Pokemon Alternate Universes

[Freddy Fazbear]

So I haven't gotten ORAS yet, but this image came up on my facebook feed: (spoilers maybe?)

Spoiler:

It really got me thinking:

If ORAS takes place in an alternate universe than what I'm assuming they mean the original Hoenn games, what if the other remakes - FireRed/LeafGreen and HeartGold/SoulSilver - take place in a universe that's different from their original games? And if so where would games that don't have remakes (4th-6th generation games) fall into this?

The theory I've come up with consists of two separate universes that the Pokemon series inhabits: A primary and a secondary timeline. The Primary timeline includes RB, GS, RS, DP, BWB2W2, and XY. The Secondary timeline houses the remake games FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS. This dual-universe theory explains why there are huge differences between original games and their remakes, such as the Steel and Dark types being added to Kanto, and the Battle Frontier in Johto. (Technically by this logic every game takes place in a separate universe, because there are minor plot differences between them sometimes, such as using Groudon to stop Team Magma in Ruby yet using Kyogre to stop Team Aqua in Sapphire. But let's just focus on the Primary and Secondary timelines for this.)

I've been scouring the internet and replaying old games, looking for clues that these alternate universes could be possible. I wanted to find anything that references events or people, not necessarily locations, of other games. Here's what I've found:

Spoiler:

In HeartGold and SoulSilver (I dunno if this is in the originals), someone states that the shut down of Team Rocket (an event that occurred during the first gen and its remakes) happened 3 years ago, thus confirming the fact that RBY/FRLG took place three years prior to GSC/HGSS.

Blue/Gary Oak is mentioned in Pokemon X and Y in a Pokemon Center in Lumiose City as having visited the area recently.

Professor Oak himself appears in 3 out of the 6 generations, not including remakes. He is an important character in RBY and GSC (and FRLG and HGSS), and cameos in DPP's post-game.

In FRLG's postgame, a Team Rocket member mentions Giovanni's son, whose description strongly matches that of Silver, your Johto rival.

Looker appears in the most recent three generations as a minor character.

Cynthia and Wake from DPP make appearances in HGSS, but NOT in GSC. (I have a theory about this, as this could cause people to infer that DPP and HGSS take place in one universe. I suggest that these characters are not the same Cynthia and Wake that appear in DPP, but rather in the unmade remakes of those games, and that their cameos in HGSS takes place before they are ever challenged by the protagonists of the Sinnoh Remakes.)

A scientist in Sycamore's lab reveals that Sycamore learned from Professor Rowan in his youth.

The Pokemon World Tournament has every gym leader, champion, and even a few rivals and villains make appearances.

I found this in my research. Coincidence?

So what do you think? Am I talking crazy? Does this make a shred of sense? Am I missing clues? Please share anything you have found that might support or disprove this theory.

 

[tioeduardo27]

Heads-up: I haven't played ORAS nor XY yet.

Well, I think you are right about this "other" universe thing, but don't you think you are overthinking this a little? I'm like 80% sure they put this into the game as a nod to the players...

Well, congratulations for your findings, though...

 

[GiraKoth]

I think that the two distincts timelines are moslty :
- FRLG / RSE / DPPt / BW / BW2
- XY / ORAS

Why? Well, first, we know that if there's only two universes, one contain Mega Evolutions and the second does not, so XY can't be on the same one than BW for exemple.
Because of their remakes, I think that RBY and GSC should be considered as obsolete now. Why isn't ORAS obsolete too? Just because it's not in the same timeline, as ORAS get Mega Evolutions that RSE does not. If we had to make a timeline showing both universes, based on what Nintendo said, it would be like that (a bit ugly but whatever) :

RFLG | DPPt | BW | BW2
RSE | HGSS | --- |
------------------------>
ORAS | --- | --- | XY

 

[Mega_Kris]

I assume ORAS is trying to introduce mega evolutions. But I believe that the remakes are an alternate universe.as well....but I haven't played ORAS yet.

