Pokemon Discussion (Current Subject: Aerodactyl)

[BakingBluePotatoe]

Heck yeah to that, SC! Tricky-ness is what I like!

You see, this is why Lucario is awesome: You can never exactly anicipate HOW He'll hit, and when he does... you go DOWN.

 

[boo836]

Counters:

Spiritomb ( hp fighting)

Azelf

Cresselia

Infernape

Gliscisor

Weavile Unless you are runnin g a novelty me first.

Celebi

Swampert (If running physical)

Dusknoir If no crunch

Armaldo If you are running physical

Flygon

Rhyperior If physical

Houndoom

Salamence

Tangrowth If you're physical

Yeah, that's basicly the list. I know there's more though. This thread is dieing. :(

 

[Dark Azelf]

Counters:

Spiritomb ( hp fighting)


Azelf

Cresselia possibly

Infernape

Gliscisor

Weavile

Celebi possibly

Swampert

Dusknoir if no crunch

Armaldo


Flygon


Rhyperior

Houndoom

Salamence if no stone edge


Tangrowth

Thats not a counter list, half that stuff gets Ohko'd by extremespeed, Close Combat.

100% Sure fire counter for SD Lucario no matter what physical moves its packing= Weezing, Gliscor.


Or, whats commonly know as "Move slot Syndrome", what i mean by this is that it either runs Crunch or Stone Edge, without Stone Edge, Salamence and Gyarados etc come in easier, and without Cruch, Celebi, Cressy and other ghosts/psychics wall it (Note: NOT GENGAR or Mismagius and other frail psychics like Azelf, these are Ohkod by Bullet Punch and Extremespeed respectively)


Also the definition of counter : A counter is a pokemon who can switch into another pokemon with taking little or no harm and cause the opposing pokemon a threat with the potential of ohkoing it or at least causing a switch.


While salamence and flygon beat it one on one, mence cannot switch in on a stone edge and Flygon cannot come in on a Close Combat.


Even as the special version counter list, its bad, Shadow Ball or Dark pulse, Aura Sphere, Vaccum Wave, Dragon pulse or Hidden power Ice, everything in that counter list gets wasted if Luke predicts correctly.

 

[sims796]

Hey, does Lucario run Blaze Kick all too often? Cause if it doesn't, I have a poke as well.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Hey, does Lucario run Blaze Kick all too often? Cause if it doesn't, I have a poke as well.

I suppose its an ok option, but its not too commonly seen.

I dont really know what its good for, steels and grass/poison types ? Close Combat kills all steels after a boost anyways, so that just leaves grass/poison types.

 

[sims796]

Then Torterra would be an OK counter.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Then Torterra would be an OK counter.

Close combat ohko's Skarmory after swords dance, so im not sure if torterra would survive.

 

[sims796]

Ah, very well then. Of course, if he can switch in on the right move, such as an Earthquake...

Oh, no. I forget, it's faster. Unless Torterra has been passed Speed (such as a Jolteon passing Agility to Torterra), he won't survive the next hit. I was so close, too.

 

[celestial_okami]

Close combat ohko's Skarmory after swords dance, so im not sure if torterra would survive.

Uh... no? Your damage calculator must be off or you didn't calculate it right. SD Close combat from max attack LO'd Lucario deals 84.43-99.7% to max hp max def Skarmory. Unless you got some rocks up or have it already weakened or it switches into some other attack (I don't see why the opponent would chose to do so if they do some small match) it survives. Heck, it can come into rocks, take a CC and Whirl you away if it gets lucky.

Toterra takes more, minimum 88.32% so after rocks its over for you.


I've used SD Lucario to good success, setting up sweeps with my walls when I basically have no other attackers left. Learning what your opponent's physical walls and faster pokemon and setting up Rocks is crucial. SS could suffice but you could lose to sashers. I run Bullet Punch over Stone Edge usually because I see Gengar more than just about anything on PC, so I adjust for my environment.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Uh... no? Your damage calculator must be off or you didn't calculate it right. SD Close combat from max attack LO'd Lucario deals 84.43-99.7% to max hp max def Skarmory. Unless you got some rocks up or have it already weakened or it switches into some other attack (I don't see why the opponent would chose to do so if they do some small match) it survives. Heck, it can come into rocks, take a CC and Whirl you away if it gets lucky.

Toterra takes more, minimum 88.32% so after rocks its over for you.


I've used SD Lucario to good success, setting up sweeps with my walls when I basically have no other attackers left. Learning what your opponent's physical walls and faster pokemon and setting up Rocks is crucial. SS could suffice but you could lose to sashers. I run Bullet Punch over Stone Edge usually because I see Gengar more than just about anything on PC, so I adjust for my environment.

Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Skarmory 85.03% - 100.30%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Bronzong: 96.15% - 113.02%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Hippowdon: 76.43% - 90.00%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Forretress: 80.23% - 94.63%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Donphan: 82.81% - 97.40%

Those are the damage calculations. From smogon, so are very unlikely to be wrong, ive also done damage calcs myself using metalkids calc. Are you sure your using Adamant Nature@life Orb ?

