Metagame Discussion Thread

[Anti]

Metagame Discussion Thread

This is the thread where PokéCommunity members can discuss the current OU, UU, and Uber metagames. Most of the Strategies and Movesets forum is dedicated to team rating and individual movesets, so a discussion thread is a refreshing change of pace from the usual moveset and team rating threads. This thread will also be much more heavily moderated than other threads on the forum since discussion threads are much more likely to melt down without strict control over the thread. Remember to follow the rules and have a good time discussing the metagame!

I. How Discussions Will Operate

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Discussions will not be limited by a selected topic, so everything will evolve naturally. If the topic slowly changes, that's okay. Heated debate is strongly encouraged (as long as your are being respectful and using logic and evidence when posting your opinions), but don't take anything too far and remember that it is just Pokémon. also, try to stick to one discussion to prevent this thread from turning this thread into a chaotic mess of random posts, which is anything but a discussion.

Discussions will be limited to metagame discussions. However, some metagame discussions that will not be allowed to take place include tier discussions and moveset discussions, as they already have their own discussion threads. To discuss these topics, just follow the links provided. Almost everything else is fair game to discuss with your fellow PCers.

Remember, this thread relies on you, the member, to be a success. Please do your part in being informed and logical while posting. This will ensure that this thread is the home of several quality discussions and a great place for PCers to voice their opinions about the current metagame.

II. Rules And Regulations

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→ Explain your thoughts in full detail when necessary. If your thought is brief and does not require a lot of explanation, you do not need to go into unnecessarily long essays about what you think. On the other hand, if your thought is rather complex or your have a position to defend (or are disagreeing with somebody else's), then you will need to fully explain your thoughts. While any opinion can be voiced, it must be backed up or it will not be taken seriously or respected until you explain why you have the opinion you do. This will help to promote a thoughtful and interesting discussion. Any posts that do not follow this rule will be promptly deleted, and breaking this rule could result in receiving infractions from a moderator, so don't do it.

→ Do not defy logic in your posts. This basically means that you should not be saying things that aren't true. Make sure that you are unbiased and always be sure that your evidence is relevant and solid. Saying that Snorlax is not a good way to deal with Choice Scarf Heatran is not adding to the discussion, and posts containing too much flawed logic will be promptly deleted. If you make too many posts deemed "bad" by the moderators, you will be infracted by them for posting low-quality posts.

→ Do not insult or flame other members. This should be very obvious, but discussion threads are often reduced to insults and useless flame wars. Anybody involved in a flame war will receive an infraction immediately, no exceptions. Flame wars are just spam and take away from the discussion as a whole, and they will not be tolerated. Insults are handled in the same way, only first offenders will be warned not to insult another member again. However, you will only get one warning before insults are treated like flame wars, which will result in an infraction no matter what.

→ A moderator's judgment on if you have broken a rule or not is final. This applies to all of the rules. Annoying the moderators with visitor messages and/or private messages about how your post should not have been deleted will not get you anywhere, so you might as well not even bother. Bothering moderators about their decisions will only get you into further trouble and will get you infracted in a heartbeat.

III. Closing Comments

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Let the discussion begin! Have a good time and feel free to voice your opinions (assuming they are properly backed up, of course). Let's try to bring out the full potential of this thread by informing and challenging each other, and let's have a good time doing it!

Also, huge thanks to BeachBoy for the format design!

 

[BeachBoy]

'Kay, let's set down the "warning." Anti here made an excellent discussion thread, and this won't (unlike other failed S&M discussions) go up in flames. Ya'll have a track record of absolutely failing at discussion threads, but here's a chance to be good lil' cupcakes. :3 D_A and I won't be holding back. You try to derail this thread, we'll delete your post, and or infraction you. (Don't come crying to us either, you're at fault) So please, keep it intelligent and, overall, clean. D_A, Smarties, Britney, and I don't want to infract every other post here.

Now *cuts ribbon* gogogo.

 

[.]

