Fanfiction Lounge

[purple_drake]

How do you treat the subject of character death?

Carefully.

Like everyone else, I'm not fond of gratuitous character deaths, but at the same time a death doesn't necessarily need to be 'meaningful' either. Certainly, if the character were a main character, then the death would have to affect the story--because they're so directly involved in the events that a lot of what comes afterward would be affected by it--but if done well then a 'meaningless' death, like an accident, could be just as poignant. Which I suppose is another way of being meaningful to the story...

I'd take into consideration the situation itself. If a situation is realistically dangerous enough for a character to die, I wouldn't be opposed to it even if it didn't end up spurring the protagonists on to greater heights or something. Let's face it, death comes as death comes, and not necessarily in any 'meaningful' way (which in itself can be pretty angsty for the characters who are left behind, wondering why the hell that person had to die in that way instead of this way...).

Uhm, yeah, so mostly I'd consider the situation and how dangerous it is (I'm a fan of whumpage and hurt/comfort, so I'm more likely to have my major characters injured and possibly scarred) but also, from a purely practical point of view, the character's role in the story. Sometimes a character just might not have any place in a story after a certain point, but has been too involved in the story up until then to just realistically move away or leave the business or whatever other ideas there might be for getting rid of them. Although, one of those options at least leaves it open for them to return if needed... which, depending on their relationship to the protagonist, might not necessarily be a good idea. It depends on what's happening.

In general, I like a few character deaths for realism's sake (because stories where everything turns out hunky-dorey and everyone gets married to each other and has ten kids and live happily ever after just kind of annoy me, especially when there was extreme physical danger involved in the story... at least have someone permanently scarred in some way, please!), just not too many. Although, I also have a tendency to get attached to characters and object to their deaths on a purely subjective basis. ^.^;;

Especially when we're talking in terms of fanfiction... I just realised that up until now I've been thinking in terms of stories in general. O.o I don't actually like reading fanfics in which the author kills off a canon character. ^.^;; Considering I've done exactly that in the past and will be doing so in the future, it's incredibly hypocritical of me to say that, so I should probably clarify by saying that I'm not fond of deathfics; that is, stories which are about the death and solely about the death. If they die in the course of some grand adventure (or near to, yanno, with a meaning and a reason and all that) then yeah, I can take it. I'd mourn, but I could take it. Especially if I was warned beforehand. :P

The kind of death I do not like is the 'final moment monologue' syndrome. It's just been done so many times, that when a character on the verge of death starts monologuing and you just know they're going to die at the end of it--or a few words short of the end of it--I start rolling my eyes. I wouldn't mind if they monologued, fell unconscious, then died a few hours later of their injuries without waking up again, but the timing is just... meh. I know it's good drama and all, but really.

That should come under the heading of 'not necessarily bad but tired and old', though, I suppose. Some of the other heroic cliches txteclipse has brought up tend to make me cringe too, for much the same reason. They're just so easily abused.

The other thing that gets me is when a person dies and doesn't stay dead. For comedic purposes--or the author is deliberately trying to make a point with it--yeah, okay. But usually the character needs to be brought back for a damn good reason before I'll accept it. There are some stories which I like in which that happens, but mostly it depends on how it's handled; if a character is brought back solely to get together with their romantic interest so they can live happily ever after or something like that, then no. Just no.

 

[Yamato-san]

Especially when we're talking in terms of fanfiction... I just realised that up until now I've been thinking in terms of stories in general. O.o I don't actually like reading fanfics in which the author kills off a canon character. ^.^;;

don't worry about it... even though I am careful about adapting certain game mechanics (I probably mentioned earlier about representing Pokemon stats), I've gotten to look at my ideas as stories by themselves a lot. As for the canon characters.... I too don't wanna kill any of them off (the only exception is someone whom I've based off of a background character, though technically, it's kinda half-canon half-original there). Given, I don't exactly intend to give them sugary sweet endings neither. In any case, I rarely involve canon characters altogether. The only story planned to heavily involve canon characters at all is a oneshot starring Kaede (the girl Ash faced in the Houen League), and my serial will feature a few canon characters but not many, most notably the miko sisters in Ecruteak City (and even so, I'm giving the characters original personalities and backgrounds, as it's still a unique canon despite the world being derived from the games).

The kind of death I do not like is the 'final moment monologue' syndrome. It's just been done so many times, that when a character on the verge of death starts monologuing and you just know they're going to die at the end of it--or a few words short of the end of it--I start rolling my eyes. I wouldn't mind if they monologued, fell unconscious, then died a few hours later of their injuries without waking up again, but the timing is just... meh. I know it's good drama and all, but really.

just making sure, but "monologuing" is when they give some long-winded speech and/or their life story, right? I don't intend to ever do that. Usually, if a character's suffering from a fatal wound and hacking up blood, but they have some last word they need to convey, it'd make sense to have them try and do so in as few lines as possible. If a character does have a death monologue, it should be before they commit suicide, as opposed to being injured and conveniently collapsing right after they finished talking. I'm also rather fond of having time seemingly slow down as you hear the final thoughts (instead of spoken dialog where they struggle just to say one syllable) of a character who's meeting their demise.

The other thing that gets me is when a person dies and doesn't stay dead. For comedic purposes--or the author is deliberately trying to make a point with it--yeah, okay. But usually the character needs to be brought back for a damn good reason before I'll accept it. There are some stories which I like in which that happens, but mostly it depends on how it's handled; if a character is brought back solely to get together with their romantic interest so they can live happily ever after or something like that, then no. Just no.

bleh, I know exactly what you mean. Seriously, if you like a character and want them to stay alive to the end of the series just for the hell of it, then just let them live. Don't give them so big dramatic death scene that's ruined when a reset button is completely pulled out of the author's ass. -_- And if there is a resurrection, at least make it sensible, preferably done through techniques that've been foreshadowed for a long time.

Spoiler:

Time for my usual anime/manga references.... I'd say Nausicaa did this alright. Hell, as much as the series is criticized nowadays, even Dragon Ball made sense of its resurrections... although they never really did much with most the characters who did come back. Also, the game Chrono Trigger.... one would expect it to just be common sense, seeing as it revolves around time-travel, but apparently, they played up the added bonus of a Chekhov's gun, in the form of a doll you're capable of obtaining as early as the beginning. ^^

If there was absolutely nothing leading up to it, however, it kinda shows that the author didn't know how the character would come back when they died (meaning they wanted them around to the end, albeit for no real purpose on the character's part a lot of the time, and just felt like giving them some cheap drama along the way without thinking of a decent way out of it beforehand), or even if they'd come back (in which case, they just succumbed to fanservice or something AFTER they planned an otherwise permanent death). Again, it's just salt to the wound if it's done through some completely out-of-nowhere deus ex machina.

Spoiler:

I enjoyed the anime Mai-HiME for the most part, but god damn, I hate the reset button it had to push for its ending. -_- Another example could be found in Pokemon: the Ruby/Sapphire adaption of the Special manga (god, Ruby ****ing fails as a character).

Some might also be willing to point out the recent Dialga vs. Palkia vs. Darkrai movie, however someone on SPPF makes a good point in its defense: after Latios and Lucario, they probably wanted to try something different and a little less expected. Also, given Palkia's space-warping powers, it's not entirely far-fetched neither.

 

[Grovyle42(Griff8416)]

I have a question. What if it's presumed that a character dies but it's never actually confirmed (i.e they never actually see the body or have living proof of the death)? Is it still in poor taste to have the character live even if they didn't actually die? (although the characters think they did). Keep in mind this would not be in result of nagging fans.

 

[Isaac Gravity]

I have a question. What if it's presumed that a character dies but it's never actually confirmed (i.e they never actually see the body or have living proof of the death)? Is it still in poor taste to have the character live even if they didn't actually die? (although the characters think they did). Keep in mind this would not be in result of nagging fans.

In the world of mecha (especially Super Robot Wars) if there's no body found even after the mech suffered loads of damage/blew up then the MIA can always come back with some form of plot armor simply because of the above reason regardless of how crazy the idea they survived all that seems.

Is it in bad taste? In the eyes of the beholder honestly. I'm pretty neutral towards these kinds of situations if I look at them in the above perspective. But... I guess its ultimately in how its all pulled off really. That's what I think anyway.

 

[txteclipse]

I actually kind of like "almost deaths" in which the author goes back and shows how the person didn't die. The reason they live is often one you don't expect, but makes perfect sense when you hear it.

However, I don't really like the "I lived because of blind luck" thing, unless it seems plausible. For illustration's sake, if someone has a nuke dropped on them, they aren't going to live unless there's some serious crap going on. On the other hand, if someone falls off a bridge, there's a chance they could be alive. I'd be more inclined to accept the latter, unless the former had a really good explanation.

 

[Scarlet Weather]

Actually, the whole "I fell but I'm still alive!" thing is the most common form of presumed-death experience and is becoming a bit cliche, in my opinion. Actually, I'm thinking of writing a parody-fic in which the characters push a villain over a bridge to his apparent death and then spend the rest of the story looking for him because, as the main character says, "Falling off a bridge to your apparent death is NEVER fatal in this kind of story!" Ah, but that's for another day.

Kakakyz, next question.

Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw paralells to religious beliefs?

Just a point of personal inquiry. I think the closest I get in the current draft of "Thief in the Night" is a short scene where Gale and a main character argue about the origin of life, and Gale loses the argument because he can't prove anything he's said up to that point any more then the other character can. It's kind of a gratuitous scene, though, so I'm wondering whether or not I should add something in that would add a little more plot exposition or develop the other character somehow. Hrmm...

 

[Percy Thrillington]

Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw paralells to religious beliefs?

An intellectual question, good work ACC.

Okay, at the end of my fan fiction, they begin to question if there is an afterlife, an a certain character knows whether there is or not, but won't tell, and the moral to do that is that you'll never know until the time comes, which is what I was trying to achieve... I didn't give to much away about the story there, did I? XD.

To add to that, I also have a topic to boost some life in here:

If you ever use music in your fan fiction, do you allow it to be real music, like something made by Paul McCartney, or do you create your own singer/band/song?

 

[Scarlet Weather]

Hmm...

In answer to that question, one of the "quirks" I wrote into "Thief in the Night" is that every chapter title is also the name of a song or a reference to a song. Chapter one is "Fall Out" by the Police, Chapter two is planned on being called "Synchronicity", also by The Police. But I don't really use music in the actual fic other than a short segment where it's stated that a band is playing a love song. Well, when I get around to drafting that part. Anyway, I try not to throw in real names because it feels a little.... gratuitous, and serves to confuse the Pokemon world with the real world. They are two very different places though they do share similarities. Plus it feels weird to throw an American (or even British) artist's work into a country based off of Japan. If anything, I'd mention Ayuko Tsuchiya or something like that. Problem is that I'm not knowledgable enough about Japanese culture and language to even attempt to give the Pokemon World a culture based heavily off of it, so I just opted to give it a culture pretty much distinctly its own. Phyres Island I'm taking more liberties with because it's not a "region" Per Se, and it has its own government separate from that of the other regions. As a result it's pretty distinct in culture and has differing laws particularly dealing with gun control, civil service, etc. Anyway, point is that I don't insert real-world artists because their music makes no real sense unless the culture is one that listens to that music heavily.

 

[Yamato-san]

actually, English songs ARE popular in Japan. You just don't see them crop up in anime as much as they do in our shows/movies because anime tend to go with original soundtracks (watch a news broadcast or a commercial, on the other hand, and they're bound to show up). Not only that, but a lot of series will refrain from making pop-culture references. I mean, there are some out there that do make such references, no denying that, but they're not in the majority, let alone the mainstream. Also, if a pop-culture reference is made, it's usually pandering towards otaku, as seen with Suzumiya Haruhi and Lucky Star (but again, there are exceptions to this... Bleach acknowledges Western artists on occasion, and the name Bleach itself is based off of an album, indicating a heavy music influence on Tite Kubo's part).

