• Ever thought it'd be cool to have your art, writing, or challenge runs featured on PokéCommunity? Click here for info - we'd love to spotlight your work!
  • It's time to vote for your favorite Pokémon Battle Revolution protagonist in our new weekly protagonist poll! Click here to cast your vote and let us know which PBR protagonist you like most.
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.
    Register

S&M Fakemon Project [Stage III: Name and Movepool]

What concept do you prefer?

  • Offensive Spiker

    Votes: 10 41.7%

  • Poison-Type Attacker

    Votes: 4 16.7%

  • Improved Rapid Spinner

    Votes: 10 41.7%

  • Other (specify why you don't like the other three)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
If we do make Flish, can we free Garchomp as well? :3

in that post: D_A spends way too much time over something that isn't even virtually real. ?___?
 
D_A, you should add Rapid Spin to Flish's movepool lol, an improved Spinner without Rapid Spin is impossible, isn't it?
 
I had another one but it sucks too lol


Type: Ghost/Rock
Trait: Synchronize/ Solid Rock
HP: 50
Attack: 100
Defense: 125
Special Attack: 90
Special Defense: 80
Speed: 85
BST = 530 (if im wrong correct)

Main idea here is to come in on something like Starmie and other weak special attackers and force a switch, while at the same time being able to beat Rotom kinda. The low HP means that to run a sp. wall set you have to always max its HP and Sp.def, while leaving other options out of the picture. Then theres its rather average physical defense, which leaves it open to things like pursuits and bullet punches from Scizor. I was also thinking that its somewhat good typing could make it a little broken, but idk thats up to you to decide.


EDIT: I swapped the defenses around, just a small note.

 
Last edited:
I don't know, it seems to me like the Fire/Ground mon has been the favorite from the beginning, and as far as I know, no one seriously opposes the idea. I figured I'd throw this possibility out there: We vote on the Fire/Ground on a yea or nay vote, yea being the concept being approve and nay being either an edit of the Fire/Ground mon and at least two more competitors in the next poll. But I don't know how workable this is, as I do want to save time, but I also don't want to rush this. Opinions? (I'll give Thoughts a break from the obligatory mention of how he is a bad user ever time we post "thoughts?" after a proposal.)
 
Well Anti has put the most work into his idea anyway and it's definitely the idea that's drawn the most interest from everyone, so I wouldn't be opposed to a yes or no vote.

If we don't get a solid majority we can always throw in one of the other ideas in another poll.
 
Wolflare said:
LO Starmie's Surf deals ~75% to Solid Rock max HP / SpD +nature (Hydro Pump OHKOs with SR down), and Rapid Spinner variants do ~45% lol. LO still 2HKOs with Surf if it has 125 base SpD, even with sandstorm going.
Click to expand...

I edited it before you posted, I swapped the defenses around as it wasn't looking too...er..not extremely broken?
 
Fire/Ground concept has been approved by a 15-4 vote.

The art is next. While we wait for our spriters to do their thing, it's time to discuss its movepool. I think it's best to start with what it will certainly have. On my list I would have:

- Rapid Spin
- Fire Blast, Overheat, Flamethrower
- Earth Power, Earthquake
- Things nearly everything has (Substitute, Protect, Rest, Toxic, etc.)

Things that should be discussed at least I would assume include:

- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- forms of recovery
- various support options (too many to list, but things like screens & status)

Things we shouldn't give it (imo):

- Will-O-Wisp
- Spikes
- Nasty Plot

Discuss.
 
Anti said:
Fire/Ground concept has been approved by a 15-4 vote.

The art is next. While we wait for our spriters to do their thing, it's time to discuss its movepool. I think it's best to start with what it will certainly have. On my list I would have:

- Rapid Spin
- Fire Blast, Overheat, Flamethrower
- Earth Power, Earthquake
- Things nearly everything has (Substitute, Protect, Rest, Toxic, etc.)

Things that should be discussed at least I would assume include:

- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- forms of recovery
- various support options (too many to list, but things like screens & status)

Things we shouldn't give it (imo):

- Will-O-Wisp
- Spikes
- Nasty Plot

Discuss.
Click to expand...

I think that Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Nasty Plot definitely will detract from the Rapid Spinner concept, so I don't want to see those either. However, I am supportive of Will-O-Wisp as it doesn't really touch spinblockers unless someone decides to use Explosion Gengar or Sucknoir or something like that lol, and also can cripple Physical Jirachi and doesn't remove too many threats to the Fakemon outside of the possibility of Gyarados and non-Sub Kingdra (probably missed a few here lol).

