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Do you think Soviet Union is coming back?

Jabberwocky

A man ain't nothin' but a man
91
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  • Ah yes, the paranoia, espionage, nuclear tensions, forceful redistribution of wealth at the expense of the market economy, and the eventual extinction of producers. Not to mention the system thriving on coercion and concepts that can only be put into practice by means of totalitarianism.

    Truly communism is such a wonderful concept. 8=====>

    You exaggerate and misrepresent the tenets of Marxism. Obviously the redistribution of wealth will come at the expense of a market economy, that's the whole damn point. Furthermore, the USSR can in no way be held responsible for Cold War tensions - the US is at least equally guilty there (remember, the Cold War was the beginning of the military-industrial complex and part of the reason detente was reached during the Cuban Missile Crisis was due to Khrushchev's fears of an imminent military coup in the United States). Furthermore, it is patently absurd to suggest that Marxist ideals can only be achieved through totalitarianism (now, pure Marxism might since that entails a violent revolution of the proletariat, which would naturally create a large reactionary base), since Socialist or semi-Socialist policies are already in place in a number of very much democratic nations.

    I am not a pure Marxist (I'm more a democratic Socialist in the vein of Eugene Debs), but these blanket generalizations of Marxism never fail to make my eyes roll, especially since most of them are internalized through the effects of American propaganda from the Cold War (when painting Communism as a soul-crushing, evil system was obviously in the political interests).

    Getting back to the original topic, while Putin's goals are as they always have been a reassertion of Russian dominance on the international stage (see: Chechnya, Georgia, et al), he's not going to try to revive the Soviet Union. What would be the point? While there is a great deal of Soviet nostalgia in Russia, that hardly translates to official policy. Step-by-step annexation of territory as Russian federal subjects is a far more efficient process than reviving the USSR, and one that affords more nominal legitimacy in the view of most of the world Putin cares about placating.
     
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    twocows

    The not-so-black cat of ill omen
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  • Ah yes, the paranoia, espionage, nuclear tensions, forceful redistribution of wealth at the expense of the market economy, and the eventual extinction of producers. Not to mention the system thriving on coercion and concepts that can only be put into practice by means of totalitarianism.

    Truly communism is such a wonderful concept. 8=====>
    I think this was more just from the USSR's poor implementation of communism (I don't see anything inherently wrong with communism), but I do agree that a return to Soviet Russia is about the stupidest thing anyone could ever wish for.
     
    9,468
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  • Naw, its highly unlikely. Its just Russia projecting its last gasps for influence on the world stage, which is very much regional. As was seen with the recent Russia-China gas deal, Russia is wholly dependent on the energy market to keep its economy afloat.

    Plus the reason why Putin really did react in such a manner is because NATO is essentially encircling Russia since the end of the Cold War. Its a reflexive action to try and keep its borders secure in a 20th century fashion anyways.
     

    Crux

    Evermore
    1,302
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  • I think a major amount of western media wants you to think that the Soviet Union is going to make a return.
    Honestly, I'm more worried about this country becoming something as bad, if not worse. Here, you've got an administration that can essentially call all of it's opposition and critics racist, and get away with it. In other words, if you question the 'leader', then you're crucified socially as some sort of hateful bastard. The middle class is disappearing, more and more illegal aliens are being able to enter, and stay in the country. Education is constantly hitting new lows, right behind the dollar, and on top of all that, Obama is trying to start a new world war. Did I mention that he can now rewrite the Constitution, now?
    How is this relevant? Almost every media outlet paints Obama as this great leader. He's a real American hero! The first black president! Meanwhile, Putin, and anyone else who doesn't bow down to the U.S gets made out to be a villain. Hence is why the idea of the Soviet Union coming back is suddenly being pushed.

    Any of this sound familiar?
     

    Jabberwocky

    A man ain't nothin' but a man
    91
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  • I think this was more just from the USSR's poor implementation of communism (I don't see anything inherently wrong with communism), but I do agree that a return to Soviet Russia is about the stupidest thing anyone could ever wish for.
    Stalin was the main problem, honestly. His purges stagnated the USSR's progress towards Communism and turned the Soviet Union into an effective technocracy.
     

