hand if your quest-giver faints, you are knocked down to the minimal reward.

A setup like this could turn into a more organic way of completing a Gotta Catch 'em All challenge- you just have to "battle alongside" every pokemon, meaning you stay in a route catch X pokemon and then you stay until you complete a delivery quest with the remaining Y pokemon of the route. Sweet Scent and similar moves would increase the odds of a questgiver event spawning. I'd like this set up because I'm a fanatic for double battles though, it wouldn't be for everyone.

 

[Meister_anon~Master_o f_None]

Other approaches are great, but often approaches that remove the grind are undercutting the heart of an RPG: progressive growth through experience. They're an overcorrection to a real problem. Forced EXP share and awarding exp to party Pokémon for new captures, for example, try to eliminate the grind in a fashion that breaks the premise of Pokémon in my opinion. You have to train them to get stronger, but EXP share rewards them experience without them actually experiencing combat. It doesn't feel like my Pokemon's strength has been earned at all when they're leveling up and evolving without ever having left the ball. Gaining experience from captures doesn't even make sense. Experience from what? What did they experience? How did that make them stronger??

There are methods of solving the grind problem that don't take away this fundamental part of the game. Creative use of gyms, re-battlable trainers that let you focus on building specific stats or give boosted XP, cutting the XP needed for individual pokemon to level but also adding level caps so you end up swapping out to other pokemon. Etc etc.

But I think at the end of the day, there's only one wrong way to handle this issue: refusing to give the player options, so they can choose to play the game the way they like.

i agree with a lot of what you have to say, but just want to correct one thing exp on capture does make sense, and I thought that was a pretty brilliant idea. (just need a little tweak)

for example think of all the legendary pokemon you attempt to capture, unless you had a masterball, you STRUGGLED, probably went through many potions, and revives to keep your pokemon alive, throughout the long fight, you have to fight to capture pokemon in most cases, and that is combat experience, but previously you'd get nothing for it.

So I liked the idea that when you caught a pokemon you could get exp for the trouble.

But there was the oversight of first turn captures, which is why my version of exp on catch requires that the pokemon took damage
during the fight for it to trigger.

 

[Mario60866]

In my rom hacks there is virtually no true level grinding because the gym leaders and other trainers give tons of XP and not only are there rare candies everywhere to find but there are also other level up items that are easy to get and level up your Pokemon by lots of levels. The reason, however, why I would include something like this is because the opponents are in fact super strong but the point of the game is playing through with your favorite Pokemon.

 

[Meister_anon~Master_o f_None]

So having played legends arceus, that's literally the best example of the idea I was trying to get at.

it makes the grinding aspect of rpgs fun, interesting, and worthwhile.

by balancing the tasks with their rewards, and being innovative.

 

[FL]

On my game (Island) I made all trainers rematchable, I put some alternative trainers or battle challenges for players, and put minigames that player can earn a good amount of exp:

For money grinding I put many ways/places to earn valuable items/money, but mainly Battle Tower.

 

[Corveone]

So having played legends arceus, that's literally the best example of the idea I was trying to get at.

it makes the grinding aspect of rpgs fun, interesting, and worthwhile.

by balancing the tasks with their rewards, and being innovative.

Couldn't agree more. I loved how they removed IVs and revamped EV mechanics in Legends Arceus, I been wishing for something like this for almost a decade. Sadly it will all most likely return to "normal" in the next main game.

 

[Meister_anon~Master_o f_None]

Couldn't agree more. I loved how they removed IVs and revamped EV mechanics in Legends Arceus, I been wishing for something like this for almost a decade. Sadly it will all most likely return to "normal" in the next main game.

yeah its just so good, like I spent plent of time just catching pokemon, to release them and just roaming around searching for items just for the ev sack things.

and it gives me a reason too, since the large amount of boosts it can provide allows me to balance pokemon how I want.

So I can use whoever I want with enough work since I can essentially train them/buff them till they are up to snuff.

it just hits all those parts of the brain perfectly.