Yay first post =D Although it's not official, Shaymin-S is under voting on Smogon to see if it is uber or not, and apparently the Uber side is winning. It may be premature to pass judgement on Shaymin-S, but are there any opinions? I don't think it centralizes the metagame nearly as much as Garchomp did, nor will it ever be as broken (since it relies on luck rather than sheer power). If Shaymin-S is officially "OU", will there be any major changes in the way teams are constructed? Much like the way teams were constructed during the Garchomp era (Cresselia was seen a lot more, now it's virtually unused). Stall seems to be making a comeback, although from all the teams I've face, stall broke down after a few long turns. Scizor is also a major pain in the ass, since most of it's counters are Stealth Rock weak, and a lot of them also are easy to stop otherwise (Gyarados, Zapdos, and Rotoms are the major counters, and Tyranitar can take 2/3 of these mentioend threats). Another Pokemon I've noticed coming into the metagame is Rhyperior. I underestimated quite a bit, but I've found that I had to sacrifice almost 1 Pokemon per match to handle the Sub Swords Dance set. It packs immense power, and can set up on quite a few things; Blissey, Bronzong, Cresselia, etc...It's easy to stop once the Sub is gone, however. It's piss poor speed and common weaknesses are oh so easy to handle. The Rock Polish set worries me, since with Jolly it outruns even Base 125's, and is outsped by Base 130's by 2 measly points. Adamant still has the potential to outrun all Base 110s (358), although Max Speed 115's stop it. Trick on basically every Psychic/Ghost type hurts the ability to stop them with Blissey/Snorlax, the latter of which is almost never seen anymore since the special threats hit too hard. It's ridiculous how powerful the Special Attackers have become, and the possible addition of Latios in OU doesn't help Snorlax's case at all. Choice Band Lax is still a very potent threat, and actually a great way to stop Heatran, who is at an all time high.

Taking a turn to UU, Absol hasn't been breaking the metagame as I had predicted. It has no solid counter per se, but it has a lot of checks. Technitop is the best check for it, as Mach Punch OHKO's and Sucker Punch from even a +2 LO Absol never OHKOs. Technitop in general is a great overall choice for teams with the growing popularity of things like Omastar, Kabutops, and Sharpedo. Drapion is not a counter anymore, since Superpower comes close to OHKOing, and Sucker Punch finishes off whatever Superpower leaves behind. Fire Blast is not needed for Steelix, who is OHKO'd. Probopass and Aggron aren't checks, Skuntank is in the same boat as Drapion as well. PC may have moved Absol to BL, but it still remains UU on Smogon. Kabutops remains a UU Limbo, correct? I think testing of it sounds good, since the counters for it have a chance to be stopped by the mixed/SD set. Both of them are very viable choices.

Uber metagame is in the worst shape it's ever been. Nasty Plot Darkrai REALLY screws over its counters, as the mono attacker is scarier than ever. There's no need for Focus Punch to handle Blissey, as +2 Focus Blast is an easy 2HKO, and +2 Dark Pulse still shaves a good percent off. I don't know what counters this guy yet =p. Giratina-O is very overlooked, as Blissey can do nothing to stop it. Immune to Seismic Toss means a Sub/CM/Dragon Pulse/Shadow Ball set rips apart the entire Uber metagame. Revenge killers that are common (Palkia, Darkrai, Dialga, etc...) are all special based, meaning that G-O can soften the blows as well as hit them for super effective/high damage.

That's my rant =]

 

[Anti]

Alright, awesome. I think an appropriate way to start off would be the Platinum OU metagame getting kicked off, and how new moveset additions have changed everything. Pokémon usage has flipped all over the place. Usage statistics are here (though they will be getting an update for this last month soon).

Some Pokémon have not really moved much (like Salamence, Metagross, and Lucario) since DP, but Pokémon like Scizor and Zapdos have obviously skyrocketed in usage due to gaining Bullet Punch and Heat Wave, respectively. Heatran has also gone way up for its ability to effectively revenge kill so many Pokémon that's it's tough to count. Kingdra also benefited from the transition thanks to getting Outrage, which makes it an effective DD sweeper (and it is still the best Rain Dance sweeper in the OU tier as well).

Meanwhile, Spiritomb took a big hit with the addition of Trick allowing the Pokémon it's supposed to counter beat it up and cripple it. Gliscor also took a hit with Lucario getting Ice Punch, and it has generally lost its ability to reliably beat a lot of physical threats. It also seems that Hypnosis going back to 60 accuracy hurt its users, as Bronzong and Gengar both fell fairly significantly in usage. They both got Trick though.

