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Team-Building Workshop

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Anti said:
I would pick two of the above Pokemon. All three of them together are compounding weaknesses. The biggest one, as weird as it sounds, is just how slow they are overall. Speed is nice in its own right, as it gives you flexibility dealing with threats you simply do not have if you (and your opponent) know that you have to take a hit first. Sucker Punch has some nice utility but can be used as set-up bait. They also just don't cover that much, so you'll have to cram checks to a lot of threats into the last three slots (Altaria, Zards, Metagross, etc.) which will basically force you to run a balance.

I'll focus on the Gardevoir. Gardevoir is a very nice breaker Pokemon, and its team support is pretty much just "pressure Ferro/Tran and have switch-ins to Metagross and Scizor." Kyurem-B is a nice way to wear down Ferrothorn, and even getting chip damage on non-mega Scizor is nice. I like it better than AV Bisharp here, so I'd make Bisharp the one you replace.

The best Pokemon in terms of offensive synergy for Gardevoir is probably Choice Specs Keldeo. It gives a decent rush of Speed (albeit less, relatively speaking, than in XY) and rips up Ferro/Tran/Scizor. Finding offensive checks for Metagross is a pain, but it can be done. I think. I'm going to go douse myself in kerosene, so give me a minute.

I think a Garde/Keld/Cube core looks much more sound offensively. (I also like that Celebi is easy pickings for the Cube.) You'd need something for Fairy-types and Metagross, so you could run a sand core with it or go with a more conservative backbone, but it sounds like you want something more aggressive. Excadrill would actually fit nicely, providing Rapid Spin support and a failsafe against numerous sweepers while Tyranitar could fill Bisharp's shoes nicely.

If you want aggressive but not sand, Jirachi is a very nice fit. You'll need backup against Metagross still (hnng) but can provide SR, a check to Fairy-types, and status, momentum...really, whatever you want it to. Fire Punch can even lure Scizor, which is a nice bonus.

If you don't like those options I can come up with others. GL.
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Yeah, I think that you're right about Bisharp so I'ma drop that. It's not a bad poke and it has its uses but maybe it's just not for this particular team. Are there other options for the Keldeo slot though? It is very good but I just wanna know what my options are. I'm not sure which to go with on the Jirachi/sand pair thing though. On one hand the Sand Rush Exca+T-tar provides a couple of really useful things (Mega Meta check, Rapid Spin, possibly SR, beats a lot of sweepers), but then there's the fact that it's weather reliant, there's the chip damage on the rest of the team, and Excadrill is pretty frail (not to mention the shared Fighting weakness between Exca, Cube, and T-tar).

But in either scenario, where do I go from here?
 
Alright, so I am working on a team for a Tournament that I am going to be in at the end of this month. And I have a few ideas for what I can do. But I am locked into Grass and Normal types, and one idea that I had for singles was was going with Ambipom and then using Sticky Web to support him and let him out speed the few pokemon that are faster than him. Problem is, I don't know exactly what other pokemon to put on the team. So far, here is all I have. And I know that the Aibipom set is strange, but it works surprisingly well for what it's worth.

Spoiler:
 
Zekrom said:
Yeah, I think that you're right about Bisharp so I'ma drop that. It's not a bad poke and it has its uses but maybe it's just not for this particular team. Are there other options for the Keldeo slot though? It is very good but I just wanna know what my options are. I'm not sure which to go with on the Jirachi/sand pair thing though. On one hand the Sand Rush Exca+T-tar provides a couple of really useful things (Mega Meta check, Rapid Spin, possibly SR, beats a lot of sweepers), but then there's the fact that it's weather reliant, there's the chip damage on the rest of the team, and Excadrill is pretty frail (not to mention the shared Fighting weakness between Exca, Cube, and T-tar).

But in either scenario, where do I go from here?
Click to expand...

sorry for taking soooo long to get to this.

kyurem-b and mega gardevoir form a nice breaker duo that you'll have to cover defensively. you can either speed the team up and make it a bulky offense, or slow it down and make it a balance. i definitely think cube with life orb@roost + 3 atks is your best bet. rotom-w fits nicely so you don't get rolled by mega scizor and you can't voltturn your breakers in. offensive stealth rock heatran is nice, but you might be getting into "slow and overly reliant on resistances" territory. dd gyarados would be cool since it would give you a sweeping threat to clean up messes from cube and garde. i like rotom-w since it lets you switch into mega scizor, but you'll want to be prepared to actually damage it. an offensive garchomp could work.

if i'm being truthful, keldeo just really fits like a glove here. you certainly don't *have* to use it, but it'd be really optimal. i think the other really excellent option would be magnezone. it's deterministic and annoying etc., but it would be a very nice poke for you. either of those two mons would be my choice, and then you can round it out with either fastmons or slowmons (or a combo, your call). i like keld better defensively, though mag's trapping is super nice.

sorry, this was kinda rushed, feel free to reject keld again/mag as well haha. but the options i listed above are usable too.