 

[Freddy Fazbear]

I think that the two distincts timelines are moslty :
- FRLG / RSE / DPPt / BW / BW2
- XY / ORAS

Why? Well, first, we know that if there's only two universes, one contain Mega Evolutions and the second does not, so XY can't be on the same one than BW for exemple.
Because of their remakes, I think that RBY and GSC should be considered as obsolete now. Why isn't ORAS obsolete too? Just because it's not in the same timeline, as ORAS get Mega Evolutions that RSE does not. If we had to make a timeline showing both universes, based on what Nintendo said, it would be like that (a bit ugly but whatever) :

RFLG | DPPt | BW | BW2
RSE | HGSS | --- |
------------------------>
ORAS | --- | --- | XY

So far, I had placed XY in the same universe as the other main series games, thinking that maybe it takes place far enough into the timeline to have Mega Stones not be discovered until then. But I do agree in placing it outside the main series timeline, because of Fairy types. Types aren't superficial. In BW, my Gardevoir can go against Iris' Garchomp and be killed by Outrage, but all of a sudden it's been "discovered" that it's immune to Dragon type moves? That doesn't make sense, unless A) the Fairy type is a mutation or something that grew on certain Pokemon species in between BW2 and XY, or B) BW2 and before don't take place in the same universe as XY.

 

[adameastment]

I'm just going to put this out there... I'm pretty sure Game Freak just retcon certain aspects of the games to suit. For instance, you couldn't breed in RBY but you could in GSC. But when the remakes were made then all that was retconned, along with the size of the Pokedex.

RSE apparently happened at the same time as RBY and you can breed in there too. Surely, if they kept to canon they would have removed the ability to breed in RSE just to try and keep it to canon.

Elsewhere, Mew was claimed to be the first Pokemon but in actuality Arceus was the first Pokemon, then Dialga, Palkia and Giratina, then Groudon and Kyogre and then probably Mew.

If people ignore the line that Sycamore says about "Mega Evolution can only happen in the Kalos region" then it's fine, he can be researching it as much as he likes.

 

[Alfieri]

I believe that from RBY to B2W2 is the 1st timeline.

The remakes: FRLG, HGSS, ORAS, as well as X&Y are the 2nd timeline.

Makes sense since the remakes added stuff to the original games so it kinda broke the canon. Such as the Sevii Islands in Kanto, Battle Frontier in Johto, and Mega Evolution in Hoenn.

 

[Hiatus]

Certain remakes taking place in alternative universe would indeed make sense; it'd give us ideas as to how or why things that weren't available in original titles are now accessible in newer ones.

Though, how I personally tend to take it is, in original games, we, of course, had restrictions as to what features, events, and so forth were given due to a variety of factors (mega-evolution in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, for example; in Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald days, it did not exist, whether it be because they were unable to come up with this idea or they could not fit the feature into GBA cartridges due to size), so I wind up imagine that remakes and originals are in the same world, but latter usually do not get to cover some things we would find in former because of it.

I'm sorry if what I said tends to confuse us, haha. The alternative universe theory is indeed pretty interesting, however, and I believe there to be some good amount of chance for it to be true!

 

[Mega_Kris]

Yellow is technically an alternate universe. But I dont think thats the case....remakes add pokemon of the current gen. And mega evolution is 3 generations apart from Ruby and Sapphire.I honestly believe its retconning. Ruby and Sapphire remake has been long overdue.

 

[Hiatus]

I believe it would have been nice if they were to explain these kind of things officially--such as which game comes before, which comes after, which is in a separate universe, which's in the same, and so forth--so that fans would have better luck with keeping up with the pace should they ever wonder. Of course, it's possible to put things together ourselves and whatnot, but it'd give us more of a better vibe, so to speak, if it were to come from GameFreak themselves.

 

[Mega_Kris]

I'm not sure whats so difficult. The pokemon games have generally had a easy timeline. its up until the remakes that make things difficult to understand.

 

[Astraea]

Haven't played ORAS yet but I have heard they made the remakes to introduce the new mega evolutions after X and Y.

 

[Astraea]

Though I have heard some rumors or alternate universe thingy on fb

 

[KostK2Boss]

This is the Zelda Timeline all over again. Tons of people analysing the events of different games and how they connect in great detail and coming up with plausible theories of their own, only for Nintendo to release a chart that says "Nope! You are all wrong!"
Unless, Zinnia appears in future games and we learn more about her, I wouldn't take her word for granted, 'cause she says a lot of crazy things during the Delta Episode. Though, I believe the implication was that the alternate universe she's talking about is R/S/E.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Here's my theory on the timeline. Take it or leave it:

Alpha Reality Prime: Yellow, Crystal

Beta Reality Prime: FRLG, HGSS, Emerald, Platinum, BW, B2W2

Omega/Reboot Reality: ORAS, XY

Third Versions traditionally overwrite originals, hence Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum being there instead of RB, GS, RS, and DP. (Plus, Yellow, Emerald, and Platinum were all confirmed to be canon by Gens 2 and 5, respectively.)