Speaking of Trick, when battling, that has been my number one problem. It has had a big impact on the game, and it has helped in neutering SR suicide leads like Azelf. Still, TrickScarf makes Blissey less reliable and gives slow teams (especially stall) a really rough time. The addition of Trick has added as many problems to the game as it has fixed, easily.

Other additions have hurt stall too, in my mind. Outrage Salamence and Superpower Dragonite make two formidable sweepers that stall can easily have trouble taking down. Kingdra getting Outrage, as previously mentioned, really helped it and now gives stall another problem to deal with. Shaymin-S/Skymin also gave stall yet another problem, but it could be banned. The vote is currently very close on Smogon as the link shows (currently 57-53 in favor of banning it to the Uber tier). If the margin holds up, stall will be spared from a solid subseeder and special sweeper. Its ban could have a fairly large effect on the metagame though, as the top Pokémon used might be used in part to beat Skymin. Time will tell. Tyranitar gaining Aqua Tail to take down Hippowdon and Gliscor did not help either. It's an even grimmer world for stall in my opinion, though it's still an effective strategy; I just feel it's outclassed by most forms of offensive teams right now. Oh, and did I mention Scizor?

Platinum seems to be more widely hated then DP was way back when, which might be overreaction to change that might not be as big as people think, or maybe it isn't. Platinum is such a mixed bag for me: Trick is very annoying, and sweepers becoming even more powerful is not helpful, but on the other hand, Pokémon that used to be low OU or BL now are wisely used, which is a nice breath of fresh air. Teams are very predictable now though, almost to the extent of how you would just expect to be Garchomp on the opponent's team before its ban. I prefer DP, as I feel that it is more skill-oriented. Platinum will hopefully get better as it goes on like DP did, but right now, it's a largely monotonous metagame at this point.

What do all of you think about Platinum's updates' effects on the metagame?

EDIT: Yipes, beaten by Vance. lol

I would agree/disagree but I don't know much about Ubers or UUs :(

Also I'm glad you brought up the Rotom forms. They seem like very capable defensive Pokémon from the battles I've played in as well as those I've watched, but the Pursuit weakness can be troublesome (much like it was with ScarfGar in DP).

Also, I'd rather keep Skymin's tier status debate to the tier thread itself, but if we're just stating what we think, then for me, it's not uber. Just my take though, lol. Guess I'm not easy to impress =p

 

[ABYAY]

Since I dropped from UU for now, and I've never done Ubers, I'll give my two words.

Skymin: Skymin is definitely one of the most feared Pokemon at the time with Serene Grace, Air Slash, Seed Flare, Leech Seed, and great coverage. I personally see it going to Uber with its stall-breaking powers. If it didn't get Earth Power, then I would probably say OU at that point. If it does go Uber, then Shaymin-land might actually try to take its place since it too gets those moves, is more durable, and not weak to SR. It can still Sub-Seed, Specs (It gets Air Slash too, as well as Earth Power), and it can pull an LO set just as easily. Also, with its increased bulk, it can tank rather well, showing its usefulness with Aromatherapy and Natural Cure to absorb status. So, to conclude, Skymin's shift to Ubers should mean an increase in Shaymin usage. If Skymin remains OU, then Shaymin will barely ever be seen.

Heatran: Heatran didn't get any better. It's just that the current metagame favors it to revenge certain threats, coming in with its extremely useful resistances. Its use actually started to rise late D/P from my knowledge. It's a staple to many teams, capable on coming in against the likes of a Skymin Seed Flare or a Scizor Bullet Punch (Beware Superpower!). It can come in on various fire attacks going at Scizor, giving it a Flash Fire boost and causing some serious damage. I don't expect Heatran usage dropping anytime soon. It's just too good, but it's nowhere near Uber.