    Ivysaur

    Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
    21,082
    Posts
    17
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  • Honestly, I'm more worried about this country becoming something as bad, if not worse. Here, you've got an administration that can essentially call all of it's opposition and critics racist, and get away with it. In other words, if you question the 'leader', then you're crucified socially as some sort of hateful bastard. The middle class is disappearing, more and more illegal aliens are being able to enter, and stay in the country. Education is constantly hitting new lows, right behind the dollar, and on top of all that, Obama is trying to start a new world war. Did I mention that he can now rewrite the Constitution, now?
    How is this relevant? Almost every media outlet paints Obama as this great leader. He's a real American hero! The first black president! Meanwhile, Putin, and anyone else who doesn't bow down to the U.S gets made out to be a villain. Hence is why the idea of the Soviet Union coming back is suddenly being pushed.

    Any of this sound familiar?

    an administration that can essentially call all of it's opposition and critics racist

    Because that's what they... are.. doing? Examples please?

    if you question the 'leader', then you're crucified socially as some sort of hateful bastard.

    Yeah, because you won't find dozens of media outlets, including some very mainstream ones such as Fox or the WSJournal doing so and getting away with it. Oh, and the State administrations in several States. And half of Congress. And dozens of millions of Americans. Including you. And everybody finds it normal, except the people who criticize Obama, who happen to complain about not being allowed to criticize Obama. What?

    The middle class is disappearing

    And that has nothing to do with anything happening around Wall Street since the early 2000's.

    more and more illegal aliens are being able to enter

    Like the parents of everybody currently living in the US except for the natives. Did I mention there is an immigration bill waiting for the Republicans in the House only so it can try to fix that problem?

    Education is constantly hitting new lows

    States have a lot to say about that too.

    right behind the dollar

    Which is still the world's reserve currency and the one used for most (as in, 90%) of the international trade.

    Obama is trying to start a new world war

    That's why he solved the Syrian standoff with a diplomatic agreement and hasn't done anything about Ukraine even when he has had many chances to do so already.

    Did I mention that he can now rewrite the Constitution, now?

    Well, apparently the Constitution doesn't give him that power so no, he can't.

    Almost every media outlet paints Obama as this great leader

    You have a amazingly weird concept of "almost". Not only there is a noticeable balance over in the US, there is also a great disagreement about his figure outside, and a general international consensus is that he is failing to do anything because of the giant divisions created in the US since his elections, that have polarized politics and made progress on any issue almost impossible.

    Putin, and anyone else who doesn't bow down to the U.S gets made out to be a villain.

    Well, the Conservative media loves those guys, and are now making Putin to be a great leader that makes Obama look like a fool.

    I'm sorry, but your post feels like a collection of conservative talking points they keep repeating to make themselves feel that they are the minority voice of reason instead of just one of the two majority forces in the country- and that there are almost as many of them as there are opponents.
     

    Crux

    Evermore
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  • No offense, Pal, but that's a pretty naive statement.

    The dollar has continuously lost it's value since Obama, and Bush before him, took office.

    The Obama administration has also insinuated that their opposers are racist for their entire run. Whether or not they actually ever have outright said it, I'll admit my ingorence to. Though they may as well have.

    You gave me a great example, actually, about what happens to people who don't like him. Fox News. The public mostly agrees that Fox News is this ridiculous network that always skews their stories. And they're right. But it doesn't do that anymore than CNN does. The difference? Which one is the Democratic one?
    There's no diffence for the average Joe, either. I've been called racist for not hailing the great black president, I know people who've been called racist, hell, I know a guy who is himself black and he's been called racist.

    As for the comment about the middle class disappearing, haven't you noticed it? I travel a lot, and from first hand experience, I can say that most of the middle class is becoming poor, or rich. All while both of those classification become more extreme.

    I can agree with you that the Native Americans are the rightful owners of this land, however, do you not remember the American Indian wars? The Natives lost this land, in a very bloody way. Is it right? No. But it a way it was conquest, not illegal immigration. The Mexican people on the other hand are just coming here to feed off of a country that already exists, not to create or expand.
    And I guess you don't know, but Obama wrote an executive order that will grant amnesty to all illegal aliens who sign up for Obamacare. Google it, you'll see.

    As for education, the government has a responsibility to uphold that, as much as possible. However, Obama's wife has very clearly damned the school lunch, and they've continued to neglect the entire system. There's a reason why school crime rates are rising, lately. That's a whole 'nother matter, though.

    China and Russia have recently made a 400$ Billon dollar gas deal. There's talk that they will replace the Petrodollar with a different currency. This means a lost space on the reserve, for the U.S. Dollar.

    Obama has for some time now been antagonising Russia. If you've been keeping up on the news then you should know that.

    He recently also wrote up another executive order, allowing him to make changes to the constitution. Google it, you'll see. You shouldn't be very surprised about this, though. During a radio interview back in '01, he described the Constitution as "Deeply Flawed".

    I was speaking more domestically when I said that he's painted as a great man, and referring to the fact that most mainstream media is wildly Democratic.

    Oh, and I don't consider myself to be of any political affiliation. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

    Now, since I've gone through the lengths of explaining my entire post, please just do a little research before you go attacking this one, okay?
     

    Ivysaur

    Grass dinosaur extraordinaire
    21,082
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  • The dollar has continuously lost it's value since Obama, and Bush before him, took office.

    Actually, uh, it has lost value since the day it was created, like every currency that ever existed in the world.

    Do you think Soviet Union is coming back?


    If you notice though, the rates have stabilized in the recent years- last year, inflation rate was 1.1%, compare that to 1850's 25%.

    Oh, and "loss of value of a currency" means nothing whatsoever if a) all other reserve currencies around lose their value at the same rate (check) and b) salaries grow at the same or at a faster rate (check).

    There is 0 difference whatsoever between paying $1 for a burger from my $100 salary or paying $10 from my $1000 income. It's just an extra 0 on the bill.

    The Obama administration has also insinuated that their opposers are racist for their entire run. Whether or not they actually ever have outright said it, I'll admit my ingorence to. Though they may as well have.

    "I don't know if I making this point up but since they are evil I'm going to assume they have probably done it"

    You gave me a great example, actually, about what happens to people who don't like him. Fox News. The public mostly agrees that Fox News is this ridiculous network that always skews their stories. And they're right. But it doesn't do that anymore than CNN does. The difference? Which one is the Democratic one?

    "The public". That's why Fox is the most watched cable news channel for years. That's why there are dozens of online conservative blogs/newspapers. Because people laugh at them.

    Obviously people who disagree with their ideas will laugh at them, but the opposite side of the aisle believes it very seriously.

    The democratic one? MSNBC. Although they are a bit more serious, I'll give you that.

    There's no diffence for the average Joe, either. I've been called racist for not hailing the great black president, I know people who've been called racist, hell, I know a guy who is himself black and he's been called racist.

    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    As for the comment about the middle class disappearing, haven't you noticed it? I travel a lot, and from first hand experience, I can say that most of the middle class is becoming poor, or rich. All while both of those classification become more extreme.

    Right. That's happening everywhere in the world. I have traveled- not around the US, but around Europe and South America, and that thing you say is very noticeable. Are you sure it's the fault of the President of the US alone that there are more poor and rich people in the UK, Spain, Germany and Argentina?

    I can agree with you that the Native Americans are the rightful owners of this land, however, do you not remember the American Indian wars? The Natives lost this land, in a very bloody way. Is it right? No. But it a way it was conquest, not illegal immigration. The Mexican people on the other hand are just coming here to feed off of a country that already exists, not to create or expand.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econo...ts_in_the_United_States#Cost-benefit_analysis

    Professor of Law Francine Lipman [57] writes that the belief that illegal migrants are exploiting the US economy and that they cost more in services than they contribute to the economy is "undeniably false". Lipman asserts that "illegal immigrants actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services" and "contribute to the U.S. economy through their investments and consumption of goods and services; filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs."[58]

    Aviva Chomsky, a professor at Salem State College, states that "Early studies in California and in the Southwest and in the Southeast...have come to the same conclusions. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are more likely to pay taxes than they are to use public services. illegal immigrants aren't eligible for most public services and live in fear of revealing themselves to government authorities. Households headed by illegal immigrants use less than half the amount of federal services that households headed by documented immigrants or citizens make use of."[59]

    And I guess you don't know, but Obama wrote an executive order that will grant amnesty to all illegal aliens who sign up for Obamacare. Google it, you'll see.

    Okay. I'm a journalist. If I ever wrote an article citing "google" as a source, I'd be fired a second later.

    But yeah, let's check google.

    Spoiler:


    Notice anything? All results are either

    a) Boehner wants amnesty
    b) Conservative Media: National Review, National Report, Heritage, Washington Times... I'm unable to find any non-Republican source for your claims. Mind offering me one? A link to the Executive Order itself (they are available online) would be sweet.

    China and Russia have recently made a 400$ Billon dollar gas deal. There's talk that they will replace the Petrodollar with a different currency. This means a lost space on the reserve, for the U.S. Dollar.

    Tell me when they create that different currency.

    Obama has for some time now been antagonising Russia. If you've been keeping up on the news then you should know that.

    The US have been antagonizing Russia for some time. As in, both sides. Because it sells.

    https://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/26/romney-russia-is-our-number-one-geopolitical-foe/
    https://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/22/mccain-calls-russia-a-gas-station/

    He recently also wrote up another executive order, allowing him to make changes to the constitution. Google it, you'll see.

    No. I haven't seen. Links please.

    Not to mention that if he had truly done that, it would have made the news anywhere, not just obscure websites you need to google to find.

    You shouldn't be very surprised about this, though. During a radio interview back in '01, he described the Constitution as "Deeply Flawed".

    And that means he's going to change it unilaterally. Okay.

    I was speaking more domestically when I said that he's painted as a great man, and referring to the fact that most mainstream media is wildly Democratic.

    Washington Times, NYPost, WSJ, Fox, all the websites I quoted before.

    Oh, and I don't consider myself to be of any political affiliation. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

    "I quote all the Republican talking points but I'm not affiliated".
     
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  • Ivysaur with the TKO

    The US is nothing close to the soviet Union, never has been, never will be. If you think that Joseph Stalin and Barack Obama are similar, you need your head checked.

    Unless there's a second Bolshevik revolution, or another hostile takeover of Russia by the Proletariat, the USSR is not coming back. Even if that's what Putin's aiming for.
     
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  • Did the Soviet Union matter necessarily because it was communist?

    What about the fact that it was a major geopolitical force with a threatening military and economy and its ability to undermine American hegemony by supporting opposing regimes? If that's what Putin is going for then I think it's plausible for the "Soviet Union" to return as the #1 impediment to traditional US foreign policy. I'd see it having to compromise more often than it has in history, although that's not a bad thing. The big fat blob spanning much of Europe and Asia can threaten American oversea interests without exporting a different economic model.
     

    for him.

    I'm trash.
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    No I don't think so. The Soviet Union failed for a numerous amount of reasons, and for it to come back from all it's setbacks would be somewhat of a miracle, in my opinion. That's my two cents, but I doubt it's worth much. I haven't looked at European History in a couple of years, so it's hard to recall. D:
     

    PokemonLeagueChamp

    Traveling Hoenn once more.
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  • It is possible that something like the Soviet Union might come back with slightly altered ways of doing things, but I rather doubt it. What is more likely, and what we have been seeing, is a Russia that regresses to Soviet sentiments, behaves in a similar manner to the Soviet Union on the global political stage, and perhaps, through engaging in actions like those they have made in Georgia and Ukraine, rekindle a cold war with the west. Perhaps it will never reach Cuban Missile Crisis levels of intensity again, but it is possible that the old frictions will re-emerge.
     

    Hackenfall Backslash

    The weirdest mofo you'll ever meet . . . seriously
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  • Nope. Russia (like every nation on Earth) is afraid of America. All it takes is a presidential wag of the finger, and the country that is messing up returns to its corner, mumbling under its breath. Call me crazy, but the only nation I think could actually defy the United States and get people talking is China, for obvious reasons.
     
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