With stealth rock up, its more often a ohko than not, Also note the ev spread aswell, most people dont run max hp AND max def that much, the most common skarmory ev spreads are : -


252 hp / 96 att / 156 def / 4 speed.

252 hp / 196 def / 60 att.

252 hp / 16 att / 200 def / 40 sp.def


If it takes that much with max hp AND max def, something tells me that if it runs one of the much more common above ev spreads and comes in on a turn you swords dance and Stealth rock is up, its game over for skarm, unless it switches out and in which case you then attack according to what you predict they will send at you.

 

[sims796]

Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Skarmory 85.03% - 100.30%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Bronzong: 96.15% - 113.02%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Hippowdon: 76.43% - 90.00%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Forretress: 80.23% - 94.63%
Close Combat vs Max HP/Def Donphan: 82.81% - 97.40%

Those are the damage calculations. From smogon, so are very unlikely to be wrong.

With stealth rock up, its more often a ohko than not, Also note the ev spread aswell, most people dont run max hp AND max def that much, the most common skarmory ev spreads are : -


252 hp / 96 att / 156 def / 4 speed.

252 hp / 196 def / 60 att.

252 hp / 16 att / 200 def / 40 sp.def


If it takes that much with max hp AND max def, something tells me that if it runs one of the much more common above ev spreads and comes in on a turn you swords dance and Stealth rock is up, its game over for skarm, unless it switches out and in which case you then attack according to what you predict they will send at you.

Remember, you did say when Skar switches into Lucario. That is basically an insta-kill.

 

[celestial_okami]

I noted the calculations from Smogon before I posted. They were also made months ago when we understood less about the damage calculation formula. They appear to have used Metalkid's damage calculator which I found seems to not statistically floor fractional damage until the last step when it should be done at every step, the one I use is X-Act's formula which does floor at every step. I am willing to believe that I am wrong however, and so I posted not a moment ago there inquiring about it.

I agree it isn't the typical set, but we also assume Rocks which might not be there, and that Skarmory switches in, which it shouldn't. If it can survive with a max/max EV spread, it is important and should be noted! Also, "85-103%" is significantly different from the "is OHKO'd" claim your previous post made, and I thought it was worth clearing up. I'm not saying the assertion that skarmory can't stop Lucario is wrong, but people should not be misled and then surprised when an unexpected result occurs.

Don't assume that 'because it is on smogon, it cannot be wrong' or 'it is the best.' New ideas and sets are being developed and old information and sets are found lacking in the face of change and discovery. Also don't assume I am claiming that you think that way! Its just a word of advice. I sometimes use a Miltank spread which is basically Blissey Lite (discouraged by Smogon), but EV'd to let me cripple and kill non-spec'd Gengars who think they can just come in and take me out with Focus Blast. I found it worked well in the PC battle forums, where I came across Gengar in almost every battle and was able to use a non-obvious set on one of my favorite pokemon to stop it (unlike something like Weavile where your intent is obvious). Smogon's analyses are a great start, I love them to death, but they are not by far the final stop when it comes to pokemon.

EDIT - Whoo PC was down for awhile. X-Act replied to my PM on smogon and confirmed the damage.

I just checked the damage. It should be 84.43% to 99.70%, just like you said, meaning 282 to 333 damage. MetalKid's is reporting 284 to 335 damage for some reason.

 

[Sora_8920]

I noted the calculations from Smogon before I posted. They were also made months ago when we understood less about the damage calculation formula. They appear to have used Metalkid's damage calculator which I found seems to not statistically floor fractional damage until the last step when it should be done at every step, the one I use is X-Act's formula which does floor at every step. I am willing to believe that I am wrong however, and so I posted not a moment ago there inquiring about it.

I agree it isn't the typical set, but we also assume Rocks which might not be there, and that Skarmory switches in, which it shouldn't. If it can survive with a max/max EV spread, it is important and should be noted! Also, "85-103%" is significantly different from the "is OHKO'd" claim your previous post made, and I thought it was worth clearing up. I'm not saying the assertion that skarmory can't stop Lucario is wrong, but people should not be misled and then surprised when an unexpected result occurs.

Don't assume that 'because it is on smogon, it cannot be wrong' or 'it is the best.' New ideas and sets are being developed and old information and sets are found lacking in the face of change and discovery. Also don't assume I am claiming that you think that way! Its just a word of advice. I sometimes use a Miltank spread which is basically Blissey Lite (discouraged by Smogon), but EV'd to let me cripple and kill non-spec'd Gengars who think they can just come in and take me out with Focus Blast. I found it worked well in the PC battle forums, where I came across Gengar in almost every battle and was able to use a non-obvious set on one of my favorite pokemon to stop it (unlike something like Weavile where your intent is obvious). Smogon's analyses are a great start, I love them to death, but they are not by far the final stop when it comes to pokemon.

EDIT - Whoo PC was down for awhile. X-Act replied to my PM on smogon and confirmed the damage.

Metalkid's is by far the best. Where are you getting this stuff, barring the calcs on SD Lucario?

Like mentioned before, Mixed Lucario surprises opponents like Blissey surprisingly well. Making it one of the best, if not, the best set. I'll post my set later.

