J-E Discussion

[parallelzero]

I actually feel more comfortable with CG mecha than I do animated mecha now. The movements in Satellite's CG (aside from the first Aquarion, which we'll call their testing project) has been overall much more fluid than regular animation. AGE is an example of a new mecha series where the mecha movement bugs me. I know Gundams aren't the most flexible machines, but aside from the episode where the demon kid took it for a spin, the movements feel pretty stiff.

Besides, at least they bother blending it more with the animation these days. I remember back in the day when they just threw CG on over top and called it a day. XD

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Doesn't look horrible but next season is all about miniskirt wearing space pirates, just saiyan.

Yeah, it's going to be the show of the forever. Neon Genesis what? Fullmetal who?

You get used to it and eventually just sort of forget about it. At least this was my experience with Zoids and the little I saw of the first Aquarion.

I don't think that enough mecha series have even aired in the past few years for me to be able to get used to it, hah. We pretty much just had Gurren-Lagann and 00 Gundam with their glorious hand-drawn mecha pron back in '07, and since then there's been what--Gigantic Formula and Linebarrels? (I don't consider Star Driver a mecha series XD) So long as mecha remains a dying genre, animators just aren't going to try as hard as they could to actually make CG mechs look good.

I actually feel more comfortable with CG mecha than I do animated mecha now. The movements in Satellite's CG (aside from the first Aquarion, which we'll call their testing project) has been overall much more fluid than regular animation. AGE is an example of a new mecha series where the mecha movement bugs me. I know Gundams aren't the most flexible machines, but aside from the episode where the demon kid took it for a spin, the movements feel pretty stiff.

Besides, at least they bother blending it more with the animation these days. I remember back in the day when they just threw CG on over top and called it a day. XD

CG in anime is way better than when it was first used, I don't disagree with that. Just look at this clip from Golgo 13: The Professional XD Satellite did fine with the VFs in Macross Frontier, but I still haven't seen a single instance of CG mech animation that doesn't feel at least a little out-of-place. Fluid animation is one thing, but being a 3D object in an otherwise 2D environment is never going to look quite right no matter how good the animation gets. It's immersion-breaking.

There's hope, though. I'd have to really reexamine it to know why I feel this way, but when I first saw Berserker in Fate/Zero I felt like it was the first time that something had actually been enhanced over 2D animation in an anime. The stuff in Tiger & Bunny wasn't so bad either. It's looking like it just takes the right animation techniques to mask 3D, some studios are just more advanced or more motivated than others in this regard.

In unrelated news, even the Japanese apparently think that Smile Precure will involve monster battling of some sort:

Spoiler:

 

[Ryoutarou]

I thought that was a Kamen Rider joke at first. そうね~!

...

Yeah, I'll never understand Japanese humor. Though a monster battling Pretty Cure would be...interesting. They could definitely find ways to make bank by selling toys of all the little critters.

CG in anime is way better than when it was first used, I don't disagree with that. Just look at this clip from Golgo 13: The Professional XD Satellite did fine with the VFs in Macross Frontier, but I still haven't seen a single instance of CG mech animation that doesn't feel at least a little out-of-place. Fluid animation is one thing, but being a 3D object in an otherwise 2D environment is never going to look quite right no matter how good the animation gets. It's immersion-breaking.

I can totally agree with the notion that 3D objects will never look natural within a 2D environment. That said, if you see enough productions that do use CGI mecha, it stops being as jarring after a while, even if it doesn't look natural. And it's really all the better for it when you have a show that's not Gundam where a robot can move around at insane speeds and do Super Robot type attacks and have those movements that really show off a natural looking movement. This is one of the reasons I had a hard time watching that one VOTOMS OVA series where the Scopedogs were rendered in CGI, it just didn't work out too well.

 

[Taemin]

It's not that I dislike CGI being used in anime, it's just that most of the time it doesn't blend well.

I thought it was sucky enough when Beyblade, I believe it was G Revolution started using CGI beyblades, and they ended up not looking as good as the 2D ones. I noticed that way back in 2003 / 4 and was.. not impressed. I also remember those FREAKIN' HUGE 3D doors in Mewtwo's lab in the first Pokemon movie that completely stuck out. These days most of the time it's better, but eh..

Also, I can never manage to get myself to watch any PreCure series, even if they do seem worth it for a laugh.

