Disciplining Children

[Yusshin]

It's quite simple, really.

You spank with an open-hand. Not too hard, though. If a bruise appears, you've spanked way, way too hard.

It's too bad I don't know about force and physics and such. We need someone capable of doing that equation to calculate force applied from the hand on the buttocks :| That would solve all of this lol Also, speed and such.

You don't raise your hand up high. You keep it relatively close to where you're going to spank. This allows for less force to build up, and frankly, you won't hit too hard if you're close to the target. Force comes from speed. The further your hand is away, the harder you're going to hit, because the faster you're going to impact against the buttocks. You'd hit a child's buttocks a bit harder then you would clap for your favourite musician at a concert. You aren't slapping your hands to cause pain, but you are impacting with your fingers against the palm to cause slight disturbance. A bit harder than a normal person would clap on average should be enough.

 

[Mika]

It's quite simple, really.

You spank with an open-hand. Not too hard, though. If a bruise appears, you've spanked way, way too hard.

It's too bad I don't know about force and physics and such. We need someone capable of doing that equation to calculate force applied from the hand on the buttocks :| That would solve all of this lol Also, speed and such.

You don't raise your hand up high. You keep it relatively close to where you're going to spank. This allows for less force to build up, and frankly, you won't hit too hard if you're close to the target. Force comes from speed. The further your hand is away, the harder you're going to hit, because the faster you're going to impact against the buttocks. You'd hit a child's buttocks a bit harder then you would clap for your favourite musician at a concert. You aren't slapping your hands to cause pain, but you are impacting with your fingers against the palm to cause slight disturbance. A bit harder than a normal person would clap on average should be enough.

But see, you can't judge just how hard you're hitting. My dad used to hit me 'not very hard' but it would hurt worse than anything I got from bullies at school. He didn't know his own strength and he apologized but the damage was still done.

The way you've set up spanking is precisely what my church and the churches in my area disagree with. And, in my opinion, this isn't something we can agree to disagree on because agreeing to disagree on something that causes physical damage to a child is just opening our children up to be victims of violence. :x

 

[Yusshin]

Well, I think a standard for strength should be implemented, and a parent shouldn't be able to decide if they're hitting too hard or too lightly.

Imagine that. An instruction booklet on how to spank your child properly lol

It seems silly, but too many people don't "know their own strength". A book might help.

"Spanking for Dummies". I can see it now.

 

[Brolywrath]

Mika:

Why do you assume that parents who spank their children do so out of anger and frustration?

If you want to speak in regards of studies you need to understand that every single one is too vague when describing the nature of "spankings." They also exclude important factors like how the child was spanked, the nature of the spanking, why the child was spanked, the social economic position they are in--the list goes on. As you know, the term "spank" can be used in a number of ways.

It has been said repeatedly that not every child requires a spanking. Not every child needs to be spanked because they did something wrong.

In reference to your comment about beating children without them understanding what they did wrong, that obviously is child abuse. It also leads the child to believe that their parent is unstable.

The fact of the matter is in majority of cases, children are well aware of what their doing before they decide whether or not they want to break a rule or not listen. A lot can be controlled with a verbal warning, others maybe taking something away physically, but there will always be the children who need a physical reminder of why following the orders of their parents must be heeded.

 

[Rogue planet]

Using violence against children is totally unnecessary, it teaches them so many wrong things.
They could get the impression that using violence to deal with a problem is acceptable, these are the sort of kids that end up being bullies at school.
Or it could have the effect that Mika described, teaching a child to just shut up, creating feelings of shyness and fear. Instead of teaching a child why what they did is wrong, all violence does is make them fearful of doing something wrong. It's just full of negativety. There are better ways to deal with problems, some parents just can't be bothered or can't think of anything better to do.

To those who say "some children are just so bad they need to be physically disciplined" no child is born as a bad person, if a child is misbehaving terribly it is more than likely the parents' fault. Anyone can be taught what is right and wrong without being subjected to violence.