Scizor: Mediocrity to superb. Simply said, Scizor is now a dominant force with its Technician Bullet Punch. It really causes some damage to teams that don't have a steel/bug resist. With only one weakness, good defenses, and some resistances, it can trap the likes of Gengar with a Pursuit, decimate teams by setting up on Blissey that lacks Flamethrower, and pound away with a Swords Danced Bullet Punch. 90 base power isn't a lot, but 130 base attack that is doubled sure sounds threatening in my books. This bug is just awesome (Personally a favorite bug of mine)

Salamence: Salamence took Dragonite's secret recipe of DD/Outrage and gave it not only to himself, but Kingdra. DD LO Outrage from this thing OHKOs Vaporeon (It did mine anyway), and it's a true menace to the OU metagame. Seriously, bring a Timid ScarfGar to check this thing, or suffer a horrible fate.

Kingdra: What used to be an average Pokemon is now a beast to handle. Having no weaknesses and above average defenses, Kingdra can easily Substitute and Dragon Dance up. Most non-STAB attacks from walls don't break this thing's Sub, which usually results in a horrible defeat for the opponent. However, we can't forget that Kingdra has Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, and Ice Beam as solid special attacks to take down typical physical walls. Bring a decently hard hitter with good defenses to help stop Kingdra.

Metagame status: Unbalanced...definitely. Seriously, Platinum didn't make D/P's offensive metagame better. In fact, it made it almost over-offensive with a thousand stallbreaking sets and Trick. Stall is extremely difficult to do now (still possible), and teams usually rely on resistances. I'm not saying it's a bad thing (more prediction based rather than send in a wall to block an attack), but it is unbalanced. Stealth Rock destroys some teams, which makes teams even trickier to assemble a team not weak to it. Various teams pull the aforementioned "Suicide lead" that tries to prevent the foe's Stealth Rock from entering the field, as well as setting up its own (Think Azelf and Aerodactyl).

My opinions are just opinions. My logic may be flawed, but I'm giving my thoughts on Platinum. As unbalanced it is, I still like playing it except for Gaymin-S taking my hax god skills away.

 

[.]

I almost forgot about Salamence! Maybe because it's amazingly threatening Dragon Dance set has been passed over for the mediocre MixMence version with Outrage > Brick Break. Salamence with a Yache Berry, with the moveset of Fire Fang/Earthquake/Outrage destroys the entire metagame with little trouble. Life Orb isn't necessary, as after a single Dragon Dance, an Adamant Salamence has 607 Attack. That's pretty damn impressive. Now, Dragon Dance with Outrage was exclusive to Dragonite in D/P, but Salamence's advantages over Dragonite are numberless. Better speed, higher Attack, better ability, etc...Dragonite is just plain outclassed as a Dragon Dancer.

In D/P, Cresselia was the best Garchomp counter availible, but even that took between 46-55% from Choice Banded Outrage. Salamence is even stronger than Garchomp, and a +1 Outrage with Life Orb does between 62-73%.

Keep in mind, Salamence will not be breaking the metagame like Garchomp did, but it has definite counter, especially with a Life Orb attatched. Hippowdon is your best, and perhaps only bet.

 

[Syaoran]

I haven't played the game recently, but according to the new changes (and pokemon additions) it seems like stall could still be a reliable strategy; The new Rotom forms and the removal of Garchomp and possibly Skymin plays a big part in this - Rotom's access to W-o-W, decent speed and defences, fits perfectly into a stall metagame, or at least a really defensive one since a physical sweeper will be burned instead of being poisoned. Coupled with the queen of special defence, Blissey, it looks like a very reliable strategy. The main wall-breakers like Infernape and Tyraniboah are still a big problem here, but aren't hard to stop if you play it right.

ScarfHeatran is pretty much the only useful form of that pokemon now, at least to me. The ability to outspeed many pokemon who would otherwise OHKO it and exploding on a designated counter is what makes Scarf so valuable. Scizor is a great clean up sweeper, especially with the addition of Bullet Punch. Running both Quick Attack and BP isn't a bad idea, as it helps getting rid of annoying "counters" such as Zapdos and other water pokemon who laugh at BP.

Hypnosis being at 60% is the icing on the cake. I hated how Gengar could rule the entire game depending if it scored a hit. That leaves pokemon like Venomoth and Roserade much more desired for inflicting sleep. Even Trick-Scarf-Smeargle seems more viable now in this new environment.

There's nothing to talk about UU since no one really cares, or just other issues are more important to be resolved before attempting to redo it.