In terms of recovery, one mistake the Smogon CAP project consistently makes with its so called walls is that they have no recovery outside of rest, which really makes them less effective than normal (see Pyroak, who is now more of a sweeper than the original tank it was supposed to be for a good example). That being said, I think that recovery is important for any support Pokemon, especially this Fakemon do to its weaknesses to water and ground (two of the more common moves used in OU) as well as the fact that it has pretty iffy special defense capabilities, and the more common OU spinblockers run special attacks, which makes recovery all the more important.
 
Anti said:
Fire/Ground concept has been approved by a 15-4 vote.

The art is next. While we wait for our spriters to do their thing, it's time to discuss its movepool. I think it's best to start with what it will certainly have. On my list I would have:

- Rapid Spin
- Fire Blast, Overheat, Flamethrower
- Earth Power, Earthquake
- Things nearly everything has (Substitute, Protect, Rest, Toxic, etc.)

Things that should be discussed at least I would assume include:

- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- forms of recovery
- various support options (too many to list, but things like screens & status)

Things we shouldn't give it (imo):

- Will-O-Wisp
- Spikes
- Nasty Plot

Discuss.
Click to expand...

I don't see wynaut (get it) give him Will-O-Wisp, doesn't every Fire-Type learn it? It would seem out of place. Akin to not giving a Ghost-Type Shadow Ball. Its not like it would kill his role, which is apparently spin/support. Forry gets LS (and maybe reflect) but they aren't necessarily used.

Spikes I would make a definate no-no, as well as Nasty Plot.

All the other moves listed I think work fine as well.

Skip Shot said:
I think that Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Nasty Plot definitely will detract from the Rapid Spinner concept, so I don't want to see those either. However, I am supportive of Will-O-Wisp as it doesn't really touch spinblockers unless someone decides to use Explosion Gengar or Sucknoir or something like that lol, and also can cripple Physical Jirachi and doesn't remove too many threats to the Fakemon outside of the possibility of Gyarados and non-Sub Kingdra (probably missed a few here lol).
Click to expand...

The bolded part is what I disagree with. Every single spinner besides Blastoise and Delibird (lol) has access to some sort of entry hazzard. Thats just off the top of my head though. We don't want its sole job to be Enter -> Spin -> Switch Out because then its rather limited in its usefulness and offers little reason to use it to spin over the other spinners available.

I think I might come up with a more comprehensive list of moves it should be able to learn in a few minutes/hours.
 
I found a couple of useful links if you haven't seen them already.

I kind of agree with Gamer though, I don't see the harm in giving it Stealth Rock. Spikes and Toxic Spikes are certainly a no-go, but this is a supporting Pokemon, so Stealth Rock is a nice touch.

I don't want Will-O-Wisp because that limits what can come in on its STABs. Gyarados and Salamence will both be discouraged from coming in, and things like offensive Suicune and even Vaporeon don't like losing their Leftovers recovery (and actually taking damage each turn). And not all Fire-types get Will-O-Wisp, just look at Blaziken, Magcargo, Camerupt, etc. A lot of Pokemon that have Will-O-Wisp used to not have it, like Moltres and Entei. I see no reason to give it such a deadly option. I guess I'm not completely against something like Lava Plume though since the power drop makes up for the burn.

As for recover, I don't see the problem with giving it Recover. Its stats aren't really great for an attacking set (though they're certainly not bad), and it's walled by enough that even if you choose to go that route, it won't be superior to the spinner in most cases. We can always lower its stats in the editing process if we have to.

Explosion is interesting...I don't really see the harm since it's just so weak, but on the other hand, that's just encouraging an offensive use of the Fakemon (probably a Fire Blast/Earth Power/thirdmoveforcoverage/Explosion@Life Orb type of set), so I don't know if it's a good idea.

I think Knock Off would be an interesting addition. I remember back in the DP days when Tangrowth could pull its weight just by knocking off Salamence's Choice Specs or Life Orb. I think it's something to consider just as an interesting little side option of sorts.

I think we should give this Refresh because of Toxic Spikes, which will poison this before it spins stuff away (and Rotom could theoretically try to stall it out by doing that). Given the fact that it will probably have moveslot syndrome anyway, this seems like a harmless addition to me.

Also, I forgot to include priority...will this have any priority moves? I don't really see too much harm, as it could even make it a decent lead in the Starmie tradition (aka it would spin rocks away)...though it probably doesn't need priority to do that. I don't see the point in adding that.

Just some thoughts etc.
 
I'm ok with the Fakemon having priority moves as long as nobody tries to create some Fire-type priority "4 Scizor" (glares at Thoughts).

