Should Ash Ketchum & other characters in the Anime, grow older?

[Famon]

I won't reply to your Misty-related posts about the gym or canon because DBZ Fan already took care of most of your arguments anyways (besides, the site logged me out before I could even reply by the time I did try). I will take care of the rest, though.

Fine then , I won't ether!!!

That's actually one of the reasons why I felt Dawn's inclusion was just pointless.

Dawn Inclusion improve Animes rating but writers Trip-love ruined BW Series again.

1. Pokémon Breeders have been established to care about a Pokémon's medical needs since the Original Series, so there's nothing new there.

2. You might have a point with DP, but hints mean absolutely nothing if there isn't explicit confirmation.

Pokemon breeder establish as someone who finds the best way to raise pokemon ! Not just medical care.
But Prof Oak mainly commented about Brock talent as a Doctor! I realize back then that Brock is going to quit breeding .
All I need was confirmation and I got it 4 year later.

Actually, she decided on becoming a Pokémon Coordinator the same time Ash challenged Roxanne.

This is what happen when you argue with someone who never watch AG Series.
May decided on Contest when she saw one for the 1st time !
Truth is , She never planned to challenge Gym ! It was her brother who pampered her to challenge Gym .
May simply wanted to travel and use pokemon as excuse.
May announced her goal to other during Rozanne Gym!

Fine: Here's the source about it taking months in advance to write the episodes: https://www.pokebeach.com/2008/07/s...with-masamitsu-hidaka-many-interesting-points

And I know there was a leaked AG Poster on BMGf that was present around the time of Master Quest, I think it appeared during the Whirl Cup.

Have you read it yourself ? Because it say nothing about Ash & May challenging Gym Together.
It just mention that Contest isn't Misty's thing and she will only appear to battle Ash or for some other reason.

Unless they have her reappearing around the same time Dawn reappeared, while I don't disagree that Iris has more of a chance of her appearing, that boat's already sailed (since Misty and May both appeared before the fourth gym).

The Boat haven't sailed since Dawn appeared after seventh Gym ! I won't be surprise if Iris appear during post-league ark .

Ask Bulbapedia: They made it pretty clear in the trivia section for the episode that it was VERY similar to Pokémon Contests.

Bulbaedia edited by people like you & me ! So obviously it was the editor who was wrong .

Then why did Jessie and the MC, respectively, say "You mean this isn't just a beauty contest?" and "Oh no! The Queen of the Princess Festival Winner must also be a skilled Pokémon Trainer!"? They wouldn't have used "just" and "also" regarding those things if the pageant DIDN'T play any role in the contest beyond presenting the participants.

It just prove my point ! Both Misty & Jessie mistook it as a Beauty contest when it was a battle Tournament .

Not really, since it dealt with Buizel. And besides, that still doesn't explain the bit about him focusing on his friends in one episode of BW even when it wasn't really necessary.

It gave a reason for Ash & Dawn to fight while Zoey make an entrance! Also , It also showed that the Anime haven't forgotten Misty.

And based on what he said in the interview, the director after him is continuing that bit.

Unless , It doesn't work anymore and the Production need something new !

Are you sure it's September? I'm pretty sure the movie's going to be released in late July, meaning at best, they've got until August. As far as DP, is that between his seventh and eighth badge? Besides, we've already got an image of Wulfric in the Anime, which means we are going to see him very soon. It's even on this site, this Anime forum, even, definitely it will take less time than DP either way.

According to a Special calendar , Puni-chan tag alone with the group until September ! It was those calendar that shows upcoming pokemon in Anime.

Didn't stop the Anime from completely skipping over the World Conference despite it playing a fairly major role in Black 2 and White 2, or their delaying in having Team Flare appearing in the main anime until right now. Heck, they had remakes of Gold and Silver in Generation II, yet did the Anime have Ash revisit Johto for instance? NO!, and it didn't even have Ash challenging the Battle Frontier in Platinum either (not to mention DP outright ignored story developments made by Platinum, even AFTER Platinum was released, as Cyrus STILL went for the Dia and Pal without Gira even playing a role in the event). There have been PLENTY of instances where the Anime outright ignores the games, so don't think that just because there will be a third version, that means the anime will do the third version. And Pokémon Emerald's plot line was largely ignored in AG, with it even finishing up in a similar vein to Pokémon Sapphire.

The Anime brought Lyra for HGSS promotion , combine FRLG and Platinum during Battle Frontier ark , Add "World Tournament" before Junior Cup and combine storyline from BW & B2W2 in Team plasma ark .
Ya , Most of those idea sucked but The anime has stupid writers who can't accept Ash as a main protagonist and favor other character over him.
This whole thing started with Drew , Writer completely turn pokemon into a Shoujo anime with May as the protagonist and Drew as her charming prince while Ash is the side character who sometime get spotlight.
Sometime I think that Tomioka hate Ash because he couldn't finish the "Love-Story" of May & Drew so he venting his anger on Ash during BW and XY series.

Even still, that DOESN'T mean the anime's going to continue on with it.

It mean Anime will Continue on it ! But they will try different story .

Actually, according to Dogasu, the recent Hoopa movie made even LESS than Pokémon Heroes, which until now had the lowest box office receipt of ALL the Pokémon movies, yes, that even includes the AG movies:



Also, when discussing the development of the Hoopa movie a while back, back before it was released, Dogasu revealed that Sonoda, the guy who did all the Pokémon Movies since Pokémon 4Ever, was replaced for the film, and even implied that it had to do with the Diancie movie being a flop:



https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/old_news_archive/january_2015.html

Also, it didn't even make top 10 by the end of its eighth-week showing, and in fact descended to tenth place by the very last week, making eighth place three weeks beforehand.

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/old_news_archive/september_2014.html

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/movi...ie/cocoon_destruction_diancie.html#Box_Office

This make me doubt Atoshiou Tomioka's writing ability !
Considering he's the guy who disapprove Advanceshipping and made Contestshipping near canon ! Even though he had no problem in Ash losing Unova League to an idiot Or Ash dumping Goodra or Ash not getting a Keystone.
It seem Atsuhiro Tomioka has problem with anything good for Ash and approve anything bad for him ! No wonder , All the movie he written were a disappointment. Plus , People probably lose interest in the new movie when they see Ash with no Mega-ring.
Hack , I'm fearing that Tomioka might shove Serena on Ash because she is his favorite girl from the game.
However , I guess OLM just need a better movie writer and give Ash a Mega ring to improve Box-office.
For example : A movie based on Delta episode where May invite Ash to watch the meteor shower at Mossdeep city but they get themselves involve with Zinnia and an asteroid that about to hit earth.
After all , Yugioh and Digimon brought back their old protagonist ! Pokemon atleast can bring back all Ash's former traveling companion for a major movie or ark.

Yes, but that DOESN'T mean that the Anime will do it. In fact, it's quite a bit late for them to be focusing on it.

It haven't been late since we haven't since Perfect Zygarde yet ! It not late yet.

They'll only pull a B2W2-style sequel if they have three versions of the sequel at the very least to make up for Zygarde's five forms. More likely than not, since it has remakes, it's going to be a third version. And again, there being a third version for the games is no guarantee that the games will do the same.

Zygarde form pretty much proves there going to be a thrid version that explain how to get a perfect Zygarde.

I'd personally bank with Ash, Misty, and Brock there. But I do think there needs to be some aging to show he is indeed learning things, make things a bit more probable.

Honestly , I prefer if Pokemon never has a main gang.
Instate , The series will shown from various characters prospective.
How I put this ? You know How "Digimon" and "One Piece" shown from various character prospective.
I want the same for Pokemon.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Dawn Inclusion improve Animes rating but writers Trip-love ruined BW Series again.

Quite frankly, it was stupid to even include her specifically because she had no business in the region. Doesn't matter if it increased ratings.

Pokemon breeder establish as someone who finds the best way to raise pokemon ! Not just medical care.
But Prof Oak mainly commented about Brock talent as a Doctor! I realize back then that Brock is going to quit breeding .
All I need was confirmation and I got it 4 year later.

Fine, but then again, they also strongly implied that Ash would in fact win the Sinnoh League, and look where THAT went?

This is what happen when you argue with someone who never watch AG Series.
May decided on Contest when she saw one for the 1st time !
Truth is , She never planned to challenge Gym ! It was her brother who pampered her to challenge Gym .
May simply wanted to travel and use pokemon as excuse.
May announced her goal to other during Rozanne Gym!

Fine, I stand corrected regarding when she found the Pokémon Contest. Still, I really don't see why she even bothered doing Pokémon travelling at all. And it's not like she even NEEDED to be a trainer of any sort anyway.

Have you read it yourself ? Because it say nothing about Ash & May challenging Gym Together.
It just mention that Contest isn't Misty's thing and she will only appear to battle Ash or for some other reason.

I didn't even say that the interview mentioned they planned on doing gyms together (and as noted above, I made a mistake), just that the interview mentioned that episodes are written months in advance.

The Boat haven't sailed since Dawn appeared after seventh Gym ! I won't be surprise if Iris appear during post-league ark .

Actually, Dawn appeared after the Eighth gym. And I acknowledged that's a possibility.

Bulbaedia edited by people like you & me ! So obviously it was the editor who was wrong .

Except you need to register in order to even edit, not to mention even if you are registered, you are extremely limited in what you can do (for example, you can't actually create new articles and have to depend on one of the mods to eventually write it, nor can you even upload images. I know that from experience regarding Movie 19), so it's unlikely they were wrong.

It just prove my point ! Both Misty & Jessie mistook it as a Beauty contest when it was a battle Tournament .

No, actually, it doesn't prove your point at all. If it proved your point, the phraseology would instead say "You mean this isn't a beauty contest?" "Oh no! The Queen of the Princess Festival must be a skilled Pokémon Trainer!" without the words "Just" and "Also" being omitted altogether. The words "just" and "also" in those contexts would strongly suggest they are actually a PART of it, not separate. I may be autistic, but I do know some things about conversations, and I most certainly know that if I and someone else were going to say something was something else with no tie-ins, we DON'T say something's "not just something, but also something else."

It gave a reason for Ash & Dawn to fight while Zoey make an entrance! Also , It also showed that the Anime haven't forgotten Misty.

I'll agree regarding not forgetting Misty, but they could come up with another reason anyways.

Unless , It doesn't work anymore and the Production need something new !

Maybe, but considering they actually botched their chance at having Ash win a league in Sinnoh, I doubt they did consider that.

According to a Special calendar , Puni-chan tag alone with the group until September ! It was those calendar that shows upcoming pokemon in Anime.

Care to show the calendar? Really, I need to know.

The Anime brought Lyra for HGSS promotion , combine FRLG and Platinum during Battle Frontier ark , Add "World Tournament" before Junior Cup and combine storyline from BW & B2W2 in Team plasma ark .

I was thinking more of them actually GOING to Johto after Sinnoh, but I see your point regarding Lyra. I did mention FRLG and Emerald, though, yet Platinum's storyline wasn't used at all, even AFTER release (I can understand before it's release, though). And no, the World Conference wasn't even used for the anime at all. It did have the Junior Cup, but it's not the same thing as, you know, actually HAVING Ash face off against several past Gym Leaders, including Misty. I'll give you BW and B2W2.

Ya , Most of those idea sucked but The anime has stupid writers who can't accept Ash as a main protagonist and favor other character over him.
This whole thing started with Drew , Writer completely turn pokemon into a Shoujo anime with May as the protagonist and Drew as her charming prince while Ash is the side character who sometime get spotlight.
Sometime I think that Tomioka hate Ash because he couldn't finish the "Love-Story" of May & Drew so he venting his anger on Ash during BW and XY series.

You know, I think you may have a point there, even though I don't particularly care for Advanceshipping at all. There really was no excuse to have Ash stay at Top 8, especially when the entire POINT behind a league is to either win or at the very LEAST get a far better rank than before to demonstrate Rocky Balboa style that you've done better than before.

It mean Anime will Continue on it ! But they will try different story .

Actually, it really doesn't mean that. Don't forget, Mario had a couple of shows that acted as adaptations of the first four games (well, okay, technically the second game through Super Mario World, but the first show mixed elements of both 1 and 2). However, the shows ended with Super Mario World, yet the Mario franchise itself continued without them. I can also cite SATAM, the Zelda show, and the Mega Man show and their respective franchises as well, and those shows lasted even LESS than Mario's, yet their franchises still continued (well, Sonic and Zelda, certainly: Mega Man's in the gray area since other than his inclusion in Super Smash Bros 4, he hasn't gotten a new game, and his Archie Comics series is entering hiatus). It's probably going to be the exact same situation right here, especially given the horrid ratings Pokémon's got right now.

This make me doubt Atoshiou Tomioka's writing ability !
Considering he's the guy who disapprove Advanceshipping and made Contestshipping near canon ! Even though he had no problem in Ash losing Unova League to an idiot Or Ash dumping Goodra or Ash not getting a Keystone.

Advanceshipping aside (as even before Drew's debut, there was little to suggest they were even an item. At least with Misty, both had them being jealous of another person that could arguably act as a reason for them to have feelings beyond friendship for each other, and Serena does at least have a one-sided crush...), I'm beginning to agree. This is still Ash's show, so he really DOES need to improve instead of being made to look bad.

It seem Atsuhiro Tomioka has problem with anything good for Ash and approve anything bad for him ! No wonder , All the movie he written were a disappointment. Plus , People probably lose interest in the new movie when they see Ash with no Mega-ring.

Yeah. The movies since AG may have performed fairly badly, but they certainly haven't performed so badly until now that even Pokémon Heroes did better than it. The Anime's ship is sinking.

Hack , I'm fearing that Tomioka might shove Serena on Ash because she is his favorite girl from the game.
However , I guess OLM just need a better movie writer and give Ash a Mega ring to improve Box-office.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that: Movie 19 is confirmed to have Tomioka writing again. Maybe the movie after it, assuming there will even BE a movie after this.

For example : A movie based on Delta episode where May invite Ash to watch the meteor shower at Mossdeep city but they get themselves involve with Zinnia and an asteroid that about to hit earth.
After all , Yugioh and Digimon brought back their old protagonist ! Pokemon atleast can bring back all Ash's former traveling companion for a major movie or ark.

Well, at least it ties into the games. Speaking of bringing back old protagonists, though, I discovered something interesting on Tumblr. Apparently, some Pokémon-related toys by amiami are being created and sold to the public. Jessie, James, Meowth, Wobbuffet, Ash, Pikachu, Charmander, Misty, Psyduck, and Togepi, more specifically:

https://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/134139642227/suift-duroo-dude

https://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/134147828917/hoshiiyashop-these-new-pokemon-figures-were-on

Team Rocket doesn't really allude to much, as, Best Wishes aside, they're the only characters who DON'T get a costume change every series (not to mention Meowth and Wobbuffet are the only mainstays for the group), but Ash and Misty's figurines being released are very interesting information, especially Misty's. First of all, when the anime's most likely focusing on new characters right now, I find it very interesting that they'd actually focus on something on the original series in the line up, and in the case of Ash, even early Kanto due to Charmander's presence. Second of all, since they're in the prototype stage already, and the Autumn Festival indicated they would be released in 2016, that in itself poses very interesting implications for a possible return from Misty. We know it can't be promoting the Anime's 20th Anniversary, as that doesn't even happen until 2017, a year AFTER release.

It haven't been late since we haven't since Perfect Zygarde yet ! It not late yet.

Even still, we've got Wulfric coming up, and after him is the Kalos League, so we've probably got little time as it is.

Zygarde form pretty much proves there going to be a thrid version that explain how to get a perfect Zygarde.

Maybe, but we've still got at best a month and a half to go to Wulfric, and it doesn't help that there's already an advert scan on here anyhow.

Honestly , I prefer if Pokemon never has a main gang.
Instate , The series will shown from various characters prospective.
How I put this ? You know How "Digimon" and "One Piece" shown from various character prospective.
I want the same for Pokemon.

Not a big fan of Digimon, and I really haven't watched One Piece. But I think I've got a good idea. Like Sonic Adventure?

Anyways, I still maintain they should have Ash actually age, since it makes his journey a bit more plausible.

 

[Famon]

Didn't you said that you won't comment on my Misty-related post !!!1

Quite frankly, it was stupid to even include her specifically because she had no business in the region. Doesn't matter if it increased ratings.

You yourself said how increasing rating is important ? Also , Misty returning was unimportant as well.

Fine, but then again, they also strongly implied that Ash would in fact win the Sinnoh League, and look where THAT went?

It wasn't implied ! People just had more hope in Sinnoh league.

Fine, I stand corrected regarding when she found the Pokémon Contest. Still, I really don't see why she even bothered doing Pokémon travelling at all. And it's not like she even NEEDED to be a trainer of any sort anyway.

In the world of pokemon , A trainer can't travel without a Pokemon!
May herself mention how she wanted to travel and needed a pokemon as a excuse.

Actually, Dawn appeared after the Eighth gym. And I acknowledged that's a possibility.

Then Iris had more chance of appearing ! Since former girl appearing to meet the new girl is a tradition of pokemon anime.

Except you need to register in order to even edit, not to mention even if you are registered, you are extremely limited in what you can do (for example, you can't actually create new articles and have to depend on one of the mods to eventually write it, nor can you even upload images. I know that from experience regarding Movie 19), so it's unlikely they were wrong.

