~~Diving Deep~~ (A Water Pokemon Fan Club)

[Megan]

Yeah, my main point is status inflicting and why is Shell Smash not Water-type when Withdraw is? D:

Every none Water-type that takes part in a wide waterbody should be affected by this condition automatically. >:) Three turns, you're out. I like the ring of it. Make it one turn under the sea. >:)

That's something that I'm asking myself as well. However I think the main issue isn't why Shell Smash is a Normal and not a Water type move, but rather why Withdraw is a Water type move.

Make it two turns underwater. For one, there's still the possibility of being able to hold your breath underwater, at least to a certain depth, but more importantly: fairness. One turn is pretty close to a 1HKO move but with 100% accuracy and nobody likes those.

But what about you? What would you like to see as a status condition?

 

[Hydro Pumper]

Back to regular activity now that the semester is over. ;D

How about a Water-type equivalent of Fake Out?

Initial Splash - a first turn priority move where the user douses the opponent in cold water causing them to flinch. Simply causes damage to Water and Ice type Pokemon without the secondary effect.

Reminds me of the years of swimming training during winter months. :)

 

[Sun]

Back to regular activity now that the semester is over. ;D

How about a Water-type equivalent of Fake Out?

Initial Splash - a first turn priority move where the user douses the opponent in cold water causing them to flinch. Simply causes damage to Water and Ice type Pokemon without the secondary effect.

Reminds me of the years of swimming training during winter months. :)

Which kinda Pokemon should have Initial Splash?

That's something that I'm asking myself as well. However I think the main issue isn't why Shell Smash is a Normal and not a Water type move, but rather why Withdraw is a Water type move.

Make it two turns underwater. For one, there's still the possibility of being able to hold your breath underwater, at least to a certain depth, but more importantly: fairness. One turn is pretty close to a 1HKO move but with 100% accuracy and nobody likes those.

But what about you? What would you like to see as a status condition?

I can answer about the Withdraw. :) Back in Gen I only Water-types (with shells/armors obviously) were able to learn Withdraw. Though it can be argued that they should have changed the move's type into Normal-type, in the same way how Sand Attack and Karate Chop were corrected in Gen II.

Hafta tell ya, I wasn't playing fair to begin with! >:) I'm openly biased to the Water-type! >:) Just kidding.

I do not mind re-using current existing statuses. Perhaps Lullaby Wave, an offensive Water-type move that can cause the target to fall asleep by 10% and 80 Base Power?

Makes me curious why is that we don't have a freeze variant of Scald? That would be neat as well. :)

 

[Hikamaru]

Makes me curious why is that we don't have a freeze variant of Scald? That would be neat as well. :)

Here's my ideal take on an icy version of Scald...

Icy Water - 100 Accuracy, 80 Base Power
Has a 10% chance to freeze the target.

I went with the usual 10% chance since freeze is a very powerful status, which explains why most moves that inflict it have a lower chance of causing it compared to other status conditions. I mainly see Water/Ice Pokemon using it, but some other Water-types as well.

 

[Sun]

Here's my ideal take on an icy version of Scald...

Icy Water - 100 Accuracy, 80 Base Power
Has a 10% chance to freeze the target.

I went with the usual 10% chance since freeze is a very powerful status, which explains why most moves that inflict it have a lower chance of causing it compared to other status conditions. I mainly see Water/Ice Pokemon using it, but some other Water-types as well.

Slight off topic here, Nichole is so right on Freeze being a powerful status. It explains why there are no status moves that can cause that problem like Poison Powder, Hypnosis, Thunderbolt, etc./ :)

Going back to the main topic, how about something soda-ish? Like Sparkling Water? A move that has 10% on inflicting Paralysis to the foe and has 80 Base Power as well, a variant of Scald and Icy Water. {XD}

Y'all know? I've been think why Water Shuriken isn't a Water variant of Aerial Ace or Swift. D:

 

[Megan]

Y'all know? I've been think why Water Shuriken isn't a Water variant of Aerial Ace or Swift. D:

But it's still a priority move. There aren't that many non-Normal type priority moves in the games, let alone priority+multi hit moves.

You know what's funny, though? While in XY Water Shuriken was Greninja only, in ORAS Accelgor got access to it as well.

 

[Sun]

But it's still a priority move. There aren't that many non-Normal type priority moves in the games, let alone priority+multi hit moves.

You know what's funny, though? While in XY Water Shuriken was Greninja only, in ORAS Accelgor got access to it as well.

