LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transexual) anyone?

[Weatherman Kiyoshi]

Since I'm still cooling down from some mental stress I was under today, I'm just going to do a little segment on this post, and only jump into the main one if/when something I must say shows up:

wow that took a long time to read O.O. personally im not gay but imo its not your choice but the things going around you that influence you. im a muslim from a pretty strict family in the uk and so im not allowed to be gay. but the school i go to has started taking this issue seriously. we recently had a drama production about gays and theyre trying to stop gay being used as an insult. just my opinion sorry if it offends anyone.

*Color cordination, so I can rebuttle each point.

No true whatsoever. Noit only does that not make sense, but I can tell you from personal experience that it's not true. I'm growing up in a household of an non-understanding mother (since I came out to her) that doesn't even know what it means to be actually gay, a father that loosely uses the "f" term and laughs at males that are low on masculine, so implying that all male homosexuals are feminine. The only ones in my family who actually have the right idea are my sister and brother, but it's not like I can really talk talk to them. And I've heard plenty of stories of homosexuals sprouting from even the most bigoted environments. My friend Meggie has a homophobic kamakazi mother, and has to be safetly assured by her friend that she can live at a friend's house when she tells her that's just bisexual. Enviroment has absolutely no effect on what your sexuality is. End of point.

Oh, just for lulz:
used ENVIROMENT!
Sexuality wasn't effected....

No offence to you, your parents, or your religion, but that is pathetic. You're not "allowed" to be gay? That is the sort of stupid thinking that gets these kind of homophobic laws in effect. Not saying that you youself are homophobic, no, I mean this "not allowed' thought. Homosexuality sprouts from everywhere, and you really can't stop it if you are. :/
Again, nobody chooses it, and it's not affected by environment.
So this "non-allow" does not make sense, and shouldn't be in any sort of religion.

This is why religion and minority rights can be like water and oil sometimes.
They can just never be mixed together properly.

That's great that your school is providing some insight into the minds of people. There is nothing wrong with gay individuals.

I mean, it's not like we're suddenly creatures that bump in the night when a Girl likes Girls and a Guy likes Guys.

Please read it all :3

 

[Kon~]

Since I'm still cooling down from some mental stress I was under today, I'm just going to do a little segment on this post, and only jump into the main one if/when something I must say shows up:



*Color cordination, so I can rebuttle each point.

No true whatsoever. Noit only does that not make sense, but I can tell you from personal experience that it's not true. I'm growing up in a household of an non-understanding mother (since I came out to her) that doesn't even know what it means to be actually gay, a father that loosely uses the "f" term and laughs at males that are low on masculine, so implying that all male homosexuals are feminine. The only ones in my family who actually have the right idea are my sister and brother, but it's not like I can really talk talk to them. And I've heard plenty of stories of homosexuals sprouting from even the most bigoted environments. My friend Meggie has a homophobic kamakazi mother, and has to be safetly assured by her friend that she can live at a friend's house when she tells her that's just bisexual. Enviroment has absolutely no effect on what your sexuality is. End of point.

Oh, just for lulz:
used ENVIROMENT!
Sexuality wasn't effected....

No offence to you, your parents, or your religion, but that is pathetic. You're not "allowed" to be gay? That is the sort of stupid thinking that gets these kind of homophobic laws in effect. Not saying that you youself are homophobic, no, I mean this "not allowed' thought. Homosexuality sprouts from everywhere, and you really can't stop it if you are. :/
Again, nobody chooses it, and it's not affected by environment.
So this "non-allow" does not make sense, and shouldn't be in any sort of religion.

This is why religion and minority rights can be like water and oil sometimes.
They can just never be mixed together properly.

That's great that your school is providing some insight into the minds of people. There is nothing wrong with gay individuals.

I mean, it's not like we're suddenly creatures that bump in the night when a Girl likes Girls and a Guy likes Guys.

Please read it all :3

Well said. I personally (and no offense intended here) believe that the majority of religious ideas, in every religion, are flawed, and the so-called "rule" about not being allowed to be LGBT. (Again, not attacking anyone personal here. I understand that people can get really extreme about that sort of thing). And the idea that LGBT comes from environment and upbringing? I disagree heavily there, too.

And concerning the earlier posts about laws, I shouldn't really put anything in as I am english and you're discussing american laws, but I don't think you should state a "fact" unless you're completely informed on the matter in hand.