 

[Yusshin]

Actually, children have a "rebellious" phase in them. Some children see what others do, and copy it. If a child sees another child badmouth their teacher / parent, or hears stories about how it's acceptable to do that by peers, they'll turn bad. It's not necessarily the parents fault, unless the parents are always swearing and abusing each other. We live in a disgusting world. You could have angel parents and turn out a bad apple, just because of the worldly influence - especially television, radio, the news, etc.

Also, you always start by teaching them verbally. It's when they keep on doing it and refuse to listen that you smack their bum.

Again: some things you don't spank them for. If they take an extra cookie, you don't spank them. You always tell them not to do that, even if they do it fifty times. You spank them if they become destructive (writing on the walls continuously), hurt someone else constantly, or badmouth the parent or teacher.

Those are acceptable circumstances. If a child breaks a toy, you don't spank'em for that either. It's only for very, very severe things.

 

[Throat]

My father and mother used to spank me, but I think it only teaches a child how not to be punished again. I will never beat a kid to "teach", I'm quite sure if you talk to them a way they can understand, prizing good deeds rather than telling them it's nothing but their duty, they'll become better adults.

 

[Mika]

Spanking for Dummies will not work because each parent / church group has a different idea on what spanking is. >->;

If, supossedly, I still agreed with the way I was raised and wished to include spanking in the future when I raise my children, the method I would use theoretically would be considered 'abuse' by your standards. However, by my hypothetical standards, you are the one who is doing the abusing. There's absolutely no viable middle source to determine which of us is right and which of us is wrong and because there's no way to easily mandate control over how people spank their children, it's best to just eliminate it to prevent people from taking it too far.

"If you can't stop fighting over it we'll just take it away and then you'll behave >:<"

We wouldn't be the first country to do it. If you refer to the chart I previously linked to, you would notice that in most Western 1st world countries, a child sometimes gets a smack here and there [as everyone has a breaking point] but almost nowhere in a 1st world country is there anything like what we have in the US. Example: My European/Australian friends are, for the most part, utterly appalled by the idea of children being treated with such disrespect and they don't have nearly the crime rates we do. :x We might want to look into why this is.

 

[Fox♠]

I used to get a clip around the ear or my backside when I acted up as a kid and I feel I've grown up as a better adult because of it. And I'll do the exact same if I ever have kids. It doesn't teach fear, it teaches that there are consequences to bad actions.

 

[Yusshin]

Spanking for Dummies will not work because each parent / church group has a different idea on what spanking is. >->;

Sure it would. It would tell you where to spank, how hard, how much, and under what circumstances. How wouldn't that work lol

As for the crime thing, spanking would barely have anything to do with it. America is more into violent and sexual video games; Europe is, too, but not as much. America has the most vile, sexually explicit television shows, movies, songs, video games, morals, and values, and it's just right to say that the people who live in the country that hosts the majority of this content would be the most sexually explicit, demeaning, violent individuals. They grew up with that stuff on TV, in songs, and in video games, and it influenced them in the end.

Really, spankings is like... so miniscule compared to the crap kids see on TV. Even "E"-rated films have sexual scenes and alcohol, violence, etc. It's become the norm', the "appropriate", and the "acceptable". Their idols are the badass, violent rappers and the actresses, singers, and actors who cheat on their husbands/wives, chase them down with golf clubs, and do drugs like cocaine, heroine, while dressing inappropriately.

That is what's causing it. Not spanking. Europe has an issue with the above as well, but it isn't as bad as in the home country :|

And lots of places in Europe permit spanking, according to your link up there. You were talking to the people who obviously didn't experience it, or obviously didn't realize it's allowed in 1/2 of Europe, Canada, and the US. It's an acceptable form of punishment as long as you don't go too far.

 

[Mika]

I used to get a clip around the ear or my backside when I acted up as a kid and I feel I've grown up as a better adult because of it. And I'll do the exact same if I ever have kids. It doesn't teach fear, it teaches that there are consequences to bad actions.

See that I'm not horribly against. I personally don't like it but I can look the other way at a VERY LIGHT thwap an appropriate punishment on occasion especially if the child's doing something that could endangers them. I'm not okay with the rituals assorted with spanking. I had to fetch the spanking utensil, speak what I had done wrong and count the individual swats out loud. I then had to, without shedding a single tear, explain again what I had done wrong, apologize, hug and then go back to whatever I was doing like nothing had ever happened. :x

To be honest, I think everyone has different opinions in this thread on the actual definition of what 'okay spanking' is.

What it means to me isn't what it means to you, etc etc.

 

[Fox♠]

There shouldn't be a guide because every child is different. One child may be extra sensitive to pain and would only need the lightest tap to set them straight, another may be frail and any excess force could cause unnecisary harm, there is no right or wrong way to "spank" a child; It's down to the parents.

 

[Yusshin]

There shouldn't be a guide because every child is different. One child may be extra sensitive to pain and would only need the lightest tap to set them straight, another may be frail and any excess force could cause unnecisary harm, there is no right or wrong way to "spank" a child; It's down to the parents.

Ah, I forgot about frailness issues. Whoops :P

But you know what I mean. Obviously you don't beat them like a boxer would his opponent. Judge fairly, and don't bruise. That's all.

 

[Fox♠]

Ah, I forgot about frailness issues. Whoops :P

But you know what I mean. Obviously you don't beat them like a boxer would his opponent. Judge fairly, and don't bruise. That's all.

In my opinion it should only ever be enough to sting for a short while and not actually hurt, and it should be the ONE tap, with a hand, not with a ruler, or belt or whatever. That's sadistic and sick imo.

 

[Yusshin]

In my opinion it should only ever be enough to sting for a short while and not actually hurt, and it should be the ONE tap, with a hand, not with a ruler, or belt or whatever. That's sadistic and sick imo.

Glad we agree :] Like I said earlier, only for severe things, too, and only after you explain verbally a few times. It's when they really, really, really do not want to understand how severe it is that you spank them (i.e. hitting someone; badmouthing a parent / teacher; writing on the walls, etc.)

 

[Throat]

I used to get a clip around the ear or my backside when I acted up as a kid and I feel I've grown up as a better adult because of it. And I'll do the exact same if I ever have kids. It doesn't teach fear, it teaches that there are consequences to bad actions.

Pain isn't the only way to punish a kid, maybe one could take away a toy or something he enjoys for some time, leave him thinking (which is a professional's suggestion).

 

[Yusshin]

Pain isn't the only way to punish a kid, maybe one could take away a toy or something he enjoys for some time, leave him thinking (which is a professional's suggestion).

I'm sure the child will be thinking about what he did when his butt is stinging. He might also think mommy is evil, but he's never going to want to get that spanking again.

Toys being taken away should come with verbal warnings. If even at that, the kid doesn't want to listen, you spank them. You don't take anything away, but you spank them instead. That's after a few warnings, of course.

 

[Fox♠]

Pain isn't the only way to punish a kid, maybe one could take away a toy or something he enjoys for some time, leave him thinking (which is a professional's suggestion).

A tap from dad sorted me out far quicker than mum taking my toys away, trust me. Kids often have more than just a few toys, if one is taken then they go get another

 

[Yusshin]

A tap from dad sorted me out far quicker than mum taking my toys away, trust me. Kids often have more than just a few toys, if one is taken then they go get another

Exactly. I had plenty of "favourite" toys. Playing with another while waiting for my dad to give me back the one he took was easy for me as a kid.

 

[Throat]

A tap from dad sorted me out far quicker than mum taking my toys away, trust me. Kids often have more than just a few toys, if one is taken then they go get another

God... then forbid the kid of playing with anything for a period.

I'm sure the child will be thinking about what he did when his butt is stinging*. He might also think mommy is evil, but he's never going to want to get that spanking again**.

Toys being taken away should come with verbal warnings. If even at that, the kid doesn't want to listen, you spank them. You don't take anything away, but you spank them instead. That's after a few warnings, of course.

*I think it's harder to think clearly in pain
**Yes, he'll know how to avoid being spanked again