Charcoal Embers said:
Alright, so I am working on a team for a Tournament that I am going to be in at the end of this month. And I have a few ideas for what I can do. But I am locked into Grass and Normal types, and one idea that I had for singles was was going with Ambipom and then using Sticky Web to support him and let him out speed the few pokemon that are faster than him. Problem is, I don't know exactly what other pokemon to put on the team. So far, here is all I have. And I know that the Aibipom set is strange, but it works surprisingly well for what it's worth.

Spoiler:
Click to expand...

run miracle seed or life orb on the serp, sash isn't great.

that ambipom is too inconsistent in a metagame crawling with ferrothorn, rh garchomp, heatran, gengar, sableye-mega, etc. it also doesn't offer defensive utility, so i think now would be a good time to replace.

i'm not sure i love webs + serp synergy since serp is already so fast and webs don't hurt its two main checks (tornadus-t and talonflame). since serp is a very good mon, i'm going to focus on that. i think sr is your key hazard here with a major focus on removing heatran. i would also toss hp fire over dragon pulse or glare, as leaf storm blows past most mons that dpulse hits, though it has its uses (especially the zards).

manaphy is an awesome partner for serp, and zard x can lure heatran with eq. keldeo fits on any team, but i might refrain from adding it this early. there are lots of options! grounds and waters are particularly good - take your pick.
 
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Anti said:
sorry for taking soooo long to get to this.

kyurem-b and mega gardevoir form a nice breaker duo that you'll have to cover defensively. you can either speed the team up and make it a bulky offense, or slow it down and make it a balance. i definitely think cube with life orb@roost + 3 atks is your best bet. rotom-w fits nicely so you don't get rolled by mega scizor and you can't voltturn your breakers in. offensive stealth rock heatran is nice, but you might be getting into "slow and overly reliant on resistances" territory. dd gyarados would be cool since it would give you a sweeping threat to clean up messes from cube and garde. i like rotom-w since it lets you switch into mega scizor, but you'll want to be prepared to actually damage it. an offensive garchomp could work.

if i'm being truthful, keldeo just really fits like a glove here. you certainly don't *have* to use it, but it'd be really optimal. i think the other really excellent option would be magnezone. it's deterministic and annoying etc., but it would be a very nice poke for you. either of those two mons would be my choice, and then you can round it out with either fastmons or slowmons (or a combo, your call). i like keld better defensively, though mag's trapping is super nice.

sorry, this was kinda rushed, feel free to reject keld again/mag as well haha. but the options i listed above are usable too.



run miracle seed or life orb on the serp, sash isn't great.

that ambipom is too inconsistent in a metagame crawling with ferrothorn, rh garchomp, heatran, gengar, sableye-mega, etc. it also doesn't offer defensive utility, so i think now would be a good time to replace.

i'm not sure i love webs + serp synergy since serp is already so fast and webs don't hurt its two main checks (tornadus-t and talonflame). since serp is a very good mon, i'm going to focus on that. i think sr is your key hazard here with a major focus on removing heatran. i would also toss hp fire over dragon pulse or glare, as leaf storm blows past most mons that dpulse hits, though it has its uses (especially the zards).

manaphy is an awesome partner for serp, and zard x can lure heatran with eq. keldeo fits on any team, but i might refrain from adding it this early. there are lots of options! grounds and waters are particularly good - take your pick.
Click to expand...

Two things I have to say. 1, I can't agree with Life Orb or Miracle Seed on Serperior. The results I have had have shown me that Focus Sash works great. 2, I can't use Manaphy or Ground and Waters because I have to use either Grass Types or Normal Types with this team. And off the top of my head, I can't think of many Ground types that are also Normal or Grass (besides Tortera)
 
oh sorry, oversight. what is the ruleset for the tournament you're in?
 
Charcoal Embers said:
6v6, can be doubles or singles (depending on preference), I can only use 2 types, and I can change my team between battles. Smogon rules.

I think that is everything.
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does your opponent have the same restriction, and if so, do you know what types your opp is using? can you change yours or are you stuck?
 
