• Ever thought it'd be cool to have your art, writing, or challenge runs featured on PokéCommunity? Click here for info - we'd love to spotlight your work!
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.
    Register

Metagame Discussion Thread

Vance said:
I think it's time we address an overlooked threat in the new metagame; Flygon. Yeah, in D/P, all the Dragons (especially Garchomp) outclassed it, nearly entirely. But with Garchomp being Uber, the addition of Outrage, and the prevelance of stall, Flygon can fit quite well in the new metagame. Not only is it either resistant or immune to all forms of entry hazards, but it can't be paralysed, nor can it be hit by one of the game's most common attack, Earthquake. Ground and Dragon STAB hits everything bar Skarmory and Bronzong for neutral, and Fire Blast lets it destroy Skarmory, though it cannot touch Bronzong. U-Turn is very good on Flygon; letting it hurt switch ins and turnign 3HKO's into 2HKOs. It's also perfect for Flygon's build, as Flygon doesn't fear entry hazards one bit. For example, a 333 Def/444 HP Cresselia takes 42%-50% from a Choice Banded Outrage. It'll never 2HKO, unless SR/SS is taken into account. U-Turn does 33%-40% to the same Cresselia. In other words, that U-Turn turns the 3HKO into a 2HKO 100% of them time. If you're feeling lucky punk then you can just spam U-Turn and 3-4HKO Cresselia. Alternatively, a Max HP/Max Defense Suicune takes between 44%-51%. That'll never 2HKO without Leftovers or Stealth Rock, but U-Turn guarantees the 2HKO on the next switch in.

Flygon can also make a "subpar" Tyranitar switch in, taking, at maximum, 63% from Choice Banded Stone Edge. Still, a CB Crunch can 2HKO it, but only 2.56% of the time. You can use some more bulk, but then again, Flygon isn't a Tyranitar counter, just a last minute check (at best). Fire Punch 2HKOs Bronzong and Shed Shell Skarmory (very rare) if Stealth Rock is in play, meaning there is little need for Fire Blast (it won't do anything to Bronzong). Outrage 2HKOs Gyarados after Intimidate, and Salamence is obviously going to get murdered. As far as counters go, the whole U-Turn switch idea ruins them. Hippowdon is the best thing to handle Flygon, as it's immune to Sandstorm, and can live a U-Turn and 2 CB Outrages (it does 48% max, and 41% min). Hippowdon also can Ice Fang it, or just plain Roar the poor bug/dragon/thing out. Still, Draco Meteor for the Mixed/Specs set can 2HKO most Hippowdon. Cresselia can remain a slightly good counter, since it has Ice Beam to guarantee a solid KO on the dragon.

Anyway, I think Flygon needs more lovin ;(
Click to expand...

I completely agree, though Fire Blast is largely inferior to Fire Punch: Fire Punch 2HKOs Bronzong and with SR and Skarm with Shed Shell, there is a small chance of Skarm getting 2HKOed too (and does it really matter ?_?). Meanwhile Fire Blast 2HKOs Skarmory (only if it hits twice, might I add) while being laughed at by Bronzong as well as most of the metagame, which takes even less damage from it than Fire Punch. Given the accuracy being poor and how uncommon Skarmory is, I think we can agree that Fire Punch is generally much better =p

Flygon does have several advantages over Mence and Dragonite too, most notably U-Turn and its SR resistance. Fire Punch is has over Mence, and the (Toxi)spikes immunity is really cool. Given that Outrage 2HKOs every bulky water in the game given SR (and it only needs SR to beat Suicune), you could say that the power drop isn't that noticeable (but it IS noticeable). Still, Garchomp wasn't immune to Toxic Spikes, so in a sense (emphasizing that), Flygon is better against stall since it's REALLY hard to actually stall out of damage. Hippowdon and Skarmory are the only real trouble Pokémon for it.

