6th Gen History Repeating?

[Cerberus87]

Yet again, poor writing in XY is the culprit. :rolleyes2:

A part of me feels like GF used ORAS as a substitute for a XY Third Version or prequel/sequel, because the entire point of making Mega Evolution such a huge part of Hoenn's story (especially in the Delta Episode) seems to serve no other purpose than to tie up loose ends in XY and patch up any poor, inconsistent writing (aka. what Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, Platinum, and B2W2 did). I hope this doesn't mean that Gen 6 will end with just XY and ORAS, but this, combined with Masuda's comments about doing a XY Third Version or sequel, makes it seem likely. :sideways:

IMO it's ORAS that creates the problems, not XY. The timeline was just fine with XY being ahead of B2W2, but they had to make ORAS and fuck it up with alternate timeline BS.

 

[mew_nani]

IMO it's ORAS that creates the problems, not XY. The timeline was just fine with XY being ahead of B2W2, but they had to make ORAS and psyduck it up with alternate timeline BS.

Let's face it though... even if ORAS didn't focus around Mega Evolution we would still have Pokemon being able to Mega Evolve outside of Kalos, around a decade earlier, for no explainable reason, and we would still have mega stones like Diancite vanishing off the face of the earth. ORAS just made the problems more obvious by centering the entire story around Mega Evolution (which just shouldn't have been done at all; thank the lord they didn't stick with Groudon and Kyogre devolving instead of reverting) and making the concept first and foremost when it didn't exist at all in RSE. They should have just had time traveling enabled instead of having the two Mega Evolving for no reason other than OMG it looks so cool, the 8 year olds would love it!!!

 

[BettyNewbie]

IMO it's ORAS that creates the problems, not XY. The timeline was just fine with XY being ahead of B2W2, but they had to make ORAS and **** it up with alternate timeline BS.

Setting XY at the same time as B2W2 was probably not the smartest idea on GF's part if they had been planning ORAS from the beginning. There's a reason why RSE took place at the same time as FRLG instead of during or after GSC; it let GF do a clean reboot instead of mucking up the old timeline and trying to haphazardly explain why Dark and Steel existed in FRLG, yet were "newly discovered" in GSC. (HGSS, of course, finalized this reboot years later by removing any references to Dark and Steel being "newly discovered" from Gen 2's dialog.)

They should've done the same thing with XY, hit the reset button and go all the way back to the beginning of the timeline. Then, ORAS wouldn't have needed to explain away nearly as many inconsistencies.

Let's face it though... even if ORAS didn't focus around Mega Evolution we would still have Pokemon being able to Mega Evolve outside of Kalos, around a decade earlier, for no explainable reason, and we would still have mega stones like Diancite vanishing off the face of the earth. ORAS just made the problems more obvious by centering the entire story around Mega Evolution (which just shouldn't have been done at all; thank the lord they didn't stick with Groudon and Kyogre devolving instead of reverting) and making the concept first and foremost when it didn't exist at all in RSE. They should have just had time traveling enabled instead of having the two Mega Evolving for no reason other than OMG it looks so cool, the 8 year olds would love it!!!

Another member pointed out to me that there are even more severe timeline problems than just the Megas. Unless every single game released from Gen 7 onwards takes place after XY, then the mere addition of new Pokémon causes problems--How come these Pokémon were never seen or heard from in Kalos if they were known about X number of years in the past? Applying gameplay and story segregation can only go so far in these situations, and it would just be ridiculous if the timeline kept resetting itself with every new Gen.

 

[mew_nani]

Another member pointed out to me that there are even more severe timeline problems than just the Megas. Unless every single game released from Gen 7 onwards takes place after XY, then the mere addition of new Pokémon causes problems--How come these Pokémon were never seen or heard from in Kalos if they were known about X number of years in the past? Applying gameplay and story segregation can only go so far in these situations, and it would just be ridiculous if the timeline kept resetting itself with every new Gen.

