Dealing With Competitive Know-it-alls

[Mumzy]

So I'm sure we've all ran into them at some point in our lives, some more extreme than others. That kid that puts you down for not having the exact pokemon build (Likely smogon released) that they firmly believe you should have, that harass you for not taking every piece of their "advice" even when your not asking for any, believing all pokemon should all have the same movepools and stats, and only the most over used pokemon because their "better". Their all over the internet in the Pokemon community, then again what do you expect? It is "competitive" battling after all.

So how do you deal with these kind of people? I'd like secondary advice. I suggest avoiding conversation with the person, but to basically respond by stressing the fact that you can do whatever you want. That's it. But it's still difficult, especially when it comes down to harassment and name calling?

 

[Guardian]

I never understood why people have these kind of problems.
One simple "Do I look like I give a crap?" works wonder.

The best they could do then is either "yeah but I am trying to explain you something" or even "no wonder you suck at this".

"yes, but DO I LOOK like I give a CRAP?" is supper effective again!!

Come on guys, you cant lose a discussion with these kind of people, just keep spamming this argument at them and they will eventually give up, and no matter what they say, whether an insult or anything, they will know they lost and will feel be smashed down to Earth :D

 

[Flushed]

that harass you for not taking every piece of their "advice" even when your not asking for any

I get what you're saying, but this would only happen when people seek advice. I've never seen someone be harassed outside the Battle Center (or within it for that matter). From my experience, yeah, these people can be adamant about their advice, and rightly so: I go to them specifically for their knowledge. If I have a counter argument, I'll present it, they'll present theirs, and I'll decide what to do from there, whether that be heed their advice or not. I haven't witnessed any flaming or anything of that nature, but I mean if you are, just avoid these people all together.

 

[Timbjerr]

They just don't bother me, mainly because I straddle the line between being a casual player and being a competitive one myself. If you don't wanna hear it, then you can just ignore them. Most of the Smogonites I know understand that there are people who simply don't care and won't discuss these sort of things unless you show an interest.

 

[psychomew2]

You have to realize one simple fact: it's IMPOSSSIBLE to please everyone. When I try things out of the norm, I get called a newb with no idea what he's doing. If I try something more standard, then I'm a sheep who can't do his own thinking. No matter how you play, in the end there will always be someone who doesn't like it. Don't worry about the fact that some people get on your case, if there were never any people like that in your experience, I think that would honestly be outside of the norm.

 

[srinator]

I have seen many people who diss others for using original sets just because it is not a smogon standard set, some of them are here too not taking names

everyone has their own style of play and rather than bombarding people with copy/pasted sets people should rather read what they have written and give us advice accordingly [talking about the rmt section here]

You know what? first of all tell these people, "man you are a genius, now take a hike"
having fun is more important than winning, why else would you play pokemon? It's not like you have come here to be bossed around by such people (this is for what you said " that harass you for not taking every piece of their "advice" even when your not asking for any")

Also i think this place needs to start arranging and give specific rules for the rmt section, i might sound like a hypocrite when i say look at smogon but its partly the reason why people think of posting their rmt's there, for more professional like advice.

 

[Zeffy]

Honestly if you are going to ask for team help in a place where everyone knows what they are saying, and you're going to introduce something new, you better have valid proof. There have been several instances where I've seen people post a team help thread and then outright reject the help that has been given to them because they don't comply by "smogon rules." If you're going to be like that then you shouldn't bother seeking for help seeing as you obviously know your thing.

 

[srinator]

If we are going to talk indirectly then i should also add that if you are going to help someone by giving him a set, at least what you can do is tell us why you think the set you are providing is better than the current one, after all it's not a one man team. Most of the time in rmt's rather than changing each and every mon with your own choice and do a complete makeover of it and lose the actual purpose of the team,one should try to make minimal changes to the overlook and go for stuff that is wrong within the poke unless of course there are some rather big problems out there.
I am not against "smogon rules" but it's not like its written on stone right? you can make your own set and well if it does win you matches why diss it? I am not saying i know my stuff but if you are going to correct me, i need reasons that are better than "this is better" "this sucks" "this wont work".

 

[Nah]

having fun is more important than winning

I wanna point out that not everyone feels that way, and you really shouldn't assume so.

Also i think this place needs to start arranging and give specific rules for the rmt section

Like....?

even when your not asking for any

But if you are posting a team help thread in a RMT section, you are in fact asking for advice.


Also, like Zephyrion, said, there's nothing wrong with coming up with and using non-standard sets, but if you do, you must explain WHY you think it works, and be prepared to debate your position. If you don't, I (or anyone else) have no reason to believe that your set works and will probably tell you to use a more standard set.

 

[Puddle]

I try and put my own opinions to the table. Obviously, there are those people who do everything by the book. That's how it is in so many places in the world. So, of course, people are going to do that with competitive play. However, this is better. You go into a battle expecting a Charizard, Talonflame, Ferrothorn, Greninja, Aegislash, and Rotom-W or something. All with the exact movesets. Guess what? You know they play straight by the books, you know exactly what they use and how to counter it. The Pokemon that people don't expect are really what gets me.