Piece of Advise , Read the entire thing-

Spoiler:

From Bulbapedia
Some fans consider this competition a forerunner of Pokémon Contests. However, it focused entirely on aspects of breeding, rather than the flashy displays which distinguish Contests from other types of competitions.

In other word , Its just some fans preference.

No, actually, it doesn't prove your point at all. If it proved your point, the phraseology would instead say "You mean this isn't a beauty contest?" "Oh no! The Queen of the Princess Festival must be a skilled Pokémon Trainer!" without the words "Just" and "Also" being omitted altogether. The words "just" and "also" in those contexts would strongly suggest they are actually a PART of it, not separate. I may be autistic, but I do know some things about conversations, and I most certainly know that if I and someone else were going to say something was something else with no tie-ins, we DON'T say something's "not just something, but also something else."

Or , Its might be just a pattern of speech ! or dubbing error .
Because that beauty pageant did nothing but showing off the participant .

I'll agree regarding not forgetting Misty, but they could come up with another reason anyways.

Showing off Misty Lure is better choice ! It shows that Ash remember her and use her gift for fishing.

Maybe, but considering they actually botched their chance at having Ash win a league in Sinnoh, I doubt they did consider that.

Now that "Older fan leaving and Newer Fan coming" theory not working for them , They need to consider Ash winning the league.

Care to show the calendar? Really, I need to know.

https://good7luck.tumblr.com/post/132657652575/pokemon-2016-calendar-i-tried-to-edit-some

I was thinking more of them actually GOING to Johto after Sinnoh, but I see your point regarding Lyra. I did mention FRLG and Emerald, though, yet Platinum's storyline wasn't used at all, even AFTER release (I can understand before it's release, though). And no, the World Conference wasn't even used for the anime at all. It did have the Junior Cup, but it's not the same thing as, you know, actually HAVING Ash face off against several past Gym Leaders, including Misty. I'll give you BW and B2W2.

Platinum promotion was done by the movie that featured Giratina !
How do the anime show World Tournament when Writers has no intention of letting Ash enter ?

Actually, it really doesn't mean that. Don't forget, Mario had a couple of shows that acted as adaptations of the first four games (well, okay, technically the second game through Super Mario World, but the first show mixed elements of both 1 and 2). However, the shows ended with Super Mario World, yet the Mario franchise itself continued without them. I can also cite SATAM, the Zelda show, and the Mega Man show and their respective franchises as well, and those shows lasted even LESS than Mario's, yet their franchises still continued (well, Sonic and Zelda, certainly: Mega Man's in the gray area since other than his inclusion in Super Smash Bros 4, he hasn't gotten a new game, and his Archie Comics series is entering hiatus). It's probably going to be the exact same situation right here, especially given the horrid ratings Pokémon's got right now.

Pokemon still get 4.0 to 5.0 point which consider to be a good rating !
Pokemon will be on danger when it can no longer get more then 0.0 to 1.1 rating.
Even Fairy Tail is alive despite getting lower rating then Pokemon.

Advanceshipping aside (as even before Drew's debut, there was little to suggest they were even an item. At least with Misty, both had them being jealous of another person that could arguably act as a reason for them to have feelings beyond friendship for each other, and Serena does at least have a one-sided crush...), I'm beginning to agree. This is still Ash's show, so he really DOES need to improve instead of being made to look bad.

Advanceshipping actually has most shippy scene then any other Shipping ! Honestly I thought May grown a crush when she shout "Yes" after Ash agree to travel with her.

Yeah. The movies since AG may have performed fairly badly, but they certainly haven't performed so badly until now that even Pokémon Heroes did better than it. The Anime's ship is sinking.

Actually movies from AG & BW Series did really good business and one of AG Movies was about to receive an award as well.
Its the XY Movies that has bad Box office performance! It could be because Ash not receiving his mega ring or Tomioka being a lousy movie writer.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that: Movie 19 is confirmed to have Tomioka writing again. Maybe the movie after it, assuming there will even BE a movie after this.

Well , if this movie fails then Tomioka career as a head writer might end with it.

Well, at least it ties into the games. Speaking of bringing back old protagonists, though, I discovered something interesting on Tumblr. Apparently, some Pokémon-related toys by amiami are being created and sold to the public. Jessie, James, Meowth, Wobbuffet, Ash, Pikachu, Charmander, Misty, Psyduck, and Togepi, more specifically:

https://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/134139642227/suift-duroo-dude

https://allthingsmisty.tumblr.com/post/134147828917/hoshiiyashop-these-new-pokemon-figures-were-on

Team Rocket doesn't really allude to much, as, Best Wishes aside, they're the only characters who DON'T get a costume change every series (not to mention Meowth and Wobbuffet are the only mainstays for the group), but Ash and Misty's figurines being released are very interesting information, especially Misty's. First of all, when the anime's most likely focusing on new characters right now, I find it very interesting that they'd actually focus on something on the original series in the line up, and in the case of Ash, even early Kanto due to Charmander's presence. Second of all, since they're in the prototype stage already, and the Autumn Festival indicated they would be released in 2016, that in itself poses very interesting implications for a possible return from Misty. We know it can't be promoting the Anime's 20th Anniversary, as that doesn't even happen until 2017, a year AFTER release.

Its nothing Special ! There are a lot figuring of older character out there.
Misty might just appear in flashback.

Even still, we've got Wulfric coming up, and after him is the Kalos League, so we've probably got little time as it is.
Maybe, but we've still got at best a month and a half to go to Wulfric, and it doesn't help that there's already an advert scan on here anyhow.

Are you sure Ash going to battle Wulfric ? He didn't battled Drayden in BW series!
Megevolution Special Act01 start a battle between Mega Abomasnow and Mega Gyarados which make me believe that Wulfric will be involve in the Team Flare ark where he will battle Lysandre.

Not a big fan of Digimon, and I really haven't watched One Piece. But I think I've got a good idea. Like Sonic Adventure?

Or Bakugun & Fairy tail .
If we take all the character in Fairy tail view then Misty would be Erza , May would be Lucy and Ash would be Natsu.
Digimon is better then pokemon when it come to anime !

Anyways, I still maintain they should have Ash actually age, since it makes his journey a bit more plausible.

Ash getting older while May becoming permanent heroin of Pokemon.
After all , May is the 1st female protagonist of Pokemon since she's the 1st one to have her own side-quest.
Ash can represent the male playable character while May represent the female playable character as one seek strength while another seek Beauty.
Seriously , Tomioka really is an idiot for handing May to Drew since she the best heroin the anime could afford! No wonder all his movie sucks.
Since She the only one beside Misty to see Ash at his best or Worst behavior and handled him.
Misty simply is the "Bulma" (DBZ) or "Gwen" (Ben 10) of Pokemon anime! They necessarily doesn't has to be with the Protagonist

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Didn't you said that you won't comment on my Misty-related post !!!1

Yes, and I kept my word. I said I wouldn't respond regarding your points regarding Misty and Gyms. The only one I responded to was Contests and the Princess Festival.

You yourself said how increasing rating is important ? Also , Misty returning was unimportant as well.

Misty at least wasn't hampered to a goal she was supposed to be achieving (not that she had much choice, though), while Dawn WAS. Though, fine, point taken regarding ratings.

It wasn't implied ! People just had more hope in Sinnoh league.

Didn't they have a montage of who Ash needs to face regarding the Elite 4 and then the Champion Master when talking about the Elite 4 or something? That sounded very much like a hint. Not to mention they didn't even give ANY information about Ash heading for Best Wishes, with even the Sunday Show basically commenting on his absence during the leadup, which suggests they DID intend to have Ash win initially, but changed at the last minute (most likely because of their wasting time in Sinnoh).

In the world of pokemon , A trainer can't travel without a Pokemon!
May herself mention how she wanted to travel and needed a pokemon as a excuse.

Who said she needed to be a trainer? And there were plenty of characters who travelled without Pokémon. Or do I have to remind you that Daisy, Lily, and Violet when they went on that cruise didn't even bring any Pokémon with them, or how Lola and Flint when they took a flight didn't even bring any Pokémon with them.

Then Iris had more chance of appearing ! Since former girl appearing to meet the new girl is a tradition of pokemon anime.

Traditions can be broken. Remember, it was also a tradition that Ash always gets the Grass Starter, yet they broke that in XY. It was also a tradition that Ash get all three starters, yet AG broke that before it was temporarily brought back in Best Wishes. It was also a tradition that Brock be the only character to continue to travel with Ash. Best Wishes broke that tradition permanently.

Piece of Advise , Read the entire thing-

Spoiler:

From Bulbapedia
Some fans consider this competition a forerunner of Pokémon Contests. However, it focused entirely on aspects of breeding, rather than the flashy displays which distinguish Contests from other types of competitions.

In other word , Its just some fans preference.

Too bad it still got included.

Or , Its might be just a pattern of speech ! or dubbing error .
Because that beauty pageant did nothing but showing off the participant .

Or it did, but it was offscreen.

And it definitely wasn't a dubbing error. Otherwise, Dogasu would have mentioned it on there especially when he has recently done a comparison of the episode. And for the record, words and phrases have meaning, so please don't infer they don't really mean anything.

Now that "Older fan leaving and Newer Fan coming" theory not working for them , They need to consider Ash winning the league.

Yeah, they really need to, especially to make up for the mess that was Best Wishes.

https://good7luck.tumblr.com/post/132657652575/pokemon-2016-calendar-i-tried-to-edit-some

Okay, I've read it, but since it just details two months per page, we can't say definitively that it will leave by September. At best, we can say that's the latest it will leave. It could leave by August for all we can tell.

Platinum promotion was done by the movie that featured Giratina !

Are you entirely sure that was meant to promote Platinum? Based on what Masamitsu Hidaka stated when asked about them in the interview, he didn't even know about Arceus or Shaymin despite their already having been unveiled by CoroCoro by that time, so I really wouldn't put much stock on that.

How do the anime show World Tournament when Writers has no intention of letting Ash enter ?

Just mention it, heck, even show a TV screen mentioning it. Besides, Pokémon Contests were shown, yet Ash only entered one.

Pokemon still get 4.0 to 5.0 point which consider to be a good rating !
Pokemon will be on danger when it can no longer get more then 0.0 to 1.1 rating.
Even Fairy Tail is alive despite getting lower rating then Pokemon.
Advanceshipping actually has most shippy scene then any other Shipping ! Honestly I thought May grown a crush when she shout "Yes" after Ash agree to travel with her.

Actually, Pokémon's not even getting 4.0, it's more like 3.0 at best. And besides, I remember hearing that when May and Ash denied being a couple, they didn't blush, which is usually confirmation that aren't one.

Actually movies from AG & BW Series did really good business and one of AG Movies was about to receive an award as well.
Its the XY Movies that has bad Box office performance! It could be because Ash not receiving his mega ring or Tomioka being a lousy movie writer.

They didn't get the box office receipts of the first movie, 2000, or the Entei movie, though. Unless they reach that much if not surpass it, then it's a bomb. Not to mention Zoroark was the last movie to be part of the top 10 until... what? The Kyurem movie? The Genesect movie certainly? And it didn't even last.

Well , if this movie fails then Tomioka career as a head writer might end with it.

That I agree. Not to mention it will probably end the Movie franchise as well.

Its nothing Special ! There are a lot figuring of older character out there.
Misty might just appear in flashback.

I wouldn't be too certain about that. They generally place focus on the newer generation, and the older generation barely even gets marketed. Though if I'm wrong and they do lots of figures of older characters, feel free to prove it.

Are you sure Ash going to battle Wulfric ? He didn't battled Drayden in BW series!
Megevolution Special Act01 start a battle between Mega Abomasnow and Mega Gyarados which make me believe that Wulfric will be involve in the Team Flare ark where he will battle Lysandre.

Yes, I'm pretty sure, especially considering that a scan is up where Wulfric and Freninja are present. I think it's on the Episode Announcements thread, either that or one of the topics on the Episode discussion forum.

Ash getting older while May becoming permanent heroin of Pokemon.
After all , May is the 1st female protagonist of Pokemon since she's the 1st one to have her own side-quest.
Ash can represent the male playable character while May represent the female playable character as one seek strength while another seek Beauty.
Seriously , Tomioka really is an idiot for handing May to Drew since she the best heroin the anime could afford! No wonder all his movie sucks.
Since She the only one beside Misty to see Ash at his best or Worst behavior and handled him.
Misty simply is the "Bulma" (DBZ) or "Gwen" (Ben 10) of Pokemon anime! They necessarily doesn't has to be with the Protagonist

Actually, no, Misty was the first (Whirl Cup and her overall goal of becoming a Water Pokémon Master, remember?). May is second at best.

Also, if they cared about player representation, they would have replaced Ash with Brendan, or heck, even better, have Brendan replace Brock. At least THAT would ensure both player characters get a shot.

Also, Misty's not the Bulma of the anime. If anything, she's more like the Chi-Chi of the anime. And another thing, unlike Bulma, Misty NEVER attempted to abandon Ash to save her own skin, not even once (far from it, she more often than not actually attempted to save Ash even if it meant she got killed in the process. Case in point: The Samurai episode. After encountering the titular character, and then remembering Ash was from Pallet Town when Samurai left, even though she knew Samurai was armed, she ran back to Ash and tried to save him from potentially being killed by Samurai. This was way back in the fourth episode of the series, and her third episode since she joined Ash.).

I will agree with you on one thing, though, they definitely need to have Ash age.

 

[DBZ fan]

I don't care what DBZ Fan says ! I don't even read his post.
My beef is with you , not with him .
I have no interest arguing with 2 people at once.

Sorry to hear, because if you never read posts you cannot know why people disagree with you regarding Misty age despite anime confirming to be 10.
What was real reason behind her stay at gym running it because she dont want to see it closed down but also herself reveakling how its out of obligation and wouldn't be running it if there was somreone else to take on duties expressing desire to travel again. Because unklike Gary and Brock; Misty never changed her dream of wishing to become water pokemon master or interesting in reaching E4 member status.

How in many aspects Misty situation was similar to Brock who also put his goal on hold to take care of gym. Or how whatever was established in anime canon during mr. Shudio era does't suddenly disappears stopping to matter just because new writers are in charge. That is as long future story arcs and plots dont contradict and cancel out what was established earlier in pokemon show.

Missing on some important and crucial indications, facts and moments in this anime which support what me and Weedle were saying regarding Misty situation and gym being in reality complicated and not as black and white as some would think. Based on Misty dialogue, expressions and way writers left her future undefined.

You yourself said how increasing rating is important ? Also , Misty returning was unimportant as well.

Its not even comparable. Unlike Dawn return in Unova , Misty return during Hoenn focused on her own story giving her character development in evolving Togepi and releasing it. As well Misty herself realizing whats best for her pokemon in longer run closing down one chapter of her storyline.
Not to mention promoting pokemon we never seen until than in anime(Togetic).

With Misty return we saw update, new clothes, new pokemon in her team she acquired giving us info on what has been happening with her ever since she left main cast. Alongside helping Max to reconcile with May during her second return teaching him about importance of siblings and being there for each other.
Delivering lot of continuity, charm , lively dynamic and substance to storyline through her presence helping save the day in defeating villain.

With Dawn we got none of that, No new captures, no new outfit, no report on what happened with her journey in Hoenn and how well she did at contests. No mentions of her rivals, no character development and no help in pushing main characters storyline. Since she was just used unfortunately as canon fodder for Iris Dragonite when toying earound with her Mamoswine continuing on with disobedience until Ash finally managed to stop his rampage.

So yes i have to say Dawn return had far less importance in there.

Well, at least it ties into the games. Speaking of bringing back old protagonists, though, I discovered something interesting on Tumblr. Apparently, some Pokémon-related toys by amiami are being created and sold to the public. Jessie, James, Meowth, Wobbuffet, Ash, Pikachu, Charmander, Misty, Psyduck, and Togepi, more specifically:
.

Pokemon anime should follow examples of other old franchise such as Dragon ball, Yugioh, Digimon etc, In paying respect to their own roots, revisiting iconic heavily liked main characters and building on future through their updated stories, new fresh changes happening tzo them and their lives not ignoring its identity and those who made some anime and story in first place.

Their unexpected return(like Misty for example) becoming prominent again, delivering updates and follow up on what has been happening for all this time intertwining them in new storylines pushing adventure forward definitely has potential to attract older fans back, spark interest among younger generations for such characters . Due to knowing Ash from before, playing vital role in pokemon story before and having well established friendships wanting to know from where this comes from. Serving as springboard toward bigger popularity increasing reputation of pokemon anime.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Yeah. I believe they should have written off Ash by the beginning of AG and rebooted the series as I believe going that route may have gotten better ratings. The games pretty much did the same thing and they're still popular.

Yeah, have to agree there. In fact, they should have ended it after the Orange Islands, though I can sort-of understand why Ash would be there since he technically WAS in GSC. Not to mention have him win the Silver Conference just to ensure his storyline comes to a close if they really have to.

 

[Famon]

Didn't they have a montage of who Ash needs to face regarding the Elite 4 and then the Champion Master when talking about the Elite 4 or something? That sounded very much like a hint. Not to mention they didn't even give ANY information about Ash heading for Best Wishes, with even the Sunday Show basically commenting on his absence during the leadup, which suggests they DID intend to have Ash win initially, but changed at the last minute (most likely because of their wasting time in Sinnoh).

That's not a hint ! Lucian simply explained the system to be a champion Master.

Who said she needed to be a trainer? And there were plenty of characters who travelled without Pok?mon. Or do I have to remind you that Daisy, Lily, and Violet when they went on that cruise didn't even bring any Pok?mon with them, or how Lola and Flint when they took a flight didn't even bring any Pok?mon with them.