 

[Anti]

Metalkid's is by far the best. Where are you getting this stuff, barring the calcs on SD Lucario?

Like mentioned before, Mixed Lucario surprises opponents like Blissey surprisingly well. Making it one of the best, if not, the best set. I'll post my set later.

Why would you want to "surprise Blissey" when EVERY other Lucario set absolutely wastes it? Specs Aura Sphere is a 2HKO and Close combat...lol. Mixed Lucario sucks IMO. It can't do anything better than its other sets, it can only sweep things with average potential.

It reminds me of running a mixed set with something like Metagross, who can run all physical sets way way better...that kind of thing.

 

[Syaoran]

The only good thing about mixed Lucario is getting rid of Gliscor with HP ice. Other than that, it's really not that great.

However.

Considering how fast and hard hitting this gen is, no one even thinks about using Focus Blast on Lucario. With 120 BP and STAB this thing hurts. It can work very well on a Life Orb mixed Sweeper set: Focus Blast, HP ice, Close Combat and Crunch possibly. I'm just thinking out loud here tho. xD

 

[Sora_8920]

Why would you want to "surprise Blissey" when EVERY other Lucario set absolutely wastes it? Specs Aura Sphere is a 2HKO and Close combat...lol. Mixed Lucario sucks IMO. It can't do anything better than its other sets, it can only sweep things with average potential.

It reminds me of running a mixed set with something like Metagross, who can run all physical sets way way better...that kind of thing.

I see, thanks for the correction...

 

[Ársa]

The only good thing about mixed Lucario is getting rid of Gliscor with HP ice. Other than that, it's really not that great.

However.

Considering how fast and hard hitting this gen is, no one even thinks about using Focus Blast on Lucario. With 120 BP and STAB this thing hurts. It can work very well on a Life Orb mixed Sweeper set: Focus Blast, HP ice, Close Combat and Crunch possibly. I'm just thinking out loud here tho. xD

Simply because Aura Sphere doesn't miss. Lucario isn't bulky enough to afford a miss, hence it runs all 100% Accuracy moves...

Focus Blast could be an option, but anything that it would need to OHKO, Aura Sphere would do too, and they would both 2HKO similar things too, so perhaps no real reason for it...

~T_S

 

[Dark Azelf]

Simply because Aura Sphere doesn't miss. Lucario isn't bulky enough to afford a miss, hence it runs all 100% Accuracy moves...

Focus Blast could be an option, but anything that it would need to OHKO, Aura Sphere would do too, and they would both 2HKO similar things too, so perhaps no real reason for it...

~T_S

Speaking of bulky dance Lucario,

Lucario@Leftovers
252 HP / 96 Def / 136 Sp.D / 24 Speed
Adamant Nature
- Extremespeed / Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch / Stone Edge / Bullet Punch

It apparently is a nice switch in on stone edges etc and that spread takes advantages of its numerous resistances, speed it to outspeed att forms of t-tar.

Seems kind meh to me, but has anyone used/seen one ? And how did it function ?

 

[Syaoran]

Bad.. STAB Earthquakes will still 1HKO the dude. It's just not worth the attack loss. Lucario can take 1 unstabbed hit and use this turn to Swords Dance, and then rampage.

Simply because Aura Sphere doesn't miss. Lucario isn't bulky enough to afford a miss, hence it runs all 100% Accuracy moves...

Gee, I wonder why everyone uses Focus Blast on Gengar!

I haven't run calcs, but just thinking of 180 BP+STAB special attack coming from him is pretty dangerous. It exceeds a super effective HP ice on Hippo and will most likely 1HKO Skarm, unlike Aura Sphere.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Bad.. STAB Earthquakes will still 1HKO the dude. It's just not worth the attack loss. Lucario can take 1 unstabbed hit and use this turn to Swords Dance, and then rampage.



Gee, I wonder why everyone uses Focus Blast on Gengar!

I haven't run calcs, but just thinking of 180 BP+STAB special attack coming from him is pretty dangerous. It exceeds a super effective HP ice on Hippo and will most likely 1HKO Skarm, unlike Aura Sphere.

Metal Sound or just old specs IMO would work great with that....

Ill run some calcs...


Modest Choice Specs Focus Blast

Defender HP: 714
Damage: 461 - 542
Damage: 64.57% - 75.91%

On Bold 252 hp / 6 sp.def blissey

-----------------------------------------

Modest Choice Specs Focus Blast

Defender HP: 661
Damage: 359 - 423
Damage: 54.31% - 63.99%

On 40 hp / 216 sp.def Calm Blissey

-------------------------------------------------------------
Modest Life Orb'd, Focus Blast after a Metal Sound

Defender HP: 714
Damage: 792 - 932
Damage: 110.92% - 130.53%

TO Bold 252 hp / 6 sp.def bold bliss

----------------------------------
Modest Life Orb'd Focus Blast after Metal Sound,

Defender HP: 661
Damage: 616 - 725
Damage: 93.19% - 109.68%

On 40 hp / 216 sp.def Calm Blissey


Poor Bliss =o