There's been a few times where I expected like a Huge Power Azumarill, hit it with a grass attack, and it ends up having Sap Sipper or something. The element of surprise is really what helps. If you build a team that's not 100% like everyone else's then you will win battles. People prep their team against the standard sets of Pokemon, so your not standard set could be perfect.

Basically, don't heed all their advice. Some people give awesome advice, and definitely at least listen. You don't have to do it. Just say like "Thanks, but I like my current team." And move on. You don't necessarily have to shoot down what they say, even if they are being jackasses.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Non standard sets are fine.

However with things like this the line tends to get warped between useful non standard sets and dumb gimmicks and THAT is when you should take advice from people who are more experienced than you. Learn to play with standard sets and then use non standard sets if they suite your team. They are standard because they work.

In the same vein, its frankly synapse when i see people using an inferior option/pokemon just for being "creative/gimmicky". Sure you use a Nasty Plot Weavile, wow you sure caught me off guard by doing less damage than you would normally and still being walled by the same stuff even harder. You sure showed me why you're using it over <insert any special sweeper here>!

 

[Anti]

I find that the "to hell with Smogon" crowd tends to be much more narrow-minded than everyone else, regardless of how seriously they take competitive Pokemon.

I don't know why you'd ask for help if you don't want to be told that something might be wrong. As D_A pointed out, "competitive know-it-alls" don't have biases against gimmicks--good players often use non-standard sets as surprise factor is a huge advantage when done right--but against crappy gimmicks, especially when the OP is being stubborn because "not everyone battles the same way" or "I want to have fun." You're entitled to do that, but no one can tell you how to enjoy Pokemon the most. Only you can. Team raters can tell you how to improve your team. If you don't want that kind of advice, don't ask for it and then unleash your victim complex.

Sap Sipper Azumarill is a pretty amazing example of a bad gimmick. A general rule of thumb for gimmicks is "can it still be useful after the set is known?" Think physical Thundurus or defensive Charizard-X. Those are standard-ish now precisely because they were once good gimmicks. Sap Sipper Azumarill might take my Ferrothorn by surprise, and that's cool and everything, but you better believe that my very next move will be sending in Clefable to set up all over something with no way of threatening me.

More importantly, I think that while the dichotomy between winning or competitiveness and fun can be very real and people can take the game too seriously, I find that many people in the "Smogon is ruining Pokemon!" crowd tend to treat fun and competitiveness as if they are mutually exclusive. This is simply fiction. Do you know what I find fun? Fusing tactical and strategic thinking in a game where anything can happen. Figuring out what Pokemon is my best win condition in a given matchup and then figuring out what opposing Pokemon need to die to clear the way, and how to do that on a tactical level. Predicting 50/50 plays based on what I think my opponent will do. Playing around Pokemon I'm weak against. These things are foundational elements of elite competitive play. And guess what? I find it immensely enjoyable. If I get too stressed from the thinking, I can log off and start fresh. If I just want casual matches, I can log onto the PC server or start a new account and beat up the lower ladder for a little while. So yeah, it's funny to me the same people who complain about Smogon dictating how to play Pokemon sure seem eager to dictate to me how the way I enjoy Pokemon is inferior or tainted or something because it's competitive. Maybe these people need to back off the self-righteousness.

Yeah, competitive players tend to be jerks to people who ask for advice and then won't change anything. They can often be jerks for no apparent reason. The latter is a problem (and sometimes a very big one), but this isn't a black and white issue by any stretch.

(And I don't want to minimize how much people can take the game too seriously and be abusive little brats. But it's also a completely separate issue.)

Lastly, I would just say that the biggest barrier to this issue/"conflict" that arises with "just for fun" and "I want to win" players (again stressing that these are not mutually exclusive) is that neither "side" tends to want to communicate. It's easy to rant about Smogon or pompous competitive types, just as it is easy to complain about stubborn anti-Smogon types. These two types of players definitely exist, but people might be able to tolerate each other a little more if it wasn't "my side is the only way to do Pokemon" all the time. It's like American politics or something lol. (As someone who feels like he plays competitively, but only if it's fun, I find both extremes to be equally insufferable, in case that wasn't obvious.)

 

[MoxieInfinite]

There's been a few times where I expected like a Huge Power Azumarill, hit it with a grass attack, and it ends up having Sap Sipper or something. The element of surprise is really what helps. If you build a team that's not 100% like everyone else's then you will win battles. People prep their team against the standard sets of Pokemon, so your not standard set could be perfect.

The element of surprise is in no way more important being able to play good. Sure, they might have 6 common mons with common movesets, and the reason they are used that often is because they perform consistently, and cover the stuff that is commonly used. Gimmicks, surprise-sets and ♥♥♥♥ like that is better to use in tourneys than on the ladder. That player is known for running stall in Ubers? Bring SD|E-Speed|Shadow Force|Refresh Arceus-Normal or something along those lines.
A good player plays carefully around your Azumarill in the beginning to scout the set, your playstyle, your skill level, etc, before he finds his perfect counter/switching pattern/whatever. If he realises that your Play Rough did waaaaay to little against your Amoonguss, he can pretty much conclude that you're not running Huge Power.
Also, if you won a game due to running Sap Sipper instead of Huge Power, you didn't face a very good player.