Pokemon Hate

[Twilight Storm]

Why do people hate pokemon such as Garbodor, Stunfisk, Luvdisc, Vanilluxe, and so on?

 

[pkmin3033]

A combination of personal preference regarding design aesthetics and usability in the metagame, perhaps? The Pokemon you mentioned are typically cited as being pretty damn useless, having an uncreative design, or being just plain ugly. I suppose in some corners its popular to hate on certain Pokemon, too. Ask different people and you'll get a bunch of different reasons, although I think those are the most common ones.

 

[Nah]

Because people naturally have to hate something

 

[Desert Stream~]

Why do people hate pokemon such as Garbodor, Stunfisk, Luvdisc, Vanilluxe, and so on?

I like most of them. Garbodor, while not astheticly pleasing (my brother seems to like it though) is a good fighter. Stunfisk has a cool design, and can actually be pretty useful. Luvdisc may not be strong, but it's design is decent, and it looks like something that would fit in Hoenn. and Vanilluxe is good in both aspects.

 

[illumine]

Why do people hate pokemon such as Garbodor, Stunfisk, Luvdisc, Vanilluxe, and so on?

To put it simply, for different reasons. I have italicised a word there, because it seems that that is the preferred mode of communicating here, along with possible references to genres of anime, but if you can understand words you should have a future here. Or should that rather be 'concepts'?

Obviously, each Pokémon is an insertion into the overall series of 'Pokémon,' so to speak, and hence will be judged on that basis at least. People might well dislike it if a Pokémon with a seemingly bad design is introduced, and claimed to have place in that whole (which is thus modified), especially if it seems symptomatic. They will hence want it removed, effectively, but in general and in the overall scheme of things at least ignored. Now, for the part which is actually as much legible English as the previous sentences, which were only obscure conceptually: people tend to dislike Luvdisc, for instance, due to its efficacy in certain contexts of battle, which is to say regardless of its design or point, while Vanilluxe or Garbador are disliked for their designs and hence more generally. There is a certain sense in which Pokémon like Vanilluxe are seen as representing the modern games being a bit frivolous and detached from any particular ideas when it comes to Pokémon. Anyway, so while people do get annoyed about these things, they sometimes aren't that annoyed about the Pokémon itself and more whether it helps them, which seems extraneous to that.

That said, it is sometimes strange how people consider, say, 'Missingno.', a serious problem with the early games, given that it was hardly to their detriment concretely, and likewise the implicit demand to get rid of such things. You could call it a technical flaw, which is neutral, but it might be a flaw in the technique. In any case that kind of thing may have contributed to the early gens involving a lot of grassroots discussion and mythology, which died out very quickly with the later gens, especially after R/S/E. Likewise, people were interested in the overall matrix of Pokémon and their inter-relations, in some manner or other, forming allegiances or otherwise, and as such didn't just treat it as merely a shiny piece of something meant for entertainment - which probably helped them get further in the games. These kinds of dislikes towards Garbador, etc., are mostly to be taken as a bit of a pale reflection of that kind of thing, rather than a real example of dislike towards Pokémon and reasons for such.

-

Of course, a Pokémon's relations to other Pokémon and place in the whole are very much a part of that Pokémon (unless they're Ash's Pikachu which post-Brock has tried to hide anything it might have to do with other types of Pokémon), so in that sense 'sides' and such existed within the Pokémon themselves. That kind of thing led to animosity towards Pokémon, in the past especially, but since then the series has really cooled down on trying to create Pokémon with much meaning, really, and that kind of conflict, and as a result mostly caters to the kinds of people who are analogically into the anime for the improving of relations between 'Gary' and 'Ash' regardless of Pokémon, relationships, etc. In that sense you won't find that much actual dislike when it comes to Pokémon, and hence something fairly marginalised like use in a niche form of battle can seem like a Pokémon being substantively disliked, in any manner really.

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

Thor knows why.

Nah, really, they hate them "for their design", ignoring that eeveelutions and pika-clones are even more boring than Garbodor and Vanilluxe. Luvdisc is quite useless, though, and Vanilluxe is very outclassed, but Garbodor and Stunfisk do have their uses in the meta!

 

[illumine]

Nah, really, they hate them "for their design", ignoring that eeveelutions and pika-clones are even more boring

'Boring' is the opposite of 'exciting,' not 'good.' And in any case you would assume you might be taking issue with people disliking them 'for their design,' rather than the emphasis weirdly being placed on 'for their design.' Pika-clones is unspecific and fairly recent, while 'Eeveelutions' is highly unspecific - they are quite different, despite perhaps evolving from Eevee - as seriously in terms of design there are certainly a few who are likely to be seen as better even casually, from Umbreon to Vaporeon. I doubt that people were talking about the meta, though, where nobody has negative views on a Pokémon, because that isn't the question. The meta does not engage with the game as such, it just assumes everything there without critique, which seems tautological but is surely not a basis for deciding the question or for posing it.

 

[VisualJae]

People have reasons to hate anything.

Yes, some people even hate ice cream (I know a few people off the top of my head).

Now apply that to literally anything you can think of. Someone out there will hate it. There can be countless reasons.

