6th Gen OR/AS Chit Chat + CoroCoro Discussion

[RoreyG]

My thoughts remain the same on the matter.

In looking at the pattern of facts, I can make a very plausible argument that there would NOT be a Hoenn remake in the near future. There isn't any need for one.

They made the Gen 1 remakes because:

(1) In addition to Pokemon Emerald, it was the only way you could complete the national Pokedex in Gen 3 because Ruby and Sapphire had a considerable lack of Kanto and Johto Pokemon and you could not trade between the GBA and GB/GBC.

(2) Third Gen came out a time where the Poke-boom of the late 90's and early 2000's had ended and there was an immediate backlash against the franchise (as you would usually get with popular fads that have recently faded). Nintendo and Gamefreak were looking to re- kindle interest in the franchise by going back to its roots.


Similarly, they made the Gen 2 remakes because:

(1) The Nintendo DSi and all other DS systems that followed were not compatible with the GBA games and Gamefreak needed to find a way to help fans complete the Natonal Dex.

(2) They had already remade the Gen 1 games and it would only make sense they remake its sequels, which constitute Gen 2 games.


As for remakes of the Hoenn games:

(1) The 9 main Pokemon games that are compatible with the Nintendo DS (along with Pokemon X and Y) make it possible for players to complete the National Dex, not to mention the fact that Pokemon Bank allows players to transfer Pokemon from their 5th Gen games to the 3DS games. This renders the need for R/S/E remakes void.

(2) A lot of people on here tend to remember Hoenn fondly because R/S/E was your first Pokemon game. I get that. However, it is nowhere near as nostalgic as the first 2 Generations in the minds of the general public so that it would not be logical to even try and do Gen 3 remakes. On the point of doing it to garner public interest, Pokemon X and Y seem to successfully be doing this on their own.

Added to all of this the fact that the GBA games, from a technical standpoint, still hold up as opposed to the games for GB and GBC.

There isn't any pressing reason to do Hoenn remakes and I don't see why they would.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

There's a lot GF can add to Hoenn, there's all those tiny islands in the map which we can't access and that rather large island to the south-east of Mauville city.

@RoreyG it's possible to complete the National Dex in Gen III and since one could transfer into Gen IV so was that Generation's national dex able to be completed without the need for Gen II remakes, so the national dex excuse falls short. Now for Gen II being sequels...well Gen III takes place at the same time as Gen I (according to some people...still not sure), so it should be remade... also the Gen II sequels weren't as major as B2W2 in comparison to Gen I's games so the need for them wasn't as big...the reason it was remade was for Nostalgia and to make GF some money (this last one applies to Gen III remakes too).

 

[mangamusicfan]

Maby the remake will still come.
I personaly think It's to early to remake it.
I think the next handheld generation will get A remake of it (at least I hope so!)

 

[RandomDSdevel]

well they probably wont use all the changes from emerald but im fairly curtain they will include, the battle frontier and the bigger safari zone, and maybe they will alternate with the champions making it wallace after u finish it the first time?

That might work for the fact that Steven is the Champion in Ruby and Sapphire and that Wally is Champion in Emerald, but weren't there a couple of Gym Leaders that were swapped out in Emerald as well?

 

[bobandbill]

That might work for the fact that Steven is the Champion in Ruby and Sapphire and that Wally is Champion in Emerald, but weren't there a couple of Gym Leaders that were swapped out in Emerald as well?

I don't think so, at least going off memory. Thought the only chance was Wallace/Steven, in the gym and e4 lineup.

 

[KostK2Boss]

My counter-arguments in purple.

As for remakes of the Hoenn games:

(1) The 9 main Pokemon games that are compatible with the Nintendo DS (along with Pokemon X and Y) make it possible for players to complete the National Dex, not to mention the fact that Pokemon Bank allows players to transfer Pokemon from their 5th Gen games to the 3DS games. This renders the need for R/S/E remakes void.

By that logic, there doesn't have to be a Pokemon Z (or whatever they end up calling it), because all Kalos Pokemon are already available in Pokemon X and Pokemon Y. Also, the Game Cube games were technically not necessary, because most of all Gen 1 and Gen 2 Pokemon were available in FR/LG anyway. The availability of Gen 2 Pokemon was not what made HG/SS so popular. It was the fact that after nearly 10 years players could re-experience traveling through the Johto region and the plethora of new features and game mechanics made the games much more than just "G/S/C with better graphics" as some people had criticized about FR/LG. On top of that, R/S/E had unique features such as Secret Bases, Record Mixing and Contests that set them apart from the rest of the Pokemon games, so Gen 3 wild Pokemon would not be the only reason to remake them, but rather implementing said features to the Wi-fi-happy Pokemon gaming world of today would.