Who said Misty's sister and Filnt didn't had any pokemon ? Misty sisters had their own pokemon but their lack of interest in battling prevent them for showing their pokemon.
Flint left his house on a pokemon journey so he definitely has his own pokemon ! He's the one to gave Brock his 1st pokemon.
Also , May herself said that she need a pokemon as excuse to travel ! Even in the game , Prof oak stop the trainer from leaving the city without a pokemon since its dangerous.

Traditions can be broken. Remember, it was also a tradition that Ash always gets the Grass Starter, yet they broke that in XY. It was also a tradition that Ash get all three starters, yet AG broke that before it was temporarily brought back in Best Wishes. It was also a tradition that Brock be the only character to continue to travel with Ash. Best Wishes broke that tradition permanently.

Yet some tradition never get broken! Example : Kicking out any pokemon that too strong for Ash.
Also , Ash haven't caught his 6th pokemon so it could be a grass type.

Too bad it still got included.

Speculation =/= fact

Or it did, but it was offscreen.

Or , Nothing happened at all .

And it definitely wasn't a dubbing error. Otherwise, Dogasu would have mentioned it on there especially when he has recently done a comparison of the episode. And for the record, words and phrases have meaning, so please don't infer they don't really mean anything.

Or , Dagasu doesn't consider it to be a dubbing error.

Okay, I've read it, but since it just details two months per page, we can't say definitively that it will leave by September. At best, we can say that's the latest it will leave. It could leave by August for all we can tell.

Or it stays until September! Ether way , Z-ark will last for over half a year.

Are you entirely sure that was meant to promote Platinum? Based on what Masamitsu Hidaka stated when asked about them in the interview, he didn't even know about Arceus or Shaymin despite their already having been unveiled by CoroCoro by that time, so I really wouldn't put much stock on that.

Movies are meant to promote new pokemon ! Just like the previous 2 XY movies promote Diancle and Hoopa.

Just mention it, heck, even show a TV screen mentioning it. Besides, Pok?mon Contests were shown, yet Ash only entered one.

Writer wear planning to let an idiot like Cameron to kick Ash's ass in Unova league with 5 pokemon in order to avenge Trip !
Do you think they even think about mentioning a World Tournament when Ash can't even reach the final of a regional league.

Actually, Pok?mon's not even getting 4.0, it's more like 3.0 at best. And besides, I remember hearing that when May and Ash denied being a couple, they didn't blush, which is usually confirmation that aren't one.

That still a good rating for an Anime to survive.
The Smash hit "Fullmetal Alchemist brotherhood" receive around 2.0% despite the popularity.
Also , Jessie and James didn't blush ether on that episode! Does it mean "RocketShipping" is over ?

They didn't get the box office receipts of the first movie, 2000, or the Entei movie, though. Unless they reach that much if not surpass it, then it's a bomb. Not to mention Zoroark was the last movie to be part of the top 10 until... what? The Kyurem movie? The Genesect movie certainly? And it didn't even last.

hat I agree. Not to mention it will probably end the Movie franchise as well.

Here is the Movie ranking --

Spoiler:

12 [hide]Pok?mon $932,647,680 18 $51,813,760 The First Movie ($163,644,662)
[hide]The Original $297,593,932 2 $148,796,966 The First Movie ($163,644,662) 1 The First Movie (1998) $163,644,662
2 The Movie 2000 (1999) $133,949,270
[hide]Diamond & Pearl $207,651,955 4 $51,912,989 Zoroark: Master of Illusions ($71,143,529) 1 Zoroark Master of Illusions(2010) [# 254] $71,143,529
2 Arceus and the Jewel of Life(2009) $50,673,078
3 Giratina and the Sky Warrior (2008) $43,338,599
4 The Rise of Darkrai (2007) $42,496,749
[hide]Best Wishes! $135,384,123 3 $45,128,041 Black?Victini and Reshiram and White?Victini and Zekrom ($57,082,491) 1 Black?Victini and Reshiram and White?Victini and Zekrom (2011) $57,082,491
2 Kyurem vs. the Sword of Justice (2012) $46,008,255
3 Genesect and the Legend Awakened (2013) $32,293,377
[hide]Advanced Generation $131,733,093 4 $32,933,273 Lucario and the Mystery of Mew ($37,150,760) 1 Lucario and the Mystery of Mew (2005) $37,150,760
2 Destiny Deoxys (2004) $34,337,258
3 Jirachi Wish Maker (2003) $33,393,751
4 Ranger and the Temple of the Sea (2006) $26,851,324
[hide]Johto $117,302,757 3 $39,100,919 3: The Movie ($68,411,275) 1 3: The Movie (2000) $68,411,275
2 4Ever (2001) $28,023,563
3 Heroes (2002) $20,867,919
[hide]XY $44,932,338 2 $22,466,169 Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction ($26,732,338) 1 Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction (2014) $26,732,338
2 Hoopa and the Clash of Ages (2015) $18,200,000

As you see , Jotho movies earn less money until XY series ! However , XY series still has 2 more movie left so there is still chance for XY Movie to do better then jotho movies.
So you see , Pokemon survive even when Jotho movies had bad box office So It too soon to say Pokemon Movie franchise is over.

I wouldn't be too certain about that. They generally place focus on the newer generation, and the older generation barely even gets marketed. Though if I'm wrong and they do lots of figures of older characters, feel free to prove it.

Considering Misty appear in her original cloth with Togepi so it only confirm flashback.

Yes, I'm pretty sure, especially considering that a scan is up where Wulfric and Freninja are present. I think it's on the Episode Announcements thread, either that or one of the topics on the Episode discussion forum.

What scan ? So far , Ash-Greninja confirm to fight Alain and Shota.

Actually, no, Misty was the first (Whirl Cup and her overall goal of becoming a Water Pok?mon Master, remember?). May is second at best.

From that point of view , Junior Cup is also a side-quest.
Whirl Cup is just a long-term tournament that both Misty & Ash participated! Misty didn't had to win any badge , medal or anything to qualify.
However , May's Contest is a real quest as she also collect ribbon like Ash to enter a Grand-festival .
Its admitted by various source that May is the first person to share Co-star status with Ash!
Misty was a supporting character like Brock ,Tracey , Nana (B-Daman) Bulma (DBZ) etc etc.
Misty had a goal like Brock & Clemont does but that doesn't make it a quest.

Also, if they cared about player representation, they would have replaced Ash with Brendan, or heck, even better, have Brendan replace Brock. At least THAT would ensure both player characters get a shot.

Brendan is a guy !
I'm talking about representing A Boy & A girl as the protagonist.
Ash represent Boys while May is represent girls ! Since May is the 1st protagonist and the original coordinator.

Also, Misty's not the Bulma of the anime. If anything, she's more like the Chi-Chi of the anime. And another thing, unlike Bulma, Misty NEVER attempted to abandon Ash to save her own skin, not even once (far from it, she more often than not actually attempted to save Ash even if it meant she got killed in the process. Case in point: The Samurai episode. After encountering the titular character, and then remembering Ash was from Pallet Town when Samurai left, even though she knew Samurai was armed, she ran back to Ash and tried to save him from potentially being killed by Samurai. This was way back in the fourth episode of the series, and her third episode since she joined Ash.)

Actually Bulma is better then Chi-chi since she actually understood Goku's passion.
Unlike Chi-Chi who keep force Goku to become something he's not ! Even Gohan couldn't reach his full potential because of Chi-Chi .
Honestly , The only reason Goku married Chi-chi to keep a promise because I don't think Chi-Chi was the right girl for Goku.
Also , Bulma doesn't abandoned Goku or Vegeta! She usually has faith that Goku will come back. alive.
Misty is same sterotype as Bulma (DBZ) , Nami (One Piece) , Nana (B-Damon) etc etc .
Characters like these often act as the Protagonist's big sister looking out for him.

I will agree with you on one thing, though, they definitely need to have Ash age.

And Have May as the Representative of female player in the Anime ! There no point of having multiple eye-candy , Instate the Anime should have one eye-candy who cuter and exclusive to Pokemon only.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

That's not a hint ! Lucian simply explained the system to be a champion Master.

Yeah, which was the first time we actually got any full details beyond challenging gyms and possibly the league on how to become a Pok?mon Master. Remember, the Elite 4 members may have appeared in prior sagas, but DP was the first to directly tie it to fighting them after winning a league, AND the champion, to becoming a Master. Remember, before then, we didn't really have ANY certain idea on how to become a Pok?mon Master beyond challenging Gym Leaders. Even winning a League or something similar was most likely nixed when they had Ash continuing his journey despite winning the Orange League and the Battle Frontier (and while you may argue that the former does not really have anything official backing it, the latter DID, as Agatha actually agreed with Scott for Ash to challenge the Battle Frontier. Do you really think Agatha, an Elite 4 member and someone with obvious connections to the Pok?mon League, would even ENDORSE the Battle Frontier and agree with Scott that Ash can challenge it if it wasn't even official, let alone the way to become a Master?). In fact, Sinnoh was also the first and so far ONLY region to actually SHOW all the Elite 4 members in the same region, something not even Kanto, the only OTHER region to fully showcase the regional Elite 4, was able to accomplish.

Who said Misty's sister and Filnt didn't had any pokemon ? Misty sisters had their own pokemon but their lack of interest in battling prevent them for showing their pokemon.

Did they have them on-hand when they went on that cruise? Besides, most of the Pok?mon were Gym-issued, and they don't strike me as the type to even bring their Pok?mon along.

Flint left his house on a pokemon journey so he definitely has his own pokemon ! He's the one to gave Brock his 1st pokemon.

Like I said above, there's absolutely nothing to suggest Flint took the Pok?mon along, and if anything, they more likely than not endangered them to Team Rocket's burglary attempt considering they were stupid enough to accept airplane tickets from strangers.

Also , May herself said that she need a pokemon as excuse to travel ! Even in the game , Prof oak stop the trainer from leaving the city without a pokemon since its dangerous.

Yeah, and the game also has Ground Types being completely invulnerable to Electric types, something the Anime has ignored repeatedly. Remember, the Anime has ignored the games in the past. Giovanni's still the Team Rocket leader.

Yet some tradition never get broken! Example : Kicking out any pokemon that too strong for Ash.

True...

Also , Ash haven't caught his 6th pokemon so it could be a grass type.

Yeah, but then again, if they wanted to have him catch his sixth pokemon, they would have done it by now.

Or , Nothing happened at all .

In case you've forgotten, not everything has to occur on-screen. Heck, we barely even see Misty and Jessie fight many of the contestants in the episode. Not to mention, what's to say they haven't all passed?

Or , Dagasu doesn't consider it to be a dubbing error.

This is the same guy who often rips 4Kids a new one if they even erase a single Japanese letter or make a single mistake, to the extent that if he even agrees once with 4Kids, he considers it the end of the world. Do you REALLY think that Dogasu would have just missed an opportunity to beat a dead horse with his hate with 4Kids by NOT commenting on it being an error.

Or it stays until September! Ether way , Z-ark will last for over half a year.

The only sure-fire way it would stay until September is if they actually have the calendar being a month a page, not two months per page, and it shows Puni-chan with Pikachu in the artwork representing August. We can't definitively say that September will be that time. And besides, even if the Z-arc does last until either August (or even very late July) or September, that doesn't mean they can't have Wulfric and the Pok?mon League before it. After all, Pok?mon the first movie occurred AFTER the Indigo League, canonically (granted, the air date was more complicated due to the events of the Porygon Episode, but still...).

Movies are meant to promote new pokemon ! Just like the previous 2 XY movies promote Diancle and Hoopa.

Except Masamitsu Hidaka seemed like he genuinely didn't even know about Arceus or Shaymin, which if anything made him look like a massive idiot as a result. So how can they be "promoting" new Pok?mon when they haven't even HEARD of the Pok?mon? They'd need at least SOME kind of knowledge on what they are promoting to do that.

Writer wear planning to let an idiot like Cameron to kick Ash's ass in Unova league with 5 pokemon in order to avenge Trip !
Do you think they even think about mentioning a World Tournament when Ash can't even reach the final of a regional league.

Considering they mentioned Rare Candy despite Ash not even using it at all in the show, yes, they would at least give it a passing mention.

That still a good rating for an Anime to survive.
The Smash hit "Fullmetal Alchemist brotherhood" receive around 2.0% despite the popularity.
Also , Jessie and James didn't blush ether on that episode! Does it mean "RocketShipping" is over ?

Here in America, and I suspect the same is the case in Japan, shows with those ratings automatically get CANCELLED.

Possibly, and Movie 2000's Japanese version may have actually NIXED them having a romantic relationship when they said that they were about five years too old to even THINK of having a relationship in contrast to Ash and Misty being six years too young to think of having the same.

Here is the Movie ranking --

Spoiler:

12 [hide]Pok?mon $932,647,680 18 $51,813,760 The First Movie ($163,644,662)
[hide]The Original $297,593,932 2 $148,796,966 The First Movie ($163,644,662) 1 The First Movie (1998) $163,644,662
2 The Movie 2000 (1999) $133,949,270
[hide]Diamond & Pearl $207,651,955 4 $51,912,989 Zoroark: Master of Illusions ($71,143,529) 1 Zoroark Master of Illusions(2010) [# 254] $71,143,529
2 Arceus and the Jewel of Life(2009) $50,673,078
3 Giratina and the Sky Warrior (2008) $43,338,599
4 The Rise of Darkrai (2007) $42,496,749
[hide]Best Wishes! $135,384,123 3 $45,128,041 Black?Victini and Reshiram and White?Victini and Zekrom ($57,082,491) 1 Black?Victini and Reshiram and White?Victini and Zekrom (2011) $57,082,491
2 Kyurem vs. the Sword of Justice (2012) $46,008,255
3 Genesect and the Legend Awakened (2013) $32,293,377
[hide]Advanced Generation $131,733,093 4 $32,933,273 Lucario and the Mystery of Mew ($37,150,760) 1 Lucario and the Mystery of Mew (2005) $37,150,760
2 Destiny Deoxys (2004) $34,337,258
3 Jirachi Wish Maker (2003) $33,393,751
4 Ranger and the Temple of the Sea (2006) $26,851,324
[hide]Johto $117,302,757 3 $39,100,919 3: The Movie ($68,411,275) 1 3: The Movie (2000) $68,411,275
2 4Ever (2001) $28,023,563
3 Heroes (2002) $20,867,919
[hide]XY $44,932,338 2 $22,466,169 Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction ($26,732,338) 1 Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction (2014) $26,732,338
2 Hoopa and the Clash of Ages (2015) $18,200,000

As you see , Jotho movies earn less money until XY series ! However , XY series still has 2 more movie left so there is still chance for XY Movie to do better then jotho movies.
So you see , Pokemon survive even when Jotho movies had bad box office So It too soon to say Pokemon Movie franchise is over.

Fine, I stand corrected (though considering the Diancie Movie underperformed enough that they actually fired and replaced the screenwriter, I really wouldn't say it did all THAT well, and Dogasu certainly thinks the same.).

Considering Misty appear in her original cloth with Togepi so it only confirm flashback.

I was talking about merchandise, actually.

What scan ? So far , Ash-Greninja confirm to fight Alain and Shota.

I know I saw it on here. It has to be around here somewhere, I also know it had I think either pink or purple Japanese text as well, and it had some sort of bluish background like a cave or a nighttime area. It may have even been in someone's sig. I'll try to hunt it down. I think it was on either the ruined anime thread or this one. I know it was definitely a thread I posted in recently on this site.

From that point of view , Junior Cup is also a side-quest.

Except the Junior Cup doesn't have any real ties to becoming a Pok?mon Master, while the Whirl Cup was explicitly stated to actually be necessary to becoming a Water Pok?mon Master.

Whirl Cup is just a long-term tournament that both Misty & Ash participated! Misty didn't had to win any badge , medal or anything to qualify.

As DBZ Fan Pointed out, it's basically the place Water Pok?mon Masters go to to prove themselves that they are more than fit for the title, or at least a stepping stone towards that. And if they kept Misty, they DEFINITELY would have created something for her to do to get it.

However , May's Contest is a real quest as she also collect ribbon like Ash to enter a Grand-festival .
Its admitted by various source that May is the first person to share Co-star status with Ash!
Misty was a supporting character like Brock ,Tracey , Nana (B-Daman) Bulma (DBZ) etc etc.
Misty had a goal like Brock & Clemont does but that doesn't make it a quest.

Actually, it WAS a quest, and it certainly was more of that than Brock's goal or Clemont's goal. And for the record, if May was truly a co-star, she wouldn't have even been replaced by Dawn. She was replaced, so by definition, she's NOT a co-star. If Ash can't be replaced due to his stardom, May most certainly can't if she truly was a co-star. So by definition, there IS no co-star as everyone save for Ash is expendable.

Brendan is a guy !
I'm talking about representing A Boy & A girl as the protagonist.
Ash represent Boys while May is represent girls ! Since May is the 1st protagonist and the original coordinator.

Ash doesn't even represent MOST of the generations he's doing, so no, they DO need to have a guy character representing the specific generation Ash is undergoing. Besides, we could have him replace Ash as well. It work for the various Special Mangas and the games.

Actually Bulma is better then Chi-chi since she actually understood Goku's passion.
Unlike Chi-Chi who keep force Goku to become something he's not ! Even Gohan couldn't reach his full potential because of Chi-Chi .