Alpha Reality Prime is the timeline of the original GB/C games, where Dark/Steel didn't exist before the time of GSC, Red never explored the Sevii Islands, Kris is the girl from New Bark, Baoba didn't build a Safari Zone in Johto, Cerulean Cave collapsed for good, and most of all, Pokémon beyond #251 weren't known in Kanto and Johto. The placement of Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, and Kalos in this timeline is unknown.

Beta Reality Prime, on the other hand, is the timeline of the GBA and DS games, with Dark/Steel having always existed, the Sevii Islands, Lyra, the Johto Safari Zone, and whatnot. It's unknown what caused the split between Alpha and Beta, but as many have theorized, Bill's Time Capsule may have had something to do with it (thus, explaining why it never appeared again after Generation 2). The placement of Kalos in this timeline is unknown.

And, then, there's the last timeline, the Omega/Reboot Reality. This is the new timeline that was established with the 3DS games, ORAS and XY. Here, Fairies have always existed, and AZ's War happened (causing Mega Evolutions to exist). We've seen Hoenn and Kalos on this timeline, but not any of the other stories (which is where further remakes would come into play).
​

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I think right now we have four main groups with minor differences between pair and third versions
1) The one belonging to RGBGSC

2) The second one RSFrLgEDPPHgSsBWB2W2 where Dark and Steel are already known and more mons being discovered. Also where Pokemon from Bulbasaur to Deoxys were known to exist at the start with discoveries added over the years culminating in B2W2.

3) XY where Mega Evolution was restricted to Kalos and Fairies were recently discovered.

4)OrAs where Megas spread throughout the world and more were known. Also where Fairies were uncovered. I think Z will be part of this fourth timeline.

I think GF will have a 5th once DP remakes come out or if Gen VII happens between OrAs and the Kalos times.

 

[Megan]

You know what my main problem with Pokemon timelines is? Whenever someone comes up wit one of these, he forgets the most important point: version exclusive Pokemon.
They range from your random early game rodents (e.g. Oddish, Bellsprout in Red/Blue) to even legendary Pokemon (Groudon in Ruby, Kyogre in Sapphire). Is it possible for the hero to fight Team Aqua and ultimately Kyogre, while also fighting Team Magma and Groudon at the same time, without being in Emerald? What if we only take one version of the games like X, where he chooses Froakie, while in another version of X he chooses Fennekin as his starter? Is it still the same timeline, or rather an alternate world altogether?

 

[BettyNewbie]

You know what my main problem with Pokemon timelines is? Whenever someone comes up wit one of these, he forgets the most important point: version exclusive Pokemon.
They range from your random early game rodents (e.g. Oddish, Bellsprout in Red/Blue) to even legendary Pokemon (Groudon in Ruby, Kyogre in Sapphire). Is it possible for the hero to fight Team Aqua and ultimately Kyogre, while also fighting Team Magma and Groudon at the same time, without being in Emerald? What if we only take one version of the games like X, where he chooses Froakie, while in another version of X he chooses Fennekin as his starter? Is it still the same timeline, or rather an alternate world altogether?

Well, in games that have a Third Version, that version is usually taken as canon over the paired games. GSC treated Yellow as being more canon than Red/Blue (ie. Red's Team), and BW/2 treated Emerald and Platinum as being more canon than Ruby/Sapphire and Diamond/Pearl (ie. Juan, Champion Wallace, references to Giratina, etc.). It can be assumed that Crystal would've been seen the same way had the original Gen 2 games gotten a direct follow-up.

Games that are just a pair (like the remakes and Gen 5 games), on the other hand, are a different story. Most of the time, I'd just chalk up version exclusives as a form of gameplay/story segregation that has no effect on the story, but cases like Groudon/Kyogre are a little trickier.

 

[ChikoritaCheezits]

A split timeline sounds like the most reasonable theory in this case, seeing as how in the remakes, you can find Pokemon that have not been discovered in their originals. Soon the Pokemon timeline will be as confusing as the Legend of Zelda's.

 

[ggctuk]

I see it like this: each game has its own set reality. So, Red is a different world from Blue is a different world from Yellow etc.