Do Video Games Turn People Sexist?

[Pinkie-Dawn]

This is the latest controversy surrounding the video game industry (sort of a follow-up to the violent video games thread we have before), and it's still being discussed to this day. Do you think video games turn people sexist, or is it just as ridiculous as violent video games turning people violent irl?

 

[machomuu]

To the second question, yes. Moreso, actually, as violence is mostly a taboo, while women/men are something that you come across in everyday life. They're kind of difficult to avoid, so even creating this image in your head of what women/men are like based on video ga- actually, scratch video games, media portrayals and then, going further, taking those portrayals and discriminating against them...I mean, you can see how much of a stretch that is.

To the first, about as much as pretty much anything else. I don't think video games specifically have any special power or attraction that would allow this more than any other medium or alternative influence. I think it depends far more on the person than it does on VG.

And, also, I don't see video games making people sexist being any sort of hot button topic, certainly not the latest one. Would I say that sexism can tend to pervade various parts of the video game scene? Absolutely, and there are articles upon articles written about that, but video games making people sexist? Not so much, but I'd be interested to know who's asserting this idea.

 

[Psychic]

I don't think the argument is necessarily that video games turn you sexist.

Rather, when we see that video games, like any other form of media, tend to primarily represent women in one of a handful of really sexist or otherwise stereotypical ways, it basically reinforces a lot of sexist notions that we as a society already hold. For young/impressionable players, this may have a larger impact, but even for those who aren't, if you play a lot of video games where women are constantly represented the same way and aren't given equal treatment to men, then that can have an effect on you, even if it's a small one. Studies have been showing since the 1990's that the entertainment we consume does have an effect on us.

It's impossible to refute that sexism is a huge problem in both the video game industry and the general community. It's pretty obvious that this is at least somewhat related to the fact that video games themselves can be pretty sexist. I think the industry is the cause of all of this. Things are slowly getting better, but this should never have been an issue to begin with.

Frankly, it is exhausting as a woman seeing that so many female characters in video games fall into the same boring, sexist tropes. It tells me that my experiences will never be represented with the same attention and depth that men get by default. That's obviously not the intention, but that's the effect, and in 2016 we shouldn't put up with that.

~Psychic

 

[Crizzle]

If video games are sexist, it is a reflection of society not the other way around.

 

[donavannj]

It's impossible to refute that sexism is a huge problem in both the video game industry and the general community. It's pretty obvious that this is at least somewhat related to the fact that video games themselves can be pretty sexist. I think the industry is the cause of all of this. Things are slowly getting better, but this should never have been an issue to begin with.

Rather than the games themselves specifically, it's more a byproduct of the community having a sizable portion of males who only associate with males and do not know how to associate with females, let alone write a worthwhile female character, and that element just feeds on itself in terms of spiraling sexism.

It's a byproduct of the stereotype that "video games are for boys" and the associated marketing that steers girls away from video games and towards the stereotypical girl interests.

It's because it's historically been male-dominated that it is sexist to an extent, rather than because the games themselves are sexist. You do see it in sports to an extent, too.

Frankly, it is exhausting as a woman seeing that so many female characters in video games fall into the same boring, sexist tropes. It tells me that my experiences will never be represented with the same attention and depth that men get by default. That's obviously not the intention, but that's the effect, and in 2016 we shouldn't put up with that.

~Psychic

This change will probably need to come from an industry leader of one of the major publishers or consoles deciding that "yes, school-age girls are a demographic we actually are seriously interested in pursuing" to slowly/rapidly lead a demographic and stereotype shift before it gets noticed. We're probably some years out from someone actually having the guts to bring this "revolutionary" idea forth and stick to it.


TL;DR: Sexist games are a symptom rather than the root cause.

 

[Psychic]

Rather than the games themselves specifically, it's more a byproduct of the community having a sizable portion of males who only associate with males and do not know how to associate with females, let alone write a worthwhile female character, and that element just feeds on itself in terms of spiraling sexism.

It's a byproduct of the stereotype that "video games are for boys" and the associated marketing that steers girls away from video games and towards the stereotypical girl interests.

It's because it's historically been male-dominated that it is sexist to an extent, rather than because the games themselves are sexist. You do see it in sports to an extent, too.

It sounds like we're in agreement on the cause of sexism in video games - that's what I meant by "I think the industry is the cause of all of this."

To add some more context, looking at the history of gaming, the undystry was male-dominated even at the beginning because "not many women held bachelor's and master's degrees in computer science and engineering" at the time, but sexism weren't really a problem (no more than it was in any other industry, anyway). Additionally, video games weren't marketed specifically towards any demographic. The stereotype that "video games are for boys" happened as a result of the North American recession in the video game industry in 1983, when they had to target their advertising more precisely, and they decided the target market was little boys. We've pretty much been going backwards since.

I pretty much agree with your post. :>

~Psychic

 

[machomuu]

It sounds like we're in agreement on the cause of sexism in video games - that's what I meant by "I think the industry is the cause of all of this."