 

[Weatherman Kiyoshi]

Since we are on religion, lemme just add one thing:

A lot of people against gay rights use that passage from the bible, you know, the one saying "no man shall lay with a man as he does with a woman".

Some christains use it as a scapegoat to why they don't support gay marriage.

Here's something to ponder:
The bible is also the same book that says that slavery is okay, and that you can not eat shrimp.
However, plenty of christains are very much anti-slavery and eat boatloads of shrimp.

So why do some hold so dear the no gay passage, but not everything else? :/

 

[Esper]

Just so this doesn't turn into a religion bash I'm gonna point out that not all religions are anti-gay. I know there are some churches in my area that have gay ministers (or whatever they're called) and I know a gay girl who goes to a Unitarian Universalist church. Of course UUs are about as non-religious a religion you can get, but that's not the point.

 

[Weatherman Kiyoshi]

Just so this doesn't turn into a religion bash I'm gonna point out that not all religions are anti-gay. I know there are some churches in my area that have gay ministers (or whatever they're called) and I know a gay girl who goes to a Unitarian Universalist church. Of course UUs are about as non-religious a religion you can get, but that's not the point.

I wasn't trying to religion bash, if anyone was offended. :/

I, myself, am a christain.
I'm not religious, but I live by this:

"God knows what right and wrong,
and he is not bigoted ."

I really do applaud churches that do accept minorities, whether they be race, sexual orientation, etc., because they know that;

Religion ≠ Need To Descriminate

What I was trying to point out with the bible is, people use it as a scapegoat for thier need to descriminate, and need it to pull out bogus arguments.
And that I bet a lot of bigots don't even read the rest of the bible, let alone follow it.

Just for clarification. ^w^

 

[Feign]

Plus there is the fact that some people believe that that specific passage is in reference to that specific tribe of people anyway... Some people just take the Bible more literally than others.

If we're touching on the nature vs. nurture thing (choice vs. natural), you can still look at it in terms of heterosexuality too, as it is not simply exclusive to homosexuality.

I believe that otherwise, "being gay" is natural completely, just as "being straight" is too. However, what if you were the last of you gender? Or for whatever reason, you never saw someone of the same sex in your life? You might be confused, but you could never properly act on your impulses. The same thing works exactly the same for heterosexuals if they never saw the opposite sex ever, they too might be confused.

The brain is an interesting thing, sometimes it will lie to us... XD

(sorry if that was confusing)

 

[Harmonie]

Since we are on religion, lemme just add one thing:

A lot of people against gay rights use that passage from the bible, you know, the one saying "no man shall lay with a man as he does with a woman".

Some christains use it as a scapegoat to why they don't support gay marriage.

Here's something to ponder:
The bible is also the same book that says that slavery is okay, and that you can not eat shrimp.
However, plenty of christains are very much anti-slavery and eat boatloads of shrimp.

So why do some hold so dear the no gay passage, but not everything else? :/

It is blatantly obvious: People use the Bible to make their personal prejudices "okay".

They don't want to admit it, but it is so obvious. Hiding behind their religion is such an easy way to get away with it, because one is not supposed to question somebody's "religious beliefs."

But I say wake up, people! Very few people (if any, dare I say) are against homosexuality because the Bible tells them so. So they are not truly religious beliefs. Still I say we use it against them and legalize gay marriage because there is a separation of church and state.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

You're an idiot. Really, just stop posting.

1. They don't have equal marriage.
2. There are no laws against heterosexuals, there are laws against homosexuals.
3. Lawyers would laugh in your face because you're the majority. Also, your work has to file a reason why you got fired. They either:
- Had a different reason and lied to you.
or
- Are actually stupid and you could sue them.

But seriously, you're retarded. Please, go away. Go far far away.

There is equal marriage in California.

Please see California Family Code §297.5

 

[kevcrash]

There is equal marriage in California.

Please see California Family Code §297.5

The fact is, there is no GAY MARRIAGE, just domestic partnership. You don't get nearly as many rights as married couples, therefore it is not equal

 

[Esper]

There is equal marriage in California.

Please see California Family Code §297.5

The "separate but equal" argument? I don't think so.

Even if domestic partnerships were exactly the same as marriages (they're not, for instance, at the federal level which treats them differently, and married couples don't have to show they live together) there is still the stigma of calling them by a different name.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

The "separate but equal" argument? I don't think so.