 

[Ryoutarou]

Pretty Cure does seem like one of those franchises that you wouldn't really get people watching too often on the internet. A lot of the anime fandom online is scared to death of watching children's anime for some odd reason. (yet stuff like Bleach and Gundam are totally fine) I've actually always thought that the only reasons HeartCatch had a larger online audience was because fan favorite seiyuu Nana Mizuki was the lead. I also want to say Umakoshi's designs as well, but there was next to no one talking about Casshern Sins when it aired and that poor show totally deserved more admiration.

 

[A Pixy]

Mamoru Hosoda uses CGi really well in his movies. The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Summer Wars and the Sixth One Piece movie all had REALLY good looking CGi. Everyone should just do what he does. o3o

 

[Ryoutarou]

Yeeeah, I don't quite think that sort of thing would be feasible on a TV show budget.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Pretty Cure does seem like one of those franchises that you wouldn't really get people watching too often on the internet. A lot of the anime fandom online is scared to death of watching children's anime for some odd reason. (yet stuff like Bleach and Gundam are totally fine) I've actually always thought that the only reasons HeartCatch had a larger online audience was because fan favorite seiyuu Nana Mizuki was the lead. I also want to say Umakoshi's designs as well, but there was next to no one talking about Casshern Sins when it aired and that poor show totally deserved more admiration.

Funny thing is that Precure is, in some ways, basically a shounen with the genders reversed. They still fight, win, lose, train, gain new powers, protect others, fight for a lofty goal, and so on. It just happens to be with frills and rainbows and the power of love. Anyone who can derive entertainment from Bleach or Naruto should be able to get something out of Precure if they're comfortable enough with the girly-ness.

Heartcatch was my first Precure series and it was definitely because of the Umakoshi character designs. I really loved Casshern Sins and still think it's a god-tier anime that stands up to the greatest ever so I was willing to watch anything Umakoshi touched after that, even if it wasn't necessarily the art that made Casshern great. I'm actually entirely ambivalent about seiyuu and didn't even know until Heartcatch was over that a lot of its popularity in otaku circles came from the Nana Mizuki fandom.

There are a series of essays on the greatness of Heartcatch Precure at the blog Ogiue Maniax that I recommend reading for anyone on the fence about whether or not to jump into Precure. In fact, it's worth looking into even if you have interest in Heartcatch but not the Precure franchise as a whole.

Yeeeah, I don't quite think that sort of thing would be feasible on a TV show budget.

There are definitely some instances of CG in anime movies that look great because they actually have some budget to work with. The prime example:

Outdid the original so amazingly. The crazy geometric shapeshifting gave Ramiel the feeling of a cold, threatening, inorganic creature beyond human comprehension. It was already creepy enough as a faceless monolith in the original, but this took it to the next level.

 

[jpp8]

Mamoru Hosoda uses CGi really well in his movies. The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Summer Wars and the Sixth One Piece movie all had REALLY good looking CGi. Everyone should just do what he does. o3o

Let me just take this opportunity to say that anime is not a centralized industry. Like most mediums. Just because you saw something done one way in one anime doesn't mean that all studios have access to said method whether it be lack of funds or staff.

My theories on why PreCure isn't popular:
1. PreCure isn't a mature show for mature people such as myself.
2. It's too long to catch up with.
3. t's moe (more like kawaii) enough to be hated by the anti-moes, but not moe (actual moe) enough to be loved by the pro-moes. If that makes any sense.

Right now, I'm guilty of reason 2 with asdf backlog.

 

[Ryoutarou]

Funny thing is that Precure is, in some ways, basically a shounen with the genders reversed. They still fight, win, lose, train, gain new powers, protect others, fight for a lofty goal, and so on. It just happens to be with frills and rainbows and the power of love. Anyone who can derive entertainment from Bleach or Naruto should be able to get something out of Precure if they're comfortable enough with the girly-ness.

Heartcatch was my first Precure series and it was definitely because of the Umakoshi character designs. I really loved Casshern Sins and still think it's a god-tier anime that stands up to the greatest ever so I was willing to watch anything Umakoshi touched after that, even if it wasn't necessarily the art that made Casshern great. I'm actually entirely ambivalent about seiyuu and didn't even know until Heartcatch was over that a lot of its popularity in otaku circles came from the Nana Mizuki fandom.

