Serious How much more can America stomach?

[EnglishALT]

Yes, they absolutely would be detained awaiting deportation. ICE operates more than just a few border camps. Most people in detention under ICE are not at bordercamps.

Of course, so how can you make the comparison that VISA overstays would be detained at border camps meant to process those who have just entered illegally? Especially when VISA overstays have already been background checked and screened, while those crossing the border have not.

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum

You can apply for asylum after crossing the border. So it does matter. That's how the law works.

I never said you couldn't, however applying for asylum does not negate the crime of crossing the border illegally. Again if they wish they can apply at a port of entry and wait in Mexico as thousands of others are doing.

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal...wful-entry-failure-depart-fleeing-immigration

That's how the law works.

Because, as explained to you previously, Trump has increased the scope of both ICE and has ran an entire campaign on demonizing minorities, particularly Mexicans, and creating a culture of fear. For Obama, ICE was an ugly secret. For Trump its a political tool of propaganda.

So Trump is causing the record numbers of migrants to flood the border not seen in over a decade? Is he using magical voodoo powers for this? Mind control perhaps? Or how about we both acknowledge that it is US policy during both the previous and current administration to use camps when there is a flood of migrants illegally crossing, and this has nothing to do with demonizing minorities.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...-ice-detained-us-citizen-for-almost-two-years

Both of which are miscarriages of justice, and thankfully they are getting money from their ordeal. However it seems neither men were detained in these so camps, so I don't see how it is relevant to the current discussion, unless you are saying that people will be kept in these conditions for years, of which I don't think either of these articles rise to the burden of proof of that.

You seem to misunderstand, the conditions in any of ICE's detention centers are poor, not simply the border ones.

Proof please.

Because children are actively dying and the US must be seen to be doing something to address this.

Which ones? Provide some context.

https://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm



companies can literally do it online it's that easy.


https://www.ancestry.co.uk/cs/us/uk...59287&o_lid=59287&o_sch=Paid+Search+Non+Brand



Hell, regular people can check a birth certificate out. These are things that are commonly recorded.

Yes, I am sure the Government uses something like Ancestory.com when trying to go through the bureaucratic paperwork of making sure their IDs are proper. I take it you do not have any proper time frame on how long it takes for a Government official to check this?

https://splinternews.com/u-s-man-is-suing-after-ice-holds-him-in-jail-for-3-wee-1793927348

Funny how none of these are ever coming from "John Smith" huh?

I'll forgo arguing the bias of the link. However again I note you have not provided any proof of actual racial profiling, merely three stories out of the millions of people ICE deals with each year.

How many white Americans have been detained for three weeks without access to a phone call and had their lawyers ignored when they present legal documentation that clears their client?


I don't think anecdotal evidence is acceptable by community standards as proof, but I can tell you that I have never once had any border agent demand my passport or any other form of ID unless I was at an airport. When we travel for work, it's only ever the engies who aren't white who get stopped and questioned, even though we're all foreign.

How many times have you crossed the US/Mexico border?

You'd be surprised how little tents and chickenwire costs. But for context, the average cost to house a single prisoner in the US per year ranges between $23,000 - $60,000 and they have better amnesties than these kids have who cost the taxpayer the equivalent of $276,000 per year per kid. So whatever way you spin it, there is no justification for what is happening and the UN human rights chief agrees. The UN is a legitimate source in your eyes on other topics, particularly the treatment of prisoners in another country, so I hope you treat it with the same weight when applied to the detention of children in the United States

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/07/1041991

Chicken wire and tents? Do you realize how hot it gets on the southern border of the United States?

Also note, that a single prisoner is housed in a Jail that has already been constructed, the US, was not ready for such an epic flood of migration, and is now forced with the task of converting facilities as quickly as possible that were not designed to hold people, into holding facilities.

 

[Hands]

Of course, so how can you make the comparison that VISA overstays would be detained at border camps meant to process those who have just entered illegally? Especially when VISA overstays have already been background checked and screened, while those crossing the border have not.

Only, if you're from any number of countries then you do not have to face any checks. I can be in the US for 90 days without a proper visa, for instance, because I'm British.

I never said you couldn't, however applying for asylum does not negate the crime of crossing the border illegally. Again if they wish they can apply at a port of entry and wait in Mexico as thousands of others are doing.

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal...wful-entry-failure-depart-fleeing-immigration

That's how the law works.

https://www.rescue-uk.org/article/it-legal-cross-us-border-seek-asylum

So Trump is causing the record numbers of migrants to flood the border not seen in over a decade? Is he using magical voodoo powers for this? Mind control perhaps? Or how about we both acknowledge that it is US policy during both the previous and current administration to use camps when there is a flood of migrants illegally crossing, and this has nothing to do with demonizing minorities.

Actually, immigration to the US is at a 40 year low.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44319094

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html

Even illegal crossings are at a relative low

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html


So the myth of the great border floods is entirely Trump's fault, yes, because he made it up.


The only thing we have seen an increase of is children, because full families are now fleeing violence and poverty and not just young men like years gone by. Overall numbers are down.

Both of which are miscarriages of justice, and thankfully they are getting money from their ordeal. However it seems neither men were detained in these so camps, so I don't see how it is relevant to the current discussion, unless you are saying that people will be kept in these conditions for years, of which I don't think either of these articles rise to the burden of proof of that.

Because we are talking, again like I have now highlighted several times, about a wider immigration issue than just the bordercamps, you've literally replied just below and just above to comments I made about ICE detention facilities as a whole. It's also relevant because it highlights that ICE are literally targeting minorities and illegally detaining US citizens.

Proof please.

Just for clarification, you replied to my comment about other ICE facilities here, when just above you said we were not talking about those. For clarity's sake I'd like to use this moment to say we are in fact talking about those and I'll assume going forward you are aware of that.

https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigra...nd-detention/immigration-detention-conditions

https://www.justia.com/immigration/deportation-removal/detention-by-ice/

ICE raids aren't happening on the border, they're happening in towns and cities. ICE doesn't just arrest kids for crossing the border and the issue of their behavior far exceeds just the kid camps.

Which ones? Provide some context.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/16-year-old-unaccompanied-migrant-boy-dies-while-u-s-n1000821

https://www.theroot.com/u-s-government-admits-another-migrant-child-died-under-1834976658

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migran...ed-in-us-custody-had-infection-autopsy-finds/

Due to the dreadful conditions, illness is running rampant, children are left malnourished and at risk. Children, not criminals, not adults, children.

Yes, I am sure the Government uses something like Ancestory.com when trying to go through the bureaucratic paperwork of making sure their IDs are proper. I take it you do not have any proper time frame on how long it takes for a Government official to check this?

The Govt absolutely doesn't use Ancestory.com, but my point is if Joe Average can find a legit birth certificate in 15 minutes it shouldn't take law enforcement three weeks of ignoring said documents being presented to them almost daily. Did you overlook the easy to use govt provided SSN checker?

I'll forgo arguing the bias of the link. However again I note you have not provided any proof of actual racial profiling, merely three stories out of the millions of people ICE deals with each year.

source please on ICE dealing with "millions" per year, but here's some more

https://www.gq.com/story/border-patrol-detained-9-year-old-american-girl

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...-jamaica-ices-request/?utm_term=.bca1cd1505a9

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/opinion/ice-raids.html


You might start to see a pattern with all of these detained people, wrongly or (by law anyway) rightfully. They all share a very common trait. None of them are white.

How many times have you crossed the US/Mexico border?

Could be once, could be one hundred times. It isn't relevant to anything we're discussing outside of you trying to defend the illegal detention and denial of rights to a US citizen based on his ethnicity. And that's what it is, because the initial arrest could have been a cock up, sure, but the three weeks of denying him his phone call, basic sanitary rights, ignoring evidence and ghosting his lawyer was nothing short of completely illegal. You know, unlike the young man himself.

Chicken wire and tents? Do you realize how hot it gets on the southern border of the United States?

https://nypost.com/2018/06/18/how-children-live-inside-cramped-immigration-detention-centers/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/08/facts-behind-detention-immigrants/

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...ons-historical-journalist-describes-parallels


I mean, I don't know what else you call the items photographed here.

Also note, that a single prisoner is housed in a Jail that has already been constructed, the US, was not ready for such an epic flood of migration, and is now forced with the task of converting facilities as quickly as possible that were not designed to hold people, into holding facilities.

Most of these kids are in facilities that were already constructed, for very short term housing of individuals, not families and not hundreds of children. But we can get an aircraft hanger up in under two weeks for a lot less than the budget ICE now have. It's not an excuse.

 

[EnglishALT]

Only, if you're from any number of countries then you do not have to face any checks. I can be in the US for 90 days without a proper visa, for instance, because I'm British.

Yes the US also have a VISA waver program with most first world countries, however that does not mean their passport ( Of which they would have to had get a background check in their home country ) and information is not taken down and identified inside the ESTA system when they arrive.

https://www.rescue-uk.org/article/it-legal-cross-us-border-seek-asylum

No where in the article does it say that crossing the border illegally negate the crime of entering illegally.

Actually, immigration to the US is at a 40 year low.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44319094

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html

Even illegal crossings are at a relative low

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/fact-check-trump-border-crossings-declining-.html


So the myth of the great border floods is entirely Trump's fault, yes, because he made it up.


The only thing we have seen an increase of is children, because full families are now fleeing violence and poverty and not just young men like years gone by. Overall numbers are down.

It helps to use articles less than a year old, the one current article you have from the BBC says this and I note:

The decline follows a record number of apprehensions between ports of entry in May - the highest in over a decade.

It's impossible to say for certain, but US Border Patrol says it has made 688,375 southwest border apprehensions since October 2018. The previous US fiscal year there were 303,916, according to US Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

The number fell dramatically in President Trump's first year but rose again last year.

The number of migrants apprehended at the border surged in May to the highest level since 2006, with 132,887 detained - including 11,507 unaccompanied children. It was the first time that detentions had exceeded 100,000 since April 2007.

Here are some more current articles.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...gration-76-000-encountered-at-southern-border

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/us/border-crossing-increase.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...migrants-flooded-southern-border-may-n1014186

Just for clarification, you replied to my comment about other ICE facilities here, when just above you said we were not talking about those. For clarity's sake I'd like to use this moment to say we are in fact talking about those and I'll assume going forward you are aware of that.

https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigra...nd-detention/immigration-detention-conditions

https://www.justia.com/immigration/deportation-removal/detention-by-ice/

ICE raids aren't happening on the border, they're happening in towns and cities. ICE doesn't just arrest kids for crossing the border and the issue of their behavior far exceeds just the kid camps.

I am well aware that ICE raids are happening all across the US. However, and I may be missing it, I do not see in either of those articles information showing the detention centers away from the border are anywhere comparable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/16-year-old-unaccompanied-migrant-boy-dies-while-u-s-n1000821

https://www.theroot.com/u-s-government-admits-another-migrant-child-died-under-1834976658

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/migran...ed-in-us-custody-had-infection-autopsy-finds/

Due to the dreadful conditions, illness is running rampant, children are left malnourished and at risk. Children, not criminals, not adults, children.

Well lets break this down.

1st: From a quick search, there is still no information as to why the child died, from the original reporting of the Buzzfeed article he was brought in on April 20th to the Brownsville shelter, the next morning he began showing symptoms, and was treated at a hospital, he got worse the next day and eventually died. So far there is no information on what caused his death, and how long he was in ICE custody before arriving at the shelter. Considering the rampant diseases people are showing up with when claiming asylum it is rather possible he was sick before he even came into contact with ICE.

2nd: The girl had congenital heart defects, and died after complications from surgery, I don't see how you can blame ICE for that.

3rd: The father signed a form saying the girl was in good health, although its possible that he had no idea what the form said. That being said she contracted the illness before meeting with border patrol and was rushed to the hospital when her fever was discovered.

None of these seem to be the fault of ICE or Border Patrol.

The Govt absolutely doesn't use Ancestory.com, but my point is if Joe Average can find a legit birth certificate in 15 minutes it shouldn't take law enforcement three weeks of ignoring said documents being presented to them almost daily. Did you overlook the easy to use govt provided SSN checker?

The Government is faced with thousands of people arriving each day, and has to do an exhaustive search to make sure that everything is not fake, it shouldn't take three weeks we agree, but I am not surprised there is a backlog either.

source please on ICE dealing with "millions" per year, but here's some more

https://www.gq.com/story/border-patrol-detained-9-year-old-american-girl

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...-jamaica-ices-request/?utm_term=.bca1cd1505a9

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/opinion/ice-raids.html

Earlier this year the Border Patrol was on pace to capture over 1 million people, illegally crossing. Combine that with those that are staying in Mexico while requesting asylum, along with those captured in ICE raids inside of the US, and the number easily surpasses 1 million.

https://twitter.com/DHSgov/status/1103318241538179072

You might start to see a pattern with all of these detained people, wrongly or (by law anyway) rightfully. They all share a very common trait. None of them are white.

Your third article plainly states: Ms. Nuetzi is a cheerful white woman who spent her childhood in Ocala, Fla., and has been an elementary school secretary in Gainesville for 20 years.