Seriously, though, priority with a rapid spinner doesn't seem like too much of a problem, since the majority of priority is coming off of the weaker attack stat of the fakemon outside of vacuum wave, which doesn't even get STAB bonus. I don't think that priority will be used too much outside of the possible Shadow Sneak to surprise spinblockers with, but even that won't do to much, barely 3HKOing even Choice Rotom-A with Shadow Sneak.

One move I don't want to see is Calm Mind on this Fakemon. With decent special attack, overall bulk, offensive typing, and speed, the Fakemon can use one Calm Mind and begin to sweep through teams, which is what we don't want it to do. I want the Fakemon to remain completely a support Pokemon, and really not go far outside of that, because going outside of that will just turn the Fakemon more towards offensively-oriented.
 
Aww I was actually looking forward to using this as a Calm Mind/NP Sweeper. =(

WoW is already annoying enough on Rotom, putting it on this will make it that much harder for something to switch in and drive it out. And I'd love for this to have recovery, many walls suffer without it and I want it to be able to do its job well.

Explosion. Knock Off and Refresh all sound fine. And if we give it priority, the question becomes what priority do we give it? Physical will be lackluster due to its pretty low attack, also no priority attack can give it STAB, and everything on the special side of priority is pretty weak. I guess we can discuss Vacuum Wave but I'm not sure it'll be of much use.
 
Maybe we could give it Pain Split over Recover? That way its not going to just sit there and take hits all day, but its not going to just be death fodder either? I mean, we don't want this to have ALL the good qualities that mons have. Thats a big mistake that CAP makes.
 
Honestly, this thing needs Recover. It has mediocre special defensive capabilities, so if it wants to be able to stand up to things like Gengar and Rotom, it needs that recovery. Pain Split won't guarantee that good instant recovery that this Fakemon needs. Also the weaknesses to two of the most common attacking move types in the metagame further screams for the use of Recover imo.
 
It also has fairly decent HP so Pain Split won't be as beneficial to it as it is on something like Rotom =(
 
Okay, here's my crack at a movepool I guess lol. Obviously subject to change given peer edits and potential contradictions from the art design.

TM/HM List:

* TM01 - Focus Punch
* TM02 - Dragon Claw
* TM05 - Roar
* TM06 - Toxic
* TM10 - Hidden Power
* TM11 - Sunny Day
* TM12 - Taunt
* TM15 - Hyper Beam
* TM17 - Protect
* TM20 - Safeguard
* TM21 - Frustration
* TM22 - SolarBeam
* TM23 - Iron Tail
* TM26 - Earthquake
* TM27 - Return
* TM28 - Dig
* TM31 - Brick Break
* TM32 - Double Team
* TM35 - Flamethrower
* TM37 - Sandstorm
* TM38 - Fire Blast
* TM39 - Rock Tomb
* TM41 - Torment
* TM42 - Facade
* TM43 - Secret Power
* TM44 - Rest
* TM45 - Attract
* TM46 - Thief
* TM50 - Overheat
* TM52 - Focus Blast
* TM54 - False Swipe
* TM56 - Fling
* TM58 - Endure
* TM59 - Dragon Pulse
* TM60 - Drain Punch
* TM61 - Will-o-wisp
* TM65 - Shadow Claw
* TM66 - Payback
* TM67 - Recycle
* TM68 - Giga Impact
* TM69 - Rock Polish
* TM71 - Stone Edge
* TM72 - Avalanche
* TM76 - Stealth Rock
* TM78 - Captivate
* TM79 - Dark Pulse
* TM80 - Rock Slide
* TM82 - Sleep Talk
* TM87 - Swagger
* TM90 - Substitute
* TM92 - Trick Room
* HM01 - Cut
* HM04 - Strength
* HM06 - Rock Smash
* HM08 - Rock Climb

Level-Up List:

1. Ember
1. Sand Attack
1. Fire Spin
6. Sand Tomb
10. Focus Energy
14. Flame Wheel
20. Sunny Day
25. Recover
32. Rock Slide
39. Acid Armor
46. Fire Blast
54. Earthquake
61. Endure
69. Flail

Egg Move List:

- Magnitude
- Heat Wave
- Bullet Punch
- Trick
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Spit Up



Kind of unsure about lots of stuff, so fee free to tear apart...
 
Move Tutor moves:

Rollout
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Ancientpower
Earth Power
Super Fang (Depending on appearance)? not sure about this one
Heat Wave
Knock Off
Swift
Uproar
Synthesis
Headbutt
Gastro Acid*
Gunk Shot*






I also think we should include Magnitude, even though its next to useless in competitive play, most ground type pokemon learn it via level up, and I don't see how it could hurt.



*Depending on design.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top