Oh my lord that IS right.... if Gen VII adds new Pokemon, and these Pokemon are obtainable in a DP or Fr/Lg remake, which took place several years before Pokemon X and Y, that means these Pokemon will not exist in the future where X and Y take place without any sort of explanation at all. These future Pokemon will both exist and be nonexistent because they were both already discovered in the past but not discovered in the future!

My god Game Freak you really broke things now. Unless there is some justification for the future Pokemon being missing the whole dang timeline is screwed. Maybe Timeline B is a broken timeline after all. All these temporal paradoxes have got to be doing damage to the timeline.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Oh my lord that IS right.... if Gen VII adds new Pokemon, and these Pokemon are obtainable in a DP or Fr/Lg remake, which took place several years before Pokemon X and Y, that means these Pokemon will not exist in the future where X and Y take place without any sort of explanation at all. These future Pokemon will both exist and be nonexistent because they both already discovered in the past but not discovered in the future!

My god Game Freak you really broke things now. Unless there is some justification for the future Pokemon being missing the whole dang timeline is screwed. Maybe Timeline B is a broken timeline after all. All these temporal paradoxes have got to be doing damage to the timeline.

Pretty awful isn't it? As much as people complain about there being too many Pokémon, I think people would riot if Gen 7 (or onwards) didn't add any new Pokémon.

As an aside, it's technically Timeline C, as Timeline A is RBY/GSC and Timeline B is RSE/FRLG/DPP/HGSS/BW/B2W2. I've heard talk about Gen 7 being a "return to simplicity," so that could possibly mean a return to either of the older timelines. Doing that, of course, would mean no more remakes for good (although, a DPP or BW/2 one that takes place on the same timeline as RBY/GSC could still potentially work), as well as the possible removal of Mega Evolutions from the games.

Another possible out would be to hit the reset button in Gen 7 with XY prequels that take place at the same time as Gens 1 and 3 (thus, paving the way for Gen 1 remakes) and establish XY as being part of a different timeline from ORAS. It's not a perfect fix, but it cleans things up well enough. (Of course, that could mean, yet, another game that's centered around Mega Evolution...)

 

[mew_nani]

Pretty awful isn't it? As much as people complain about there being too many Pokémon, I think people would riot if Gen 7 (or onwards) didn't add any new Pokémon.

As an aside, it's technically Timeline C, as Timeline A is RBY/GSC and Timeline B is RSE/FRLG/DPP/HGSS/BW/B2W2. I've heard talk about Gen 7 being a "return to simplicity," so that could possibly mean a return to either of the older timelines. Doing that, of course, would mean no more remakes for good (although, a DPP or BW/2 one that takes place on the same timeline as RBY/GSC could still potentially work), as well as the possible removal of Mega Evolutions from the games.

Another possible out would be to hit the reset button in Gen 7 with XY prequels that take place at the same time as Gens 1 and 3 (thus, paving the way for Gen 1 remakes) and establish XY as being part of a different timeline from ORAS. It's not a perfect fix, but it cleans things up well enough. (Of course, that could mean, yet, another game that's centered around Mega Evolution...)

Return to simplicity.... yeah, sure... These games have the most complicated and inconsistent continuity yet, and I wouldn't call them simple by any means.

Problem is, D/P/Pl takes place a couple of months before HG/SS, which takes place 3 years after RSE and Fr/Lg. You can't really have D/P remakes taking place chronologically at the same time as ORAS because Looker would have to be in two places at once, and you can't put B2/W2 at the same time as Gold and Silver because those games took place two years after Black and White, which took place an estimated 2-5 years after Gold and Silver. You'd be circumventing Black and White entirely, which royally screws everything up.

