https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swagger-clause.3508659/
"SwagPlay is a mindless, unskillful, and disrespectful way to battle in a tier that requires skill. It needs to be banned. It is making the most intense and fast paced metagame into a joke, and it is slowly beginning to ruin the competitive aspect of Ubers."
Thoughts on this?
I support this. SwagPlay isn't healthy for the metagame, so why keep it around? There is a precent for this: Moody, OHKO moves, evasion clause, and maybe a few others I don't remember. Pokemon is heavily influenced by luck, but SwagPlay really compromises the skill aspect of the game.
I don't think I've ever heard of anything being banned from Ubers.....Smogon really hates SwagPlay, doesn't it?
I....don't find it terribly necessary to ban SwagPlay from Ubers. You hardly ever see it in Ubers. Something I could see getting banned from Ubers is full Baton Pass teams though. But who knows what'll happen with that.
Pokemon don't get banned from Ubers, but it is still governed by things like OHKO clause. There is a precedent here, and your comment about full BP is another perfect example of something unhealthy that could get banned.
It's rather pathetic that SwagPlay got banned from the regular tiers as it is, but to consider banning it even from Ubers is such a low point for the metagame.
Oh gosh, I guess this argument is over now!
Is it just me or has swag play always been an awful unreliable strategy even in ou....lol... :/ Its never succeed in doing anything relevant against me. Even when not prepared for.
Anecdotal, and you do tend to run teams that naturally do well against it...
Regardless, its viability is only relevant to a certain degree. It's good *enough* and it's not like things like OHKO are overpowered--they just suck to have around and it's good that they're banned.
It's not really rampant in Ubers. I play plenty of Ubers, and I've only seen SwagPlay be used twice.
Usage isn't really relevant in these types of discussions. A lot of people used Electivire in fourth generation OU, after all. (And there's a precedent for this, too! Wobbuffet in fourth generation OU is the most notable example of something that got banned even though it was barely top forty in usage.)
Then I've either been really lucky or Smogon and I have different ideas of what "prevalent" is. I'm not saying that SwagPlay is harmless to the meta. I just haven't seen it be used that much, and therefore see little reason to ban a very uncommon strategy (and one that partly relies on confusion of all things).
I just have a hard time understanding why Smogon so vehemently hates SwagPlay. I've never seen them hate something so much. I find that weather last gen, and entry hazards and full Baton Pass teams this gen are bigger issues. Not like it matters what I think.
But tbh, I don't really care if SwagPlay is banned from Ubers or not unless I suddenly start battling a whole bunch of SwagPlay teams and lose to them a lot. And if SwagPlay is banned, its not like the meta is negatively impacted.
Well your last point is pretty crucial: why keep SwagPlay around? Swagger sucks for everyone. I don't see the downside here except contrarian principled arguments.
Smogon "hates" SwagPlay (as if Smogon is a monolithic entity) for the same reason that it's about to nerf bull BP, that OHKO moves are banned, and the same reason evasion clause used to exist. It's just a terrible thing to have around, and I don't really see the point of opposition except confusion over Smogon's alleged fixation on it, which is definitely a secondary concern, if at all.
Smogon banned Ingrain Smeargle in ADV to hinder full BP chain, a strategy that was never ever seen.
Another example of usage not mattering. Full BP is the worst lol.