Fine, bad comparison, but she's still nothing like Bulma at all.

Honestly , The only reason Goku married Chi-chi to keep a promise because I don't think Chi-Chi was the right girl for Goku.

Okay, fine, Chi-Chi may have been a bad example, but Bulma is NOT even close to Misty at all regardless.

Also , Bulma doesn't abandoned Goku or Vegeta! She usually has faith that Goku will come back. alive.

Yeah, actually, she DID attempt to abandon Goku when he was in grave danger. I can even name a specific example where she did do that: General Blue Saga, when the Pirate Cave was collapsing. She was ready to hightail it out of there and leave Goku to die in the cave, something that Krillin actually expressed disgust to her for.

Misty is same sterotype as Bulma (DBZ) , Nami (One Piece) , Nana (B-Damon) etc etc .
Characters like these often act as the Protagonist's big sister looking out for him.

I can't comment on Nami or Nana, but I do know that Misty's NOTHING like Bulma.

And Have May as the Representative of female player in the Anime ! There no point of having multiple eye-candy , Instate the Anime should have one eye-candy who cuter and exclusive to Pokemon only.

In that case, it should have stuck with Misty, since she actually WAS marketed as being the same as Ash, not much different than May, really. And if they kept her, you can BET they would give her a token sidequest as well.

Either way, Ash should actually be allowed to age, makes his journey all the more plausible. In fact, Dragon Ball, which dealt with a similar goal, had aging. Either that, or replace him.

 

[Famon]

Yeah, which was the first time we actually got any full details beyond challenging gyms and possibly the league on how to become a Pok?mon Master. Remember, the Elite 4 members may have appeared in prior sagas, but DP was the first to directly tie it to fighting them after winning a league, AND the champion, to becoming a Master. Remember, before then, we didn't really have ANY certain idea on how to become a Pok?mon Master beyond challenging Gym Leaders. Even winning a League or something similar was most likely nixed when they had Ash continuing his journey despite winning the Orange League and the Battle Frontier (and while you may argue that the former does not really have anything official backing it, the latter DID, as Agatha actually agreed with Scott for Ash to challenge the Battle Frontier. Do you really think Agatha, an Elite 4 member and someone with obvious connections to the Pok?mon League, would even ENDORSE the Battle Frontier and agree with Scott that Ash can challenge it if it wasn't even official, let alone the way to become a Master?). In fact, Sinnoh was also the first and so far ONLY region to actually SHOW all the Elite 4 members in the same region, something not even Kanto, the only OTHER region to fully showcase the regional Elite 4, was able to accomplish.









I know I saw it on here. It has to be around here somewhere, I also know it had I think either pink or purple Japanese text as well, and it had some sort of bluish background like a cave or a nighttime area. It may have even been in someone's sig. I'll try to hunt it down. I think it was on either the ruined anime thread or this one. I know it was definitely a thread I posted in recently on this site.

Agatha encouraged Ash for Battle Frontier because Writers forced her too! Because Battle Frontier and Orange Island didn't do any good since Ash got ass kicked by Gary right afterward.
Even Alain Battling 10 megevolution user seem like a better training since he actually beat an E4 member.

Did they have them on-hand when they went on that cruise? Besides, most of the Pok?mon were Gym-issued, and they don't strike me as the type to even bring their Pok?mon along.

That doesn't mean , They didn't had any pokemon of their own! Ash doesn't traveled with all his pokemon.

Like I said above, there's absolutely nothing to suggest Flint took the Pok?mon along, and if anything, they more likely than not endangered them to Team Rocket's burglary attempt considering they were stupid enough to accept airplane tickets from strangers.

So Flint gone on a pokemon journey empty-handed without a single pokemon!
Do you even know how stupid it sound ?

Yeah, and the game also has Ground Types being completely invulnerable to Electric types, something the Anime has ignored repeatedly. Remember, the Anime has ignored the games in the past. Giovanni's still the Team Rocket leader.

Yet May said various time that she wasn't allowed to travel unless she picks a Pokemon!
Not to mention , Serena herself was attacked and was saved because of her Fennekin ! Pokemon world is not place for a 10 year kid to travel alone without a Pokemon .

Yeah, but then again, if they wanted to have him catch his sixth pokemon, they would have done it by now.

Wow , You are saying that Ash won't catch a 6th pokemon! Even though Ash caught Aipom right at the end of Battle Frontier.

In case you've forgotten, not everything has to occur on-screen. Heck, we barely even see Misty and Jessie fight many of the contestants in the episode. Not to mention, what's to say they haven't all passed?

That doesn't mean you can use Off-screen as a proof of something didn't happen !

This is the same guy who often rips 4Kids a new one if they even erase a single Japanese letter or make a single mistake, to the extent that if he even agrees once with 4Kids, he considers it the end of the world. Do you REALLY think that Dogasu would have just missed an opportunity to beat a dead horse with his hate with 4Kids by NOT commenting on it being an error.

Unlike you , he doesn't care about "Just" & "Is" ! Plus , There are lot of thing from Original series that need to be cut off.

Considering they mentioned Rare Candy despite Ash not even using it at all in the show, yes, they would at least give it a passing mention.

Why would Ash use Rare candy ? Also , The Anime change Rare Candies function .
I wonder , if it really was a rare Candy or An Anime exclusive candy that make Pokemon larger.

The only sure-fire way it would stay until September is if they actually have the calendar being a month a page, not two months per page, and it shows Puni-chan with Pikachu in the artwork representing August. We can't definitively say that September will be that time. And besides, even if the Z-arc does last until either August (or even very late July) or September, that doesn't mean they can't have Wulfric and the Pok?mon League before it. After all, Pok?mon the first movie occurred AFTER the Indigo League, canonically (granted, the air date was more complicated due to the events of the Porygon Episode, but still...).

Currently , We can be sure until September !
Also , There is too many thing at stack now ! Its better to have a league after Z-ark .

Except Masamitsu Hidaka seemed like he genuinely didn't even know about Arceus or Shaymin, which if anything made him look like a massive idiot as a result. So how can they be "promoting" new Pok?mon when they haven't even HEARD of the Pok?mon? They'd need at least SOME kind of knowledge on what they are promoting to do that.

So , Giratina movie was made all by itself ! Use your common sense.
Masamitsu Hidaka wasn't even the director in DP series , he was the storyboard artist after Battle Frontier.

Here in America, and I suspect the same is the case in Japan, shows with those ratings automatically get CANCELLED.

We are talking about Japan and a lot low rated anime survives there.
Such as Gintama , Battle Spirit , Yugioh , Precure etc etc.

Possibly, and Movie 2000's Japanese version may have actually NIXED them having a romantic relationship when they said that they were about five years too old to even THINK of having a relationship in contrast to Ash and Misty being six years too young to think of having the same.

Yet now , Jessie became a Lovestruck who fall for every hot guys except James. (Not to mention her having multiple relationship that ended in a broken heart)
Also , All the hint in Digimon Adventure point toward Tai and Sora but she ended up marrying Matt.

Fine, I stand corrected (though considering the Diancie Movie underperformed enough that they actually fired and replaced the screenwriter, I really wouldn't say it did all THAT well, and Dogasu certainly thinks the same.).

Hoopa movie did even worst but Tomioka still writing the next movie.

Except the Junior Cup doesn't have any real ties to becoming a Pok?mon Master, while the Whirl Cup was explicitly stated to actually be necessary to becoming a Water Pok?mon Master.

Whirl Cup is a Water Pokemon Tournament that gave the trainer the title of Alpha Omega! It doen't make anyone a Water Pokmon Master.
And A lot thing suppose to make Ash closer to be a Pokemon Master but they doesn't ! Because many of those thing are said to hype us .
Whirl Cup not a quest Because Misty doesn't even needed to travel , She just need to wait for 3 year and temporarily leave the gym to go to the whirl Island and compete.
If PIA doesn't have any problem with Faintina , Viola , Korrina and Clemont etc leaving Gym for long period of Time then I'm sure they doesn't have any problem with Misty leaving the gym to compete in Whirl Cup.
Not to mention that Ash compete in Whirl Cup despite having different Goal! However , Ash only comptete in a unofficial Contest , A DP Contest for Aipom and another for Wallace.
According to your theory , PokeRinger should be a side quest of James since that the only thing he wished to become (Beside a Bad Guy). But PokeRinger is not a Side-quest.

As DBZ Fan Pointed out, it's basically the place Water Pok?mon Masters go to to prove themselves that they are more than fit for the title, or at least a stepping stone towards that. And if they kept Misty, they DEFINITELY would have created something for her to do to get it.

It may created something for Misty to do but it still not a Side-quest .
It more of a Tournament ark.

Actually, it WAS a quest, and it certainly was more of that than Brock's goal or Clemont's goal. And for the record, if May was truly a co-star, she wouldn't have even been replaced by Dawn. She was replaced, so by definition, she's NOT a co-star. If Ash can't be replaced due to his stardom, May most certainly can't if she truly was a co-star. So by definition, there IS no co-star as everyone save for Ash is expendable.

You only think like that because you're a Misty-fan!
And I'm not the only one to claim May to be a Co-star , Its admitted by many fans.

Ash doesn't even represent MOST of the generations he's doing, so no, they DO need to have a guy character representing the specific generation Ash is undergoing. Besides, we could have him replace Ash as well. It work for the various Special Mangas and the games.

People are asking to replace Ash for a long time.
Currently , Writer using Ash to represent all male PC of Pokemon considering that he wear the same outfit as them.

Yeah, actually, she DID attempt to abandon Goku when he was in grave danger. I can even name a specific example where she did do that: General Blue Saga, when the Pirate Cave was collapsing. She was ready to hightail it out of there and leave Goku to die in the cave, something that Krillin actually expressed disgust to her for

Yet , She's the one to slap Beerus right at his face !
Let me remind you , Misty was the one who hurt Caterpie so much that went to its pokeball crying.
All because Caterpie is a gross bug , Even May wasn't harsh to an pokemon despite her hate toward them.
But , We still doesn't bash her for it ! Misty is same stereotype as Bulma with some minor difference.
Basically all shouene anime with an "Idiot Hero" stereotype like Ash has a female supporting character similar to Misty/Bulma's stereotype who act as the hero's handler.
But the hero doesn't always marries them.
However , Ash no longer a Rookie so there point of being another Misty like Iris ! The new series need someone like Lucy (Fairy Tail) and May is pretty similar to Lucy.

In that case, it should have stuck with Misty, since she actually WAS marketed as being the same as Ash, not much different than May, really. And if they kept her, you can BET they would give her a token sidequest as well.

Misty is gymleader specializing in One type of Pokemon !
Pokemon need the main girl of the game who's goal involve all the type of pokemon.
The only reason Misty doing random Water tournament as Side-quest is acceptable to you because its Just Misty .
However , May & Contest far better decision ! Even better then Serena & her Showcase.

Either way, Ash should actually be allowed to age, makes his journey all the more plausible. In fact, Dragon Ball, which dealt with a similar goal, had aging. Either that, or replace him.

Or , Ash get stuck as a 14 year old Champion master and Pokemon become more like Gintama that shows random Gag episode with Serious ark in middle.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Agatha encouraged Ash for Battle Frontier because Writers forced her too! Because Battle Frontier and Orange Island didn't do any good since Ash got ass kicked by Gary right afterward.
Even Alain Battling 10 megevolution user seem like a better training since he actually beat an E4 member.

Forced her? No, they didn't "force her" in any way other than writing her that way. And use common sense, that would have made Agatha look like an idiot and make the entire Pok?mon League look bad by approving Ash to do something that would not have Ash do well (even though I do agree it came across as very cheap for Gary to beat him after his one major accomplishment in AG.).

Besides, suppose Ash won the Kalos league, and even beat the Elite 4 and the Champion and Gary still beat him, are you going to use that argument as well?

That doesn't mean , They didn't had any pokemon of their own! Ash doesn't traveled with all his pokemon.

Daisy, Lily, and Violet cared even LESS about Pok?mon training than May ever did. In fact, they flat out didn't even want to be trainers at all, let alone gym leaders. Do you really think they'd take their Pok?mon along if they didn't want to be trainers?

So Flint gone on a pokemon journey empty-handed without a single pokemon!
Do you even know how stupid it sound ?

You need reading comprehension, because that's NOT what I was referring to at all. Remember Grating Spaces? He and Lola accepted plane tickets for some place outside Kanto from "painters" (actually Team Rocket) and nearly endangered the Gym, and it's extremely unlikely they brought along their Pok?mon. I'm NOT referring to the time he went on a Pok?mon journey and flunked, abandoning his kids in the process (in fact, obviously he had Pok?mon during THAT time).

Yet May said various time that she wasn't allowed to travel unless she picks a Pokemon!
Not to mention , Serena herself was attacked and was saved because of her Fennekin ! Pokemon world is not place for a 10 year kid to travel alone without a Pokemon .

Those cheerleaders who accompanied Gary didn't seem to even HAVE Pok?mon on hand.

Wow , You are saying that Ash won't catch a 6th pokemon! Even though Ash caught Aipom right at the end of Battle Frontier.

Fine, I stand corrected there.

That doesn't mean you can use Off-screen as a proof of something didn't happen !

Ah, yes, actually, it DOES mean that, especially when we don't even see Misty and Jessie competing against many of their competitors (in fact, not counting each other, they only had four girls we actually saw them fighting, and they weren't even full battles).

Unlike you , he doesn't care about "Just" & "Is" ! Plus , There are lot of thing from Original series that need to be cut off.

Actually, in case you haven't noticed, Dogasu really has an axe to grind against 4Kids, which he makes painfully obvious in his comparisons of various 4Kids-dubbed episodes, and seems particularly biased to the Japanese versions. In other words, yes, he actually would care about "just" and "also" especially if it gives him an excuse to bash 4Kids.

Why would Ash use Rare candy ? Also , The Anime change Rare Candies function .
I wonder , if it really was a rare Candy or An Anime exclusive candy that make Pokemon larger.

The Japanese version made very clear that it was Rare Candy.

Currently , We can be sure until September !
Also , There is too many thing at stack now ! Its better to have a league after Z-ark .

No, actually, we CAN'T be sure that it will be until September. We only know that is the latest it could go. Heck, they could go until Movie 19 premiers in July for all we know.

So , Giratina movie was made all by itself ! Use your common sense.
Masamitsu Hidaka wasn't even the director in DP series , he was the storyboard artist after Battle Frontier.

Yes, and even storyboard artists would at least have some familiarity about WHAT they are advertising (not much point doing animation on the lead character of a movie and basically the marketing of said character for the games if they don't even know who said character is). Not to mention, if we average fans who don't even have any direct ties to making the Anime and movies can at least know about their existence, it would stand to reason that they should know as well, yet they don't, or at least, Hidaka didn't, which just makes him look stupid (and yes, based on that interview, he genuinely didn't know and wasn't faking it).

We are talking about Japan and a lot low rated anime survives there.
Such as Gintama , Battle Spirit , Yugioh , Precure etc etc.

I can cite an anime that got cancelled because of low ratings. Love Hina.

Yet now , Jessie became a Lovestruck who fall for every hot guys except James. (Not to mention her having multiple relationship that ended in a broken heart)
Also , All the hint in Digimon Adventure point toward Tai and Sora but she ended up marrying Matt.

I'm not a Pokeshipper. In fact, I don't see any reason to ship anyone if it doesn't have Love at First Sight, and yes, Pokeshipping lacks love at first sight. I may find it more likely to occur than Amourshipping, but that's only because Amourshipping has even LESS hints of it being valid (Ash doesn't even notice that Serena's crushing on him, let alone reciprocate feelings. At least with Pokeshipping, Ash actually DID have jealousy for Misty a few times).

Hoopa movie did even worst but Tomioka still writing the next movie.

Yeah, and I don't have high hopes for that movie either, and neither does Dogasu.

Whirl Cup is a Water Pokemon Tournament that gave the trainer the title of Alpha Omega! It doen't make anyone a Water Pokmon Master.

What do you think "Alpha and Omega" means? It means be-all end-all. In other words, a MASTER!

And A lot thing suppose to make Ash closer to be a Pokemon Master but they doesn't ! Because many of those thing are said to hype us .

By that logic, Ash has even LESS of a goal than Misty, not to mention even less of a quest.

Whirl Cup not a quest Because Misty doesn't even needed to travel , She just need to wait for 3 year and temporarily leave the gym to go to the whirl Island and compete.

Her sisters are unreliable. It would be a very bad idea to leave the gym to people who are unreliable in running it. DBZ Fan made that much clear.

If PIA doesn't have any problem with Faintina , Viola , Korrina and Clemont etc leaving Gym for long period of Time then I'm sure they doesn't have any problem with Misty leaving the gym to compete in Whirl Cup.

If they didn't have a problem, Cerulean Gym would NOT have nearly been shut down (then again, the PIA's just garbage at inspecting gyms anyhow, since they let Pewter Gym pass despite failing safety and coolness factors).

Not to mention that Ash compete in Whirl Cup despite having different Goal! However , Ash only comptete in a unofficial Contest , A DP Contest for Aipom and another for Wallace.
According to your theory , PokeRinger should be a side quest of James since that the only thing he wished to become (Beside a Bad Guy). But PokeRinger is not a Side-quest.

Not really all that different, actually, since he needs to master all types, which would naturally include Water Pok?mon as well.

Can't comment on James, though.