 

[Anti]

Celebi hurts normal Shaymin enough as it is (below 100th in usage before Skymin came into the picture, which shocked me), so Skymin doesn't help. I've personally found it underwhelming, and it does have several checks (though few counters), so I never had a problem with it. Scarftran revenge revenge + not letting it come in was enough for me.

Also, I see what you mean by "Heatran didn't get any better," but I really think it did since as you mentioned, the metagame around it favors it more. It's kind of like how Boah is a lot better when stall is omnipresent than when things are like they are now. I mean, I see what you mean since Heatran itself didn't get any notable improvements, but I still think it got "better." Guess it's just how you define "better," lol.

With Scizor, I actually find the SDer an inferior SDluke. It has no way of beating aerial Pokémon like Salamence and Gyarados (though Bullet Punch actually does a lot to Mence, but half the time it can Roost anyways). Zapdos is also a problem and one cannot forget Heatran, who doesn't even need a Choice Scarf to revenge kill it. Scizor can get by Heatran though, as it does learn Agility and Superpower. Agility would be great to beat Heatran, but it probably would be inferior to the Swords Dancer since bullet Punch is all the "speed" it needs. Back to my point about it being an inferior SDluke though...Lucario can get past those flyers with Stone Edge (though it usually needs Jolly to beat Salamence). Extremespeed also shaves a lot off of Zapdos, and with Stealth Rock damage accounted for, Zapdos will be in KO range for almost any revenge killer (which could open up a Scizor or Skymin sweep). Close Combat has a way better offensive type than Bullet Punch and it has greater base power. Scizor can't wall break like Lucario can at all, and being walled by the top Pokémon in OUs is bad. CB Scizor is more effective in my view, as U-Turn is a great scouting tool, and Bullet Punch can pick off any ~60% enemy that doesn't resist it. Heatran isn't safe at all either, and Pursuit is so insanely useful for slaying ScarfGar that I couldn't even begin to describe it.

As for Outrage Salamence, I can vouch for its effectiveness both as a user of it and as somebody who has taken a beating from it. The DDer has swept through most of my team many times before (though I actually win a majority of those battles because the opposing teams seem so centralized around a DDmence sweep). Either way, it reminds me of Garchomp, only it's tough to revenge kill but easier to wall (oh, and Stealth Rock weakness). The one thing about Salamence that Garchomp could never do is threaten Draco Meteor at the same time as that CB Outrage (which is also very effective, might I add). Salamence and Dragonite too are both very versatile threats.

EDIT: While I agree with pretty much everything you said Sya, walls have to worry about TrickBand/specs/Scarf a lot more than they had to in DP. Sweepers have gotten so many upgrades too. Also, Toxic Spikes have almost no effect on the top ten Pokémon at all, and Toxic doesn't effect the many steels that are around.

That being said, all of my losses have been against stall with one exception, but you could probably blame that on my team structure. What I'm trying to say is that stall can work still, but it's way harder to pull off (though agreed, the likely ban of Skymin will help) in this new environment.

Also not like it really matters, but RestTalk Heatran makes a great special tank and doesn't mind taking TrickSpecs/Scarf. Scarftran is obviously more useful in the current metagame, but ScarfTran is one of the most useful Pokémon around. That we can all agree on.

 

[Xebelleon]

With Platinum's debut, I am disappointed that Heat Wave is the only common change in terms of Egg Move (Slugma only) that I have noticed.

How useful is Ice Punch on a Lucario?
Wonder if my Hippowdon will still hold up against this Outrage Salamence...

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

I'm still not very fond of the metagame changes to Togekiss. He got nothing in Platinum, while the new Rotom formes are major hindrances to him. As an additional slap in the face, his #1 counter--Zapdos--has jumped to the 4th most used Pokemon.

To my surprise, the #1 most driving force in the current metagame wasn't Skymin; it's Scizor. This thing humiliates teams that rely on a sweeper to set up and sweep late-game.

Either way, the metagame is extremely unpredictable now and very volatile.

 

[Lalapizzame]

With Platinum's debut, I am disappointed that Heat Wave is the only common change in terms of Egg Move (Slugma only) that I have noticed.

How useful is Ice Punch on a Lucario?
Wonder if my Hippowdon will still hold up against this Outrage Salamence...