(2) A lot of people on here tend to remember Hoenn fondly because R/S/E was your first Pokemon game. I get that. However, it is nowhere near as nostalgic as the first 2 Generations in the minds of the general public so that it would not be logical to even try and do Gen 3 remakes. On the point of doing it to garner public interest, Pokemon X and Y seem to successfully be doing this on their own.

Even if we were to quantify something as abstract as "nostalgia" (and no, it wouldn't be as simple as comparing game sales) and even if it somehow turned out that R/B/Y and G/S/C are "more nostalgic" than R/S/E, that wouldn't mean that they should not be remade. A lot of the people who didn't buy R/S/E were the ones who quit Pokemon after the 2000's Pokemania had ended. Some of them have since gotten back into Pokemon through the newer games and they probably wouldn't mind playing through the region that they skipped. In addition, even if somehow none of the Pokemon fans liked R/S/E, GameFreak is still very fond of these games. In fact, I recall Masuda himself saying that he is very proud of R/S as they were the first Pokemon games he was in a leading position of making and he did not oppose the idea of remaking them sometime in the future.

 

[RoreyG]

My counter-arguments in purple.

Still doesn't tell me what practical reasons Game Freak would have for doing Hoenn Remakes.

In my original post, I've set out the reasons for why FR/LG and HG/SS were needed. Not only just to complete each respective National Dex in Gens 3 and 4 and not just for nostalgia sake, but also because the GB and GBC games didn't hold up well; both mechanically and graphically speaking. Unlike the games for GB and GBC, the GBA games actually hold up quite well. No deadly glitches and despite the internal battery in the cartridges running out of power, you can still save the games and preserve a save file, unlike the aforementioned GB and GBC cartridges.

As to your response that people who skipped Gen 3 would want to go back and play R/S/E; like I said, the GBA games still hold up. If you don't have a GBA, its easier now to access VBA Emulators and download the GBA games to a Computer, Tablet, Smart Phone or any other device.

You guys and gals do understand that Game Freak is under no obligation to do remakes of R/S/E, despite what legitimate expectation you think there is. Hell, they're under no obligation to do a Pokemon Z either (there wasn't really anything mechanically wrong with X/Y like there was with R/S and D/P that warranted the need for a third version to fix it). They could do a Gen 7 if they wanted instead.

Whether they do decide to do remakes or not, it really doesn't affect me either way. My Emerald and Ruby versions still work if I want to revisit Hoenn and I think you get a hell of a lot more bang for your buck in X and Y than you would get in a remake of the Hoenn games.

@RoreyG it's possible to complete the National Dex in Gen III and since one could transfer into Gen IV so was that Generation's national dex able to be completed without the need for Gen II remakes, so the national dex excuse falls short.

It was ONLY possible to complete the National Dex in Gen 3 BECAUSE OF the Gen 1 remakes and Emerald. You were barely scratching the surface with just R/S alone.

Also, like I've already said, once the DSi came out, you could no longer transfer from Gens 3 to 4 because the extra slot for the GBA game cartridges were gone. It's unreasonable to think that everyone in the world could afford to get the latest gaming systems as soon as they come out. Hell, by the time I could afford to buy a DS, the DSi was the only thing available.

So no, the Dex argument doesn't fall short. In fact, it's quite reasonable.

 

[KostK2Boss]

Still doesn't tell me what practical reasons Game Freak would have for doing Hoenn Remakes.

I don't think anyone is saying that GF has to make Hoenn Remakes (at least I didn't say such a thing). It's just, we're talking about a franschise that spews out three main games every Generation (all three of which are technically the same game, just with a different legendary), as well as dozens of spin-offs that few people actually care about. I won't claim to understand the inner workings of a multi-billion dollar company, but if I were to make a guess I would say their thought process is less like "Is there a practical reason for this game to be made?" and more like "Will people actually buy this game?".
And I actually agree with you saying that the GBA games still hold up. Heck, I still occasionaly play those games and I know Hoenn like the back of my hand. Would I play the exact same game with updated graphics and game mechanics to match whatever Generation is out at the time? Sure I would! So yeah - as far as Pokedex completion is concered - R/S/E remakes don't have to be made and I don't think anyone will go to protest outside Nintendo HQ if we never get them. But Pokedex completion has not been the only reason GF makes remakes, so I don't believe that alone should be used to confirm or deny the possibility of R/S/E remakes one day coming out (whether they come out in Gen 6, or Gen 10).