It may created something for Misty to do but it still not a Side-quest .
It more of a Tournament ark.

They emphasized her goal of wanting to become a Water Pok?mon Master since Kanto at the earliest, with Johto placing more emphasis on it, so yes, it IS a side-quest.

You only think like that because you're a Misty-fan!
And I'm not the only one to claim May to be a Co-star , Its admitted by many fans.

No, I'm claiming it because May doesn't even stay on the show. In order for someone to be a co-star, they need to be their equal in every way, and yes, that means permanent residence as a main character like Ash. Not to mention, in Movie 9, Ash saved the day despite it being her movie, and May, if anything, came across as a sniveling coward who abandoned her own kid to the main villain out of fear, not even ATTEMPTING to do anything at all. And BTW, even if I outright hated Misty and would not have been one of her fans, I STILL would have thought the exact same thing. Co-stars do NOT get the boot.

People are asking to replace Ash for a long time.
Currently , Writer using Ash to represent all male PC of Pokemon considering that he wear the same outfit as them.

No, he doesn't wear the same outfit as them, actually. He wears variations of his standard clothes, but NOT the main character's standard clothes. He would have worn a headband if he was to channel Brendan, for example.

Yet , She's the one to slap Beerus right at his face !

Without Goku being nearby.

Let me remind you , Misty was the one who hurt Caterpie so much that went to its pokeball crying.

At least she didn't feed Caterpie to a Pidgeotto out of sheer stupidity, unlike Ash.

All because Caterpie is a gross bug , Even May wasn't harsh to an pokemon despite her hate toward them.

Misty also told off Ash for endangering Caterpie DESPITE her disgust for it.

But , We still doesn't bash her for it ! Misty is same stereotype as Bulma with some minor difference.

Actually, not abandoning your friends at any point is a pretty major difference between her and Bulma.

Basically all shouene anime with an "Idiot Hero" stereotype like Ash has a female supporting character similar to Misty/Bulma's stereotype who act as the hero's handler.
But the hero doesn't always marries them.

Who said anything about Misty marrying Ash? I don't even believe in Pokeshipping, especially when there's zero love at first sight involved (you can thank Disney and Romeo and Juliet for why I think this way), and the only reason I even think it has more of a chance than Amourshipping is because unlike Amourshipping, it actually WAS a two-way street regarding reactions that CAN be argued to be crushing on the other. And besides, there are plenty of Japanese mediums where those characters actually DO marry the hero, so don't dismiss them (I can even name one example: Mayl and Lan Hikari from MegaMan Battle Network).

However , Ash no longer a Rookie so there point of being another Misty like Iris ! The new series need someone like Lucy (Fairy Tail) and May is pretty similar to Lucy.

I don't give a darn about Lucy, and quite frankly, May still won't go for Ash anyways, Drew or not.

Misty is gymleader specializing in One type of Pokemon !

So? There are plenty of players who go for one type of Pok?mon. I even know one: Nickstr. And besides, at least Misty's goal actually CAN realistically get you to the end credits of a playthrough of one of the games, albeit with some difficulty.

Pokemon need the main girl of the game who's goal involve all the type of pokemon.

And the only way to effectively promote that is to have her compete in leagues, especially when in the games, Pok?mon Contests, heck, Pok?mon Showcases even, are NOT goals to get you to the credits and are at best a sidequest.

The only reason Misty doing random Water tournament as Side-quest is acceptable to you because its Just Misty .

No, it's not just because it's Misty. It's also because the players are more likely to get to the end credits of a game with that goal than with May's Pok?mon Contests (which, BTW, are FAR closer to being a meaningless goal in that regard).

However , May & Contest far better decision ! Even better then Serena & her Showcase.

If it was a far better decision, please explain why no one got the end credits by completing Pok?mon Contests, unlike with League challenges? And to reflect your earlier comment, you're only saying it's better because it's just May. And if it truly was a better decision, they would have kept May for DP, not replace her with a new girl with the same goal.

Or , Ash get stuck as a 14 year old Champion master and Pokemon become more like Gintama that shows random Gag episode with Serious ark in middle.

That probably wouldn't fit Pok?mon's style. It may have some focus on competition, but it's still a kids' anime, and I doubt they should make it too serious. Aging him is the only acceptable outcome other than just dropping him from the series. And there have been plenty of shows that replaced their main characters. Heck, even PokeSpecial has replaced its lead characters, so even in the franchise, we've got series that replace their leads.

 

[Famon]

Forced her? No, they didn't "force her" in any way other than writing her that way. And use common sense, that would have made Agatha look like an idiot and make the entire Pokémon League look bad by approving Ash to do something that would not have Ash do well (even though I do agree it came across as very cheap for Gary to beat him after his one major accomplishment in AG.).

Besides, suppose Ash won the Kalos league, and even beat the Elite 4 and the Champion and Gary still beat him, are you going to use that argument as well?

"Written Agatha the same Way" is same as forcing her !
Do you think A trainer like Ash would ever lose to trash name Trip or Cameron ? No , But Writers force him too.
Its an Anime , Agatha said all those thing because Writer wanted her to send Ash in Battle Frontier .

Also , Ask that question after Ash win the Kalos league and get beaten by Gary ! Because then , He might be too strong for Gary to beat him.

Daisy, Lily, and Violet cared even LESS about Pokémon training than May ever did. In fact, they flat out didn't even want to be trainers at all, let alone gym leaders. Do you really think they'd take their Pokémon along if they didn't want to be trainers?

Just because they doesn't like Pokemon training doesn't mean they doesn't keep their pokemon !
They simply keep them as pet.

You need reading comprehension, because that's NOT what I was referring to at all. Remember Grating Spaces? He and Lola accepted plane tickets for some place outside Kanto from "painters" (actually Team Rocket) and nearly endangered the Gym, and it's extremely unlikely they brought along their Pokémon. I'm NOT referring to the time he went on a Pokémon journey and flunked, abandoning his kids in the process (in fact, obviously he had Pokémon during THAT time).

Are you guaranty it ? Have you seen any of Lola's water pokemon in the gym ?
Have you seen any pokemon that doesn't belong to Brock or Foster ?
Also , Didn't you notice that they also took Brock's Ludicolo with them ?

Those cheerleaders who accompanied Gary didn't seem to even HAVE Pokémon on hand.

May's mother Caroline never shown any pokemon but she did tried to catch a Tantacool in the flashback! Do you think she just like Ash who throw empty pokeball at pokemon.

Ah, yes, actually, it DOES mean that, especially when we don't even see Misty and Jessie competing against many of their competitors (in fact, not counting each other, they only had four girls we actually saw them fighting, and they weren't even full battles).

We did saw Misty & Jessie competing against many of their competitor.
But they were so weak that they didn't last a second against an experience trainer! Its a shame Misty used Borrowed pokemon when May , Dawn and even Serena could have won it using their own pokemon.

Actually, in case you haven't noticed, Dogasu really has an axe to grind against 4Kids, which he makes painfully obvious in his comparisons of various 4Kids-dubbed episodes, and seems particularly biased to the Japanese versions. In other words, yes, he actually would care about "just" and "also" especially if it gives him an excuse to bash 4Kids.

It doesn't matter because he not the one arguing about that Beauty Pageant qualifying or eliminating anyone .

The Japanese version made very clear that it was Rare Candy.

Rare candies doesn't turn pokemon into Godzila size monsters.
It was nothing more then a untested experimental candy that Dr.Gordon accidentally invented.

No, actually, we CAN'T be sure that it will be until September. We only know that is the latest it could go. Heck, they could go until Movie 19 premiers in July for all we know.

Puni-chan appeared until September so that's the "End" Month.

Yes, and even storyboard artists would at least have some familiarity about WHAT they are advertising (not much point doing animation on the lead character of a movie and basically the marketing of said character for the games if they don't even know who said character is). Not to mention, if we average fans who don't even have any direct ties to making the Anime and movies can at least know about their existence, it would stand to reason that they should know as well, yet they don't, or at least, Hidaka didn't, which just makes him look stupid (and yes, based on that interview, he genuinely didn't know and wasn't faking it).

So , Did the Movie was made all by itself ? Obviously , The Movie was made by a studio while the Producer paying for it.
Those who made the movie knew what they are advertizing !

I can cite an anime that got cancelled because of low ratings. Love Hina.

Are you sure it got canceled because of Low Rating ? There are many people for an Anime to get canceled.
For example : Cartoon Network pull the plug on Love-hina because of Lousy Voice acting.

I'm not a Pokeshipper. In fact, I don't see any reason to ship anyone if it doesn't have Love at First Sight, and yes, Pokeshipping lacks love at first sight. I may find it more likely to occur than Amourshipping, but that's only because Amourshipping has even LESS hints of it being valid (Ash doesn't even notice that Serena's crushing on him, let alone reciprocate feelings. At least with Pokeshipping, Ash actually DID have jealousy for Misty a few times).

Its a Kids Anime , Not some mature Shoujo !
In here its better for both Ash & The girl to be unaware of their own growing feeling toward one another until they grow older to understand it.
Thats why , Most Kids Anime doesn't have confession or Dating ! They just have a flash forward future to show whom the protagonist married.

What do you think "Alpha and Omega" means? It means be-all end-all. In other words, a MASTER!

In that case , Ash would be An Aura-guardian without receiving any training since he won the Rota Tournament.
Dude , Alpha Omega is just a title!

Her sisters are unreliable. It would be a very bad idea to leave the gym to people who are unreliable in running it. DBZ Fan made that much clear.

Then she won't leave the Gym to them ! Viola , Fantina & Byron often leave the gym empty So their is no problem if Misty leave to compete in Whirl Cup .

By that logic, Ash has even LESS of a goal than Misty, not to mention even less of a quest.

Why you competing Misty goal with Ash ?
Ash travel around the whole year collecting Gym badge to compete in Pokemon League while Misty just follow Ash around hoping something related to Water Pokemon will pop up .
That's not a quest .

If they didn't have a problem, Cerulean Gym would NOT have nearly been shut down (then again, the PIA's just garbage at inspecting gyms anyhow, since they let Pewter Gym pass despite failing safety and coolness factors).

Pewter City came more close to be shut down then Cerulean Gym.
Also , If PIA doesn't have problem with a robot running a gym while the Leader running around then they doesn't have the right to judge Misty.
Not to mention Volker giving off Free Badges.

Not really all that different, actually, since he needs to master all types, which would naturally include Water Pokémon as well.

Then how come Cynthia , Alder and Diantha are the only champion to use all type of Pokemon.

Can't comment on James, though.



They emphasized her goal of wanting to become a Water Pokémon Master since Kanto at the earliest, with Johto placing more emphasis on it, so yes, it IS a side-quest.

In that case , Iris winning Don Tournament and battling Dreydan should be a Side-quest as well.
Even though , She couldn't even fulfill one job that Ash able to do .
Seriously , If Ash evolve Noibat then that should make him a Dragon Master.

FYI : Clair isn't from Dragon Village but she still a Dragon Master.

No, I'm claiming it because May doesn't even stay on the show. In order for someone to be a co-star, they need to be their equal in every way, and yes, that means permanent residence as a main character like Ash. Not to mention, in Movie 9, Ash saved the day despite it being her movie, and May, if anything, came across as a sniveling coward who abandoned her own kid to the main villain out of fear, not even ATTEMPTING to do anything at all. And BTW, even if I outright hated Misty and would not have been one of her fans, I STILL would have thought the exact same thing. Co-stars do NOT get the boot.

Misty got replaced too !
Also May was not only Ash's equal , She practically overshadowed him.
Ash barely didn't had any competition at all.
Basically , Everything in AG seem to be focus on May & Her Contest!
It felt like the new stuff who took over the show saw May as the Protagonist and Drew as the hero while Ash just a supporting character .
Ash merely got focus in Gym or Movies.

Also , Have you even seen the movie ? Because May never Abandoned Manaphy , She run right behind it when the Sea Temple was collapsing.
Furthermore , It was May's word that awakened Ash and give him the strength to fix the Sea temple.

No, he doesn't wear the same outfit as them, actually. He wears variations of his standard clothes, but NOT the main character's standard clothes. He would have worn a headband if he was to channel Brendan, for example.

Yet his DP , BW and XY outfit has striking resemblance with the Games main character outfit.

Without Goku being nearby.

Which make it more courageous because the strongest guy wasn't around to save her .

At least she didn't feed Caterpie to a Pidgeotto out of sheer stupidity, unlike Ash.



Misty also told off Ash for endangering Caterpie DESPITE her disgust for it.

Ash did it to prove Caterpie's strength specially after Misty insult it and hurt its feeling.

She didn't do it out of her love for Caterpie ! She was simply criticizing Ash.

Actually, not abandoning your friends at any point is a pretty major difference between her and Bulma.

At least , she doesn't insult Bugs pokemon for being gross! Misty & Bulma both had their own flaws.

Who said anything about Misty marrying Ash? I don't even believe in Pokeshipping, especially when there's zero love at first sight involved (you can thank Disney and Romeo and Juliet for why I think this way), and the only reason I even think it has more of a chance than Amourshipping is because unlike Amourshipping, it actually WAS a two-way street regarding reactions that CAN be argued to be crushing on the other. And besides, there are plenty of Japanese mediums where those characters actually DO marry the hero, so don't dismiss them (I can even name one example: Mayl and Lan Hikari from MegaMan Battle Network).

There is no love at first slight in Kids Anime!
Just because Mayl and Lan got married doesn't mean Ash & Misty would suffer the same fact.
For example : Tai and Sora didn't end up together despite all the hint pointing toward them.
Instate , The Anime giving more hint toward Tracey and Misty since AG series.

I don't give a darn about Lucy, and quite frankly, May still won't go for Ash anyways, Drew or not.

After the stunt Ash pulled in Sea Temple , Any girl would be head over the hill for him.
The Only problem is Drew and Atsuhiro Tomioka's love for this guy.
Off Course , Junichi Masuda use an "Advanceshipping" fanart in his Twitter account.

So? There are plenty of players who go for one type of Pokémon. I even know one: Nickstr. And besides, at least Misty's goal actually CAN realistically get you to the end credits of a playthrough of one of the games, albeit with some difficulty.

Who the hell is Nickstr ? Don't use some hack game to prove your point !

And the only way to effectively promote that is to have her compete in leagues, especially when in the games, Pokémon Contests, heck, Pokémon Showcases even, are NOT goals to get you to the credits and are at best a sidequest.

Pokemon Contest is Side-quest in Anime and by far the Best one since its shown a different type of Battling.

No, it's not just because it's Misty. It's also because the players are more likely to get to the end credits of a game with that goal than with May's Pokémon Contests (which, BTW, are FAR closer to being a meaningless goal in that regard).



If it was a far better decision, please explain why no one got the end credits by completing Pokémon Contests, unlike with League challenges? And to reflect your earlier comment, you're only saying it's better because it's just May. And if it truly was a better decision, they would have kept May for DP, not replace her with a new girl with the same goal.

Here the thing , Since when Misty is a playable character ?
Don't dare to use Hack games ! It made by another Misty fan who wanted Misty to be same as May & Dawn.
There is no end credit in Anime , Also ORAS has an entire ark on Contest.
Also , The Anime replace May with Dawn to promote Diamond and Pearl while giving new Eye-candies to boys .
That Interview answered the question .

That probably wouldn't fit Pokémon's style. It may have some focus on competition, but it's still a kids' anime, and I doubt they should make it too serious. Aging him is the only acceptable outcome other than just dropping him from the series. And there have been plenty of shows that replaced their main characters. Heck, even PokeSpecial has replaced its lead characters, so even in the franchise, we've got series that replace their leads.

The Current style doesn't fit Pokemon ether ! Pokemon is Gag battle anime , not a Japanese version of Dragon tales.
Currently , People can't enjoy the filler because they too focus on Ash's goal So all filler seem unbearable .
And we already seen what happen when Writers screw the League in BW Series.
So , People will enjoy filler if Ash already accomplish his goal to be a Champion Master! Afterward , The Anime could focus on Ash dealing with Bad Guys while also facing similar issue a real 12 year old boy face in real life.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

"Written Agatha the same Way" is same as forcing her !
Do you think A trainer like Ash would ever lose to trash name Trip or Cameron ? No , But Writers force him too.
Its an Anime , Agatha said all those thing because Writer wanted her to send Ash in Battle Frontier .

No, it's not "forcing" her at all. Forcing her to do something would be more if she didn't want it yet they ended up making her do it anyways via a proverbial gun to the back. And like I said, that would make her and the Elite 4 look extremely bad and foolish if they did that, and use common sense, do you REALLY think they would disrespect what the Anime made clear was among the strongest trainers of the world and having a very high reputation to them look like idiots by doing that?

Also , Ask that question after Ash win the Kalos league and get beaten by Gary ! Because then , He might be too strong for Gary to beat him.

And if Gary beats him anyways? You can't fall back on "it's not an official league" as an excuse when that happens.

Just because they doesn't like Pokemon training doesn't mean they doesn't keep their pokemon !
They simply keep them as pet.

You know, I had pets, yet other than my moving from Connecticut to Georgia when I was a toddler if even that, not once did I EVER bring my pets along for a vacation, even when we drove there, and most of my neighbors really didn't do that either.

Are you guaranty it ? Have you seen any of Lola's water pokemon in the gym ?
Have you seen any pokemon that doesn't belong to Brock or Foster ?
Also , Didn't you notice that they also took Brock's Ludicolo with them ?

