New Generations (III, IV,and V) vs. I and II. Which is better? Why?

[dblanchette93]

In my opinion, the classic Pokemon will ALWAYS be the best. The original 151 is where it's at, with my favorite being caught between Cubone and Lapras. Then Generation II, the Dogs? Not a huge fan, but Suicune is really cool and a great Pokemon to have. Lugia is just okay, I prefer Ho-Oh, who, by the way, was going to be in the original 151, but was bumped up. (Watch Pokemon anime: Indigo Plateau: Episode 1) So he is my favorite Generation II. The starters were also awesome, Totodile definitely for the win! Then for the next generations, the design changes are ridiculous, the starters aren't good at all, (Minus Mudkip, everyone loves Mudkipz, haha.) the Legendaries other than Rayquaza and Groudon just look like Nintendo striving to make new designs, and over-designing to the MAX. Also, the naming system for Generations III-V aren't even good in the least. Squirtle? FTW! Piplup? WTF? The names are just terrible. Finally, we get to one of the things I hate most about Generation V... GENOSECT. Like, what the hell? Nintendo is having a conference, "Okay, team, just one more to fill up the Pokedex!" an employee raises his/her hand, "Yes?"
He/She stands up, exclaiming loudly, "OKAY, SO YOU TAKE A FREAKING TALL, BIPEDAL BUG POKEMON, GIVE IT A PRETTY SMILE, AND MAKE IT PURPLE! OH, WAIT, THIS CAN'T BE COMPLETE WITHOUT A... CANNON... ON... IT'S BACK?"
Everyone stares, until finally the head of the design board exclaims, "GENIUS!" -.- Anyway, give me some opinions and good feedback, I would love to know if you guys feel the way I do about the atrocity Pokemon has become...

 

[WriteThemWrong]

i love gen 5. they created 156 new pokemon, that's a lot of new pokemon. i haven't used them all but i'm pretty sure thats now it went down at nintendo.

i'll always love gen 1 because it was how i first got hooked, like a lot of people. but gen 5 is awesome and might be my new favorite

 

[Niprop]

If you were ask me, I'd say that... Generation III is not new anymore. The time gap between Ruby and Sapphire and Pokémon Crystal version is a mere two years apart, and the games are nearing ten years old! Their graphics (not that I care) are starting to show the same age that Red and Blue version did when they first came out, and they also were the last games to be on the Gameboy. At this point, they're closer to the median then either old or new.

In other words:


Green/Red
Blue
-
Yellow
-
-
-
Gold/Silver
-
-
Crystal
-
Ruby/Sapphire
-
-
FireRed/LeafGreen
Emerald
-
-
Diamond/Pearl
-
Platinum
-
HeartGold/SoulSilver
-
Black/White


From oldest to newest, in my opinion.

As for my own personal opinion, I admit, that for the first time in a long one, I'm at a tear between my favorite generation. Even if I don't agree with some of Generation V's designs the storyline it gave was more fleshed out then Gold and Silver's was, and the game-play was extremely refreshing, with a feel that I only got when I played Blue and Gold version...

 

[Oryx]

I think Gen V blows them all out of the water. I know it's the person's opinion, but I always thought it was silly to make an overly vague statement about design and Pokemon, claim the first 151 were the best, and then expect for your opinion to be respected as valid. :/

Also, I would put I-III together, and IV and V together, it matches more. Gameboy (Color or Advance) vs. DS.

 

[dblanchette93]

If you were ask me, I'd say that... Generation III is not new anymore. The time gap between Ruby and Sapphire and Pokémon Crystal version is a mere two years apart, and the games are nearing ten years old! Their graphics (not that I care) are starting to show the same age that Red and Blue version did when they first came out, and they also were the last games to be on the Gameboy. At this point, they're closer to the median then either old or new.

In other words:


Green/Red-Blue
-
Yellow
-
-
-
Gold/Silver
-
-
Crystal
-
Ruby/Sapphire
-
-
FireRed/LeafGreen
Emerald
-
-
Diamond/Pearl
-
Platinum
-
HeartGold/SoulSilver
-
Black/White


From oldest to newest, in my opinion.

As for my own personal opinion, I admit, that for the first time in a long one, I'm at a tear between my favorite generation. Even if I don't agree with some of Generation V's designs the storyline it gave was more fleshed out then Gold and Silver's was, and the game-play was extremely refreshing, with a feel that I only got when I played Blue and Gold version...

True, very true. Put part of the "new" Generation, nonetheless. I pulled this off of Bulbapedia: "The third generation of Pokémon games, also sometimes known as the advance or advanced generation, is the third set of Pokémon games released, and is described by some to be a "resetting" of the series." What that basically means is an entire new look for Pokemon. The design change is steep, and the graphics sky-rocket past the first two generations. Although, you ARE entirely correct to say that the Generations IV and V are much "newer", but it doesn't mean that a lot of Pokemon fans look at Generation III don't see it as a change to how Pokemon looked. Of course, it is all opinion-oriented, so what I say means nothing on factual lines, but just wanted to throw some stuff in.

 

[Luck]

Pokemon Red was awful in my opinion. You know your game is bad when you can get through the game with a Hypno just because of its typing.
Pokemon Gold was underwhelming. Instead of giving one good region, they give you two half assed regions with a horrible level curve.
Hoenn was actually pretty cool, even with all of the water.
Pokemon Platinum was my favorite of the series. It made Cyrus the best leader because it gave him character, he wasn't just "bad leader guy of bad team".
No opinion on Black and white, but I'm sure it's not so horrible that I'd prefer Pokemon Red.

 

[dblanchette93]

I think Gen V blows them all out of the water. I know it's the person's opinion, but I always thought it was silly to make an overly vague statement about design and Pokemon, claim the first 151 were the best, and then expect for your opinion to be respected as valid. :/

Also, I would put I-III together, and IV and V together, it matches more. Gameboy (Color or Advance) vs. DS.

Okay, okay. So let's just say we aren't going by newer, but rather by what most refer to Generation III as... Now, I do not wish for my opinion to be respected, nor valid, and I'm not some crazed dude trying to bash on Generation V, (Although, I kind of am, in a sense. Sorry...) and trying to defend it because it is "classic". No, I defend the Generation I because the design is simplistic, yet... Beautiful, imaginative. While Generation V is indeed imaginative, I believe they brought imagination a bit too far. Personal opinion. I really enjoy FireRed and LeafGreen, they bring back good memories, while introducing a few new features. Charizard will always be the coolest Pokemon, in my opinion. Not my favorite Pokemon, but definitely the coolest. He is just so original, with a huge personality on the anime. So I in no way am trying to be a crazed fan boy, just stating a personal opinion.

 

[Kirbychu]

dblanchette93, I hope you're aware that all hell is about to break loose. xD

Gameplay wise, the newer games are obviously better. But that's no fun to debate about, now is it? I'm going to be covering Pokemon designs in this tl;dr.

Personally, I think most of the 4th and 5th generation Pokemon are awful. That's just me though. Game Freak has a totally different style than before, and I'm not liking it. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone too. I absolutely love this picture, I think it's an excellent example of what I'm trying to say.

Spoiler:

Older Pokemon strongly resembled real animals, were simple, and generally payed more attention to anatomy than newer gens. This was a simpler time where people were fine with simple things. Game Freak was even stuck with simple technology when they were designing Pokemon. You either like them or you don't.

Newer Pokemon are generally more creative, since they'll take a certain aspect about something a turn it into something completely new. Just look at those hideous yellow and orange things that wear their dead skin as pants. They also tend to have more complicated designs, and they really don't pay as much attention to anatomy anymore (Just look at Victini and Zoroark's bodies). I think it's the fact that newer Pokemon are more detailed that makes them appear less natural. Again, you either like them or you don't. However, If you don't, things are just going to get worse for you. Sorry...

Why do so many older fans hate the new Pokemon? I think it's mainly a growing generational gap regarding the style of Pokemon. You can't deny that Pokemon designs have changed over the generations. Personally, I prefer the older Pokemon (Johto and Hoenn Pokemon are my favorites.), but there are still quite a few new ones that I like. The beautiful thing about Pokemon is that there's so many that you're bound to find a couple you like. Unova still has some Pokemon like Galvantula and Sawsbuck that have that same old charm as the Pokemon from earlier times. What's that? You hate every single new Pokemon? If you really despise them so much, you can always bring in some of your old favorites! Let's be thankful that Game Freak even gives us that option!

 

[dblanchette93]

Well spoken, Kirbychu. Well spoken indeed. Covered just about everything I was getting at, and yes, you are absolutely correct about the new ones having likable Pokemon. Example: Lucario, he's so cool. I'm not saying that everything about the new one is terrible, I just don't like the new style, as you had said, and most true Pokemon fans that grew up playing the first few Generations will agree. It is more about when you started, in most aspects. But anyway, you basically covered everything there, so let's see some reactions to that, and HOPEFULLY somebody can give a good comeback, because I honestly wish I could find reason to play the new ones... Until then, I will be catchin' 'em all old school on Pokemon Yellow (Favorite Pokemon version of all time, aside from Emerald. Oh, and don't bring up anything about that, like I said, this isn't to bash on any particular group, just want some honest opinions, and I have gotten just what I wanted thus far, because I heart Emerald, haha.)

 

[Aquacorde]

First things first. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT, lump the generations together like that. It does not work. Gen I and Gen II were relatively similar, but the differences between Gens III, IV, and V are huge. And we're going to talk about them individually anyway, so-o...

Second thing- I can't believe you were originally just mindlessly bashing everything past Johto. It makes no sense to me. I have a friend like that- she considers nothing but the original 151 to be Pokemon.
Quite the turnaround you gave us in your next few posts, though. Interesting. What does that say about influences, I wonder?
Anyway, moving on.

Other things.
I mainly agree with Kirbychu. Older Pokemon resebled real animals, and closer attention was paid to things like anatomy. But what happens when you run out of animals that are dissimilar enough to each other to work with? You gotta start pulling more from the fantastical, the unexplored, the "creative" (as most people seem to think of it). And what happens when you have so many different kinds they're getting hard to keep track of, let alone try to feature them all in a single game? And you still are coming up with more? Then you try something different- come up with a whole new set of Pokemon, region-lock them and call "divergent evolution".

It's all quite logical, when you think about it. There are those that will prefer Gen I and II's simplicity, Gen III's "middle stage" feel, Gen IV's roundness and bath toy-esque appearance, or Gen V's new and unique flavor. But to discredit certain generations entirely is rather insulting, to both the generations and the people who do like them. I myself admit a hatred toward the general makeup of Gen IV, but I do credit it with such wonderful Pokemon as Lucario, Roserade, Weavile, and Lumineon. There's always good in things, always at least some aspect to complement.

I've spoken of the Pokemon, now for the regions. The rather industrial Kanto is nostalgic, yes- but after a long time seeing it, it gets tiresome. Johto was bountiful and a bit more rural than Kanto, with many places to explore, but I must admit to being bored of it rather easily. Hoenn is my favorite, vibrant and fun, with colorful and interesting Pokemon and a distinctly natural feel to the region. Sure, it's got the ugliest trees in the PokeVerse, but still. Sinnoh felt cold and empty; perhaps an attempt at giving it an "ancient" feel gone wrong? And Unova is simply beautiful, in addition to being rather alien and complex.
All of these places have good qualities and bad.

My personal favorite will always be Hoenn, both in terms of the region and the Pokemon. This isn't to say I will put down the older generations for being "too boring"- I quite enjoy many of the Pokemon and know that they were vital to the development of the future generations. I will not discredit Gen IV and V, either- Platinum gave me a very interesting playthrough and Gen V is my second favorite. I think the deciding factor between Unova and Hoenn is that Hoenn carries my nostalgia- odd for a game considered "new", isn't it? ;) In all reality, Gen III is quite the ancient one.

tl;dr: People say, "These Pokemon, they are too flashy, how can they be Pokemon?" or "These new species, they are ripping off the old species, how unoriginal."
A good response I have come across is this:

EDIT: Oh, and referencing "true Pokemon fans"? And saying that only those who grew up playing Pokemon are "true" fans? What about those who weren't even alive at that point, but know the names of all 649 Pokemon offhand, and can tell you specific information on every single one? Do you not consider them "true" fans?

 

[Oryx]

Older Pokemon strongly resembled real animals, were simple, and generally payed more attention to anatomy than newer gens. This was a simpler time where people were fine with simple things. Game Freak was even stuck with simple technology when they were designing Pokemon. You either like them or you don't.

One of my friends claimed that there were more Pokemon that were non-normal type and looked like animals in the first generation rather than the fifth, so I counted. The amount was within 10 of each other, ~50 for each. But you know what's the most frustrating about that complaint? People also tend to make the opposite complaint, saying that they just take an animal, barely change it, stick a Pokemon name on it, and call it a Pokemon now. Poor GF can't win :/

Newer Pokemon are generally more creative, since they'll take a certain aspect about something a turn it into something completely new. Just look at those hideous yellow and orange things that wear their dead skin as pants. They also tend to have more complicated designs, and they really don't pay as much attention to anatomy anymore (Just look at Victini and Zoroark's bodies). I think it's the fact that newer Pokemon are more detailed that makes them appear less natural. Again, you either like them or you don't. However, If you don't, things are just going to get worse for you. Sorry...

First of all, I agree that Scraggy and Scrafty are hideous, lol. Never a Pokemon I'd put in my party, and I can't reconcile them being Dark/Fighting with me thinking they're Ground all the time because of their looks.

I can sort of see where you're coming from with Zoroark's strange anatomy (although it's perfectly correct for a werewolf sort of Pokemon, but I have no idea if that's what he was based on), but I really don't see the Victini one. It's...more round? Its head is large? Can you expand on the problem with Victini? That's actually one of my favorite designs in Gen V.

 

[dblanchette93]

I am man enough to admit these are ALL good points. Influence can have deep impacts on people, and the more people tell me, the further I want to delve into the new era and attempt to enjoy it. Perhaps the comic strip is semi-accurate, because I still love Squirtle at 17 years old, I look at it and see simplicity, but also cuteness, originality, and as Kirbychu said: Anatomy. Squirtle is quite clearly a turtle. I see the other one, and forgive me for not knowing all the Black and White names yet, and I see stuff thrown together... I see a clown otter with balls around it's neck, tiny arms, a fat body with... Sea shell in the middle, and tiny webbed feet that would render it physically useless if Pokemon were real, by physically I mean that the hands, feet, and body would make it hard to punch and kick. That's what I see, a mixture of random stuff, tossed together to look like SOMETHING... You see, I put this up knowing that true fans would defend both sides, so I can maybe get a push to look into the new, but still hold the past dear.

Oh, and that last post tells you what I mean by true fan, a true fan means you're a true fan! Not that you have been alive for it. (Though the craze back then when Pokemon started was phenomenal, even in the trading card business, which is basically nothing now, which may or may not tell you something...)

 

[Oryx]

I am man enough to admit these are ALL good points. Influence can have deep impacts on people, and the more people tell me, the further I want to delve into the new era and attempt to enjoy it. Perhaps the comic strip is semi-accurate, because I still love Squirtle at 17 years old, I look at it and see simplicity, but also cuteness, originality, and as Kirbychu said: Anatomy. Squirtle is quite clearly a turtle. I see the other one, and forgive me for not knowing all the Black and White names yet, and I see stuff thrown together... I see a clown otter with balls around it's neck, tiny arms, a fat body with... Sea shell in the middle, and tiny webbed feet that would render it physically useless if Pokemon were real, by physically I mean that the hands, feet, and body would make it hard to punch and kick. That's what I see, a mixture of random stuff, tossed together to look like SOMETHING... You see, I put this up knowing that true fans would defend both sides, so I can maybe get a push to look into the new, but still hold the past dear.

Try Lillipup and Purrloin? Even fans of the Gen V Pokemon complain about Oshowatt's design, it's kind of a hot topic. There are plenty of clearly animal-based Pokemon in the new generation...One of my favorite simplistic designs is Blitzle. Somehow it manages to look cute (in my opinion anyway) while retaining its zebra qualities, and with the lightning bolt mane to denote that it's an Electric type. The Sandile evolution might be to your liking as well, going from a crocodile that's cute into a more Pokemon-ized, strong looking crocodile. There are hermit crabs, turtles (Tirtouga looks more like a turtle than Squirtle) chinchillas, ducks, swans, and I'm not even halfway through the list of new Pokemon.

 

[WriteThemWrong]

Pokemon Red was awful in my opinion. You know your game is bad when you can get through the game with a Hypno just because of its typing.

most of the early games had that problem, it didn't really get fixed till the 3rd gen. The 2nd introduced dark and steel but they were sparse and were streamlined till ruby and sapphire.

we all know gameplay hasn't change much, it's the same awesome addicting thing again.

design, you could probably make a case for. 3rd seems to been influenced by 2nd gen but still...

i don't think pokemon truly got advanced till d/p/pt. they upgrade to DS hardware, better graphics, wifi capability. So i think it would be Gen 1,2, and 3 vs 4 and 5

 

[Hikamaru]

I think Generation IV made it easier to collect certain Pokemon. Generation V's graphics are cool. The first Gen I played was Generation III. Generation IV and V introduced some cool Pokemon. Oshawott is my fave Generation V Pokemon already!

 

[Aquacorde]

Squirtle was more of a tortoise in anatomy, actually, which is why Tirtouga looks more the turtle.

Actually, when you look back on it, there are more Pokemon with designs from nature than you see at first. And then when you get into the myths and cultural backgrounds of many... There are so many sources of inspiration, coming from all over the world.

Oh, and I really think the categories should be Gens I and II together, and III, IV, and V separate. Not only because of the technology levels, but also in terms of design and influences. The later generations are showing more variance in... everything.

EDIT: Oh, and Mr. OP... What need has an otter for punching and kicking?

 

[dblanchette93]

Squirtle was more of a tortoise in anatomy, actually, which is why Tirtouga looks more the turtle.

Actually, when you look back on it, there are more Pokemon with designs from nature than you see at first. And then when you get into the myths and cultural backgrounds of many... There are so many sources of inspiration, coming from all over the world.

Oh, and I really think the categories should be Gens I and II together, and III, IV, and V separate. Not only because of the technology levels, but also in terms of design and influences. The later generations are showing more variance in... everything.

EDIT: Oh, and Mr. OP... What need has an otter for punching and kicking?

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with you on that one there. The latest three have all been extremely unique and different in their own ways.

Twilight Sky: If you are referring to me, I must repeat again, I am not bashing, simply saying which ones I like and then collecting information, for self-gain, really. I have so far been inspired to download No$GBA emulator and I am going to try out Platinum. I doubt Black or White have a successful ROM out yet, and I really don't want a virus, so I won't try. I must say, the challenge curve in Platinum is incredible, a whole new experience, though I don't dig the Pokemon, I DO dig the gameplay... Not a fan of the graphics in the least, haha. The DS isn't smooth enough for these graphics, in my opinion, but of course, Black and White probably worked that part out and made it prettier, but it's almost TOO flashy for me to even want to keep playing... But I will, because I want to see just how good the storyline is. Oh, and before you get all mad at the fact that I haven't played through the two latest generations, I have done my research on each, and wouldn't mindlessly just say that the latest generations are completely idiotic.

Well, I didn't even know that was an otter... So that may explain why I wouldn't know. I was just pointing out what I thought it looked like.

And by the way, tortoises are land animals that don't go near water. They are reptilians, while turtles are water based, making their homes on or near water, they are amphibious. By anatomy, and also by description, Squirtle is definitely the more defined turtle type.

 

[Zeffy]

Each generation contributed something to make Pokemon great. There is no argument in that. I think that the argument of which generation is better is just..pointless. Whenever I play older generation games, I always miss something from the newer generations and vice versa. I'm never satisfied with playing just one or two generations, I need to play them all.

The original Pokemon? Yes, they were good. But there is always change. I like change, and change is inevitable.

Now, for those Pokemon designs. Let's see you make 649 designs and not give up halfway. Heck, even those hackers in the ROM hacking section can't finish 100. What about 649? At least they didn't give up. They gave us something. Now what did you do? Ramble about it being very stupid, very unnatural, very not beautiful. Well, all I can say is shame on you sir, shame on you.

 

[dblanchette93]

Is there a reason this is now a "Hate on Dan Session" all of a sudden...? Geez, I was just wondering what people thought, and I have several times mentioned that it is pretty good so far. But screw it, game is terrible. Yeah. -.- Not really, I am kind of enjoying it. Shame on you for wrongly placing shame upon me. Oh, and I am in the process of writing two books and working on an Indie game that could very easily change the App Store forever. I am lead story and character designer and we are chugging along, so I don't just stupidly open my mouth and ramble, I may not have made 649, but 16 years is quite a long time... That isn't such a grand number when you are looking at 5,840 days, if we are talking in terms of design. So before you bash me, why don't YOU think about who you're bashing. I could bash right back, but civility is key, and it is what I follow.

 

[Kirbychu]

One of my friends claimed that there were more Pokemon that were non-normal type and looked like animals in the first generation rather than the fifth, so I counted. The amount was within 10 of each other, ~50 for each. But you know what's the most frustrating about that complaint? People also tend to make the opposite complaint, saying that they just take an animal, barely change it, stick a Pokemon name on it, and call it a Pokemon now. Poor GF can't win :/

What I meant was that Pokemon like Pidgey, Krabby, and Persian all resemble their real-life counterparts more than Starly, Dwebble, and Purugly. I like my Pokemon to be animal-like, but I know that others don't.

One First of all, I agree that Scraggy and Scrafty are hideous, lol. Never a Pokemon I'd put in my party, and I can't reconcile them being Dark/Fighting with me thinking they're Ground all the time because of their looks.

I can sort of see where you're coming from with Zoroark's strange anatomy (although it's perfectly correct for a werewolf sort of Pokemon, but I have no idea if that's what he was based on), but I really don't see the Victini one. It's...more round? Its head is large? Can you expand on the problem with Victini? That's actually one of my favorite designs in Gen V.

Zoroaork is based off a kitsune, and it's actually one of the better looking new Pokemon in my opinion.

There's not a single bone in it's body and the outrageous proportions between it's head and body are ridiculous, even for Pokemon.Also, what's going on with it's thighs? They're balls, for Petilil's sake! Plus, this thing just creeps me out.

There's no need for anyone to reply to this post with Wigglytuff. I know that there's a few older Pokemon with funky proportions, but they're generally a lot more reasonable than newer Pokemon.

Try Lillipup and Purrloin? Even fans of the Gen V Pokemon complain about Oshowatt's design, it's kind of a hot topic. There are plenty of clearly animal-based Pokemon in the new generation... One of my favorite simplistic designs is Blitzle. Somehow it manages to look cute (in my opinion anyway) while retaining its zebra qualities, and with the lightning bolt mane to denote that it's an Electric type. The Sandile evolution might be to your liking as well, going from a crocodile that's cute into a more Pokemon-ized, strong looking crocodile. There are hermit crabs, turtles (Tirtouga looks more like a turtle than Squirtle) chinchillas, ducks, swans, and I'm not even halfway through the list of new Pokemon.

Lillipup and Herdier were good, but the final evolution kills the whole family. I agree that Purrloin and Liepard strongly resemble animals. The Blitzle family is among my favorites of this gen; they're very animal-like as well. I like Sandile, but he gets too cartoony as he evolves.

However, Minccino really doesn't look like a chinchilla. Dwebble, CubeCrab, Swanna, and the ugly duckling really don't have a strong resemblance with their real-life counterparts either. The thing about the older Pokemon is that you can easily tell what most of them are based off of. They also tend to share more features with their real-life counter-parts than newer Pokemon. Look at Persians paws, Pidgey's eyebrows, etc. Krabby and Persian are practically just a crab and mountain lion thrown into a fictional world. The new Pokemon tend to lack bone structure and have more intricate designs, which makes them less animal-like. Some people like this, some don't.