 

[Baby~Eevee]

I do think they will eventually make remakes. Every other game has a DS version except Hoenn.

Plus, it's another way for them to make money so why not right?

 

[RoreyG]

I don't think anyone is saying that GF has to make Hoenn Remakes (at least I didn't say such a thing). It's just, we're talking about a franschise that spews out three main games every Generation (all three of which are technically the same game, just with a different legendary), as well as dozens of spin-offs that few people actually care about. I won't claim to understand the inner workings of a multi-billion dollar company, but if I were to make a guess I would say their thought process is less like "Is there a practical reason for this game to be made?" and more like "Will people actually buy this game?".
And I actually agree with you saying that the GBA games still hold up. Heck, I still occasionaly play those games and I know Hoenn like the back of my hand. Would I play the exact same game with updated graphics and game mechanics to match whatever Generation is out at the time? Sure I would! So yeah - as far as Pokedex completion is concered - R/S/E remakes don't have to be made and I don't think anyone will go to protest outside Nintendo HQ if we never get them. But Pokedex completion has not been the only reason GF makes remakes, so I don't believe that alone should be used to confirm or deny the possibility of R/S/E remakes one day coming out (whether they come out in Gen 6, or Gen 10).

I know that the National Dex wasn't the only reason for doing remakes for the first two generations but it was the main reason. And I'm not completely against the idea of doing Gen 3 remakes but only when it's necessary to do them.

I just think that it would be disappointing if Game Freak decides to do it now and spend the resources, time and effort in doing something to satisfy the nostalgia of just a portion of the Pokemon fanbase. The same time, effort and resources could be better spent trying to expand and improve on this AMAZING 6th Generation of Pokemon or even starting to develop an even better 7th Generation.

What really pisses me off though is the constant hype over these potential remakes.

I'm not saying that you or anyone in particular on this site does this but I've heard a lot of advocates for Gen 3 remakes around the internet and the most vocal ones rub me the wrong way, kind of like the Gen 3 equivalent of "Genwunners" (ugh, I hate that word).

The impression that I get when I hear these people speak is exactly this; "R/S/E iz da best games eva and if we don't get remakes like FR/LG and HG/SS, den I'm officially DONE wit Pokemons"

It's kind of both annoying and infuriating. To reiterate, I'm not saying that you or anyone else on Pokecommunity does this.

Anyways, regardless of what Game Freak decides to do on the matter, it doesn't affect me one bit. Just like they're not obligated to make 'em, I'm not obligated to spend my hard earned money to buy 'em (especially when my GBA still works and I'm trying to put myself through law school). That doesn't make me any less of a Pokemon Fan and I'll still continue to support the franchise (Again, I'm not saying you inferred this, I'm just speaking for myself).

Whatever you decide to do bro (should these games be made), more power to ya. Your choice and I've got no place telling you or anyone else how to spend your money or what you can or can't enjoy.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Off topic but I think the opposite of a gen 1er, gen 2er, gen3er, gen 4er, gen5er, gen6er are those who call every new generation the Best Ever before the third version is out...seems premature, and bandwagonny (well I guess right now the true Gen 6er's are mix with bandwagoners), then there's those who love all gens for what they have (I think this is the majoority of us, even those or us with a favorite gen who are willing to look beyond our nostalgia).

Ontopic: I think that a remake can give GF room to come up with a lot of new ideas as much as a third version can, if not more (especially graphically as it's a totally new area (aka not the new current region)).

 

[RoreyG]

Ontopic: I think that a remake can give GF room to come up with a lot of new ideas as much as a third version can, if not more (especially graphically as it's a totally new area (aka not the new current region)).

The only argument I'm getting here for a Hoenn remake is that the region would look pretty with 3D graphics.

If the main argument for remakes is just to see how Hoenn would look in 3D then remaking R/S/E isn't really necessary. The GBA games still hold up (as opposed to the GB/GBC games) so I think it would make zero sense for Game Freak to rehash R/S/E.

That said, IF there is enough support from the fans that would influence Game Freak to make another series of games set in Hoenn (or any of the other past regions for that matter) at this point in time, I think that the best and most exciting way in which they can go about doing that is if they do a different story with possibly different characters which would neatly tie in with the theme of 6th Gen.

