I'd always support my country, whether it was right or wrong.

BlahISuck said:
Huh, that's funny. We have the same thing in Canada as we think of our national media as pretty inferior. Take Justin Bieber for example ;)
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Not to mention that cliche-ridden show Degrassi. (Though I love Nelly Furtado, who's from Canada.)

But honestly, Canadian media isn't too bad compared to the garbage that you get in Australia.

As for Lebanon...my family isn't very political, and view Lebanon's military in a negative light. My paternal grandparents didn't want my dad or his brothers to join the military because my dad lost three older cousins in the Lebanese Civil War. That was one reason why they ended up moving to Australia (Dad later went back, but he eventually went back to Australia). My family opposes Hezbollah and doesn't get why many Shia support it (my family is Shia) - I come from a very secular family, especially on my dad's side. No one seems to mind me criticising social problems in Lebanon - I'm not the only one in my family who is guilty of it. I used to be rather nationalistic, but over time I've grown critical of it, especially because it almost ruined my friendship with a Turkish guy (we didn't speak to each other for three months because I kept bashing the Ottoman Empire). Luckily both of us learned to be less nationalistic. We decided to never talk about the Ottoman Empire again - especially because I wasn't getting over things that happened a century ago. (Two of my great-grandfathers participated in the Arab rebellion against the Turks during WWI.) I wish everyone could put aside their nationalism, but alas, that's not going to happen anytime soon.
 
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I, for one, am a Libratarian. I believe in the Common Law and the Constitution for the united states of America. I believe in a limited government for the People, by the People. There's no such thing as a victimless crime. As long as one doesn't hurt someone, steal/damage someone's property, commit fraud or slander, then you're well within the law. It's about equal protection under the law and individual Rights. According to the Declaration of Independence, it is the Right of the People to overthrow the government. The Constitution is a contract between the government and the People on how the People were going to be governed. I recommend every American citizen to read the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights as well as their State Constitution.
 
I'm kind of on the fence about both Finland, my home country, and America, where I've lived and grown up in for the past decade.

Finland has many great laws that I really wish were the same here in the USA, but at the same time, I definitely don't deny that it's far from perfect over there. I'm also sure that some things have changed since I was last there, for better or for worse.

As for America - to me, it is a prime example of false advertisement; it has always claimed to be the 'land of opportunity' and 'land of the free', yet it's filled with bigots and hypocrites of all shapes and sizes. And while it is definitely not the only country with crappy people, it sure does hold a considerable number of them.

I don't really enjoy either type of government, nor how they are run, but they're currently set up in ways that we don't have much say in them (aside from who we vote for). But even then, you still don't have much control over what happens in the country as a whole, only what state you're in. (and that, again, depends on what kind of people you share your state with)

No country is perfect, but I definitely dislike America a lot more than I dislike Finland overall. I also hold no particular love or patriotism for either country. (although I'd rather be Finnish than American..)
 
America really is the Land of Oppertunity and freedom, well at least was until the act of 1871 and the Federal Reserve in 1913. Both are unconstitutional as they destroy the Rights of the citizens, which Congress had no authority to pass. With the Act of 1871, the united states of America became the United States of America. Notice the capitalization. With this change, the country became a corporation as well as the citizens that inhabit it. This country is a Republic, not a Democracy. We the People are suppost to be soverign as well as the States and the government is suppost to serve us, not the other way around.
 
BlahISuck said:
Must it suggest superiority? I am proud of Canadian and Chinese values and culture but (with the exception of Canada vs. the US hehe) I don't see it as making my culture better than yours. I do think it's unique and valuable, but I do think it's different than saying "we're better than you". And we can be proud of things without assuming an air superiority - if you're proud of your child's accomplishments, you don't necessarily think he's on another level compared to other children, do you? - all the while praising that he's the best kid in the world. I think it's possible to be proud without implying a stratification of nations between those which are worth more and less.
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Think of it this way: nationalism categorises us, and humans innately love to identify and be loyal to one particular category (can you say you honestly love China and Canada equally?). The natural pride that results in this is by definition divisive, because isn't pride based on some differentiating factor? You can't be proud of your child if he or she exactly the same as the other children; they have to be better in whatever aspect you're proud of.

Sure, it may not be meant maliciously and you right now may not feel like you're "better" than anyone else, but imagine a terrible natural disaster sweeps all of Asia and you find yourself instantly thinking of China before the other billions of people on that continent: that's where I think something is wrong.
 
I find no fault with a little patriotism when and where applied appropriately.

That said, there's not really any legitimate reason to let a sense of patriotism force you to do things that are wrong, things you are unwilling to do or things that you shouldn't be doing anyways. Patriotism is as much responsible for starting unnecessary wars as the people who spoke the words and committed the deeds to incite them.
 
I don't really loyal. I mean, I appreciate living in America. I appreciate what opportunities it has given me and my family. However, I wouldn't say I am downright loyal... I think loyalty is more sentimental.

Like. I am loyal to those I love. (Like friends and family.)
 
Nah.
I'm proud of the country I live in and will forever thank it for accepting me and my family in, but as an immigrant, I've never felt 100% American. At the same time, I've never felt 100% from the country I'm from either. I'll support the USA because I agree with it, but not because I'm obligated to.

iono, living in one country has always felt like a "temporary" thing to me, so this whole dulce et decorum est pro patria mori jazz never appealed to me.
 
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