Yeah, I noticed, and Lola's probably the only one who actually DID bring her Pokémon along. However, there's absolutely no guarantee that Flint brought his Pokémon along.

May's mother Caroline never shown any pokemon but she did tried to catch a Tantacool in the flashback! Do you think she just like Ash who throw empty pokeball at pokemon.

Yeah, she had Pokémon there, especially with that Pokeball, but that doesn't mean all people who travel have Pokémon.

We did saw Misty & Jessie competing against many of their competitor.
But they were so weak that they didn't last a second against an experience trainer! Its a shame Misty used Borrowed pokemon when May , Dawn and even Serena could have won it using their own pokemon.

1. We really don't see whether they were strong. And we don't actually SEE them fight against all the characters. Just four of them, and there were a LOT more than just four trainers they had to fight against.

2. Using borrowed Pokémon is NOT a sign of weakness. In fact, if anything, being able to use borrowed Pokémon and command them effectively as if they were your own is a sign of being a very skilled trainer. That Pokémon League Exam episode even made that explicit, where Ash and James LITERALLY had to run on borrowed Pokémon for part of the exam.

It doesn't matter because he not the one arguing about that Beauty Pageant qualifying or eliminating anyone .

And again, if it was NOT what the Japanese version had in mind, he would have stated it, especially when he's a bit biased for the Japanese version over the dub.

Rare candies doesn't turn pokemon into Godzila size monsters.
It was nothing more then a untested experimental candy that Dr.Gordon accidentally invented.

Except in the Japanese version, it was called Rare Candy (or rather,

Puni-chan appeared until September so that's the "End" Month.

No, it appeared on an artwork that could be either for July or August since it is used for BOTH months. The only thing that's clear is that the LATEST it CAN go is September. I find it far more likely that it will last until either Movie 19 or the episode that airs after it, since that's when it will be appearing as its 100% form.

So , Did the Movie was made all by itself ? Obviously , The Movie was made by a studio while the Producer paying for it.
Those who made the movie knew what they are advertizing !

Hidaka didn't, though, and they even had to ask twice just to make sure he wasn't fibbing.

Are you sure it got canceled because of Low Rating ? There are many people for an Anime to get canceled.
For example : Cartoon Network pull the plug on Love-hina because of Lousy Voice acting.

It got cancelled in Japan because of, and I quote, "an unexpected loss of money." That points to very bad ratings (ratings basically translate to how much money a person can earn and are a show's lifeline).

Its a Kids Anime , Not some mature Shoujo !
In here its better for both Ash & The girl to be unaware of their own growing feeling toward one another until they grow older to understand it.
Thats why , Most Kids Anime doesn't have confession or Dating ! They just have a flash forward future to show whom the protagonist married.

Well yeah, except Love at First Sight is a common kids thing as well. Just look at Disney films. Heck, even Pokémon has done that a few times, albeit with COTDs, and it can be argued that Serena DID have love at first sight (though even there, Ash doesn't reciprocate or even notice her feelings, so it still is disqualified).

In that case , Ash would be An Aura-guardian without receiving any training since he won the Rota Tournament.
Dude , Alpha Omega is just a title!

By that logic, Pokémon Master and Top Coordinator's just a title as well, so even Ash winning the league and beating the Elite 4/Champion doesn't mean he becomes one, and in fact, he'll never become one, neither will May or Dawn.

Then she won't leave the Gym to them ! Viola , Fantina & Byron often leave the gym empty So their is no problem if Misty leave to compete in Whirl Cup .

Do you really think Misty would let the gym be shut down. And like I said, the PIA stinks regarding inspections considering how they let Pewter Gym pass when Lola and Flint ran it despite having even more stuff deserving of it being shut down as A Family that Battles Together Stays Together demonstrated.

Why you competing Misty goal with Ash ?
Ash travel around the whole year collecting Gym badge to compete in Pokemon League while Misty just follow Ash around hoping something related to Water Pokemon will pop up .
That's not a quest .

First of all the "whole year" bit was dub added. Second of all, Misty actively did find ways to satiate her Water Pokémon goal, so it IS a quest. And besides, even when Ash did win the Orange Cup and the Battle Frontier, stuff that otherwise matched the Gym Badge quest, he still continued, so by definition, it's not a quest either (after all, a quest ends when you've accomplished the goal, so he has no reason to continue in either case).

Pewter City came more close to be shut down then Cerulean Gym.
Also , If PIA doesn't have problem with a robot running a gym while the Leader running around then they doesn't have the right to judge Misty.
Not to mention Volker giving off Free Badges.

Yeah, actually, they DO, since they're the ones who make or break gyms. And I'm not even sure if Pewter City came closer to being shut down, at least while Flint or Lola were running it (can't say about when Forrest was running it). If anything, it just seemed to pass with flying colors especially when Flint and Lola never even MENTIONED a problem with the PIA in their hoso episode. And we definitely know they had to have inspected Pewter Gym beforehand since they made clear Cerulean Gym was the end of the road for inspections in Kanto.

Then how come Cynthia , Alder and Diantha are the only champion to use all type of Pokemon.

That actually proves my point, as Champions, which since DP are considered Pokémon Masters, generally do have one type of Pokémon. And besides, Dent and his brothers use multiple types for their Gym (Fire, Grass, Water), and in the games where Blue was made Gym Leader, at best only ONE Pokémon on his team actually MATCHED Ground Types. Not to mention even in the Anime, Giovanni despite the gym specifically going for Ground Types, only had Golem (part ground) and Rhydon (again, part Ground) as part of the Gym Lineup, as it included Pokémon that clearly WEREN'T Ground types at all (Two Kinglers, a Machamp, not to mention Mewtwo), and even in the games, Giovanni had at LEAST one Pokémon that wasn't Ground as well (Kangaskhan). And if becoming a Water Pokémon Master truly involved running the Gym, she would NOT have left the gym in the first place.

In that case , Iris winning Don Tournament and battling Dreydan should be a Side-quest as well.
Even though , She couldn't even fulfill one job that Ash able to do .
Seriously , If Ash evolve Noibat then that should make him a Dragon Master.

It is, and her desire to become a Dragon Pokémon Master WAS treated as a quest, and unlike Misty, actually was ALLOWED to continue her goal.

FYI : Clair isn't from Dragon Village but she still a Dragon Master.

1. She never was considered that in the Anime, not even by herself. 2., Even in the games, the one time she was actually called that, she was inferior to her cousin, Lance, who was not only an Elite 4 member, but also the reigning champion, and the only one who actually said she was that was her, which considering how she was a huge narcissist in the game to such an extent that she actually forced the player to get a Dragon fang in the cave out of spite for losing against the player, that's not exactly evidence.

Misty got replaced too !
Also May was not only Ash's equal , She practically overshadowed him.
Ash barely didn't had any competition at all.
Basically , Everything in AG seem to be focus on May & Her Contest!
It felt like the new stuff who took over the show saw May as the Protagonist and Drew as the hero while Ash just a supporting character .
Ash merely got focus in Gym or Movies.

Yeah, I know, which is why I can't consider Misty a co-star either. Unless May actually stayed in DP, she can't be a co-star by definition.

Also , Have you even seen the movie ? Because May never Abandoned Manaphy , She run right behind it when the Sea Temple was collapsing.
Furthermore , It was May's word that awakened Ash and give him the strength to fix the Sea temple.

I did see the movie, and I was referring to when Captain Phantom basically snuck up and abducted Manaphy in a rather obvious manner (for goodness sakes, we actually see his hat inching up to them) just after Ash saved the temple. I was disgusted with how she just let Phantom abduct Manaphy without even putting up a fight (if anything, it required Ash ripping off both Sonic the Hedgehog's Chaos Emeralds/Super States and Dragon Ball Z's Super Saiyans to save Manaphy), not to mention not even aid Ash in any way (she just boarded a sub). Come on! She has a Squirtle, which is stated to catch up to ski jets in terms of swimming speed, she could have at least used that to save Phantom. She's basically his mom, for crying out loud! At least actually HAVE her demonstrate a Mother Bear instinct at that point in the movie. I could have respected her getting Manaphy despite that movie not even fitting her as long as she at LEAST demonstrated being a mother at the most opportune time, but she didn't.

Yet his DP , BW and XY outfit has striking resemblance with the Games main character outfit.

No, it doesn't. Luca's outfit has a white stripe on the coat, Ash has a yellow stripe. Also, Lucas has a scarf. Ash doesn't. Not to mention the shoes were different as well. And for Hilbert, the hat's completely different as well. And Ash has a yellow zipper instead of white and has more white than light blue on the jacket. And for Calem, he doesn't even REMOTELY look like Calem at all, different hat, different outfit, all of that. He doesn't even have shades. There are plenty of stark differences for the outfits.

Which make it more courageous because the strongest guy wasn't around to save her .

Vegeta's pretty strong as well, and in fact, most of the Z-Fighters were no slouches, so that's not exactly enough there.

Ash did it to prove Caterpie's strength specially after Misty insult it and hurt its feeling.

Which basically nearly got it killed and devoured, which was a horrible way to do it, and actually gloated about how he was the greatest despite nearly getting it killed. And anyways, he also used Caterpie after his earlier attempt at just capturing Pidgeotto failed.

She didn't do it out of her love for Caterpie ! She was simply criticizing Ash.

I never said she did it out of love for Caterpie, nor is it what I meant to say either, I just said she stood up for him. It doesn't require love for someone to stand up for someone. Compassion, sure, but not love. Don't forget, Harry Potter spared Peter Pettigrew in Prisoner of Azkaban, even though he utterly hated Peter and had every reason to want him dead for his role in his parents' murder, even stopping Sirius Black and Professor Lupin.

At least , she doesn't insult Bugs pokemon for being gross! Misty & Bulma both had their own flaws.

Again, never denied that Misty had flaws, but she was certainly a better character than Bulma.

There is no love at first slight in Kids Anime!
Just because Mayl and Lan got married doesn't mean Ash & Misty would suffer the same fact.
For example : Tai and Sora didn't end up together despite all the hint pointing toward them.
Instate , The Anime giving more hint toward Tracey and Misty since AG series.

The only hint towards Misty and Tracey they actually had in the AG series was the Luvdisc episode, and considering that was just two Luvdisc using attract, not to mention Daisy's overactive imagination, that's not exactly enough to indicate that they're going to be a couple. And besides which, we can't be so sure that Azurill is much of a hint either. For all we know, he just called Misty to pick it up because, hey, it evolves into a Water type and he knows Misty likes Water Pokémon. Being a friend, in other words.

Also, there is love at first sight in Kids Anime as well. We had two rip-offs of Romeo and Juliet (technically three), and there was Brock's infatuation with the Ghost of Maiden's Peak, not to mention the episode where a boy-crazy/wedding-crazy girl goes all damsel in distress for Brock and James in Johto. Heck, we can even label Serena going love at first sight for Ash as well.

After the stunt Ash pulled in Sea Temple , Any girl would be head over the hill for him.
The Only problem is Drew and Atsuhiro Tomioka's love for this guy.
Off Course , Junichi Masuda use an "Advanceshipping" fanart in his Twitter account.

She still didn't fall for him, and in fact didn't even give a heartfelt goodbye to Ash when she left for Johto, something even Dawn did at the end of DP, and she actually had a possible shipping partner in the form of that childhood friend of hers.

Who the hell is Nickstr ? Don't use some hack game to prove your point !

Nickstr is a user on here, as well as a Misty fan, and he actually DID win with a Water-type team, WITHOUT hacks, I should add.

Pokemon Contest is Side-quest in Anime and by far the Best one since its shown a different type of Battling.

It doesn't, really, not in the games, and besides, they replaced May with Dawn, which won't work here.

Here the thing , Since when Misty is a playable character ?
Don't dare to use Hack games ! It made by another Misty fan who wanted Misty to be same as May & Dawn.
There is no end credit in Anime , Also ORAS has an entire ark on Contest.
Also , The Anime replace May with Dawn to promote Diamond and Pearl while giving new Eye-candies to boys .
That Interview answered the question .

She was an actual Player Character in Pokémon Puzzle League, actually.

And you know what I mean by "end credits." I mean it's actually REQUIRED to beating the game or actually can have the player end the game. Beating evil teams is a requirement to beating the game, beating Gyms is a requirement, heck, beating the Pokémon League or beating Red in the case of Generation II/IV is a requirement. Beating Contests? No, it's not a requirement. And if the Anime truly is just an advertisement for the games, they should stick to how the GAMES treated contests.

The Current style doesn't fit Pokemon ether ! Pokemon is Gag battle anime , not a Japanese version of Dragon tales.
Currently , People can't enjoy the filler because they too focus on Ash's goal So all filler seem unbearable .
And we already seen what happen when Writers screw the League in BW Series.
So , People will enjoy filler if Ash already accomplish his goal to be a Champion Master! Afterward , The Anime could focus on Ash dealing with Bad Guys while also facing similar issue a real 12 year old boy face in real life.

True, but making it as serious as Batman: Under the Red Hood isn't a good decision either. He still needs to age, though, since at least then, his journey becomes more plausible.

 

[DBZ fan]

To Famon:Even though this may be totally uselels since you dont read my posts for some reason i still feel need to clarify on certain things regardless.

Your right in sense of Misty water pokemon master careers not being structured in way like contests were in having chain of defined competitions through which someone growth could be measured. Partially because of writers inexperience with Misty being their first girl and tone of anime being mainly centralized around Ash and his quest.

While other part of reason came from atmosphere of anime itself being much more centralized on adventure aspects, humor, build of friendship between protagonists and exploration of their personalities. Rather than training and actively focusing on character careers.

Hence why Misty received lot of personality growth(more than any pokemon girl except May), but wasn't developed as much in her career sense.

However since day one Misty water pokemon master goal has been established as quest in theoretical sense.
It was portrayed as career which requires traveling, capturing all kind of new water pokemon and learning about their unique features. Compete in tournaments with strong competition and meet other renowned water specialists such as water trainer Marina, E4 Lorelei, Wallace etc in realizing how to overcome water pokemon weaknesses achieving mastery over them.

Thats reason why Misty left gym and started traveling in first place since at gym you cannot achieve this goal.

Speaking of Whirl Cup; winning it wont make you water pokemon master instantly. BUT by winning it you gain title "Alpha Omega of Water pokemon!" which according to sea priestess Maya and Whirl islands tradition was one of achievements required in order to be won and acquired to advance dream of becoming water master. Due to delicate connections between Whirl Cup and water pokemon master title it was established to exist there.

Meaning how there may likely exist other tournaments and tasks to win aside from Whirl Cup in order to become water master and prove yourself on global basis as capable and skilled water expert.JUst like in Ash case after winning regional league, there exists champion league and who knows what other by now unanswered tests, questions to become pokemon master himself.
So for all intents and purposes Misty career and dreams had just as much legitimity behind them just like contest concept was. Only difference is in Misty dream being less explored.

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I would also like to add how its rather narrowminded and full of prejudices attitude in discarding Misty water based dreams as something "boring and repetitive" just because as oppose to specializing in more, Misty is specializing in single specie of pokemon,.
In advance making preconceived opinion of this "not being possible to work and deliver eventful and creative storyline scattered across pokemon series like contests managed to deliver".
Despite there not existing any evidence to support such theory.

Way i see it trainer which specialize in water types would better promote and represent water types, and appeal behind Misty niche to use one type was never so much in promotion but more in adding something fresh and different on table as opposite to usual career we followed with Ash.

If your going to promote new games some diversity in main cast line up and unpredictability is always desirable. Rather than making every member of main cast as regular ordinary trainer.
Especially when there is also Ash, Brock, TR or whoever additional new character could join cast, countless recurring characters or COTD who promote concept of regular trainer.

In case Misty stayed and in Hoenn or ever returned in Pokemon we could see entirely new and full of unpredictable twists adventure in way character could be developed. We could had water tournaments, underwater battles, pokemon races on water with obstacles. Serving as tests to measure Misty agility, thrust between her pokemon and innovation as water trainer being follow up from Whirl Cup. Just idea of having underwater battles sounds more innovative than contests in reality are posessing bigger challenge and harsher circumstances during battles.

We could see Misty meeting Wallace, Juan, E4 Siebold etc in teaching her and training how to synchronize with water pokemon on closer level working like one. Such as going on quest to collect key stone and mega stone mega evolving her Gyarados, or evolving Psyduck teaching it how to battle controlling its incredible psychic powers,

We could have whole sidequest in Misty skills being acknowledged by pokemon league agent searching for possible inheritor of E4 position once older one retires. Playing on card of Misty idolizing Lorelei and her desire to become famous and expertious like her one day. Making whole storyline where Misty travels to compete in tough competitions passing tests and various strong trainers in proving hersolf as eligible candidate for E4 member one day.
Etc.

Such story arcs we cannot receive from girl coordinators. Being actually interested in seeing mature, tough, resourceful full fledged trainer like Misty develop forward and be in action.

Imo ir would be especially cool if in case of timeskip in pokemon series few years from now on we see Ash deciding to challenge Kanto league as his hometown competition with ambition of winning it. Just to encounter Misty as one of E4 members succeeding her idol Lorelei having to battle her in order to challenge champion.
This would be great way to test how strong their frendship is being on opposite sides as trainers.

But no one wants to even conside possibilities and fun plots enriching on Hoenn journey in case Misty stayed for Hoenn or if she returns to anime nowadays as main character.
Or in her charm, strongwilled attitude, sarcasm temper, maturity and kind, caring personality adding more depth to group dynamic.