Don't like Garbodor? Maybe it's aesthetics? Maybe you don't like green? Maybe you don't like beady pupils? Maybe you just don't like garbage? Maybe you don't like Poison-type Pokémon? Oh, great, now we can go about explaining why you don't like any of the above. Why don't you like garbage? I bet someone out there does.

It is literally impossible to please everyone. Something out there will receive a percentage point or more hate than something else.

 

[blue]

It's just a matter of opinion, everyone will have different Pokemon they like and dislike. I happen to like four of the five Pokemon that you've listed, then I have Pokemon that I really dislike such as Snorlax, Clefairy, Ursaring etc.

 

[illumine]

Now apply that to literally anything you can think of. Someone out there will hate it. There can be countless reasons.

Except that we're specifically discussing Pokémon where this dislike is concentrated. They aren't the only ones. In any case, you wouldn't apply such dictums to, say, Marx, or anything substantial, so realistically this just seems to amount to saying that you hate all Pokémon.

It's just a matter of opinion, everyone will have different Pokemon they like and dislike.

...But would you therefore agree with someone who was disagreeing with you on this? If not, this just amounts to saying that, 'People have different opinions on this, but some of them are wrong,' in which case that's what people would generally say without needing to pretend to somehow be a social mediator with no opinion at the same time.

 

[VisualJae]

Except that we're specifically discussing Pokémon where this dislike is concentrated. They aren't the only ones. In any case, you wouldn't apply such dictums to, say, Marx, or anything substantial, so realistically this just seems to amount to saying that you hate all Pokémon.

No, I would; and I can find a reason to hate all Pokémon. Whether or not I do is a different story because I can just as easily say I hate one more than the other. On that note, if it's the case of someone hating all Pokémon, it's a realistic scenario. You want to argue hating on an assortment of beliefs or opinions, I would apply the logic the same way. "I find that thought process ridiculous for XYZ reasons, therefore I hate/dislike it." I can totally say that and stand by it. Hating things equally is still possible if you manage to find some kind of system that weighs the value of your preferences.

Some things get hated more for whatever reason than others. My point is that you can dig up anything that comes to mind and someone out there will not like it for whatever reason. I already mentioned as an example. I don't like the color green, therefore no green-colored Pokémon appeals to me. Now you can argue why green is a dislikeable color. Who knows if the majority of people on this planet favors green or not. Throw it on the flipside and ask why groups of people like this other thing so much. Maybe Eeveelutions. Why are some people so obsessed over it? I don't get it (I do get it; this is just an example, and likewise I do get why some people hate it).

You might think the majority of the fanbase hates Garbador or Luvdisc, but do you really know that? People who post on forums or online communities tend to represent the vocal minority. Sure, you can hold a wide-reaching poll, but in the grand scheme of things, it's still a tiny sample size. And if hypothetically you managed to poll every single player on the entire planet who know what a Garbador is, you'll get a plethora of reasons why a portion of them love it, a portion of them hate it, and a portion of them don't give a flying Rattata's ass.

I digress. My TL;DR is still that anyone can legitimately have any reason to hate on anything. Name something and someone out there will hate it.

 

[Sun]

...But would you therefore agree with someone who was disagreeing with you on this? If not, this just amounts to saying that, 'People have different opinions on this, but some of them are wrong,' in which case that's what people would generally say without needing to pretend to somehow be a social mediator with no opinion at the same time.

You are adding unnecessary meanings to his wordings. Basically he just said it's just a matter of personal favorites (which is also my opinion for this thread btw), no more or less about it and it's not about wrong or right either.

 

[illumine]

You are adding unnecessary meanings to his wordings.

No, I'm not. Calm down. If they didn't think that others' opinions were wrong, then they wouldn't have an opinion. I was not paraphrasing them directly, but rather offering a plausible paraphrase if they wished to make sense of that, although it might not perhaps sound nice or innocuous enough to make you repeat it for little reason.

(Post-script: In any case relativism about ethics, truth, or anything that might plausibly come up in a human creation like Pokémon seems unlikely, as you doubt that they were rushed into a sudden bout of nihilism by Pokémon specifically which they are apparently a bit indifferent to, although if Pokémon was spreading mass nihilism by itself then it's perhaps to blame, as indeed were Sum 41 who admittedly mostly just spread Avril Lavigne. It's just a social commonplace if it reaches into authenticity in some manner, which is hence accompanied with a certain species of compulsion in appropriate fora, so to speak.)

 

[Cassandra]

I think at the time people gave these Pokemon a lot of hate because the general attitude towards Pokemon at the time was "All new Pokemon were bad, only old Pokemon are good." That mentality has dissipated drastically, so a lot of the hate is nearly gone, and people have learned to grow up and accept these new Pokemon for what they are. Many people hated Garbodor because it's, well, a pile of trash. But in the context of an extremely urbanized region, it makes perfect sense that Pokemon like Garbodor exist. People gripe on and on about Pokemon like this because they are considered "ugly", but people fail to realize that many Pokemon exist for a reason, such as the aforementioned Garbodor.

As for Vanilluxe, who cares that it's an ice cream cone, it's cute and it's a Pokemon.