There's just no easy way to fix things other than erasing Pokemon X and Y from continuity, and even then it would be a mess because Zinnia would still be referencing X/Y's lore, and all of Kalos's Pokemon have to come from somewhere. Game Freak wrote themselves into a corner, and we COULD have games from the other timelines except they'd have to include Mega Evolution for continuity's sake (and to avoid the fanbase busting into flames,) and Mega Evolution doesn't exist in Timelines A and B. (I admit that was real silly of me, not taking into place the timeline in which R/B/Y and G/S/C take place in... I wish we'd revisit that timeline sometime in the future.) The only real option is to have remakes that have Mega Evolution in them, and that means possibly adding new Pokemon and having them vanish in the future because they didn't exist when X and Y were made.

It's a dang catch-22, as they're screwed no matter what they do. If they add more Pokemon, they're in trouble. If they don't, they're in trouble. If they make remakes, they're in trouble. If they don't, they're in trouble. If they omit Mega Evolution they're in trouble, and if they add it they're in trouble. I wish Mega Evolution was never made a story point, because all the problems we're looking at are caused because Mega Evolution only exists in one timeline and does not exist in the others. They should have just made it a minor thing, and even then it would have caused problems because then we'd be asking why the villainous teams never use it.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

There is an easy fix, bring back the time capsule and have it be exclusive to some regions but not others. Like Gen VII could focus on Time travel and such.

Anyways in the sales department ORAS is still doing pretty well.

 

[mew_nani]

There is an easy fix, bring back the time capsule and have it be exclusive to some regions but not others. Like Gen VII could focus on Time travel and such.

Anyways in the sales department ORAS is still doing pretty well.

There's a problem with bringing back the Time Capsule system; in one set of games you'd never be able to complete the Pokedex. This worked for Pokemon Red and Blue because in that timeline Johto was still isolated from Kanto, and those Pokemon hadn't been discovered yet, and as a result you could complete the Pokedex without the Johto species. In Gold and Silver it was stable because while you could send Pokemon backwards you couldn't send newer Pokemon that were beyond Pokedex no. 151, and you couldn't send over any with moves that were nonexistent 3 years ago, thus preventing any kind of paradoxes from happening. This was more for glitch prevention than anything else, but it works continuity-wise too, as the two take place in separate generations and 3 years apart chronologically.

Problem is, if there was a remake of say, Diamond and Pearl, that was made during Gen VII, the new Pokemon would be added to the National Dex of both games for continuity's sake, as you would not be able to fully complete the dex without those additions. The snarl doesn't come from the fact that the Pokemon didn't exist in ORAS; it would make some sense because Diamond and Pearl take place roughly 2 1/2 years later. The problem comes from the fact that X and Y take place several years after Diamond and Pearl, at the same time Black 2 and White 2 were happening. They should have already discovered these Pokemon, but didn't, and since they're in the same continuity as ORAS and the presumed remakes it means these Pokemon that were discovered were forgotten about or vanished entirely. We already have this problem concerning the Mega Evolutions; there's absolutely no excuse why some Mega Evolutions like Mega Pidgeot and Mega Diancie would vanish over the course of 6-8 years. If X and Y took place in the past it would make sense but they don't, and in this case the Time Capsule wouldn't help matters because it's not the past versions that have the problem; it's the future games where these things should exist, but for some reason do not.

In this generation we have two games that takes place in the future (Pokemon X and Y) and two games that take place in the past (ORAS). Since they didn't employ a Time Capsule for those versions, they probably won't implement it in Gen VII.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

There's a problem with bringing back the Time Capsule system; in one set of games you'd never be able to complete the Pokedex. This worked for Pokemon Red and Blue because in that timeline Johto was still isolated from Kanto, and those Pokemon hadn't been discovered yet, and as a result you could complete the Pokedex without the Johto species. In Gold and Silver it was stable because while you could send Pokemon backwards you couldn't send newer Pokemon that were beyond Pokedex no. 151, and you couldn't send over any with moves that were nonexistent 3 years ago, thus preventing any kind of paradoxes from happening. This was more for glitch prevention than anything else, but it works continuity-wise too, as the two take place in separate generations and 3 years apart chronologically.