There are a series of essays on the greatness of Heartcatch Precure at the blog Ogiue Maniax that I recommend reading for anyone on the fence about whether or not to jump into Precure. In fact, it's worth looking into even if you have interest in Heartcatch but not the Precure franchise as a whole.

Basically, yeah. And I think it's perfectly okay for people not to like it because it's too girly, we can't all be bronies. I just think it's weird for people to chastise it as this irredeemable children's dribble when stuff like One Piece, Bleach, Gundam, and whatnot have always been aimed at children. I dunno, it just bugs the ever loving crap out of me when certain blog sites treat this stuff as if it were leprosy.

Sins was a really great show and sort of what got me back into anime after a dry spell of not being interested by much else. I tend to have a much shorter tolerance period with most anime than I do with other shows, if it doesn't hook me in the first two episodes, I'm done with it. Sins just grabbed me right from the get go, heck, from those first few seconds before the opening, and never let go. The character designs were amazingly unique and stylish in that respect. I guess it was one of the reasons I thought it would attract hard core otaku, but it seems like Nana Mizuki's name was more of a draw. (which is a shame because I think Suit is a genuinely better show sans the animation, but I still like the designs of that show quite a lot)

There are definitely some instances of CG in anime movies that look great because they actually have some budget to work with. The prime example:


Outdid the original so amazingly. The crazy geometric shapeshifting gave Ramiel the feeling of a cold, threatening, inorganic creature beyond human comprehension. It was already creepy enough as a faceless monolith in the original, but this took it to the next level.

Yeeeah, any time you have a movie budge to work with, it's going to look a heck of a lot better than something the budget of a TV could pump out. Often times a TV show will have a higher budget, but have to spread it much much thinner.

1. PreCure isn't a mature show for mature people such as myself.

I've definitely seen people make this argument before and I hate it.

This reminds me that I still need to see DX 3, I hear it's actually good as far as the DX movies go. I also...really want to see how the interactions between HeartCatch's animation style mix with the others.

 

[parallelzero]

I really need to finish Sins. I have it all on Blu-ray but I always get distracted by currently airing stuff. ex: I had the Aquarion boxset for two years before I finished it.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

I'll respond to you guys tomorrow, for now my brain is mush XD I just marathoned all of Freezing tonight because the final uncensored blu-ray rips finally got subbed, and I want those four hours of my life back so very badly now.

 

[Weeaboo Name]

If it looks good, do it if it doesn't don't. My opinion on CGI in anime, creative and well thought out right?

Freezing lol. I almost ragequit that manga a little while ago, instead I just totally stopped caring about the main girl and guy.

 

[Melves]

This thread is awesome. Just saying.

The only shows I am intentionally perpetuating are Boku Ha Tomodachi Ga Sukunai and Maken-ki. You'll guess that the latter's concept is too generic and formualic to be considered a remotely worth-watching show, but I like it for SOME reason. The former is just awesome. I love everything in it -- from the comedy to the diversity of characters to the indirect romance. It's just plain awesomeness, does someone hopefully agree? Or does it clearly show any shallowness in my preferred genres? >.<

And continuing the topic of Freezing: the exact minute I saw the male protagonist and read a few lines on his role in the show, I FREEZE-D my downloads and move on.

 

[Weeaboo Name]

Of those two I was planning to watch Haganai but then I saw the art work they used for the show, I'm not usually picky about art but the manga just looks better. I might watch it when the manga is a little less fresh in my memory though.


Ben-To. Pleeeeeeeeeease let there be a second season. Haven't laughed so hard at a non Gintama comedy in ages.

 

[インフェルノの津波]

...I just watched Neon Genesis Evangelion...

What just happened?

 

[Weeaboo Name]

Did you watch the End of Eva film?

 

[インフェルノの津波]

No, I'm waiting for it to buffer.

I never expected the end to happen. Congratulations!

what the ****

 

[A Pixy]

The only purpose the original show has now is to make the Rebuild movies make more sense.

Also, when I said 'Do what he does' I didn't mean literally. I just mean only use CGi to help with a large shot. Make sure it's helping the animation on screen. If you make it the focus, people start seeing the flaws. Unless it's an all CGi show.

 

[Weeaboo Name]

Should watch those....but I probably won't soon.

Spoiler: