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PokéCommunity Daily: Pokémon Home(less): a truly baffling decision

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  • hello, I've merged your thread to an already existing discussion about this. wanted to let you know o/

    on this topic in particular, count me in as one of those people who aren't happy with this message, but I've realized it is what it is. maybe kicking up a fuss won't really matter in the long run and Game Freak has made their final decision on the matter. i dunno how long the national dex people can keep this up for, but i can't imagine this would be good for PR for quite a while to come.

    for me personally though, I'm still waiting on cool trailers to convince me to buy the games. not gonna lie, I've been feeling rather... drained because of all of this negativity lately (as understandable as it is, don't get me wrong), so it'd be nice to see some cool aspect about SwSh that isn't the Wild Area cause it seems that's being ripped to shreds.
     
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    Masuda's response just confirms for me that the hugely vocal Dexit protesters are drowning out the concerns that are, in my eyes, way more valid.

    Ah, well.
     
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    Masuda's response just confirms for me that the hugely vocal Dexit protesters are drowning out the concerns that are, in my eyes, way more valid.

    Ah, well.
    I think all the concerns are valid, but using "performance, graphics, and animations" as the excuse for cutting the Dex has also made them related, I think, in most people's eyes. So while I hear what you're saying, I think the Dexit protesters are indirectly also complaining about the overall game quality. They… we… just sometimes forget to mention those details. They're less "emotional" issues and also, honestly, feel way less likely to be addressed by Game Freak than a patch to include all the Pokémon. Though really it's all unlikely. It doesn't look like Game Freak is going to blink unless and until sales of these games tank, which is also probably unlikely. Despite the noise, I suspect a lot of people are just going to shrug it off and buy the games anyway.

    Also, Treecko, if you see this, I didn't mean to bite off your head. I think my message came out wrong. I really am asking you (and anyone else, too, of course) why you believe it's childish and absurd for someone to cancel preorders? That's not even boycotting; just not pledging to buy sight unseen. I think that's completely reasonable, and I'm trying to understand the perspective that it isn't.
     
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  • Alright, since nobody else is going to ask the question that truly matters, I'll ask it.

    After learning this news, is anybody here not going to buy this game?

    I'm boycotting or buying used. People are acting like Gamefreak withholding content is a purposeful decision, when Gamefreak could easily be pushing the Switch to its limits. It's a multimillion dollar corporation pushing out two mediocre games simultaneously, trying to shorten the interim between releases, and inappropriately acting like the fanbase "have short attention spans, want less content, and want instant gratification." Everything about this screams corporate ploy, and I wish people were more aware of the soulless display of quantity over quality that GF's been exhibiting.

    Part of me wonders if there is some kind of tactical scheming going on in the background in the name of profit. Announce this now, wait for outcry, and later have an announcement saying they have listened to fans and will be making changes but it will have to come at an extra cost. Fans will feel relief instead of rage if they do it that way maybe? I don't know, it just doesn't make sense for them to have made this kind of decision.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all. This would be an amazing tactic, but it'd hopefully raise a lot of suspicion.
     

    Treecko

    the princess without voice
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  • Also, Treecko, if you see this, I didn't mean to bite off your head. I think my message came out wrong. I really am asking you (and anyone else, too, of course) why you believe it's childish and absurd for someone to cancel preorders? That's not even boycotting; just not pledging to buy sight unseen. I think that's completely reasonable, and I'm trying to understand the perspective that it isn't.
    Obviously there's nothing wrong with canceling you're preorder of the games. The lack of a key feature such as this is a very justified reason to cancel a order or to not want it. What I was saying was childish is when people feel the need to go on every Pokémon social media page and tweet/comment a screenshot of them cancelling their order. Idk I see that as a petty way of saying "fuck you guy you're not getting my money". You can cancel your preorder over this , but deliberately going out your way to make sure game freak see that you did that seems childish to me.
     
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    L'Belle

    I am beauty!
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  • And yet again, Gamefreak and the Pokémon Company show no intention of listening to their fans. Can't say I expected much else.
     

    Sydian

    fake your death.
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  • is it bad that the more backlash this gets, the more i want these games to succeed? i mean yeah. this is a weird decision. but we largely still know nothing about these games and we definitely don't know what's in store for the future with pokemon home. idk. i just feel like everything has been knee jerk reactions so far (understandable, of course) and tbh i just need to wait and see where else they're going with this stuff before i write anything off about these games. response to everything else for the most part has been positive. idk i'm usually pretty pessimistic myself, but this just has me thinking. we don't know all THAT much yet. maybe let's just wait and see what goes down. if it stops you from picking up the games i mean that's your own prerogative of course, but it's not stopping me and i don't think it's gonna stop a majority of fans.
     

    Child Amnesiac

    Ever changing
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  • is it bad that the more backlash this gets, the more i want these games to succeed? i mean yeah. this is a weird decision. but we largely still know nothing about these games and we definitely don't know what's in store for the future with pokemon home. idk. i just feel like everything has been knee jerk reactions so far (understandable, of course) and tbh i just need to wait and see where else they're going with this stuff before i write anything off about these games. response to everything else for the most part has been positive. idk i'm usually pretty pessimistic myself, but this just has me thinking. we don't know all THAT much yet. maybe let's just wait and see what goes down. if it stops you from picking up the games i mean that's your own prerogative of course, but it's not stopping me and i don't think it's gonna stop a majority of fans.

    No, I want it to succeed too (despite my talk of cancellation), if just to spite everyone who's constantly whining.
    Because if there's one thing I can't stand, it's constant whining.
     
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    bobandbill

    one more time
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  • I want them to turn out good too! There's just a bunch of worries present atm that do make me pessimistic to a degree. One hopes there will be post game patches, and that what we've seen so far will be tuned up prior to release (e.g. animations/some textures - there is time for that, just not a lot).
     

    Sydian

    fake your death.
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  • oh of course. i don't mean to say that those with legitimate concerns can't have said worries or that they want the game to fail, i'm mostly thinking of the people that are being outright cruel to developers on social media. this is some of the heaviest backlash i've seen a pokemon game get in a long time and it's gone too far, imo. but it's all the more reason i'm hoping that the right decisions are made here and that we still get a stellar game out of it, despite the issues. i'm usually not very hyped for pokemon games anymore honestly (not that i won't get them, i'm just difficult to hype for anything tbh) so i guess that's a part of why i'm not so torn on this decision. i also am not someone that transfers pokemon up through the generations (it feels weird to send my pokemon into a gen they weren't necessarily supposed to be in? like it feels like i'm removing them from their home?) so that could also be it.

    i think i'm mostly just feeling sad for those that can't get their favorites in this game, especially those that have very obscure favorites. like. you really think we'll be seeing maractus in this game? or heatmor? then again, i would have said the same for bergmite, but we did see an avalugg in one of the trailers iirc so hopefully the distribution will be decent.
     

    BrandoSheriff

    Has a tendency to figure things out
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  • That statement kinda... soured me a bit. Basically them saying fan input doesn't matter to them, as they know the games will print money regardless. I want the games to succeed (and I know they will), but there's so many things killing my hype for it. I'm actually more excited for Masters at this point.

    Every Pokemon is someone's favorite, and it's gonna suck for those that can't play with the ones they really like. Since I only use the newly revealed Pokemon for the main story each gen, I'd say I'm more in the middle, with a slight bias towards having the whole dex, as I'd hate to see people not being able to use who they want. I also have a living dex I like moving up the generations that I've had since gen 3, and knowing that many of them will be stuck bothers me quite a bit. Pokemon Home better have something worth keeping them all there if I can't use them in later games.

    And it's not just the dex issue. Reusing old clunky animations and passing them off as "high quality", consistently removing well-liked gimmicks such as Megas and the battle frontier, claiming to care about balance when 2 generations ago they made a Pokemon so broken it needed it's own tier, and if I have to see one more "walk a few steps, stop, turn the whole model, then step some more"...

    Tbh, I think this might be the first generation where I don't get the game at launch. Too many things are rubbing me the wrong way. For now, I might just hold off and see what else it'll have, and see if it all was worth Thanos-ing everything else.
     
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    I think what makes this whole thing worse is posts like this. This isn't about "appreciating the world of Pokémon" anymore, this is running into petty, strange and obsessive hatred territory.

    But it is. Why enjoy a game when it clearly is a shell of what used to be? How can you say that you enjoy the poor excuses by gamefreak? How else should everyone respond to a company that cares nothing for it's customers? I would have more respect for a company that blatantly tells the truth than lie about it and assumes most of us are dumb enough to believe it. Naturally this invokes hatred. The less they listen the more outrage and rightfully so.

    Let's look at it as purely a business stand point. Company provides a product and the consumer buys and enjoys that product. Company begins to cut corners to quality of product and expects no reduction in price or any change whatsoever and the consumer begins to raise an eyebrow. Company continues to decline quality of product and the consumer begins to respond. Company ignores consumer and continues to decline product quality causing consumer to question continued purchases of product.
    Do you think the consumer should continue to use this product and pay the same prices when quality continues to decline? If you do then there's something wrong with you.

    Historically this kind of thing ends up in many riots and protests. And it has in many different countries. When a corporation is larger than a single customer then banding together and displaying our discontent is the only way of making change to an otherwise deaf corporation. But it's even worse... the corporation has heard the people and has made a statement such as "We know you're upset but we don't care because we know you will buy anyway" sugar coated it's no wonder people are pissed.
     
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    6,549
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    But it is. Why enjoy a game when it clearly is a shell of what used to be? How can you say that you enjoy the poor excuses by gamefreak? How else should everyone respond to a company that cares nothing for it's customers? I would have more respect for a company that blatantly tells the truth than lie about it and assumes most of us are dumb enough to believe it. Naturally this invokes hatred. The less they listen the more outrage and rightfully so.

    Let's look at it as purely a business stand point. Company provides a product and the consumer buys and enjoys that product. Company begins to cut corners to quality of product and expects no reduction in price or any change whatsoever and the consumer begins to raise an eyebrow. Company continues to decline quality of product and the consumer begins to respond. Company ignores consumer and continues to decline product quality causing consumer to question continued purchases of product.
    Do you think the consumer should continue to use this product and pay the same prices when quality continues to decline? If you do then there's something wrong with you.

    I hate to tell you this but it wholly not this deep
     
    6,549
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    How so? Because you don't care about it as much?

    If we are to pretend that dropping some Pokémon while also receiving a host of new ones, as well as new mechanics, as well as a few other things that a lot of Pokémon fans have wanted from the very beginning or even dreamt of, then sure, you absolutely have a point.

    Maybe I don't care so much because I have always had the realistic expectation that this would happen once the franchise got close to 1000 Pokémon. Has anyone complained about a drop in quality since they started adding ~70-80 Pokémon per generation? Like sure, have a whine that not every single Pokémon is making it into these games, have a moan that the graphics in the open world (in a demo) aren't entirely up to scratch — but if you're going to use these to bombard and drain the enjoyment out of others then perhaps it's yourself that's not appreciating the world of Pokémon anymore and it's time to move on.
     
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    If we are to pretend that dropping some Pokémon while also receiving a host of new ones, as well as new mechanics, as well as a few other things that a lot of Pokémon fans have wanted from the very beginning or even dreamt of, then sure, you absolutely have a point.

    Maybe I don't care so much because I have always had the realistic expectation that this would happen once the franchise got close to 1000 Pokémon. Has anyone complained about a drop in quality since they started adding ~70-80 Pokémon per generation? Like sure, have a whine that not every single Pokémon is making it into these games, have a moan that the graphics in the open world (in a demo) aren't entirely up to scratch — but if you're going to use these to bombard and drain the enjoyment out of others then perhaps it's yourself that's not appreciating the world of Pokémon anymore and it's time to move on.

    I hope this discussion doesn't cause an issue with us in the future. I certainly don't want to hold you in any bad regard. With that said I'd like to continue.

    Let me give another example. Say you get your order wrong at a Mc Donalds. Sure you wanted no pickles but there it is. Yeah it's just pickles and you can just pick them off but that isn't the issue or the point. The point is, regardless of value of the actual product, if the product is not up to par with what the customer is promised and expecting then the customer has a right to request correction and be upset when the company refuses to do so. That is the points I am making. This dynamic is the same in every business transaction regardless of the products worth. I don't know about you but if I have to pay 60 bucks I expect a game that's up to par with todays standards and I think that simply asking for all the pokemon to be supported (which is one of pokemons own motto! Gotta catchem all!) is barely anything close with being up to par with todays standards.
     
    6,549
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    I hope this discussion doesn't cause an issue with us in the future. I certainly don't want to hold you in any bad regard. With that said I'd like to continue.

    It won't! However I completely do not understand this mindset at all, I wish we could all just enjoy these games because at the end of the day — they haven't even came out yet. I remember similar arguments about BW when they were announced, hell even when RS or even SM were announced. I'm positive these games will hopefully impress, even if some Pokémon don't make it
     
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    It won't! However I completely do not understand this mindset at all, I wish we could all just enjoy these games because at the end of the day — they haven't even came out yet. I remember similar arguments about BW when they were announced, hell even when RS or even SM were announced. I'm positive these games will hopefully impress, even if some Pokémon don't make it

    Yeah I hear ya. It's why I stomached Sun and Moon. I just don't know about the switch games now. I don't know
     

    Circuit

    [cd=font-weight: bold; font-style: italic; backgro
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  • This problem is part of a bigger underlying issue that is only now starting to get attention thanks to the insanely bad decisions as of late. But I digress, I need to start at the beginning so bear with me here. This may come off rant-ish but I promise I don't mean it like that and will try to avoid that.

    Game Freak as a developer have been hugely successful with the Pokémon franchise. I mean, they own the third largest gaming franchise in the world, and that at the hands of a small development team of just over 100. That success has been astounding, and has only grown with each generation. They realised that with their formula they can constantly chuck out games that fans will each up and reap the rewards. Over time, this has lead to them cutting corners and putting less effort into their games, as it hasn't been necessary for them to see success with their games. It's gotten to the point where fans will just buy the games now because "it's the new Pokémon game". Whereas other developers need to put work in to make their games the best they can be, with minimal effort GF can reap the rewards thanks to the reputation and scale of their franchise. Since Gen 6 onwards, game quality has declined drastically. Stories have become incredibly simple and hand-holding, puzzle solving is all-but irrelevant, and the designs have become lazy. Changes between XY and SM were minimal as far as design and story writing go. Post-game has basically disappeared now. The amount of new Pokémon released has declined over time, and only goes to demonstrate how the development team has become lazy. However, they're not just lazy because they are successful, there is a reason for the corner cutting and simplicity of newer games.
    Game Freak has been chucking out new games at a faster and faster rate recently. What started with a 3/4 year gap between main-line games - 3 years between RB, GS and RS, and 4 years between RS and DP - has decreased to a one year gap since black and white. 2 years between BW and BW2, 1 year between that and XY, 1 year between SM and USUM and LGP/E and now SwSh. The trend is clear, they are pumping out a higher rate of games, giving them less time to work of the finer details. Why? Because their investors are only interested in one thing; money. How does that affect GF though you might ask. Well investors are the ones who hold the shares to the company and push the development with their investments. However this also grants them a say in how the company handles itself. If investors want x, the GF has incentive to grant x, lest the investors pull their support. Investors want to see the highest return rate possible on their investments, and obviously releasing more games at a faster rate does this. This means that in order for GF to keep up with the pressure, they have to cut corners in their games to keep to the release dates set by investors. This leads to very unoptimised, uninspired games like SM, USUM and now SwSh. This also leads them to take on more than one project at a time, such as working on both Pokémon Home and SwSh at the same time, as opposed to one at a time like before.
    Bear in mind this is just theory, however it is highly supported by the trends of the data when you look at it. So when GF is told they need to make a switch game, they will take the easiest and fastest to implement solution possible. Reusing all old assets, getting the absolute basic essentials in place as quickly as possible to make a playable game recognisable as "Pokémon" that can be released to meet the investors' demands.
    This lack of time leads to some very questionable decisions to ensure that the money keeps rolling in. They've spent so long on development of basic assets, that it's become infeasible to transfer all Pokémon assets to the new engine in time. That is, if you believe they will release the game without implementing every Pokémon and leaving only Galar Dex mons in the game. There is still the possibility that they will backtrack on this issue to lessen the blow of all the other short-comings of the game. But the main fact remains, those who are vocal about their dissatisfaction with the game as it stands are a vast minority. There are many many consumers out there oblivious to the development of the game, many children who don't look at or see the outrage, and will end up with the game since it is the "next Pokémon game" and many who will buy the game to feed their nostalgia towards their childhood spent playing RBY and so on.

    The choice to remove all Pokémon not part of the Galar Pokédex was a bad one, but it was bad only for those who are now talking about it online. GF does not care about the minority, it cares about revenue, and as evidenced by the trends seen over the years, more frequent Pokémon games means more revenue. They don't need to put effort into the games because they will sell regardless. Will they back-track? Who can say. I doubt it based on their responses and it deeply saddens me to see a franchise I love deteriorate like this. But I've been dissatisfied with Pokémon games since XY, and this is just the cherry on the cake for me personally. There is no evidence to support that these games will be anything besides disappointing, especially when compared with everything that possible on the Switch if you look at games like Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey and so on. The potential for these games is lost due to poor time planning, inability to negotiate with investors and complacency.

    Tl;dr Game Freak has become lazy due to pressure from investors and success of games with minimal effort. The decision to not include all Pokémon stems from that, and is unlikely to change which highly disappoints me, and I've resigned that this is where I will be taking my leave from the franchise. However this isn't a new issue with GF, only appearing in force now because of how visible the corner cutting and laziness is. But GF will not lose out because of this, since the majority of their audience will still buy the games, either due to not being aware of the issues with the game, or not caring and buying the game anyway.

    There is a lot more I could say about the issue, both the removal of non-Galardex mons and besides, but I'll leave this post like this for now.
     
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    Investors are not the issue. Investors want a pokemon product sure but if they're dissatisfied where else are they going to go? It's in my opinion that nintendo is only still around because they hold the monopoly of some of the best video game characters in history. They said it themselves that they have no interest in the console wars. Imagine what would happen to other companies that do that. Imagine if Pepsi decided not to pursue the wars with CokaCola? Cokacola would dominate the market with better prices and new flavors. Pepsi would eventually be somewhat forgotten and left in the dust. But imagine if Pepsi had a flavor that no one could replicate, that's Nintendo! Whatever Nintendo is now is a pale shadow of it's former glory. Nintendo was the way to go. The top of the line. Not anymore because they don't have to be. Please don't think this as hateful. The switch is ... horrible. It's a terrible portable and a terrible console. Especially in comparison with the competition. Yes even if Nintendo doesn't want to admit it, Sony and Microsoft is their competition. But because they have this upper hand of characters and history of them ingrained in our beings they can get away with it.
    Sadly this is so with pokemon. So I believe that no investor on earth could manipulate their pull on todays market.
     
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