Could be once, could be one hundred times. It isn't relevant to anything we're discussing outside of you trying to defend the illegal detention and denial of rights to a US citizen based on his ethnicity. And that's what it is, because the initial arrest could have been a cock up, sure, but the three weeks of denying him his phone call, basic sanitary rights, ignoring evidence and ghosting his lawyer was nothing short of completely illegal. You know, unlike the young man himself.

I agree, but I think we can also agree that with crossings at a ten year high, and the border patrol completely overwhelmed, that a person can be lost a bit in the bureaucracy.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/18/how-children-live-inside-cramped-immigration-detention-centers/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/jul/08/facts-behind-detention-immigrants/

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...ons-historical-journalist-describes-parallels


I mean, I don't know what else you call the items photographed here.

Just to remain clear here, we are talking about massive tent complexes, that stretch the length of football fields if not more, and require equally massive AC, lighting, etc to maintain? Or are you speaking of small little tents similar to the cheap tent city set up in Arizona.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ff-joe-arpaios-infamous-tent-city-jail-closes

One is rather costly to keep up and maintain, he other isn't.

Most of these kids are in facilities that were already constructed, for very short term housing of individuals, not families and not hundreds of children. But we can get an aircraft hanger up in under two weeks for a lot less than the budget ICE now have. It's not an excuse.

ICE is apparently trying to get everything and anything up and running to properly care for the kids, including converting old Wal Marts to schools.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/family-separation-migrant-children-detention.html

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local...tary-school-transformed-into-migrant-shelter/

 

[Roxas]

Okay how does that change the facts on the ground that we are experiencing a massive swell of people crossing not seen in a decade, or that the border patrol is saying that they are at a breaking point?

I agree, it is evil, and we need to either change the laws so that family's can stay together in a facility indefinitely, or provide better facilities to handle the current flood crossing.

Guess what - people are coming over in "massive swells" because they are refugees.

"So that family's can stay together in a facility indefinitely" Yeah let's just lock up migrant refugee families forever because they're migrant refugees.

 

[EnglishALT]

Guess what - people are coming over in "massive swells" because they are refugees.

Problem is it depends on what kind of refugees they are, if they are economic refugees, as in they are coming for work, then they do not get asylum status.

"So that family's can stay together in a facility indefinitely" Yeah let's just lock up migrant refugee families forever because they're migrant refugees.

What alternative is there? Close to 90 percent are not showing up for their court date.

 

[Taste of Tea]

If the refugees/migrants don't want to be held at those facilities (I refuse to call them concentration camps because that's not what they are no matter how the Left tries to spin it), then perhaps they shouldn't approach the US border to begin with. I mean at this point they can't be oblivious to how they'll be treated if they try to cross into the US illegally, so I don't understand why they're putting themselves at risk. I also think it's silly for refugees/migrants to think that the US should be responsible for taking them in, as if the US is the source of all of their problems to begin with.

 

[Roxas]

If the refugees/migrants don't want to be held at those facilities (I refuse to call them concentration camps because that's not what they are no matter how the Left tries to spin it), then perhaps they shouldn't approach the US border to begin with. I mean at this point they can't be oblivious to how they'll be treated if they try to cross into the US illegally, so I don't understand why they're putting themselves at risk. I also think it's silly for refugees/migrants to think that the US should be responsible for taking them in, as if the US is the source of all of their problems to begin with.

Okay, then what alternative do refugees have, really?

In other countries, refugees are not held in border patrol facilities.

 

[Her]

fwiw Australia does so as well, but they're not exactly the country to praise on migration issues

 

[EnglishALT]

Okay, then what alternative do refugees have, really?

In other countries, refugees are not held in border patrol facilities.

Almost every country holds refugees in border facilities for security reasons. Japan for example has had a problem with a refugee committing suicide because of the conditions he faced in his facility.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1HK18Z

 

[Taste of Tea]

Okay, then what alternative do refugees have, really?

In the case of refugees from Latin America, I don't understand why they don't just migrate to other Latin American countries that neighbor their country of origin? I mean you'd think that they'd feel more comfortable in countries where Spanish is the most prominent language and the culture is more similar to what they're accustomed to, yet they'd rather travel hundreds of miles north through harsh terrain just to get to the United States where they'll face a harder time getting in... ? I just don't get it.