Ice Punch on Lucario helps push down Gliscor, the previous most common counter to Physical Lucario excluding HP Ice in D/P.

Platinum has brought the Golden Age for offensive teams, leaving stall teams having to worry about more threats, Trick just going "HAHAHA" at them, yeah...Platinum really is a load of anti-stall material.

"Lala post more you lazy boy"

Platinum has basically slapped Scizor and Heatran in everyone's face and made them seem so good you just can't resist them. The same can be said about other common threats such as Outrage Mence, Heat Wave Zapdos, and Earth Power Celebi etc. Just don't expect to see something new even after laddering for a while, I bet most likely at least 1 in every 10 matches will have a Skymin, 2 or more out of 10 will have Scizor and Heatran. Oh, and just don't switch Hippowdon into Outrage, because it's a guaranteed 2HKO from LO Outrage after a Dragon Dance, but even switching in like that is lol. Bullet Punch Scizor is obviously a good Pokemon, otherwise why would it be so common, for it has a priority move of 90 BP =p.

 

[Archer]

Nintendo has brought new moves to the table in every new game, in the form of Move Tutors, etc.

This time, they went overboard in most cases. Outrage would be a constructive upgrade to pokemon such as Kingdra and Flygon. Instead, they insist on giving it to Salamence.

Superpower is also rampant, however it's not nearly as bad. It does give several pokemon the ability to break sturdy walls, though. Dragonite couldn't previously run a decent mixed set, it can now OHKO Blissey.

On top of this, they had to spam Trick across the board. It removes the element of strategy for wall-breaking and made the few viable users obsolete. I can't see why they didn't hand out Recover or Slack Off. It would mean more pokemon have access to reliable recovery. I mean seriously, why does Infernape have Slack Off and not Snorlax?

Here's the worst of it: These changes can't be undone without seriously hurting the next generation of competitive play. What I mean, is that they can't remove access to these moves without denying the transferal of pokemon across from 4th Gen to 5th Gen. They've really dug themselves into a hole here...

I've got an idea for the next topic. :D

 

[.]

Oh, and just don't switch Hippowdon into Outrage, because it's a guaranteed 2HKO from LO Outrage after a Dragon Dance, but even switching in like that is lol. Bullet Punch Scizor is obviously a good Pokemon, otherwise why would it be so common, for it has a priority move of 90 BP =p.

Yes, because people are going to let DD Mence get in a DD and THEN switch in Hippowdon. Hippowdon still remains one of the most solid Salamence counters. The only ones I can think of that top it are Cresselia and perhaps Suicune.

 

[Samson]

i think it's pretty obvious there wasn't much thought put into who needed what. it looks like a matter of matching colors with each other, if you get what i mean. there are very few cases were beneficial stretches were made (e.g. Superpower... on Flareon o_O) to boost capabilities. there are so many more that could use the same kind of stretches for their movepool.

 

[Goldeneyes]

I want to know how useful Mixmence is in the the seriously imbalanced platinum metagame

 

[GoldenBagon]

Someone May Of Posted This But
Bullet Punch/SwordDance/Agility/Baton Pass Scizor is a Pain
Along With A Team Of Gliscor+ Other Annoying Sub/Baton pass?stat Increaser/ Stat Increaser
Smeargle Is Seeing Alot More Play Thanks To Its Unlimited Movepool
Trick Is The Biggest Problem Ive Faced So Far Giving You A Choice Scarf Which May Turn To Your Advantage If You Running A DD/OR/SUB Kingdra Like I Do:)
Kingdra Seeing More Play Than Specsmence And Mixmence
Hippodon Being Replaced With Aerodactyl
Mamoswine and Weavile Seeing More Play Due To Skymin/Gliscor Over Use
T-tar Seeing Less Play For Reasons I Dont Know
Steelix seeing More Play As a Physical Wall
Pinsir Seeing More Play for reasons i dont know...
Weezing UU No Idea Why Everyones Using Him With Sludge Bomb/Flamethrower/Explosion/and another move
Yanmega Seeing More Play As Sub/u-turn/Hypnosis/Bug Buzz

Thats All I Can ThinkOF @ The Top Of My head

 

[Archer]