Even if domestic partnerships were exactly the same as marriages (they're not, for instance, at the federal level which treats them differently, and married couples don't have to show they live together) there is still the stigma of calling them by a different name.

Even states will full-fludged same-sex marriage do not grant any of the federal marriage benefits due to the Defense of Marriage Act so, aside from the name, California is on par with the other states that have same-sex marriage. Our domestic partnership law is the closer to actual marriage than other DP/civl union laws in other states.

If DOMA is repealed, we can easily ammend the Domestic Partnership Law to grant federal marriage benefits but until then, overturning Prop 8 will give same-sex couples nothing but the word "marriage" they already have everything else.

 

[.little monster]

There is equal marriage in California.

Please see California Family Code §297.5

No.

You live in California and you haven't heard of Proposition 8? Wow. This really tells me you have no idea what is going on in the world. You are so ignorant to the world around you, you have no idea what is happening locally.

That is very sad. Very sad indeed.

Gay marriage WAS *past tense* allowed in California, until November 2008 when Proposition 8 was passed, which revoked *took away* the right for gay people to get married.

Currently, the state of California is being sued by a couple of gay couples over Proposition 8, however it is not over yet. If they win, gay marriage will be allowed again. If not, it wont. But as of now, it is banned by the constitution of California.

Voting on whether if Proposition 8 should remain will come back later this year, notice I said later, which means it has not happened yet; thus, gay marriage is still banned.

There are only domestic partnerships, which do not give people the same rights and economic liberties that marriage does. Therefore, it is not equal as already stated.

But seriously, stop posting. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Every time you post an alien planet will be blown up. Surely you believe that.

 

[txteclipse]

I just want to drop in here to say something about the whole religion thing. Ultimately, if you think it's okay to be gay, that's between you and God. In the end, it's not other people you're going to answer to, it's Him. If you understand that and you're cool with it, then so am I.

 

[Weatherman Kiyoshi]

But seriously, stop posting. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Every time you post an alien planet will be blown up. Surely you believe that.

Noooooooo ;;
All those poor aliens.

And all those creatures made by Spore! D:

I just want to drop in here to say something about the whole religion thing. Ultimately, if you think it's okay to be gay, that's between you and God. In the end, it's not other people you're going to answer to, it's Him. If you understand that and you're cool with it, then so am I.

Oh yes, that is perfectly understood.

It's the fact that people abuse thier religion to fuel and scapegoat thier own fears and hate.

I bet even God facepalms about it.
Well, so do we.

 

[Shiny]

Would I seem like a prick if I said I didn't believe in Religion.

 

[Feign]

Lol, nope. That was more specifically in reference for those who would like to, or still do.

I have my own beliefs of a higher power as well :3

 

[Shiny]

Oh I believe in higher power still, not just a God.

 

[Kon~]

About the fact that there is a Bible passage saying it's "wrong" to be gay:

I believe there's also one saying that women aren't allowed to speak in public.
And that God loves everyone, and at the same time, God is capable of smiting anyone who opposes him.
And that a man who could perform "miracles" was killed, and then came back to life and was never seen again.

So it's ok to not believe in gay rights, and at the same time to believe that a two-thousand year old zombie will return any day now?

This is why I'm strictly atheistic.

 

[Weatherman Kiyoshi]

About the fact that there is a Bible passage saying it's "wrong" to be gay:

I believe there's also one saying that women aren't allowed to speak in public.
And that God loves everyone, and at the same time, God is capable of smiting anyone who opposes him.
And that a man who could perform "miracles" was killed, and then came back to life and was never seen again.

So it's ok to not believe in gay rights, and at the same time to believe that a two-thousand year old zombie will return any day now?

This is why I'm strictly atheistic.

Okay, I think you were only trying to expand on my point but that was a bit too much overboard.

That kinda bashed religion right there, which is exactly what not to do when you're trying to help people understand that being gay is okay.

 

[Kon~]

Okay, I think you were only trying to expand on my point but that was a bit too much overboard.

That kinda bashed religion right there, which is exactly what not to do when you're trying to help people understand that being gay is okay.

Ehh... you're right. Sorry. :/

I do get a bit overboard about stuff like this, and I'll admit to going a bit far there. I apologise to anyone who might be offended by that.