Being forever underestimated as far as her stamina and potential goes.

EDIT:
REgarding other points:

We did saw Misty & Jessie competing against many of their competitor.
But they were so weak that they didn't last a second against an experience trainer! Its a shame Misty used Borrowed pokemon when May , Dawn and even Serena could have won it using their own pokemon.

Misty borrowing Ash and Brock pokemon had nothing to do with not being able to win tournament by using only her pokemon.

She asked Ash and Brock to lean her their own pokemon for practical reasons. In wanting to have bigger variety of pokemon types in tournament in order to not find herself in disadvantage if all girls she fought against would be using electric pokemon.

Not to mention of 5 pokemon she had ; Horsea and Goldeen weren't very useful on dry land, Psyduck powers were inconsistent being newly caught. Togepi was newly hatched baby and competition was too long and tyring for just one pokemon to do all the work. Such as Staryu.

Instead of trying to downplay Misty of needing other people pokemon to win. This only worked to her advantage because in Princess festival tournament Misty proved how resourceful, intelligent and skilled as trainer she was in reality.

Due to being able to command and use proficiently various pokemon species, despite never battling with them befotrer. Relying mainly and only on water pokemon until than. But as we saw she quickly adapted in utilizing different pokemon types.

Also we don't know how strong those girls Jessie and Misty fought against were, so we cannot call them weak without any evidence to back up such claims.

Jessie being able to defeat them isn't valid proof because writers showed through course of pokemon anime how they are on purpose inconsistent with TR stregth.

With their power fluctuating from being nothing more than punching bugs to actually pretty respectable opponents. We can see that with James defeating Ash Cyndaquil with Venusaur in Battle park. Doing very good in first pokeringer, winning ribbons for Jessie defeating Dawn Mamoswine. Or Jessie coming far in certain competitions like Princess tournament or Sinnoh contests. With writers deliberately portraying her and James as incompetent and weak for sake of plot to have Ash and good guys save the day.

Then she won't leave the Gym to them ! Viola , Fantina & Byron often leave the gym empty So their is no problem if Misty leave to compete in Whirl Cup .

Episodes "Cerulean Blues!" where pokemon league inspector agency treatened to shut down any gym which is left unattented without substitute. Followed by "A Date with Delcatty!" where Misty complained about sisters irresponsibility running away from any duties saying she has no choice but to stay and take care of gym for time being.
AS well DP special where Pewter gym was endangered to be shut down due to there not existing qualified gym leader to test out upcoming trainers.

Contradict this showing how gym leaders cannot leave whenever they want and deny challengers of battling for badge. Unless substitute is provided performing their tasks during their absence.

Otherwise Cilan wouldn't need his brothers to cover him up in Striaton gym, there would be no need for Clembot with Clemont just locking gym for very long time etc. If there did not exist any danger of town losing its gym.

Reason why Fantina or Viola persay had no problems in leaving their gyms alone for even long time could be due to their gyms not being on particularly traffic route where challengers constantly come and ask for battle. Collecting 8 badges through other gyms and we reliably know how every pokemon region so far proved to have more than 8 gyms due to anime exclusive gym leaders.

Because its very possible how not every district of certain region has enough alternate gyms on trainers route to go and challenge putting certain gym leaders in certain region in more disadvantegous position. On how much liberty and maneuver they have in case of not having someone to cover up for them in case of traveling.

Hence why Misty is in disadvantegous position not leaving gym notb because she wants tio be gym leader, but because she doesn't want that gym gets shut down as family tradition. Basically catch 22 situation.

Why you competing Misty goal with Ash ?
Ash travel around the whole year collecting Gym badge to compete in Pokemon League while Misty just follow Ash around hoping something related to Water Pokemon will pop up .
That's not a quest .

Its quest in theoretical sense as i explained above. You do realize how number of water related themes, touzrnaments, trainers depends solely on writers desite and imagination in how much they wish to do with Misty career?
Because whole water pokemon master goal just like Serena pokemon performance is anime exclusive dream coming from their own head.

Therefore whether Misty is with Ash, travels alone or anyone else focus and number of competitions which will pop up for her to enter depends solely on writers. And how much they want to explore water master title.

Pokemon contests were just minor sidequest in games which didn't had any battling rounds and could have gone the way like Pokethlon, Pokemon Musicals or Orientering did in getting one or two episodes dedicated to them passing of as obscure filler.

Reason why we saw several contests scattered across Hoenn or Sinnoh happened only because writers decided to explore on this careers more.

Something which would have happened with Misty as well receiving follow up from what Whirl Cup and its long tradition established if decision to remove her from anime hasn't been brought.

FYI : Clair isn't from Dragon Village but she still a Dragon Master.

Clair isn't dragon master and have never been named as such in pokemon anime. Shes not dragon master in games either, but on other hand E4 members like Lance, Drake or Drasna in games are marked as dragon pokemon masters.

Jusb like E4 Siebold is called water pokemon master which accompanied with Misty interest in E4 Lorelei being her idol indicates very strongly what kind of position she would need to reach in order to fulfill her dreams.

Also May was not only Ash's equal , She practically overshadowed him.
Ash barely didn't had any competition at all.
Basically , Everything in AG seem to be focus on May & Her Contest!

Talking about blowing things out of proportion. Ash battled, had more character cdentric episodes and focus than May did during whole Hoenn and BF. His pokemon received more focus and development than May pokemon alongside Ash playing in 4 AG movies far bigger role than she in reality did.

May received respectable amount of focus and development about her dreams, but it was still less than what her successor Dawn and Ash overall received.

Also , Have you even seen the movie ? Because May never Abandoned Manaphy , She run right behind it when the Sea Temple was collapsing.
Furthermore , It was May's word that awakened Ash and give him the strength to fix the Sea temple.

Yet in one movie May received dedicated to herself its still Ash who has main word saving the day. Saying alot how in general female leads are royally screwed over in terms of overall significance they play in pokemon movies.

Instate , The Anime giving more hint toward Tracey and Misty since AG series.

Except no signs of romantic affection, jealousy or blush were ever showed to exist between Misty and Tracey. Whole concept of Orangeshipping is based on fans headcanon fantasies with no proof of there existing anythng more than friendship ever being provided.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

To Famon:Even though this may be totally uselels since you dont read my posts for some reason i still feel need to clarify on certain things regardless.

Your right in sense of Misty water pokemon master careers not being structured in way like contests were in having chain of defined competitions through which someone growth could be measured. Partially because of writers inexperience with Misty being their first girl and tone of anime being mainly centralized around Ash and his quest.

While other part of reason came from atmosphere of anime itself being much more centralized on adventure aspects, humor, build of friendship between protagonists and exploration of their personalities. Rather than training and actively focusing on character careers.

Hence why Misty received lot of personality growth(more than any pokemon girl except May), but wasn't developed as much in her career sense.

Fully agreed there. That being said, she certainly got a lot more focus on her goal than Brock ever did, even in Johto.

However since day one Misty water pokemon master goal has been established as quest in theoretical sense.
It was portrayed as career which requires traveling, capturing all kind of new water pokemon and learning about their unique features. Compete in tournaments with strong competition and meet other renowned water specialists such as water trainer Marina, E4 Lorelei, Wallace etc in realizing how to overcome water pokemon weaknesses achieving mastery over them.

Thats reason why Misty left gym and started traveling in first place since at gym you cannot achieve this goal.

Yes, fully agreed. That was how it was portrayed. In fact, it was even mentioned as early as either Bulbasaur and the Hidden Village (where she called dibs on Oddish) or Tentacool and Tentacruel where she explicitly referred to herself as a Water Pokémon Trainer regarding Horsea when realizing what Horsea had been trying to communicate earlier.

Speaking of Whirl Cup; winning it wont make you water pokemon master instantly. BUT by winning it you gain title "Alpha Omega of Water pokemon!" which according to sea priestess Maya and Whirl islands tradition was one of achievements required in order to be won and acquired to advance dream of becoming water master. Due to delicate connections between Whirl Cup and water pokemon master title it was established to exist there.

Meaning how there may likely exist other tournaments and tasks to win aside from Whirl Cup in order to become water master and prove yourself on global basis as capable and skilled water expert.JUst like in Ash case after winning regional league, there exists champion league and who knows what other by now unanswered tests, questions to become pokemon master himself.
So for all intents and purposes Misty career and dreams had just as much legitimity behind them just like contest concept was. Only difference is in Misty dream being less explored.

Fully agreed. Heck, if anything, it actually WAS established or at the very least strongly implied that similar competitions exist there.

I would also like to add how its rather narrowminded and full of prejudices attitude in discarding Misty water based dreams as something "boring and repetitive" just because as oppose to specializing in more, Misty is specializing in single specie of pokemon,.
In advance making preconceived opinion of this "not being possible to work and deliver eventful and creative storyline scattered across pokemon series like contests managed to deliver".
Despite there not existing any evidence to support such theory.

Yeah, agreed. If they can expand Pokémon Contests to being League-level despite being at best filler material in the games, they most CERTAINLY can do the same for Misty's Water Pokémon Master goal. Heck, if anything, Hoenn acted as the perfect opportunity to expand on her goal.

Way i see it trainer which specialize in water types would better promote and represent water types, and appeal behind Misty niche to use one type was never so much in promotion but more in adding something fresh and different on table as opposite to usual career we followed with Ash.

If your going to promote new games some diversity in main cast line up and unpredictability is always desirable. Rather than making every member of main cast as regular ordinary trainer.
Especially when there is also Ash, Brock, TR or whoever additional new character could join cast, countless recurring characters or COTD who promote concept of regular trainer.

In case Misty stayed and in Hoenn or ever returned in Pokemon we could see entirely new and full of unpredictable twists adventure in way character could be developed. We could had water tournaments, underwater battles, pokemon races on water with obstacles. Serving as tests to measure Misty agility, thrust between her pokemon and innovation as water trainer being follow up from Whirl Cup. Just idea of having underwater battles sounds more innovative than contests in reality are posessing bigger challenge and harsher circumstances during battles.

We could see Misty meeting Wallace, Juan, E4 Siebold etc in teaching her and training how to synchronize with water pokemon on closer level working like one. Such as going on quest to collect key stone and mega stone mega evolving her Gyarados, or evolving Psyduck teaching it how to battle controlling its incredible psychic powers,

We could have whole sidequest in Misty skills being acknowledged by pokemon league agent searching for possible inheritor of E4 position once older one retires. Playing on card of Misty idolizing Lorelei and her desire to become famous and expertious like her one day. Making whole storyline where Misty travels to compete in tough competitions passing tests and various strong trainers in proving hersolf as eligible candidate for E4 member one day.
Etc.

Agreed with all of that. Heck, they can even expand that whole Whirl Cup aspect and even include tokens to actually allow for her to compete in it as a League-level arc.

Such story arcs we cannot receive from girl coordinators. Being actually interested in seeing mature, tough, resourceful full fledged trainer like Misty develop forward and be in action.

Fully agreed there. Heck, such story arcs right now aren't even a factor with Ash right now, especially with how they love resetting characters.

Imo ir would be especially cool if in case of timeskip in pokemon series few years from now on we see Ash deciding to challenge Kanto league as his hometown competition with ambition of winning it. Just to encounter Misty as one of E4 members succeeding her idol Lorelei having to battle her in order to challenge champion.
This would be great way to test how strong their frendship is being on opposite sides as trainers.

Yeah, that definitely would have been very awesome.

But no one wants to even conside possibilities and fun plots enriching on Hoenn journey in case Misty stayed for Hoenn or if she returns to anime nowadays as main character.
Or in her charm, strongwilled attitude, sarcasm temper, maturity and kind, caring personality adding more depth to group dynamic.

Being forever underestimated as far as her stamina and potential goes.

I want to consider it to be honest.

Misty borrowing Ash and Brock pokemon had nothing to do with not being able to win tournament by using only her pokemon.

She asked Ash and Brock to lean her their own pokemon for practical reasons. In wanting to have bigger variety of pokemon types in tournament in order to not find herself in disadvantage if all girls she fought against would be using electric pokemon.

Yeah, agreed, and if anything, the fact that she was even able to command various Pokémon that weren't even her own nor even her own preferred type shows just how much potential she has as a trainer. This was even emphasized in that Pokémon Exam episode.

Not to mention of 5 pokemon she had ; Horsea and Goldeen weren't very useful on dry land, Psyduck powers were inconsistent being newly caught. Togepi was newly hatched baby and competition was too long and tyring for just one pokemon to do all the work. Such as Staryu.

Yeah, and it would have been taxing for two Pokémon anyways, so that leaves out Starmie as well. We don't even know if Togepi was even part of the group at the time, as we don't even see it with the group at all, so there's that to consider. Not to mention Psyduck's been proven to be unreliable for anything except when it has a headache. In fact, probably the only reason Psyduck didn't even flinch from Lickitung's attacks, let alone faint, is because Lickitung wasn't even a serious fighter (it just treated Pikachu, Bulbasaur, and Vulpix as a tasting contest, something made explicit in the Japanese version). The Japanese version if anything basically emphasized Jessie was going to lose the moment Lickitung came out when Brock pointed out that he was just treating the entire affair as a tasting contest and not actually fighting seriously, which was even reinforced when Lickitung ended up disobeying Jessie due to hunger (in the Japanese version, its stomach gurgled, emphasizing it wasn't willing to fight unless it eats. This was downplayed in the dub due to the choice of background music drowning out the gurgling sound effects).

Instead of trying to downplay Misty of needing other people pokemon to win. This only worked to her advantage because in Princess festival tournament Misty proved how resourceful, intelligent and skilled as trainer she was in reality.

Due to being able to command and use proficiently various pokemon species, despite never battling with them befotrer. Relying mainly and only on water pokemon until than. But as we saw she quickly adapted in utilizing different pokemon types.

Yes, agreed, it shows her prowess if anything.

Also we don't know how strong those girls Jessie and Misty fought against were, so we cannot call them weak without any evidence to back up such claims.

Yeah, agreed. We can't determine how strong they were since we know literally NOTHING about the other competitors other than that they are apparently massive fangirls of Fiorella Cappuccino. They could have even been Elite 4 level for all we know.

Jessie being able to defeat them isn't valid proof because writers showed through course of pokemon anime how they are on purpose inconsistent with TR stregth.

With their power fluctuating from being nothing more than punching bugs to actually pretty respectable opponents. We can see that with James defeating Ash Cyndaquil with Venusaur in Battle park. Doing very good in first pokeringer, winning ribbons for Jessie defeating Dawn Mamoswine. Or Jessie coming far in certain competitions like Princess tournament or Sinnoh contests. With writers deliberately portraying her and James as incompetent and weak for sake of plot to have Ash and good guys save the day.

Fully agreed there. At best, the only confirmation of their being abysmal trainers is the fact that they frequently get bashed and considered weak as late as Johto, sometimes within earshot. Heck, at times they even fluctuate in the same episode. Take Episode 3, for example: Team Rocket had enough prowess to force Pikachu to not fight and even managed to take out Pidgeotto, yet they couldn't even beat a Caterpie who was near-death and obviously inexperienced compared to them.

Episodes "Cerulean Blues!" where pokemon league inspector agency treatened to shut down any gym which is left unattented without substitute. Followed by "A Date with Delcatty!" where Misty complained about sisters irresponsibility running away from any duties saying she has no choice but to stay and take care of gym for time being.
AS well DP special where Pewter gym was endangered to be shut down due to there not existing qualified gym leader to test out upcoming trainers.

Contradict this showing how gym leaders cannot leave whenever they want and deny challengers of battling for badge. Unless substitute is provided performing their tasks during their absence.

Otherwise Cilan wouldn't need his brothers to cover him up in Striaton gym, there would be no need for Clembot with Clemont just locking gym for very long time etc. If there did not exist any danger of town losing its gym.

Yeah, fully agreed there. There's more pointing to them NOT being allowed to leave the gym than there actually being allowed to leave the gym, which if anything should reinforce that Misty DIDN'T have a choice but to stay at Cerulean City.

Reason why Fantina or Viola persay had no problems in leaving their gyms alone for even long time could be due to their gyms not being on particularly traffic route where challengers constantly come and ask for battle. Collecting 8 badges through other gyms and we reliably know how every pokemon region so far proved to have more than 8 gyms due to anime exclusive gym leaders.

And in the case of Fantina specifically, the ONLY reason that occurred was because at the time the episode was made, the Generation IV games were still with Diamond and Pearl, which featured her as the fifth Gym Leader for no real reason, and since they couldn't just have her refuse due to it conflicting with prior established information, they just made her absent. Remember, we didn't get Platinum, the game that swapped around Fantina, Maylene, Crasher Wake, released until after Ash beat Crasher Wake. Not to mention since AG, or at the very least Johto, they couldn't just deviate from the path of the games.

Because its very possible how not every district of certain region has enough alternate gyms on trainers route to go and challenge putting certain gym leaders in certain region in more disadvantegous position. On how much liberty and maneuver they have in case of not having someone to cover up for them in case of traveling.

Hence why Misty is in disadvantegous position not leaving gym notb because she wants tio be gym leader, but because she doesn't want that gym gets shut down as family tradition. Basically catch 22 situation.

Yeah, and if anything the above is more emphasis on how Misty is forced to act as Gym Leader. Heck, she even came close to rejoining Ash and co, but then her sisters called in and basically said they'll hand out badges regardless of what she wishes if she doesn't return pronto.