I also dislike the fact that Mexico just lets migrant caravans waltz right through their country without doing anything about it. They obviously have no intention of providing for the refugees themselves for an extended period of time; they'd just rather let them approach the U.S. border and hand over the problem to the United States.

 

[Roxas]

Almost every country holds refugees in border facilities for security reasons. Japan for example has had a problem with a refugee committing suicide because of the conditions he faced in his facility.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1HK18Z

That doesn't mean having border facilities is a good thing. The fact that anyone is committing suicide out of fear of border facility conditions is dreadful to be honest.

In the case of refugees from Latin America, I don't understand why they don't just migrate to other Latin American countries that neighbor their country of origin? I mean you'd think that they'd feel more comfortable in countries where Spanish is the most prominent language and the culture is more similar to what they're accustomed to, yet they'd rather travel hundreds of miles north through harsh terrain just to get to the United States where they'll face a harder time getting in... ? I just don't get it.

I also dislike the fact that Mexico just lets migrant caravans waltz right through their country without doing anything about it. They obviously have no intention of providing for the refugees themselves for an extended period of time; they'd just rather let them approach the U.S. border and hand over the problem to the United States.

Hand the problem over? Who exactly is the problem? Migrants?

Not going to accuse you of anything but this sounds awfully familiar to another historical "problem" group who were eventually, you know, victims of genocide. Because they were labeled a problem, instead of being treated as if they were, I dunno, people in need.

The reason they come to USA instead of another country is simply that the conditions here are better, provided you can eventually work towards citizenship and find a place to live. The other latin american countries they have the "option" of going to clearly aren't that great, otherwise they'd be fleeing there. Perhaps some of them do, but the United States is clearly a popular option because it's the best option, for most. Which is unfortunate, because instead of creating an actual program that helps people attain citizenship and become active members of society, we throw them in the border facility and treat them like criminals.

fwiw Australia does so as well, but they're not exactly the country to praise on migration issues

I suppose I should've clarified, most countries with higher standards of living and happiness than the united states don't hold migrants in border camps. Which, admittedly, narrows the list down to a few countries up in the nordic area. It's not a world-encompassing practice, though. Not all third world countries do that either.

Also, I'm basing this off of the conditions of US camps. Can't name too many countries that are on this level of fash just yet, but there are a few that stick out. Australia's colonizers handled its native population and its migrants horribly all throughout history, same with United States, same with etc etc.

It almost seems as if countries infiltrated by colonizers who have run out the natives are generally not good at handling migrants.

 

[EnglishALT]

That doesn't mean having border facilities is a good thing. The fact that anyone is committing suicide out of fear of border facility conditions is dreadful to be honest.

I will ask you the exact question as I asked Maedar, what is the alternative? A country's duty is to it's own citizenry, not to migrants, how would you handle the security concerns and tracking of migrants if you do not have border facilities?

Hand the problem over? Who exactly is the problem? Migrants?

Not going to accuse you of anything but this sounds awfully familiar to another historical "problem" group who were eventually, you know, victims of genocide. Because they were labeled a problem, instead of being treated as if they were, I dunno, people in need.

Just to note, in Germany this week a migrant from Africa ended up pushing an 8 year old boy and his mother in front of a train, the mother survived the boy did not.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190729-boy-8-dies-after-being-pushed-front-german-train

You can find a multitude of stories like this all across Europe and America when it comes to illegal immigration.

The reason they come to USA instead of another country is simply that the conditions here are better, provided you can eventually work towards citizenship and find a place to live. The other latin american countries they have the "option" of going to clearly aren't that great, otherwise they'd be fleeing there. Perhaps some of them do, but the United States is clearly a popular option because it's the best option, for most. Which is unfortunate, because instead of creating an actual program that helps people attain citizenship and become active members of society, we throw them in the border facility and treat them like criminals.

Sorry but you do not get to pick and choose, if you are fleeing violence you go to the next safest place, you do not get to go to the "best option". The minute you reach a country that does not have the problems you are fleeing, you need to stay or your cries of asylum ring hollow.

I suppose I should've clarified, most countries with higher standards of living and happiness than the united states don't hold migrants in border camps. Which, admittedly, narrows the list down to a few countries up in the nordic area. It's not a world-encompassing practice, though. Not all third world countries do that either.

Also, I'm basing this off of the conditions of US camps. Can't name too many countries that are on this level of fash just yet, but there are a few that stick out. Australia's colonizers handled its native population and its migrants horribly all throughout history, same with United States, same with etc etc.