Even though it's no CBchomp, I don't get how CBchomp is number one in usage but this is BL. lol

Just from watching Vance ladder with this I can tell you that it's not just theorymon - this set is REALLY good.
 
Flygon, hmm..? I should try it out sometime.

What would the best strategy for a sceptile be, if I got one?
SubSeedPetayaSunnyBeam?
 
Ninja Cateprie, this is a metagame discussion thread. Ask for movesets in the Individual Movesets thread.
 
I'll be honest, I thought before that Flygon sucked in every way. :| However, when I watched Anti the other night, it was both very surprising and ... kinda shocking. U-turn laughs at too much, and it's like people don't know how to properly handle it. Needless to say I'm impressed with Flygon's ability to perform in today's metagame.

Kinda makes me want to use it on the ol' revamped Haymakers. XD
 
Flygon was one of those off-the-beaten-path type of Pokemon that showed great usage in R/S/E, plummeted in D/P, and is seeing a comeback in Platinum with Garchomp banished to Ubers. Outrage, unique typing that gives it the easiest switching in possible (resists SR, immune to all Spikes, Quake, and having a few resistances, as well as decent bulk), and great coverage are all going with Flygon. U-Turn, as stated before, causes trouble against most of the metagame since CB U-Turn hurts things, period. Steels that resist U-Turn and Outrage eat a nice Fire Punch or Fire Blast. Also, unlike Salamence and Dragonite, Flygon gets STAB on Earthquake, the most common move in today's metagame. However, Flygon kills to have better stats. If it did, then we'd be looking at a top OU Pokemon easily. I guess we can't choose what we want these days...

Flygon's an awesome Pokemon, both game-wise and artistic wise, although slightly weird. It appears as a bug of some sort, but never does it have the bug type. Instead, it's made a dragon! That's just strange to me. But, back to Flygon...if you need a simple dragon to use, Flygon's your choice. Roost, easy entry, and good coverage make it great to use, and it can be either a pain or a killer to your opponent.
 
Hum...Flygon's one of those Pokemon that doesn't lose anything from roost, just gains the ability to be hit by Ground moves... It's got everything going for it except stats, but with a base Attack of 100, it's still pretty scary. Although, too much stronger and it'll uberise itself like Garchomp. :\
 
btw, Flygon doesn't ever gain the ability to get hit by ground moves because it is not a typing, it is an ability. mold breaker is what would cause this to occur.

ooh i just noticed flygon got tpunch. not bad, not bad at all.
 
Yeah, Roost only negates a flying sub-type, never does it negate Levitate. It shows why every Pokemon now has a type that goes with Flying.
 
Maybeb the reason I've had such trouble [LIE] is because I wasn't utilizing Flygon properly. Hmmm....

If it's ok to ask here, Smarties, what would the ideal nature for said CBGon be?
 
For CBGon, I'd have to say something like Adamant or Jolly. Adamant for pure power, or Jolly for a little more speed. You hit 299 and 328, respectively. For the attack, I think you hit 494 and 449, respectively (factoring in CB here.)

You could use Lax for the extreme awesome value though.
 
Is Naive any good? Forgive me if I'm asking this in the wrong section, but I feel it has relevance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: .
There is no point in Naive since Flygon really shouldn't be carrying any special attacks (Fire Punch is a good enough fire move - Fire Blast is generally inferior).

I don't even think Jolly should be an option. When something has 100 base attack (which may I remind you is less than Mesprit's), it needs all of the attack it can get. Outrage misses almost all of the KOs it needs with Jolly, and the speed boost doesn't really help against anything notable. Adamant is superior 99% of the time imo.

I haven't used Jolly if I'm being honest, but from using Adamant I can tell you that Flygon barely has enough power to get its kills (much like MixApe or MixMence). Jolly is so vastly inferior imo, unless there's something it should outspeed that is more important than 2HKOing every bulky water in the game given SR and doing more damage is general to physical tanks and walls.

It's a load of fun though <3 It's better than a lot of top pokemon like Electivire, Porygon-Z, and Sucknoir though.
 
