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Metagame Discussion Thread

I never thought I'd live to see the day when Empoleon would actually be OU...

Poor Yanmega =/
 
Hahahaha, finally Yanmega got kicked down to the BL tier. It's about time it did. Anyway, I'm surprised Electivire is still OU. GOD, it's been said by nearly everyone how bad it sucks, yet people still use it. And the worst part, is that people are using the Physical Sweeper variant. Mixed set can actually leave a little dent, but don't worry, your team won't be swept by it (unless your name is Lunar Fang/Aquilae).

Rhyperior and Flygon are OU; the latter is okay with me. Rhyperior still sucks, I can't seem to find a way for it to sweep. Still, in my matches, I had to sacrifice at least one Pokemon per game in order to stop bulkier variants in the Sandstorm.
 
This isn't even a temporary OU list, so I wouldn't get so excited just yet. Only next month the OU list will be calculated so Empoleon and friends need to get even higher this month if they wanna have a spot in the next official list. I doubt Yanmega is going anywhere, people are using it less probably due to the accuracy drop in Hypnosis... although personally I think the bug doesn't need this move to prove itself effective.

Victreebel likes Sucker Punch / Leaf Blade / Swords Dance / Sleep Power. I ran it with Focus Sash and it worked very well. It's somewhat like a physical Darkrai in Ubers, lol.
 
I guess with pretty much every single competitive battler in a craze over Scizor's Bullet Punch and other priority moves, Reversal sets are not really viable in today's metagame.
 
i never once thought of reversal sets to be viable and i don't know anyone who does.
 
Reversal is a scary idea, but most of the users of it have Close Combat, so there's really no need to set up an entire Pokemon for one move that can last once.
 
Vance said:
Hahahaha, finally Yanmega got kicked down to the BL tier. It's about time it did. Anyway, I'm surprised Electivire is still OU. GOD, it's been said by nearly everyone how bad it sucks, yet people still use it. And the worst part, is that people are using the Physical Sweeper variant. Mixed set can actually leave a little dent, but don't worry, your team won't be swept by it (unless your name is Lunar Fang/Aquilae).

Rhyperior and Flygon are OU; the latter is okay with me. Rhyperior still sucks, I can't seem to find a way for it to sweep. Still, in my matches, I had to sacrifice at least one Pokemon per game in order to stop bulkier variants in the Sandstorm.
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GYara counter LOL *shot*

Azelf is still number 1 lead... odd, since Aero outspeeds it. I would actually think that Aero would see more usage... where was he on the usage list?

HOW is E-Vire still OU? They need to kick that thing out already. does nothing unless you use the old GyaraVire combo.

Scizor was obvious.
 
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It was explained exceptionally well on smogon why Electivire is still OU and has the potential to stay that way. Basically, in short, it has many chances to come in on the top most used pokemon, get a motor drive boost, and threaten to OHKO them. Expert Belt is probably ideal to use on him because he can still take an unstabbed hit while scoring a super effective hit on most (all?) of them. People just use him too early in the game, or just don't think he can come in a second time after losing the speed boost, which is underrating his power.
 
Level 40 now. Almost got that elusive Swords Dance.

I agree with Syaoran. I never understood all the Vire hate, it just has too much raw potential, with great stats (you'll be lying if you say otherwise), and such a diverse moveset, only seen on Normal types. Just because you seem to have a bit of trouble using it properly, doesn't mean they suck. Not particulary aiming this at anyone, mind you.

"Gotta know when to hold em'...know when to fold em..."
 
Oh on the topic of skymin usage (well not really) if you dont know ,shaymin-s is now uber ... for at least a month and will be re-tested after the lati twins are (according to smogon). It's interesting to say the least on how the Lati's (without soul dew) will perform and how they will influence the metagame.
 
I honestly think they'll be a bit overpowered for OU. 5 Weaknesses may help make up for the insane stats (even without Soul Dew).
The lack of a decent Fire Attack makes them easier to deal with, although even a +2 Dragon Pulse comes close to a 2HKO on the Standard Bronzong.

They're fast, bulky, offensively gifted and have one of the best Offensive Types in that game for a STAB. They'll be lucky to get in to OU even without Soul Dew.

Oh and good riddance to Shaymin-S. :D
 
I remember when we had the Lati@s tourney here, everyone used a CB tar, while not even using Lati@s in their teams. We pretty much agreed that they weren't overpowered without Soul Dew, but then again if you have to use bulky CBTar in every team it's pretty much overcentralizing. Maybe stall is an alternative solution, particularly Blissey with Toxic.. but that's pretty situational too. I wonder what new counters people can come up with.
 
latios has some serious potential. i really don't see much going on for latias, tho. they failed to give it reflect. CM and recover is the only 2 things that would make it a threat.

holy hell, i just noticed something -- Honchkrow got Heatwave!! can't wait to use SDKrow O_O
 
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Dark_Azelf said:
- Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza occupy the top 3 spots in uber.
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Not suprised, since weather is really starting to matter more when everything is starting to revolve around full out attacking and with scizor, metagross and forry, people want to soften the blows, others want to hurt them and some wish to stop it.

I'm amazed that no one uses trick in ubers. And with kyogre lurking around, why don't people use the Rotom forms? Scarf Rotom-W didn't do too bad for me in ubers.
 
Latios is very similar to azelf, trading attack for sp. def and better movepool. Latios is easier for blissey to wall and has 5 less speed, meanin gengar has a shot at defeating it.
 