Its quest in theoretical sense as i explained above. You do realize how number of water related themes, touzrnaments, trainers depends solely on writers desite and imagination in how much they wish to do with Misty career?
Because whole water pokemon master goal just like Serena pokemon performance is anime exclusive dream coming from their own head.

Therefore whether Misty is with Ash, travels alone or anyone else focus and number of competitions which will pop up for her to enter depends solely on writers. And how much they want to explore water master title.

Yeah, fully agreed with that. And technically, she never even gave up on her dream, not willingly anyways.

Pokemon contests were just minor sidequest in games which didn't had any battling rounds and could have gone the way like Pokethlon, Pokemon Musicals or Orientering did in getting one or two episodes dedicated to them passing of as obscure filler.

Reason why we saw several contests scattered across Hoenn or Sinnoh happened only because writers decided to explore on this careers more.

Something which would have happened with Misty as well receiving follow up from what Whirl Cup and its long tradition established if decision to remove her from anime hasn't been brought.

Excellent point there. If they can expand Pokémon Contests from something that would at best have been obscure filler material into a full fledged character arc comparable to Pokémon Leagues, they most certainly can do the same for Water Pokémon Master.

Clair isn't dragon master and have never been named as such in pokemon anime. Shes not dragon master in games either, but on other hand E4 members like Lance, Drake or Drasna in games are marked as dragon pokemon masters.

Jusb like E4 Siebold is called water pokemon master which accompanied with Misty interest in E4 Lorelei being her idol indicates very strongly what kind of position she would need to reach in order to fulfill her dreams.

Yeah, agreed. And even IF Clair had been called that in the games, it was self-proclaimed at best, and was obviously untrue due to Lance's existence.

Talking about blowing things out of proportion. Ash battled, had more character cdentric episodes and focus than May did during whole Hoenn and BF. His pokemon received more focus and development than May pokemon alongside Ash playing in 4 AG movies far bigger role than she in reality did.

May received respectable amount of focus and development about her dreams, but it was still less than what her successor Dawn and Ash overall received.

I agree overall, though I can sort of see what Famon is getting at, considering that throughout AG, Ash didn't seem to develop in goals at all (heck, he stayed at the exact same rank in Hoenn as he did in Johto, which until Best Wishes and the disastrous Unova League resulted in the worst turnout for Ash ever), and even his one major accomplishment throughout AG, the Battle Frontier, ended up treated as a joke with Gary beating him despite the latter being retired from Pokémon training (plus Paul basically curbstomping Ash twice, the second time with no justifiable excuse for Ursaring, a verified rookie, beating Pikachu, who took out a friggin' Regice with minimal effort).

Yet in one movie May received dedicated to herself its still Ash who has main word saving the day. Saying alot how in general female leads are royally screwed over in terms of overall significance they play in pokemon movies.

Not to mention in May's case, it really made her out to be a terrible mother to Manaphy as a result, abandoning her own kid to Phantom out of fear and not doing ANYTHING to even attempt to stop Phantom at all, even when it was in her power.

Except no signs of romantic affection, jealousy or blush were ever showed to exist between Misty and Tracey. Whole concept of Orangeshipping is based on fans headcanon fantasies with no proof of there existing anythng more than friendship ever being provided.

Yeah, agreed. Probably the closest we got to an actual canon hint at Orangeshipping was in "Luvsdisc is a most splendored thing." Even THEN, most of it came from Daisy's overactive imagination, and even the one bit that can be considered real, they weren't even themselves at the time (long story short, the Luvdiscs used attracted, affecting Misty and Tracey as part of their roles in the play). If anything, the fact that Misty and Tracey even NEEDED attract to even temporarily act loving to each other suggests they AREN'T romantically involved at all.

And as a closing point, there's plenty of reasons for Ash needing to age or otherwise get the boot, preferably aging, since let's face it, this is effectively a Rocky Balboa show, and you need to have aging to ensure there's an impact there. And besides, Dragon Ball had something similar and the characters in that series DID Age.

 

[yillbs]

Misty, and brock could come back at parents... plot twist!

 

[Kaiyu]

Yes they seriously need to.... -o- They always look the same and the only thing that changes is their outfits. The main reason why I stopped watching Pokémon was because of this. If they at least make everyone a few years older I might start watching it again.

 

[*Luxio//Hacks*]

The reason why that Ash never grow up is because it's to attract more little kids and they wanted to grow up with Pokemon so bad. There, it's brings more newer fan and force their parents to buy Pokemon games for them.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

The reason why that Ash never grow up is because it's to attract more little kids and they wanted to grow up with Pokemon so bad. There, it's brings more newer fan and force their parents to buy Pokemon games for them.

Like I said, they clearly failed since their ratings stagnated, which is extremely unlikely to occur regularly especially among the child audience.

 

[LordGrizz]

I think pokemon could see a resurgence if the characters got older and the series took a slightly more serious tone. Hell from what I've seen pokemon origins was well received even though it was only 4 episodes long that skipped a lot of stuff. If you made ash 16 it would be like plenty of animes out there. I mean realistically whens the last time you watched an anime where the main character was out of his teens (one-punch man being the first to come to my mind having watched it last night XD).

 

[Famon]

No, it's not "forcing" her at all. Forcing her to do something would be more if she didn't want it yet they ended up making her do it anyways via a proverbial gun to the back. And like I said, that would make her and the Elite 4 look extremely bad and foolish if they did that, and use common sense, do you REALLY think they would disrespect what the Anime made clear was among the strongest trainers of the world and having a very high reputation to them look like idiots by doing that?

Why don't you use your commonsense for a chance ??
Your treating some non-existent Anime character as real people with real feeling when its obvious that all their will is controlled by the writers.
Agatha was forced by the writers to encourage Ash for Battle Frontier ! Even if she doesn't act like being forced.
Its just like Ash was forced to lose to the likes of Trash Trip and Cameron because Writer wanted them to win .
And Instate of being Ashamed and go on a training journey , Ash happy-happy go on Kiddy adventure shamelessly.
Its because Writer wanted him too !

And if Gary beats him anyways? You can't fall back on "it's not an official league" as an excuse when that happens.

What if He doesn't ?
What if Misty reappear in XY series as a Water pokemon Master without ever leaving the Gym ?
What if Misty claimed that she love being the Gym-leader ?
There are so many "What if" Scenario so you can not claim anything based on it.

You know, I had pets, yet other than my moving from Connecticut to Georgia when I was a toddler if even that, not once did I EVER bring my pets along for a vacation, even when we drove there, and most of my neighbors really didn't do that either.

Are you really comparing Real World with Pokemon World ? You can't put your pet inside little capsule in Real World.
Misty's sister confirmed to have their own pokemon! Its safes to assume that they took their close one with them.

Yeah, I noticed, and Lola's probably the only one who actually DID bring her Pokémon along. However, there's absolutely no guarantee that Flint brought his Pokémon along.

Their absolutely no confirmation that Filnt didn't brought in pokemon Considering that we only seen Brock's pokemon in the gym.
Filnt probably had his pokemon in his Pokeball like his wife.

Yeah, she had Pokémon there, especially with that Pokeball, but that doesn't mean all people who travel have Pokémon.

May herself said that She wasn't allowed to travel without A pokemon !
What more then you need ?

1. We really don't see whether they were strong. And we don't actually SEE them fight against all the characters. Just four of them, and there were a LOT more than just four trainers they had to fight against.

We seen enough! Those girls wasn't actual trainers to begin with , They were just bunch of Fangirls who wanted Photo with a Hot Actor.
That's Why , Even Original Jessie reached the final round even though Team Rocket was on their weakest in Original series.

2. Using borrowed Pokémon is NOT a sign of weakness. In fact, if anything, being able to use borrowed Pokémon and command them effectively as if they were your own is a sign of being a very skilled trainer. That Pokémon League Exam episode even made that explicit, where Ash and James LITERALLY had to run on borrowed Pokémon for part of the exam.

But it shows that Misty had more faith in others pokemon then her own pokemon !

Except in the Japanese version, it was called Rare Candy (or rather,

Rare Candy doesn't make Pokemon building Size !

Hidaka didn't, though, and they even had to ask twice just to make sure he wasn't fibbing.

he's no longer the Directors , It doesn't matter what he know or Don't know .
A movie was made to promote giratina & Plantium ! That movie had a Director and Producers.

It got cancelled in Japan because of, and I quote, "an unexpected loss of money." That points to very bad ratings (ratings basically translate to how much money a person can earn and are a show's lifeline).

Since when Rating determine money ? Rating only show how many people watching it on TV .
The main reason many low rated anime (Yugioh , Battle Spirit and PreCure) still running because of all the money they earn.
There are a lot of meaning behind that phrase such as Production cost , lawsuit , Dept etc etc.

Well yeah, except Love at First Sight is a common kids thing as well. Just look at Disney films. Heck, even Pokémon has done that a few times, albeit with COTDs, and it can be argued that Serena DID have love at first sight (though even there, Ash doesn't reciprocate or even notice her feelings, so it still is disqualified).

Disney Film=/=Anime !
They are many more anime couple with no love in first sight such as Ranma & Akane (Ranma1/2) , Ushi and Misaki (Maid Sama) , Ryuji & Taiga (Toradora) etc etc .
Better and interesting couples screw "Love at first sight" in Anime .

By that logic, Pokémon Master and Top Coordinator's just a title as well, so even Ash winning the league and beating the Elite 4/Champion doesn't mean he becomes one, and in fact, he'll never become one, neither will May or Dawn.

Pokemon Master is still mystery and possibly a made-up title since Ash is only one to ever mention Pokemon Master .
Plus , Ash already explained at the end that his goal is to participate in Champion league to be Champion Master in DP.
However , Whirl Cup only give the title of "Alpha Omega" , Not Master !

Do you really think Misty would let the gym be shut down. And like I said, the PIA stinks regarding inspections considering how they let Pewter Gym pass when Lola and Flint ran it despite having even more stuff deserving of it being shut down as A Family that Battles Together Stays Together demonstrated.

If Viola , Clair , Fantina , Byron , Grant and Candice leave the Gym for other business then Why can't Misty ?
Does PIA goal is to make Kento Gym-leader life miserable ?
Who took care of Clair's Gym when she appear in Deckora Island and decide to go to Unova to visit Drayden and Dragon Village ?
Unova is very far away then Jotho considering that Pikachu was treated like a Rare pokemon.
Compare to that , Misty leaving Gym to compete in Whirl Cup is nothing ! She might have already won Whirl Cup and became Alpha Omega.

First of all the "whole year" bit was dub added. Second of all, Misty actively did find ways to satiate her Water Pokémon goal, so it IS a quest. And besides, even when Ash did win the Orange Cup and the Battle Frontier, stuff that otherwise matched the Gym Badge quest, he still continued, so by definition, it's not a quest either (after all, a quest ends when you've accomplished the goal, so he has no reason to continue in either case).

It was mentioned 3 time and you claiming all of them were Dub added .
Even in AG , Ash told May that there won't be another Grand Festival for a year when she decided to sacrifice her only chance to compete there to find Max.

That actually proves my point, as Champions, which since DP are considered Pokémon Masters, generally do have one type of Pokémon. And besides, Dent and his brothers use multiple types for their Gym (Fire, Grass, Water), and in the games where Blue was made Gym Leader, at best only ONE Pokémon on his team actually MATCHED Ground Types. Not to mention even in the Anime, Giovanni despite the gym specifically going for Ground Types, only had Golem (part ground) and Rhydon (again, part Ground) as part of the Gym Lineup, as it included Pokémon that clearly WEREN'T Ground types at all (Two Kinglers, a Machamp, not to mention Mewtwo), and even in the games, Giovanni had at LEAST one Pokémon that wasn't Ground as well (Kangaskhan). And if becoming a Water Pokémon Master truly involved running the Gym, she would NOT have left the gym in the first place.

Except , If Misty start collecting badge then she will be Ash's rival , not protagonist !

It is, and her desire to become a Dragon Pokémon Master WAS treated as a quest, and unlike Misty, actually was ALLOWED to continue her goal.

No she didn't , Considering that she only followed Ash around !

I did see the movie, and I was referring to when Captain Phantom basically snuck up and abducted Manaphy in a rather obvious manner (for goodness sakes, we actually see his hat inching up to them) just after Ash saved the temple. I was disgusted with how she just let Phantom abduct Manaphy without even putting up a fight (if anything, it required Ash ripping off both Sonic the Hedgehog's Chaos Emeralds/Super States and Dragon Ball Z's Super Saiyans to save Manaphy), not to mention not even aid Ash in any way (she just boarded a sub). Come on! She has a Squirtle, which is stated to catch up to ski jets in terms of swimming speed, she could have at least used that to save Phantom. She's basically his mom, for crying out loud! At least actually HAVE her demonstrate a Mother Bear instinct at that point in the movie. I could have respected her getting Manaphy despite that movie not even fitting her as long as she at LEAST demonstrated being a mother at the most opportune time, but she didn't.

You might not noticed that Pikachu was right beside Manaphy and even he couldn't do anything !
May was already too concern about Ash's possibility of "dying" when Phantom sneak up.
Plus , Did you even seen her Squirtal ? It was itself younger and less stronger then your average Squirtal.
Do you honestly think it has enough strength to carry May and follow Phantom ?
Plus , Ash shown up before May could do anything !
Plus , Why didn't Ash used Corephise in the Sea Temple ? Why he decide to run when he had Sceptile to fight Phantom ? Was he a Coward ?

1. She never was considered that in the Anime, not even by herself. 2., Even in the games, the one time she was actually called that, she was inferior to her cousin, Lance, who was not only an Elite 4 member, but also the reigning champion, and the only one who actually said she was that was her, which considering how she was a huge narcissist in the game to such an extent that she actually forced the player to get a Dragon fang in the cave out of spite for losing against the player, that's not exactly evidence.

Lance is the Champion so obviously Clair is inferior to him !
Dreyden is a Dragon Master so do you think he stronger then Lance ? Not to mention , he is a Gym-leader as well .
Dragon is far superior type then Water pokemon ! And it hard to find one because of their rarity.
So , A Dragon Master should have higher position .

No, it doesn't. Luca's outfit has a white stripe on the coat, Ash has a yellow stripe. Also, Lucas has a scarf. Ash doesn't. Not to mention the shoes were different as well. And for Hilbert, the hat's completely different as well. And Ash has a yellow zipper instead of white and has more white than light blue on the jacket. And for Calem, he doesn't even REMOTELY look like Calem at all, different hat, different outfit, all of that. He doesn't even have shades. There are plenty of stark differences for the outfits.

I said "Resemble" !
Obviously the Anime does little tuinking with Ash's outfit to make it look different.

Yeah, I know, which is why I can't consider Misty a co-star either. Unless May actually stayed in DP, she can't be a co-star by definition.

What if Ash get replace by a new protagonist ? Are you going to claim that Ash wasn't the protagonist in previous series because he got replaced.
May was Ash's Co-star in AG Series , Thats the truth .

Which basically nearly got it killed and devoured, which was a horrible way to do it, and actually gloated about how he was the greatest despite nearly getting it killed. And anyways, he also used Caterpie after his earlier attempt at just capturing Pidgeotto failed.

He did it because Misty provoked him !
He wanted to proof Caterpies strength and send it before thinking ! He didn't knew that Caterpie will get killed there since he was thoughtless who act without thinking.

I never said she did it out of love for Caterpie, nor is it what I meant to say either, I just said she stood up for him. It doesn't require love for someone to stand up for someone. Compassion, sure, but not love. Don't forget, Harry Potter spared Peter Pettigrew in Prisoner of Azkaban, even though he utterly hated Peter and had every reason to want him dead for his role in his parents' murder, even stopping Sirius Black and Professor Lupin.

Misty didn't stand up for Caterpie , She was simply Criticizing Ash .

The only hint towards Misty and Tracey they actually had in the AG series was the Luvdisc episode, and considering that was just two Luvdisc using attract, not to mention Daisy's overactive imagination, that's not exactly enough to indicate that they're going to be a couple. And besides which, we can't be so sure that Azurill is much of a hint either. For all we know, he just called Misty to pick it up because, hey, it evolves into a Water type and he knows Misty likes Water Pokémon. Being a friend, in other words.

There were other hint as well ! Not to mention that Teacy was in Misty gym in BW seires .

Also, there is love at first sight in Kids Anime as well. We had two rip-offs of Romeo and Juliet (technically three), and there was Brock's infatuation with the Ghost of Maiden's Peak, not to mention the episode where a boy-crazy/wedding-crazy girl goes all damsel in distress for Brock and James in Johto. Heck, we can even label Serena going love at first sight for Ash as well.

Brock get lovestruck by every girl he sees !

She still didn't fall for him, and in fact didn't even give a heartfelt goodbye to Ash when she left for Johto, something even Dawn did at the end of DP, and she actually had a possible shipping partner in the form of that childhood friend of hers.

Dawn didn't had a heartfelt goodbye , Pipup did !
Dawn was shown sad like May when Ash was leaving.

Nickstr is a user on here, as well as a Misty fan, and he actually DID win with a Water-type team, WITHOUT hacks, I should add.

Does anyone in the game calls him Water Pokemon Master ?

It doesn't, really, not in the games, and besides, they replaced May with Dawn, which won't work here.

We are talking about Anime.

True, but making it as serious as Batman: Under the Red Hood isn't a good decision either. He still needs to age, though, since at least then, his journey becomes more plausible.

I said Pokemon to be like Gintama ! Since when Gintama is serious as Batman ?