Ah I didn't know that Water Shuriken is a priority move. :P

I believe, multi-strike moves are handy for breaking substitutes.

But I personally prefer a Pokemon with Skill Link to learn such moves. It isn't that weird for Accelgor to learn the said move, because it is based on a ninja; it lives in/near a waterbody. That 75 base Attack with Water Shuriken though...

I'm picky on my Greninja's moves, I didn't make him learn the move due to the BP and it's not guaranteed to strike 5 times. I have two, one Special based attacker and the physical one for pure fun. :) They can actually work as a Hasty/Naive mixed attackers, it's not like it can stay long in a battle, but still.... {XD}

 

[Megan]

You now what Pokemon I'd like to see improved? Phione.

It's pretty much Manaphy, but with lower stats and without all the moves that make Manaphy good. I mean, it doesn't even get a single status boosting move. It doesn't even learn Calm Mind, which is something a lot of Pokemon can learn (via TM that is), including Manaphy.

Any Water type Pokemon that you like, that isn't really that great?

 

[Hikamaru]

Any Water type Pokemon that you like, that isn't really that great?

Lumineon, definitely. You have to admit that for something that looks so beautiful, it's so forgettable with its dismal movepool and lousy 460 base stat total make it just looked at by people saying "it's beautiful but it sucks". Not being able to learn a good stat-boosting move means it literally has to rely on its Storm Drain ability and the rain in effect if it wants any strength to come out of it.

 

[Sun]

You now what Pokemon I'd like to see improved? Phione.

It's pretty much Manaphy, but with lower stats and without all the moves that make Manaphy good. I mean, it doesn't even get a single status boosting move. It doesn't even learn Calm Mind, which is something a lot of Pokemon can learn (via TM that is), including Manaphy.

Any Water type Pokemon that you like, that isn't really that great?

Any Water type Pokemon that you like, that isn't really that great?

Lumineon, definitely. You have to admit that for something that looks so beautiful, it's so forgettable with its dismal movepool and lousy 460 base stat total make it just looked at by people saying "it's beautiful but it sucks". Not being able to learn a good stat-boosting move means it literally has to rely on its Storm Drain ability and the rain in effect if it wants any strength to come out of it.

This is interesting. I'm not sure if Nichole remembers it, at one point we brought up the 'issue' with Water Pokemon's low base stat, I was really caught in surprised for that! But then, it's a way to balance the type. :)

Having said that, there are those with great potential like the Lumineon line as Nichole pointed out. I would like to share too, but I'll elaborate on my next post! XD Otherwise this is gonna be one bulky post.

 

[Hikamaru]

This is interesting. I'm not sure if Nichole remembers it, at one point we brought up the 'issue' with Water Pokemon's low base stat, I was really caught in surprised for that! But then, it's a way to balance the type. :)

You are right because Water is meant to be a balanced type, and with its huge number of Pokemon it's clear that we cannot make the type too overpowered. That's why you don't really see one stat dominating with Water compared to other types, and that's why the Pokemon are a mix of both offensive and defensive.

 

[Sun]

You are right because Water is meant to be a balanced type, and with its huge number of Pokemon it's clear that we cannot make the type too overpowered. That's why you don't really see one stat dominating with Water compared to other types, and that's why the Pokemon are a mix of both offensive and defensive.

Well the Water-type isn't fluid for nothing.

I'd love to see a speedy Water-type Pokemon that inflicts status problem. They better have Prankster as their Ability.

 

[Megan]

Lumineon, definitely. You have to admit that for something that looks so beautiful, it's so forgettable with its dismal movepool and lousy 460 base stat total make it just looked at by people saying "it's beautiful but it sucks". Not being able to learn a good stat-boosting move means it literally has to rely on its Storm Drain ability and the rain in effect if it wants any strength to come out of it.

I actually know somebody who bred himself a Lumineon once and EV'd it in such a way that it could counter Garchomp.

You are right because Water is meant to be a balanced type, and with its huge number of Pokemon it's clear that we cannot make the type too overpowered. That's why you don't really see one stat dominating with Water compared to other types, and that's why the Pokemon are a mix of both offensive and defensive.

It's the most diverse type, but as the most diverse type, you definitely would expect some Pokemon to be overpowered. In fact, Manaphy was overpowered in gen 5, back when Rain was permanent. Same with Kyogre.

I'd love to see a speedy Water-type Pokemon that inflicts status problem. They better have Prankster as their Ability.

For some odd reason I imagine Surskit to be a good candidate for Prankster. It doesn't have the best moves to utilize it well and its stats aren't that great, but at least it looks like it could be pretty fast and prankstery. Just sad that it loses its Water typing upon evolution...

Or, you know, we could just create our own Prankster Water type Pokemon. Because club activities. {XD}

 

[Sun]

I actually know somebody who bred himself a Lumineon once and EV'd it in such a way that it could counter Garchomp.

It's the most diverse type, but as the most diverse type, you definitely would expect some Pokemon to be overpowered. In fact, Manaphy was overpowered in gen 5, back when Rain was permanent. Same with Kyogre.

For some odd reason I imagine Surskit to be a good candidate for Prankster. It doesn't have the best moves to utilize it well and its stats aren't that great, but at least it looks like it could be pretty fast and prankstery. Just sad that it loses its Water typing upon evolution...

Or, you know, we could just create our own Prankster Water type Pokemon. Because club activities. {XD}

Tell us about this Lumineon, to be honest stat wise that is nearly-impossible. But nearly-impossible doesn't mean completely impossible, Pachirisu is one of the example of making thing possible.

Well, in a sense, Swampert was overpowered during Gen III. If there were anything that can counter it, Sceptile would be one of the few Grass Pokemon. There are other non-legend examples too, but my mind is a bit blank for now, can't give you examples.

Surskit is one unfortunate Pokemon, Masquerain could have been memorable for having Water/Bug as its typing. Surskit is the only Pokémon to resist both Ice and Ground type moves, that makes the Bug Pokemon an interesting Pokemon in competitive if only it had a usable base stat.

 

[Megan]

Tell us about this Lumineon, to be honest stat wise that is nearly-impossible. But nearly-impossible doesn't mean completely impossible, Pachirisu is one of the example of making thing possible.

Tbh. I don't have any details on it. He doesn't like talking about the sets he's using, but I know that he made it during DPPt, so it's already been a while. {XD}

I didn't really care for competitive until gen 6, but I know that one of the first Pokemon I used on such a team was a Vaporean. It did quite well at stalling out my opponents.

 

[Sun]

Tbh. I don't have any details on it. He doesn't like talking about the sets he's using, but I know that he made it during DPPt, so it's already been a while. {XD}

I didn't really care for competitive until gen 6, but I know that one of the first Pokemon I used on such a team was a Vaporean. It did quite well at stalling out my opponents.

Awww... Wish I could try it. But it's obviously bulk and I wouldn't be surprised if it has a Bold Nature.

Well Vaporeon was at least featured in OU at least thrice, nothing less I expect from it. ;)

 

[Megan]

Awww... Wish I could try it. But it's obviously bulk and I wouldn't be surprised if it has a Bold Nature.

You could still try to make your own. If you do, you can share it here.

That's actually another interesting thing we could do here: everyone takes a Pokemon and creates a set for it. After they are finished, they present it here and explain what it does. Doesn't even need to be a competitive set; it could be an ingame one as well. The more exotic and unusual it is, the better. :)

 

[Sun]

You could still try to make your own. If you do, you can share it here.

That's actually another interesting thing we could do here: everyone takes a Pokemon and creates a set for it. After they are finished, they present it here and explain what it does. Doesn't even need to be a competitive set; it could be an ingame one as well. The more exotic and unusual it is, the better. :)

I would love to make experiments, but the three clubs I own are stressing me for a bit. XD

EDIT:
Here's a rather laid back convo and chat.~ Please quote each others' responses so we can make a real fun convo! ^_^
What fun activities would you do with your aquatic Pokemon? And why these activities in particular, are you great at these activities?

 

[Hikamaru]

What fun activities would you do with your aquatic Pokemon? And why these activities in particular, are you great at these activities?

I'd do a lot of swimming with them, or in the case of a Lapras or Wailmer, ride on it just like their special surfing sprites in 6th Gen. And why do I enjoy swimming? I'm a natural lover of water (fitting considering I live in a country literally surrounded by water) and I often enjoyed swimming lessons at school back in the day.

 

[ProfChaos]

What fun activities would you do with your aquatic Pokemon? And why these activities in particular, are you great at these activities?

Fave water pkm is Starmie with Kabutops close behind.

if i could, i'd use starmie like a boomerang weapon. Looks like it would really hurt smacking someone in the face and be extremely comical looking to boot lol. (especially if they weren't expecting it)