Problem is, if there was a remake of say, Diamond and Pearl, that was made during Gen VII, the new Pokemon would be added to the National Dex of both games for continuity's sake, as you would not be able to fully complete the dex without those additions. The snarl doesn't come from the fact that the Pokemon didn't exist in ORAS; it would make some sense because Diamond and Pearl take place roughly 2 1/2 years later. The problem comes from the fact that X and Y take place several years after Diamond and Pearl, at the same time Black 2 and White 2 were happening. They should have already discovered these Pokemon, but didn't, and since they're in the same continuity as ORAS and the presumed remakes it means these Pokemon that were discovered were forgotten about or vanished entirely. We already have this problem concerning the Mega Evolutions; there's absolutely no excuse why some Mega Evolutions like Mega Pidgeot and Mega Diancie would vanish over the course of 6-8 years. If X and Y took place in the past it would make sense but they don't, and in this case the Time Capsule wouldn't help matters because it's not the past versions that have the problem; it's the future games where these things should exist, but for some reason do not.

In this generation we have two games that takes place in the future (Pokemon X and Y) and two games that take place in the past (ORAS). Since they didn't employ a Time Capsule for those versions, they probably won't implement it in Gen VII.

Right, they should've had it in ORAS for it to have worked. Btw I am the member Betty was talking about who pointed this out.

Anyways this is getting off topic so back to ORAS and 'History' repeating itself. I wouldn't say ORAS are repeating the same path RS had. I say this as unlike RS during Gen III ORAS seems to be more or as popular as the Gen I and II remakes while RS weren't liked by Gen I or II fans as much...or even not at all...

 

[mew_nani]

Right, they should've had it in ORAS for it to have worked. Btw I am the member Betty was talking about who pointed this out.

Anyways this is getting off topic so back to ORAS and 'History' repeating itself. I wouldn't say ORAS are repeating the same path RS had. I say this as unlike RS during Gen III ORAS seems to be more or as popular as the Gen I and II remakes while RS weren't liked by Gen I or II fans as much...or even not at all...

Before I finish the argument, they really should have implemented it in X and Y. X and Y should have had all the Mega Evolutions to begin with, with ORAS getting restrictions on which ones they can have. But at this point I don't even think Game Freak cares that much about continuity; they just gotta pump out those yearly Pokemon games, even when the game quality suffers for it.

With that said, I think the dissonance has to do with nostalgia. Back when R/S/E came out most people who played it grew up with R/B/Y and G/S/C, and they didn't like it because it wasn't as good as those games. The kids who grew up with R/S/E though liked it, and as the older fans became more sporadic the demand for an R/S/E remake grew, because they wanted the game they grew up with.

Personally I grew up in the third generation and loved the games to death, and you couldn't get me to play ORAS if you gave me a million dollars. To me, they changed too much of what made the originals great without adding anything in return, ironically much like the third gen games were like in comparison to Gen II.

 

[BettyNewbie]

It's a dang catch-22, as they're screwed no matter what they do. If they add more Pokemon, they're in trouble. If they don't, they're in trouble. If they make remakes, they're in trouble. If they don't, they're in trouble. If they omit Mega Evolution they're in trouble, and if they add it they're in trouble. I wish Mega Evolution was never made a story point, because all the problems we're looking at are caused because Mega Evolution only exists in one timeline and does not exist in the others. They should have just made it a minor thing, and even then it would have caused problems because then we'd be asking why the villainous teams never use it.

This is one reason why I suspect that ORAS weren't originally planned to be remakes but instead, sequels. If GF knew from the start that they would be remaking RSE in Gen 6, I seriously doubt they would've set XY during B2W2's time.

From where they were going with XY, it would've made far more sense for ORAS to be sequels set during B2W2/XY's time, possibly also paired with a Virtual Console release of RSE. Then, they could've put Megas and Fairies in Hoenn without having to introduce another alternate timeline (which was mostly done in the first place to explain why Megas and Fairies were in Hoenn, but not Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, and Unova), and the continuity of the games wouldn't have been nearly as broken.

If this was the case, it's unclear why GF scrapped the sequel plans for a remake (although, the 3DS's issues with emulating GBA games may have been a factor; without RSE fresh in memory and readily available, a sequel couldn't have worked nearly as well).

With that said, I think the dissonance has to do with nostalgia. Back when R/S/E came out most people who played it grew up with R/B/Y and G/S/C, and they didn't like it because it wasn't as good as those games. The kids who grew up with R/S/E though liked it, and as the older fans became more sporadic the demand for an R/S/E remake grew, because they wanted the game they grew up with.

Personally I grew up in the third generation and loved the games to death, and you couldn't get me to play ORAS if you gave me a million dollars. To me, they changed too much of what made the originals great without adding anything in return, ironically much like the third gen games were like in comparison to Gen II.

Another big thing that hurt RSE's popularity back in the day was the fact that they had the misfortune to come out right after the Pokémania Fad of the late 90s/early 00s died and a huge anti-Pokémon backlash started to set in. The entire franchise had become radioactive for anyone over the age of 10, which, alas, was how old most of the original fans were by 2002. Kids that age were expected to either move on to "mature" games like GTA or abandon video games altogether. (I, myself, became obsessed with the Sims.) To still be playing Pokémon at the age of 13 was to be wearing a giant "Kick me, I'm a dork!" sign on your back.

It started to change by the late 2000s when Pokémania reached its 10th anniversary and the original fans were all now 17-22 years old (a time when you start to care less about peer pressure and looking "grownup"). People started whipping their old cartridges out and getting nostalgic, and they were eventually rewarded in the form of HGSS. That exact same thing would eventually happen with the younger Gen 3-era fans later on, and ORAS were their reward.

 

[RandomDSdevel]

…Problem is, D/P/Pl takes place a couple of months before HG/SS, which takes place 3 years after RSE and Fr/Lg. …

Actually, I'm pretty sure that D/P/Pt starts after the beginning of HG/SS since the former begins with a TV special showing the events that happen at the Lake of Rage in the latter.

 

[KittiOcelotti]

Back when the original Ruby and Sapphire games came out, fans criticized them for the removal of certain features and the inability to trade in their Pokémon from their GB games onto the new GBA games. This gave Gen 3 the reputation as the overall worst of the series, having to fail to surpass the sales of the first two generations. Now its remakes, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, are out, and it looks like the same thing is happening within the fandom, only this time the criticism was towards the removal of character customization from XY and Battle Frontier from Emerald, as well as how it's "too easy," even though the difficulty is basically the same as the originals, which the Hoenn fans enjoyed when they were kids themselves. Because of these cons, fans from various forums are calling ORAS atrocious and the downfall of the Pokémon franchise. It feels like Gen 3 will indeed forever be known as the worst of the series, but what baffles me is that its overall sales are getting close to XY's sales despite the fans' constant bashing towards the remakes. Has anyone else notice this, and are they justified or just mere exaggerations?

I'm a little late on the pokemon games and still haven't played X/Y and OR/AS yet. I thought that people was going to love OR/AS because it seemed liked a good game with all these new features and stuff. I wasn't that aware of the BC problem in R/S/E because its was my first game, but when I found out, I understood why older fans hated it. From all i've seen and heard from it, people either love it or hate it. Remakes are suppose to make things better, not worse. OR/AS doesn't deserve that much hate, at least not from the R/S/E fans. I think that the Dex Nav was a good feature, but the Pokemon News was completely useless. There is a feature that Even lets you can even trade pokemon from R/S/E!!

ORAS made me realize that the Pokemon fanbase is really bad in general. It's actually related to the new Megas and not to the battle frontier.

Back when GameFreak announced that Gen 3 was going to have remakes, everyone was so excited, like I remember going on Pokemon Showdown and see lots of joke teams that featured 6 pokemon with Celebrate as their only move and their own alt being something such as "HOENN CONFIRMED" or "GEN 3 CONFIRMED". But now that ORAS is out everyone is complaining.
"WHY DID BEEDRILL, PIDGEOT AND GLALIE GET MEGAS??? WHY AUDINO, WHY SLOWBRO, WHY CAMERUPT, WHY FUCKING LOPUNNY OF ALL THINGS?! WHERE'S MY MEGA FLYGON AND MEGA MILOTIC???"
Yeah. You'll see crap like this on 4chan, Reddit, GameFAQs as well as the comments to the official Pokemon videos. I know Pokemon is supposed to be for kids, but I bet most of the users who complained were at least 15. They need to thank GF for actually giving them a goddamn remake and not to act like the German kid we all know and love because they didn't get Mega Flygon. GF knows what's doing and gave mega evolutions both to fan favourites (looking at you, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario and Blastoise) AND to Pokemon that actually needed them, such as Beedrill, Glalie and Pidgeot. And honestly, they care about you. You wanted Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross? They gave you Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross. You wanted a Dragon/Fairy Mega Altaria? They gave you a Dragon/Fairy Mega Altaria. But all the Pokemon fanbase cares about is "WHY WATER/DARK MEGA GYARA, WHY DID GLALIE GET A MEGA AND NOT FROSLASS, HOW COME MEGA FLYGON/MILOTIC IS NOT A THING YET." I even saw some extremist comments such as "I'm done with Pokemon if they don't show us Mega Flygon" or "If Blissey gets a mega I'm gonna quit this game". Not kidding.
Not to mention everytime a powerful Pokemon (Salamence) gets a mega, they scream "WHY DO YOU MAKE OP POKEMON EVEN MORE OP" and when a Pokemon such as Audino gets a mega, they go "WHY FUCKING AUDINO OF ALL THINGS VOLCARONA NEEDS A FUCKING MEGA".

Pokemon like Dragonite didn't get megas

I think that most (video game) fanbases have parts like this. They get really vocal about something they want. You give it to them. They get super-excited over news of the announcement of the thing they wanted. Then they bitch and whine about it after release because it didn't quite match every last little detail they wanted. They ask for the devs to innovate and try something new. The devs do that. Then they cry and scream because the devs "ruined" the game and it's "not [insert franchise here] anymore"......as if that's the mature way to do things. As if the game should be made to suit any one person's specific tastes.

Not saying that the entirety of any fanbase is like that, but there's a sizeable chunk of people like that in most of 'em. I think that people don't really know exactly what it is they want sometimes.

That was different for X/Y though

 

[mew_nani]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that D/P/Pt starts after the beginning of HG/SS since the former begins with a TV special showing the events that happen at the Lake of Rage in the latter.

I was led to believe it starts a few months before, as you can run into Jasmine in Sunnyshore, and the Red Gyarados broadcast was removed in Platinum and replaced with a report that Professor Rowan has returned from Kanto. Bulbapedia seems undecided on it, as supposedly the games are taking place at the same time, but Jasmine's dialogue sounds like she came there after HG/SS. The only thing that seems to be clear is that both games take place close together.

As for the Mega Evolutions... well it does seem strange that there's not very many new evolutions for Hoenn Pokemon. Instead they're for Pokemon obtainable in the Kalos region like Pidgeot and Beedrill. You'd figure there'd be some Mega Evolutions for more Hoenn Pokemon that can easily be found there, not Kalos natives.

 

[Margaery Tyrell]

That's kinda just how fandoms are, if there is a flaw or something a select group of people don't like, then it will be criticized and whatever they're complaining about will (not always, sometimes it really can be that bad) be exaggerated.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I do think it just repeats. Every Pokemon game is the same, but in a different region and the same storyline but with a different enemy name.

What about Mario and Zelda? Both series follow the same structure (former has you travel through 8 exotic worlds plus an extra one after beating the game, and the latter has you exploring 7-8 dungeons, collect the items within each of them, and obtaining the master sword after the first three dungeons). It's the content that makes each installment unique, and Pokemon is no different.

 

[Orithan]

What about Mario and Zelda? Both series follow the same structure (former has you travel through 8 exotic worlds plus an extra one after beating the game, and the latter has you exploring 7-8 dungeons, collect the items within each of them, and obtaining the master sword after the first three dungeons). It's the content that makes each installment unique, and Pokemon is no different.

The point here is that a lot of the fans don't want to see the same formula over and over again. Mario and Zelda have used the same basic formula for each of their games (well, not all of them in the latter; see Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure), just like Pokemon. And just like Pokemon, a lot of fans are getting tired of their formulas. The difference between Zelda and Mario and Pokemon is that the formula is exactly the same in Pokemon (with the slight exception of B/W1) while Zelda and Mario tries to change the formula from time to time.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

The point here is that a lot of the fans don't want to see the same formula over and over again. Mario and Zelda have used the same basic formula for each of their games (well, not all of them in the latter; see Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure), just like Pokemon. And just like Pokemon, a lot of fans are getting tired of their formulas. The difference between Zelda and Mario and Pokemon is that the formula is exactly the same in Pokemon (with the slight exception of B/W1) while Zelda and Mario tries to change the formula from time to time.

By "a lot of fans" you mean the vocal minority/fans who outgrew the series, who are also the same group who'll complain about the changes made to the formula of both Pokemon and other franchises. You've probably heard about the Zelda cycle and criticism towards Super Mario Sunshine before.

 

[Pendraflare]

Mario has never really been known for changing its formula much either since it's usually him saving Peach from Bowser, even though I haven't played most of the newest Mario games. But with Pokémon it works because there are new regions and over 700 Pokémon to use at this point.

 

[Orithan]

By "a lot of fans" you mean the vocal minority/fans who outgrew the series, who are also the same group who'll complain about the changes made to the formula of both Pokemon and other franchises. You've probably heard about the Zelda cycle and criticism towards Super Mario Sunshine before.

While saying that they are the vocal minority has some credibility as you can easily look at the sales figures to see that to some extent, but saying that these are all in the "outgrew" crowd is wrong even though there is a lot of those types of the fans. From experience, a lot of the fans I am describing tend to like the spinoffs that were well made (eg. Pokemon Colosseum/XD, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon I and II, even Hyrule Warriors) and main series games that went out of their way to innovate (eg. major 3D Mario games including Sunshine, Ocarina of Time) simply because deviate from the standard formula and hate the main series games that downgraded or removed key design points and/or features already present in earlier games in the series (eg. entirety of Gen III and V Pokemon, Metroid Fusion, DS Zeldas and Skyward Sword) while keeping the same formula. These fans tend to be more mature, reasonable and less biased than the ones who simply outgrew their series regarding their hate.

Also, there is evidence that the so called "vocal minority" might be actually having an effect on the sales. X/Y are the lowest selling main Pokemon games in the series, doing worse than B/W and R/S did despite being more heavily advertised than B/W (from what I can recall anyway). There is evidence to suggest that the age demographic of the people that have been playing the games have changed from school children to teenagers/adults and have easy access to the internet. It is likely that this, compounded with the fallout from Gen V's hate and the Gen VI hate, is part of the reason for the drop in sales. OR/AS are doing well for remakes so far, but that can trail off badly like what happened with X/Y and the series still looks like it is in danger of dying in the next couple of generations if sales don't pick up due being the second consecutive generation of decline.
Changing up the formula might have a huge drop in the sales numbers initially, but this is only temporary if you continue following that formula with further titles. This is demonstrated by the Super Mario Galaxy series, which is well loved by most the fanbase that hasn't grown out of Mario altogether. SMG 1 sold remarkably poorly for a main series game, at about 9mil sales compared to NSMB's 20mil, but then SMG 2 came along and drew much better sales figures, comparable to the rest of the main series titles.