To add some more context, looking at the history of gaming, the undystry was male-dominated even at the beginning because "not many women held bachelor's and master's degrees in computer science and engineering" at the time, but sexism weren't really a problem (no more than it was in any other industry, anyway). Additionally, video games weren't marketed specifically towards any demographic. The stereotype that "video games are for boys" happened as a result of the North American recession in the video game industry in 1983, when they had to target their advertising more precisely, and they decided the target market was little boys. We've pretty much been going backwards since.

I pretty much agree with your post. :>

~Psychic

I'd agree to some extent, but I don't particularly think that the reason gaming's so male oriented today is the fault of VG's past so much as it is a media problem as a whole. It could be seen as a part of it, but today gaming isn't nearly as male-oriented or, in terms of the industry now, as much of a boy's club as it used to be. All in all, badly written women are something of a problem across games, anime, and movies, so much to the point that I specifically look for it. And I think this comes from the fact that writing in gaming can often borrow from other media. You'll see games that are written like shows and movies to emulate real people acting out a performance in an attempt to make the player forget the screen's even there. Cartoony games can be reminiscent of cartoons, anime-styled games anime (or criss-cross).

Of course, not to say that game writing is inherently influenced by other media, because I don't think that's true, but I definitely feel that the problems that we see in female characters in games isn't really exclusive to video games, nor do I think it's a greater example of it due to the fact that it can tend to pander, since all media can. Because as an avid gamer, I can think of a good few female characters in games that I actively enjoy, and similarly, as someone who often plays as female characters when given the chance, I haven't really felt they were made worse for it.

So while I agree with some of the notions that you and Don are spitting, and while I can understand why you'd say that games' roots are the cause (because it was male dominated and marketed towards male kids for most of its early life), I'd say that it being a problem today is at least mostly unrelated and that the problem isn't so much the game industry, but the various popular media as a whole and their portrayal of women.

 

[Lunaris Adamantine]

I don't really have much to say on this topic. I can understand the stance people have against violence, to an extent. But saying video games cause sexism is just plain stupid. They are no more a cause of sexism (Or violence, for that matter) than movies, television, or even books.

 

[Sir Codin]

It really all boils down to people asking three questions:

Are video games sexist? (They are to some extent)
Do video games cause sexism? (Not any more than anything else)
Should this sexism be censored? (It shouldn't)

 

[Jauntier]

If you don't know how to differentiate between the extraordinary fantasy realms of video games and the typicality of real, civilized life, then I think the problem lies with the antisocial player who chooses to pick apart and form these poor perspectives of real people from characters and caricatures, than it is a collective problem of the virtual entertainment industry.

I think it is a non-issue. What are they going to change? Should the men slim down to a slightly toned build and wear A-neck tees, and the women wear capris pants with a wider waist size in these Japanese brawlers? Should we have more male prostitutes for a female protagonist to murder in our American sandbox felony simulators? What even are the complaints?

 

[Frequency]

"Video Games don't cause school shootings."

I'm just gonna use the argument of that for this case. I don't think Video Games have enough of an effect on an individual to make someone sexist, and if it did, they were probably sexist to begin with, they were just hiding it in the closet.

 

[Midnight shadow]

As others have said, video games are no more at fault than any other type of media. That said, I do believe that people overreact to things in the media, and video games get a larger dose of the blame. Just because I play a game doesn't mean I'm going to act like the characters from that game in real life.

I'm reminded at this point of a story I read a while ago about Smite (the moba based on mythology) where people wanted it shut down for over-sexualising women. But actually in that game all the artists did was take the representations of the characters from period artwork. But of course you would never dream of trying to censor period artwork in this day and age.

The way I see it is media of any type isn't going to appeal to everyone, but just because you find something distasteful doesn't mean you have the right to stop other people viewing it. I find shows like Southpark and Family Guy very distasteful so guess what? I DON'T WATCH IT.

 

[mew_nani]

Games make people sexist? Is that supposed to be a joke?

I don't know of a single person who started playing video games and looked at women in more sexist way because they played them. Even with all the games where women are more or less sexy props to be looked at nobody plays those and then looks down on women because of that.

There are often problems in general with how women are presented in games (far too little clothing, impossible figures, giant boobs, that kind of thing) but that's more a thing because of the way society is, not because the games themselves cause that. (There's quite a few women in games that aren't just meaningless pin-up girls that are very good characters in their own right. Even women that serve as damsels in distress can be strong characters and not just somebody to be saved by some strong guy character - though really I don't really have a problem with that one because the damsel in distress thing has been a trope for centuries; it's a very common theme in oral and written media for a very long time and it can be done well so there's no reason to really knock on it. It does annoy me though when women are presented as barely clothed with giant airbags, especially considering most women don't dress like that or have that figure.)

 

[TheBadPixels]

Don't you think they're a little confusing?