For instance, I think that X/Y have enough throwbacks and links to Kanto more than any of the other past regions to warrant a revisit to Kanto (Kanto starters given by that region's Professor, Snorlax blocking the path, Gift Lapras, gift fighting type for unofficially beating a Fighting Gym Leader (Lucario here instead of Hitmonlee/ Hitmonchan), the Legendary Birds, Mewtwo, etc).

Obviously, FR/LG still hold up so it would serve no sensible purpose in retelling Red's journey. However, it would be interesting if we get to play out Professor Oak's journey. Agatha can be his rival, it can give us more insight into the famed Pokemon Professor and you can tie it in with 6th Gen like how it was done in Pokemon: The Origin (Mr. Fuji and Mega Evolutions, especially since all of the Kanto Starters have at least one).

If they can figure out how to do that and craft an interesting story either before or after the events of May/ Brendan's journey (or even in an alternate universe with different characters) that ties in with 6th Gen, then I can be more receptive to revising Hoenn.

It's not impossible. The door's already open with Mega Blaziken and all of the other Hoenn Pokemon with Mega Evos. And correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Hoenn Region host the most Pokemon with Mega Evolutions after Kanto?

MY POINT: It's entirely possible to revisit Hoenn without rehashing R/S/E, especially since the those games still hold up. The best and most exciting way in which Game Freak can take us back to Hoenn is if they do a different story with possibly different characters which would neatly tie in with 6th Gen.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I hope they allow us to dye Brandon's hair white as a reference to how some fans thought he had white hair xD.
I'll also like to see new Mega evolutions. Maybe they could include a Mega evolution side-journey like in XY, but with more details and answers to it's creation.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I don't understand the reasoning that Hoenn remakes can't happen because we don't need them to complete the national dex.

I'll tell you the reason for gen 3 remakes: Money, and lots of it.

Everything else is secondary. People seem to be forgetting that Nintendo is a business and not the "Board for the production of necessary pokemon games".

 

[Mega_Umbreon]

Hoenn Remakes?

Do you think there will be any Hoenn remakes? If so, what would you like to see in them?
I personally would love Hoenn remakes, especially with Gen 6 graphics.
What do you guys think?

 

[Necrum]

What I see, looking at the new Mega Evolution mechanic, is 10/30 mega evolutions stemming off Pokemon from Hoenn, 3 of which are not available in the main game (Blaziken, Latios, and Latias). In addition to this, all of the Hoenn Megas make no appearances during the story of the game, with the exception of Gardevoir, and the 7 available are all post game. To me this seems like strong evidence for Hoenn remakes, as it would mean that in those they could make the Megas available for use in the story of those games.

Hope grabbing aside, the arguments I've seen that all Pokemon are obtainable or that Hoenn games are still compatible seem kinda moot to me. Sure, you can send Pokemon from Hoenn games all the way to Kalos, but the old DS has been discontinued and Nintendo is pulling off all support, even shutting down it's wifi soon. GBA is so old that I doubt that Game Freak is really counting it in the set of available games. It would also make more sense for them to make sure the national dex was able to be completed inside of the most recent generation, which is essentially what Johto remakes did. Between all 4th gen games you could obtain all Pokemon of the time. I see no reason for them to not repeat that again here, especially now that we're on a whole new console all together, just like 4th gen was.

Regardless of evidence (or lack thereof) I truly believe that they will make Hoenn remakes. They have even said that if there is enough demand for them that they will make them, and as far as I can tell there is likely enough people who want those remakes. Wynaut?

 

[COOLTRAINER♂]

What if they just throw darts at a board to decide what pokemon they put into a game or make new evos for.

I hear every year there's an occasion where iwata rolls a 20 sided die to decide what kind of game to tell them to make next.

e: for real though i couldn't be further from having the slightest clue what they're thinking about new games, but it probably involves a lot of boring meetings where people discuss profit margins and development cycles.

 

[Monophobia]

Well, I'm just hoping they keep Mega Evolution special to Kalos. I really don't like it all that much, and honestly it seems to take the fun out of battling online for me.

So, Hoenn remake or not, I'm just crossing my fingers they don't include Mega Evolution.

 

[COOLTRAINER♂]

They didn't delete held items from Fire Red or natures and abilities from Heart Gold so i'm sorry but i think they're here to stay in future games.

 

[Monophobia]

They didn't delete held items from Fire Red or natures and abilities from Heart Gold so i'm sorry but i think they're here to stay in future games.

That's kind of irrelevant...it's like saying because I didn't eat chicken on Saturday that I'll never eat it again. {XD}