 

[Scarlet Weather]

See what I mean about knowing absolutely nothing about Japan? Yeah, I'm not even attempting to give the Pokemon world a culture that leans towards any particular country because of this. I could probably find this out with a bit of research, but I've always been more interested in Japan's history and folklore then their current culture. I know about weird things like the requiem ceremony for broken needles, but not about the music scene or the popular movies.

 

[Grovyle42(Griff8416)]

Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw paralells to religious beliefs?
No religion (except for some Arceus references).

If you ever use music in your fan fiction, do you allow it to be real music, like something made by Paul McCartney, or do you create your own singer/band/song?
I do use real music in my fic. Oasis and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, for example.

 

[Astinus]

Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw paralells to religious beliefs?
I used to in a previous draft of my OT fanfiction. Right now, though, there's no place for it, so there's nothing. I do still keep the idea of the Pokegods, with my character "praying" to them and cursing Dialga when she's late for school. But that's it so far.

If you ever use music in your fan fiction, do you allow it to be real music, like something made by Paul McCartney, or do you create your own singer/band/song?
I don't use any music. At all.

 

[Yamato-san]

See what I mean about knowing absolutely nothing about Japan? Yeah, I'm not even attempting to give the Pokemon world a culture that leans towards any particular country because of this. I could probably find this out with a bit of research, but I've always been more interested in Japan's history and folklore then their current culture. I know about weird things like the requiem ceremony for broken needles, but not about the music scene or the popular movies.

like I said, pop culture references (especially in comparison to our shows) are particularly low in most anime that I've seen. That said, you can make the setting seem inherently Japanese without actually delving into that sort of stuff (in fact, there's really no reason to go out of your way like that.... there's a difference between making the setting a particular culture, and then there's just trying too damn hard. Truthfully, I feel like I was doing the latter in my earlier versions ^^').

Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw paralells to religious beliefs?
my serial and its sequel are pretty much based around the concept of gods, so.... yeah. Do I draw parallels with existing religions? Not sure, really.... I think I mainly focus on religion in general. Though, given the heavy influence, some aspects of Buddhism and Shintoism may be there (Shinto especially, given the comparisons I was making earlier between it and legendary Pokemon.... though, a lot of the newer legendaries seem to lean towards Greek mythology).

If you ever use music in your fan fiction, do you allow it to be real music, like something made by Paul McCartney, or do you create your own singer/band/song?
I'm an insane person and I have insane dreams of doujinshi. ^^ [cough] That said, although I in no way want to reference actual music (given what I said earlier), an original soundtrack to accompany my manga would be wonderful (and my erogee could especially use a soundtrack.... as well as voice-over work). I wouldn't mind using a bit of my own pocket money and, through usage of Paypal, Skype, and a fair amount of talent-searching, direct some promising amateurs to perform music for me overseas (alternatively, and this may sound like a typical otaku comment, I'm wondering about the possibility of me actually being in Japan in a few years. Except unlike most otaku, I'm actually serious.... I've gotten a little interested in a career as an English teacher there and might consider continuing work towards my Bachelor's Degree ^^).

I've even got a few songs and BGMs already in mind.... my problem is, I don't know how to compose worth crap, so I doubt I'll be able to properly convey the kind of tunes I want to hear, at least not without seriously looking into the study of music. Alternatively, I could take a shortcut with this intriguing Vocaloid program I've been seeing on Youtube lately (I hear it's so easy to use, a deaf monkey could supposedly compose decent songs with it). That isn't to say I'll use computerized sounds all the way through (even if Miku does sound surprisingly good), but they could be used to represent what it is I want real people to perform. Also, given the bilingual approach I'm taking towards my projects, you can expect vocal songs to mainly be in Japanese, though a few may be in English (including English versions of some Japanese songs).

For a listing of titles for some BGMs I currently have planned (though subject to change), click the spoiler below.

Spoiler:

for the erogee:
夢のミラージュ (Yume no Mirage/Mirage of the Dream; opening theme)
あれ…ノコッチ…？ (Are... Nokocchi...?/That's... a Dunsparce...?)
NAIL IT、ネアル！！ (Nail it, Nearu!!/Nail it, Neal!!; "Neal" is the nickname of the protagonist's Sabonea/Cacnea)
洞窟で… (Doukutsu de.../In the Cave...)
磁場の砂 (Jiba no Suna/Magnetic Sand)
面会時間 (Menkai Jikan/Visiting Hours)
ハーデスの川 (Haadesu no Kawa/The Rivers of Hades)

for the serial:
LOST SOUL (character song for a major antagonist)
自然対理工 (Shizen tai Rikou/Nature vs. Technology)
ヤベー…イサミだ！ (Yabee... Isami da!/Crap... it's Isami!)
親子 (Oyako/Parent & Child)
陰陽師 (Onmyouji)

I'd also like remixes of some Pokemon songs, including (but not limited to) the BGMs to the Pokemon Center, Route 111, Enju City (Ecruteak City), the Ice Path, Colosseum's regular battle music, and some others. Also, in spite of what I said about existing music, classical music could be an exception. In particular, I could see "Night on Bald Mountain" having a fitting part at some point.

 

[Bay]

Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw paralells to religious beliefs?

The first version of "Nothing, Everything" was going to have really heavy religious themes. However, I then quit on that version as I'm afraid I might trigger controversy. ^^; On the second version, it's going to be more based on the theme of history.

If you ever use music in your fan fiction, do you allow it to be real music, like something made by Paul McCartney, or do you create your own singer/band/song?

Spoiler:

In "Nothing, Everything" I had made up a couple of bands and songs loosely based on the real life ones, though the characters won't meet them in person...their songs will be heard on radio XD. I pretty much did that for the same reason ACC-M said.

__________________

 

[purple_drake]

just making sure, but "monologuing" is when they give some long-winded speech and/or their life story, right? I don't intend to ever do that. Usually, if a character's suffering from a fatal wound and hacking up blood, but they have some last word they need to convey, it'd make sense to have them try and do so in as few lines as possible. If a character does have a death monologue, it should be before they commit suicide, as opposed to being injured and conveniently collapsing right after they finished talking. I'm also rather fond of having time seemingly slow down as you hear the final thoughts (instead of spoken dialog where they struggle just to say one syllable) of a character who's meeting their demise.

Mhm... pretty much a discourse that monopolises a situation/conversation. In this case, though, I tend to refer to most pre-death speeches as 'monologues'. >.< Bad of me.

I think part of the problem of me not liking pre-death speeches--monologues or otherwise--is that a lot of the time they seem to be something irrelevant to the story or just... trite. And yes, the 'conveniently collapsing right after they finish talking' is another part. :P

The slo-mo technique is pretty fun too. ^^ Never written it myself, though; I'm partial to the sudden and shocking, when the either character dies instantly (usually written from the PoV of someone else) or falls unconscious and never gets a chance to think last thoughts. Or you don't find out they're dead until one of the other characters do.

Spoiler:

Another example could be found in Pokemon: the Ruby/Sapphire adaption of the Special manga (god, Ruby ****ing fails as a character).

Hell yes. :< I haven't read past volume 19 yet, simply because I was spoiled and I hate the idea of what I know is coming up so much that I just haven't had the heart to keep reading.

I have a question. What if it's presumed that a character dies but it's never actually confirmed (i.e they never actually see the body or have living proof of the death)? Is it still in poor taste to have the character live even if they didn't actually die? (although the characters think they did). Keep in mind this would not be in result of nagging fans.

Well, depending on how it's done (and who the character is ;) ) I haven't a problem with that happening, especially when it's pre-planned. If it's used for the sake of a plot device (not exactly fanservice, but the character really has no right to be returning) then it falls under the lines of being badly done. It's like Isaac Gravity said: it depends on how it's pulled off, and I'd consider an assumed death to be easier to pull off well than an outright resurrection.


Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw parallels to religious beliefs?

Mm, I'm not sure how to answer this, mostly because I'm Christian and I'm sure some of my stories have some kind of religious bias without me noticing.

In terms of Pokemon-specific stories, I usually have people swearing by God, although depending on where they're from they might also swear by a Legendary, even though I don't exactly consider the Legendaries to be gods that humans, at least, worship (at least not in this modern day and age, or not commonly). Pokemon, on the other hand, I do see as worshipping and praying to the Legendaries, such as they can. It's really only recently that I've become interested in introducing real-life religion to the pokemon world.

Spoiler:

In my OT, the protagonist is myth-obsessed and names her pokemon after mythological deities, but she herself is atheist, while her rival is Catholic.

However, I usually don't try to insert symbolism for the purpose of drawing parallels... not actively, at least; I do recall some of my characters in HotM/CaC being allusions to Biblical characters. Also, it depends on a little on what culture the fandom is set in--Rurouni Kenshin and Yu Yu Hakusho, for instance, have Shinto and Buddhist aspects to take into account, because of their plotline and/or setting.

As for my original stories, well, I try to involve real-life religions where the setting is a real-life setting, but in terms of completely fantastical cultures I tend to create my own, although they may be inspired by real-life religions/mythologies (such as one which is based off the Ancient Egyptian pantheon and beliefs).

So... yeah. ^.^;; This topic kind of falls under the realm of 'things I don't think about but just happen'.


If you ever use music in your fan fiction, do you allow it to be real music, like something made by Paul McCartney, or do you create your own singer/band/song?

On the rare occasions I have used music, it's been real stuff.

Spoiler:

(although, also in my future OT, there's a major character who is obsessed with classical and operatic music.)

Anything that isn't real stuff I'd usually avoid naming or creating an artist for.

 

[Grovyle42(Griff8416)]

Question: Has the idea of fan fiction awards ever been pitched here? I've seen it done on a few other forums and was wondering if it's been brought up here.

 

[Dragonfree]

Do you occasionally use religious symbolism in fiction, original or otherwise, or do you draw paralells to religious beliefs?
Yes. Most obviously, Morphic is largely about conflict rooted in fundamentalist religion closely based on real life. Meanwhile, the primary theme of The Quest for the Legends, to a large extent, relates to religion but doesn't really have anything to do with the real world since situations are quite different. Then there are Chains and Shackles, two one-shots entirely based around religion. My other stuff, no, not really.

If you ever use music in your fan fiction, do you allow it to be real music, like something made by Paul McCartney, or do you create your own singer/band/song?
I've never referenced songs, bands or albums in my fic at all, real or imaginary, and I don't plan to. Seems rather pointless to me.

 

[Astinus]

Question: Has the idea of fan fiction awards ever been pitched here? I've seen it done on a few other forums and was wondering if it's been brought up here.

Actually, yes. You can see the original plans in this here thread. Obviously nothing came of it. I have been thinking of doing a new awards ceremony, but we don't have that many active fics...active members...active moderator. x.x I can't even keep on top of the FFotM.

So if anyone has an idea of how to work awards here, and if there is a want for them, let me hear it.

*goes back to OSC* <3

 

[Percy Thrillington]

Actually, yes. You can see the original plans in

this here thread. Obviously nothing came of it. I have been thinking of doing a new awards ceremony, but we don't have that many active fics...active members...active moderator. x.x I can't even keep on top of the FFotM.

So if anyone has an idea of how to work awards here, and if there is a want for them, let me hear it.

Read the thread.

Fan fiction of the year to be picked out of the fan fiction of the month category (first time winner is no doubt Griff).

But, I was thinking, perhaps we could have mini awards like; funniest writer, most thought provoking fic, ect.

Cue the protests to my ideas, I guess.

 

[Grovyle42(Griff8416)]

Fan fiction of the year to be picked out of the fan fiction of the month category (first time winner is no doubt Griff).

Don't quite know what you mean by the last part.

But, I was thinking, perhaps we could have mini awards like; funniest writer, most thought provoking fic, ect.

Cue the protests to my ideas, I guess.

I like the ideas of mini awards. I'd help out with this if we ever did such a thing.