I agree w/ many of the earlier posts. When I go on Shoddy, it seems that every match is turning into a game to see who can set up and sweep first, compared to Netbattle's sub, toxic, and stall games that lasted over 60 turns. 2 SD's on my Scizor and I practically automatically win. If the enemy's Gyara gets a couple DD's on, I've lost.

But I haven't seen many Reversal/Flail sets yet, probably because of priority moves.

I always lead w/ Yanmega, and I am surprised to hardly see any other ones out there. He's a good guy w/ a beastly SpecA.

Course, this might not be news to any of you. But whatever. The game has taken on a pokerlike atmosphere as of now.
 
mtr12 said:
I agree w/ many of the earlier posts. When I go on Shoddy, it seems that every match is turning into a game to see who can set up and sweep first, compared to Netbattle's sub, toxic, and stall games that lasted over 60 turns. 2 SD's on my Scizor and I practically automatically win. If the enemy's Gyara gets a couple DD's on, I've lost.

But I haven't seen many Reversal/Flail sets yet, probably because of priority moves.

I always lead w/ Yanmega, and I am surprised to hardly see any other ones out there. He's a good guy w/ a beastly SpecA.

Course, this might not be news to any of you. But whatever. [S-HIGHLIGHT]The game has taken on a pokerlike atmosphere as of now.[/S-HIGHLIGHT]
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I'm assuming you mean an "all or nothing/fast wins and losses" atmosphere? It's been like this since early DP.

At least the game's starting to settle, now. We've all gotten used to the new threats and overcentralising ones have been removed. If Lati@s is brought it, it will create major chaos.
 
Archer said:
I'm assuming you mean an "all or nothing/fast wins and losses" atmosphere? It's been like this since early DP.

At least the game's starting to settle, now. We've all gotten used to the new threats and overcentralising ones have been removed. If Lati@s is brought it, it will create major chaos.
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How has it been like this since early DP? There was a one or two month period of almost all stall because of obistall, and before that in early DP Garchomp was rarely seen with a Choice Band or Yache Berry and physical Electivire was considered a huge threat. It went from fairly balanced to stall to bulky offense to all-out offense.

Also Garchomp over centralizing was a myth at best that people used to justify its ban

also, Latias being brought in won't bring major chaos...how would you even know? It's actually a lot like Alakazam in the sense that status still screws it over and any strong physical attack will essentially do it in, only it trades extra bulk for less special attack and speed. I mean, I just don't see how you can make that conclusion when testing has only just begun and it is easily countered and still possible to revenge kill. o_O
 
Anti said:
How has it been like this since early DP? There was a one or two month period of almost all stall because of obistall, and before that in early DP Garchomp was rarely seen with a Choice Band or Yache Berry and physical Electivire was considered a huge threat. It went from fairly balanced to stall to bulky offense to all-out offense.

Also Garchomp over centralizing was a myth at best that people used to justify its ban
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From the start, DP has been a more Offensively based Metagame. Sure, at first, it was not nearly as bad. And yes, there was a period of Stall, however, in all it has remained a more offensive and fragile Metagame. "Sir, I has an evidence. Offense got Life Orb, two new Choice Items and Nasty Plot. Defence got... Roost?"

Three things that you don't discuss with friends: Money, Politics and the Garchomp Ban. :D

also, Latias being brought in won't bring major chaos...how would you even know? It's actually a lot like Alakazam in the sense that status still screws it over and any strong physical attack will essentially do it in, only it trades extra bulk for less special attack and speed. I mean, I just don't see how you can make that conclusion when testing has only just begun and it is easily countered and still possible to revenge kill. o_O
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I was refering to making a mess of the finally settling Metagame. Sure, it might be perfectly viable, although it will still raise Metagross/TTar usage, people will freak out and carry more Ice Attacks. ...If you know what I mean. :D[/inside joke]
 
Archer said:
From the start, DP has been a more Offensively based Metagame. Sure, at first, it was not nearly as bad. And yes, there was a period of Stall, however, in all it has remained a more offensive and fragile Metagame.

Three things that you don't discuss with friends: Money, Politics and the Garchomp Ban. :D


I was refering to making a mess of the finally settling Metagame. Sure, it might be perfectly viable, although it will still raise Metagross/TTar usage, people will freak out and carry more Ice Attacks. ...If you know what I mean. :D[/inside joke]
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wat

It was never offensive in early DP. Early DP was very balanced, probably leaning towards offense, but "offensive" is an overstatement. Offensive is when the goal is to sweep, not just carrying 2 or 3 sweepers. I think bulkygyara is the perfect analogy for the evolution of the DP metagame: It started being able to take hits and sweep okay and then started adding all these attack EVs and a Life Orb. BulkyGyara was considered one of the toughest sweepers around...if that's offensive then this is "wall are obsolete Blissey is BL at best" stuff ._.

Besides, you can't just ignore the very long period of stall that had a huge impact on stall as well as the time Wobbuffet was around, which basically kept stall intact as it was coming apart. Early DP was at most bulky offense (but it really wasn't - it was balanced) and after came heavy stall...it's only very recently that it's been heavy offense (basically when husk had his team, which wasn't that long ago). Saying that DP has been "fragile" from the outset when Blissey, Bronzong, and Cresselia were right up there the whole time...I don't get it to be frank.

I don't see how a slight increase in a couple of pokemons' usage is creating "major chaos" though >_> I don't even think that minor of a shift is even notable.
 
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