 

[Somewhere_]

It really all boils down to people asking three questions:

Are video games sexist? (They are to some extent)
Do video games cause sexism? (Not any more than anything else)
Should this sexism be censored? (It shouldn't)

I agree 100%. Im not going to claim video games are or are not sexist. Some may be, some may not be. I highly doubt it causes sexism, like violence, but it should never be censored for any reason.

If people do not like a video game because it is sexist, hurt the company making the game. Boycott their products and stuff. They will mostly likely change with enough demand.

 

[Fannie]

There's sexualization of women in video games. I don't consider that to be sexist. The majority of gamers are male and the majority of them like women. It's a tactic to boost sales, it's not turning anyone sexist that wasn't to begin with and I don't consider it a problem. At least not a notable one. The amount of time I see feminists treating this as a serious issue makes me question their priorities.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

There's sexualization of women in video games. I don't consider that to be sexist. The majority of gamers are male and the majority of them like women. It's a tactic to boost sales, it's not turning anyone sexist that wasn't to begin with and I don't consider it a problem. At least not a notable one. The amount of time I see feminists treating this as a serious issue makes me question their priorities.

Tell me about it. Instead of prioritizing on the horrid treatment of women in third world countries, they instead prioritize on video games and their portrayal of women, even when some of them provide good role models (Samus, Bayonetta, Chell, etc.). Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian are essentially the new Jack Thompson.

 

[crimsoncero]

There's sexualization of women in video games. I don't consider that to be sexist. The majority of gamers are male and the majority of them like women. It's a tactic to boost sales, it's not turning anyone sexist that wasn't to begin with and I don't consider it a problem. At least not a notable one. The amount of time I see feminists treating this as a serious issue makes me question their priorities.

I agree on that, but to add on it, I think people prefer to look at video games alone instead of other medias, because video games have yet to become fully recognized as a proper medium. Because of that, it's easier to call out video games to be violent and sexiest than to do so to films, music or any other established media. It's like having to choose if to fight a child or an adult, of course you will fight the child if it will get your message around. (Please don't spin this example... please).

But, as an industry that want to be recognized as capable and beneficial as much as other medias, it needs to grow up. There should be more games touching topics like sexuality, gender, religion and so on. Very much like any other media, games will slowly take their place with the other. In ancient Rome, actors were depicted as the lowest filth, even lower than whores. Movies could not touch subjects in the way they can today.

There is a lot of hate on games and everything involving it, mostly, I believe, because people fear what they do not know. Even today, we can see how games slowly becoming more and more influential, from games that touch controversial topics(Persona 4 for example), to the community using games for a greater cause(Games Done Quick). So do video games turn people sexist? Society does, and society also makes games, so in part yes, but it's not something you can solve by fighting games, but rather by fighting primitive beliefs across the world.

 

[Her]

Tell me about it. Instead of prioritizing on the horrid treatment of women in third world countries, they instead prioritize on video games and their portrayal of women, even when some of them provide good role models (Samus, Bayonetta, Chell, etc.). Feminists like Anita Sarkeesian are essentially the new Jack Thompson.

Not only can people balance more than a single issue at once, this is just a rewritten 'there are children starving in Africa!' dismissal. The existence of a bigger, more emotionally grabbing issue doesn't negate the existence of this one. The average feminist is hardly in a position to make any sort of impact or wide statement on the problematic (I hate using that word) status of women in various countries around the world - you can hardly expect them to be given a podium at the United Nations or directly influencing foreign policy. Of course, that brings up a whole other issue of why we feel the need to 'liberate' certain women from certain countries, but I digress. So naturally many feminists are going to focus on something a lot more tangible and accessible in their own land, an industry and community with a controversial history in regards to women & feminism. It's just irritating to see total dismissal based on not wanting women to raise valid points & look critically at a very important medium in shaping people today.

 

[Fannie]

Not only can people balance more than a single issue at once, this is just a rewritten 'there are children starving in Africa!' dismissal. The existence of a bigger, more emotionally grabbing issue doesn't negate the existence of this one. The average feminist is hardly in a position to make any sort of impact or wide statement on the problematic (I hate using that word) status of women in various countries around the world - you can hardly expect them to be given a podium at the United Nations or directly influencing foreign policy. Of course, that brings up a whole other issue of why we feel the need to 'liberate' certain women from certain countries, but I digress. So naturally many feminists are going to focus on something a lot more tangible and accessible in their own land, an industry and community with a controversial history in regards to women & feminism. It's just irritating to see total dismissal based on not wanting women to raise valid points & look critically at a very important medium in shaping people today.

But is it a feminist issue though? There are just as many muscular male characters in games that lack personality. Maybe if there were more female gamers more of these characters would be sexualised, who knows. And there's nothing wrong with that. Being sexy never dehumanised anyone and I find the concept of that more sexist than anything. Bayonetta (I know, she gets brought up all the time in these debates) having curves and being flirtatious doesn't detract from her humor, backstory or her b*dassery. There's much more to the game than sex.