Sounds almost as nice as Leafeon getting Swords Dance from level up. Cause getting to level 71 is easy enough as it is.

I'd like to speak of the UU metagame, if I may? Victrebell is looking mighty good now that it gets Leaf Blade.
 
sims796 said:
Sounds almost as nice as Leafeon getting Swords Dance from level up. Cause getting to level 71 is easy enough as it is.

I'd like to speak of the UU metagame, if I may? Victrebell is looking mighty good now that it gets Leaf Blade.
Click to expand...

Whilst Victreebel can be somewhat good with its new Platinum moves as a physical sweeper, it can only work in Sun because of Bel's crap speed. Also, the set is horrendously walled by Steelix.

Here is the only physical set Victreebel can use IMO:

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly Nature(only in Sun)
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP

Swords Dance
Leaf Blade
Body Slam/ Return
Sucker Punch

It doesn't have any other good phyiscal attacks.
 
Wait, what?

An SD Leaf Blade coming from Victre hurts even Steelix. Hell, especially Steelix, 2/3HKO'ing it. It also has Sleep Powder to stop any potential "counters", and Stun Spore can make up for his "speed". It also gets Knock Off, if it matters.

Speaking of Speed, it's 70. Not too bad for a[n?] UU poke.

I can also see Wrap working into its moveset. A fun little surprise.
 
Bel's speed isn't too bad, but its poor defenses and average speed aren't gonna help much against things like Tops, CB Scyther, etc. What I was trying to say is that although Victreebel can pull off some decent physical sweeping now, it still functions better as a statuser/ special sweeper.
 
Sc4rfCh0mp said:
Bel's speed isn't too bad, but its poor defenses and average speed aren't gonna help much against things like Tops, CB Scyther, etc. What I was trying to say is that although Victreebel can pull off some decent physical sweeping now, it still functions better as a statuser/ special sweeper.
Click to expand...

+2 LO Sucker Punch OHKO's Scyther and does ~89% to kabutops.

Did you listen to sims ? Is speed really an issue with Stun Spore, Sleep Powder and Sucker Punch in its arsenal ? Heck one can even abuse the sun.

SD/Sleep Powder or stun spore/Leaf Blade/Sucker Punch is VERY good set (and it actually has higher base attack that sp.att, although minimal).

I see no logical reason as to why it "functions better as a statuser/ special sweeper"
 
Leafeon at lvl 41 now. Just 38 more to go, an it would have learned Swords Dance. God, I love that they added this move :\

I must ask, has Curselix been living up to teh hype?

Excuse my fanatics, but a poke like Vileplume makes the ideal statuser. He has the defence to stand there & throw Stun Spore & Sleep Powder. Victreebel can take his spot as a great Physical threat.
 
Last edited:
Well for those of you who dont know, the usage statistics are out for November

- Rhyperior, Flygon and Empoleon are now OU.
- Scizor is #1 *shock* with Heatran and Salamence 2nd and 3rd respectively.
- Gallade and Yanmega are out of OU lol
- Vire is still OU and Gengar has gone down to 10th in usage o.o.
- Hitmontop is used more than charizard (and #1 used poke in uu <3, with clefable and claydol 2nd and 3rd respectively)
- Shaymin-S is 17th in usage lol, yet votes for uber still outnumber those for ou =/
- Azelf is still #1 lead in ou.
- Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza occupy the top 3 spots in uber.


Some food for though =] (If you wanna know more, its the stickied thread in stark mountain on smogon)
 
i'd like to note that a lot of players have a shame level before resorting to Skymin, hence it's usage rank. thing is UBERTASTIC!

and hmm, suckerpunch might be pretty good on Victreebel. i've been using it defensively w/ Reflect as a decent primeape counter, nearly OHKOing w/ Leaf Storm. a +2 suckerpunch, adamant to 0hp/0def Primeape does about 65%. not bad. nice for a suprising finisher.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top