Someone May Of Posted This But
Bullet Punch/SwordDance/Agility/Baton Pass Scizor is a Pain
Along With A Team Of Gliscor+ Other Annoying Sub/Baton pass?stat Increaser/ Stat Increaser
Smeargle Is Seeing Alot More Play Thanks To Its Unlimited Movepool
Trick Is The Biggest Problem Ive Faced So Far Giving You A Choice Scarf Which May Turn To Your Advantage If You Running A DD/OR/SUB Kingdra Like I Do:)
Kingdra Seeing More Play Than Specsmence And Mixmence
Hippodon Being Replaced With Aerodactyl
Mamoswine and Weavile Seeing More Play Due To Skymin/Gliscor Over Use
T-tar Seeing Less Play For Reasons I Dont Know
Steelix seeing More Play As a Physical Wall
Pinsir Seeing More Play for reasons i dont know...
Weezing UU No Idea Why Everyones Using Him With Sludge Bomb/Flamethrower/Explosion/and another move
Yanmega Seeing More Play As Sub/u-turn/Hypnosis/Bug Buzz

Thats All I Can ThinkOF @ The Top Of My head

Um, What The Heck Do Most Of These Changes Have To Do With The Platinum Move Tutors?
Seriously. That Scizor is pointless with Bullet Punch and Agility. Outside of Bullet Punch, it's an old set. Smeargles options haven't changed. I agree with Trick, it causes problems although. Kingdra is good, however I don't think it sees that much usage. Mixmence with Outrage>Brick Break is rising in usage. (I've been running it since the beginning.) Aerodactyl and Hippowdon are completely different. Mamo and Weavile still have to deal with Scizor's Bullet Punch and the Heatran usage. Ttar is rampant. I don't play UU, although in OU, Yanmega is seeing less usage, gaining no new moves of interest.

You may want to think things through a little better. :D

 

[GGFan]

My opinion on the current world of Pokemon in the American circuit:


Pokemon in America today is pretty one-dimensional. It wasn't too long ago where you had various sites to compete in and more than one gen to test your expertise in. Even when RSE came out, the decline of the previous two gens was more of a slow build-up, but when DP emerged as a competitive entity, the other gens died out much quicker.

There are a few things we have to look at to figure out WHY Pokemon in America appears smaller than it's ever been before. One attribute is Smogon, which has more-or-less monopolized Pokemon in the American scene. I feel as if the domination of Smogon has intimidated people from even trying sites, as Shoddy has gotten people thinking that Netbattle is a waste of time. A site is useless without a venue to battle in, which leaves only Shoddy. Since Shoddy only offers DP, sites don't have a lot to work with. They have to compete with Smogon and they have nothing to offer that Smogon doesn't, making any efforts futile.

Another attribute is obviously Shoddy, which killed Netbattle in the American scene. When RSE came out on Netbattle, it gathered flocks of people wanting to play it. Netbattle expanded and became much bigger, but the difference is that Netbattle was originally invented for RBY and GSC. Therefore, Netbattle didn't completely eradicate the previous two gens and the thousands of newcomers to the competitive scene would have options if they didn't like RSE, or wanted to try something new. However, Shoddy only has one gen so new players are basically forced to adapt if they want to play on a competitive level.

The new limits that have been imposed on the competitive scene on America have greatly downsized Pokemon in the American circuit. But I think another attribute that I'd like to mention is that I feel competitive Pokemon isn't taken as seriously in America as it is in Europe. Having battled in the European circuit for 2 and 1/2 years now, I think Pokemon is treated with more value and respect in Europe. It's almost as if it's a sport, which may come across as silly to many casual people but I like this attitude. It's created a much greater atmosphere and the thought of playing in a site where all four gens are treated equally is a site I think everyone should go. Everyone who thinks they're really good at least.

 

[airconditioning]

It could just be that D/P brought in a lot of new players. Many new players that came because of D/P (myself included) have no interest in previous generations.

 

[GGFan]

It could just be that D/P brought in a lot of new players. Many new players that came because of D/P (myself included) have no interest in previous generations.

The point is that D/P did bring in alot of players, but there's nothing to get them interested about other gens. D/P will just die if a new simulator comes out with the 5th gen, and that's kind of shoddy (pun).