It almost seems as if countries infiltrated by colonizers who have run out the natives are generally not good at handling migrants.

Japan and many other first world Asian countries would beg to differ, hell America has laxer standards for migration than Japan does! So is Japan a fascist country?

 

[gimmepie]

Just to note, in Germany this week a migrant from Africa ended up pushing an 8 year old boy and his mother in front of a train, the mother survived the boy did not.

You can find even more stories about non-immigrants doing that or worse. Don't cherry pick when the vast majority don't commit a single crime beyond the original immigration, especially not violent crime. I've shown you the statistics before, immigrants (illegal or otherwise) are less likely to commit crimes because of the fear of deportation.

Not that I'm against temporary detention, as I explained earlier. I just think this particular argument is extremely disingenuous. If you're anti-immigration, that's on you, but don't use falsities or disingenuous arguments to justify your view.

 

[EnglishALT]

You can find even more stories about non-immigrants doing that or worse. Don't cherry pick when the vast majority don't commit a single crime beyond the original immigration, especially not violent crime. I've shown you the statistics before, immigrants (illegal or otherwise) are less likely to commit crimes because of the fear of deportation.

Not that I'm against temporary detention, as I explained earlier. I just think this particular argument is extremely disingenuous. If you're anti-immigration, that's on you, butter don't use falsities or disingenuous arguments to justify your view.

If you want we can go into those statistics however it does not address my overall point. Specifically that a government's duty is to the protection of its citizens above all else. The government must be sure that the people they are letting in won't harm their citizens or they must refuse to let them in. A citizen committing a crime is on the citizen, an immigrant committing a crime is not only on the immigrant but also brings up the question as to why the government did not see the warning signs when they were let in.

 

[Corrin]

Even if you don't like the use of the word concentration camp, you have to admit that the conditions these people are in are appalling. Testimonies from people who were forced into these places say enough, do they not? And I don't think they should be forced in indefinitely, because then it is more of a prison don't you think?
And especially with ICE actually going around to peoples houses to take them away? It's like a dystopian story but it's happening. If someone does not have their proper papers why not just help them get them and let them stay home instead of dragging them away? Especially if they have a job and family.

And the crossings are happening more because of how the economy is, it really isn't anyones fault. Venezuela is in a crisis, for one, and Honduras is the most dangerous country in the Americas IIRC.

 

[EnglishALT]

Even if you don't like the use of the word concentration camp, you have to admit that the conditions these people are in are appalling. Testimonies from people who were forced into these places say enough, do they not? And I don't think they should be forced in indefinitely, because then it is more of a prison don't you think?
And especially with ICE actually going around to peoples houses to take them away? It's like a dystopian story but it's happening. If someone does not have their proper papers why not just help them get them and let them stay home instead of dragging them away? Especially if they have a job and family.

And the crossings are happening more because of how the economy is, it really isn't anyones fault. Venezuela is in a crisis, for one, and Honduras is the most dangerous country in the Americas IIRC.

If they committed a crime why should they be allowed to stay at home? What other crimes do we allow a person to just stay at home and not even go to the police station to post bail? If they are here illegally they should be kicked out, that is practically the law in every country on the planet!

Also in the news, a father of five was killed a few days ago by an illegal immigrant who was escaping deportation.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-...ho-once-sought-sanctuary-in-church-report.amp

 

[Corrin]

You missed my point. They should help them become legal like the prison system should be there to help rehabilitate inmates.

 

[EnglishALT]

You missed my point. They should help them become legal like the prison system should be there to help rehabilitate inmates.

Doesn't that just punish those who cannot easily get across the border? Those that want to immigrate here from say China, Africa, Russia, or the Middle East? They cannot cross the border easily they have to wait in line with the rest of the world.

 

[Corrin]

Helping people with the immigration process isn't punishing them?? I didn't say only specific people? I have no idea how you're reading what I'm saying.

 

[EnglishALT]

Helping people with the immigration process isn't punishing them?? I didn't say only specific people? I have no idea how you're reading what I'm saying.

If they are here illegally, and your plan is for them to stay here and get legal help to become legal citizens, then you are punishing the people who cannot easily migrate across a desert border to get here. Those illegals get to skip ahead of the line the rest of the world has to wait in, and enjoy all the benefits America provides while waiting for their citizenship, while those in other countries have to wait in their country of origin until they receive a green card or citizenship. In essence you are punishing those that follow the law by allowing those that break the law a path to citizenship and the ability to remain in the country.