Anti said:
does your opponent have the same restriction, and if so, do you know what types your opp is using? can you change yours or are you stuck?
Click to expand...

Yes. Everyone in the tournament has the same restrictions. Everyone has 2 types they can use and only those types. And every type can only be used by two people. So if one person has Ghost and Dark as their types, they can only use pokemon who has at least one type that is Ghost or Dark. And if someone else was using Ghost and Ice, they have the same restriction. But since Ghost was chosen by two people no one else can use Ghost.
 
Charcoal Embers said:
Yes. Everyone in the tournament has the same restrictions. Everyone has 2 types they can use and only those types. And every type can only be used by two people. So if one person has Ghost and Dark as their types, they can only use pokemon who has at least one type that is Ghost or Dark. And if someone else was using Ghost and Ice, they have the same restriction. But since Ghost was chosen by two people no one else can use Ghost.
Click to expand...

what are your opp's types?
 
Anti said:
sorry for taking soooo long to get to this.

kyurem-b and mega gardevoir form a nice breaker duo that you'll have to cover defensively. you can either speed the team up and make it a bulky offense, or slow it down and make it a balance. i definitely think cube with life orb@roost + 3 atks is your best bet. rotom-w fits nicely so you don't get rolled by mega scizor and you can't voltturn your breakers in. offensive stealth rock heatran is nice, but you might be getting into "slow and overly reliant on resistances" territory. dd gyarados would be cool since it would give you a sweeping threat to clean up messes from cube and garde. i like rotom-w since it lets you switch into mega scizor, but you'll want to be prepared to actually damage it. an offensive garchomp could work.

if i'm being truthful, keldeo just really fits like a glove here. you certainly don't *have* to use it, but it'd be really optimal. i think the other really excellent option would be magnezone. it's deterministic and annoying etc., but it would be a very nice poke for you. either of those two mons would be my choice, and then you can round it out with either fastmons or slowmons (or a combo, your call). i like keld better defensively, though mag's trapping is super nice.

sorry, this was kinda rushed, feel free to reject keld again/mag as well haha. but the options i listed above are usable too.
Click to expand...
Nah I understand the love for Keld {XD} Just to clarify though, are you suggesting DD Gyarados/Rotom-Wash in place of Keldeo or alongside Keldeo? Garchomp sounds good though, just dunno if I wanna do offensive SR or SD.....


Oh, and the tournament that Charcoal Embers is talking about is this, in case that helps.
 
you should change your team depending on the match-up then. lots of good mons to choose from too like m lop, serp, m venu, amoonguss, blissey/chansey (bliss would be better in certain matchups), chesnaught, etc.

edit: definitely don't run keld and gyara together, youre going to get creamed by fast voltturns if you do.

sd chomp can offensive sr too if youre into that X)
 
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Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Emboar @ Life Orb
Trait: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

- Flare Blitz
- Sucker Punch
- Wild Charge
- Superpower

I would really like to bulid around this core (yeah yeah using Emboar once again). chomp takes out a lot of early-game threats and provides SR support while Emboar breaks down a lot of walls and is almost impossible to switch into. I'll probably need to cover Mega Alt, so I guess AV Meta, Mega Gardy or CB Scizor would make a good partner.
 
I was planning to build a wincon scoli team with swords dance poison jab mega horn and substitute, I was wondering if someone can help me in figuring out how the team would look like? I used a version in this week's Pcl match but that was purely non-serious. But I noticed it could actually work.
Any suggestions?


Also @aps I found this nice emboar ho you could look at for some inspiration, ironically tho it can be better without emboar lol! I will pm it to u if u want
 
Last edited:
static said:
I was planning to build a wincon scoli team with swords dance poison jab mega horn and substitute, I was wondering if someone can help me in figuring out how the team would look like? I used a version in this week's Pcl match but that was purely non-serious. But I noticed it could actually work.
Any suggestions?


Also @aps I found this nice emboar ho you could look at for some inspiration, ironically tho it can be better without emboar lol! I will pm it to u if u want
Click to expand...

If you're using Scoli i suggest either Mag or Dug to trap steels or both lol. Probs want hazard control and some way to stop shit like Talon/Lando smiting you. Tar@Pursuit would remove Talon. Stuff like Lando and Gliscor are another problem though. Aforementioned Aqua Tail or Ice Punch CB Tar might be nice to "lure" those in or weaken then.
 
So with this check list. Do you need some sort of counter for EVERY one of these scenarios?


Also are there ways to build a team around a Mega Garchomp or even regular one?
 
AdrianD said:
So with this check list. Do you need some sort of counter for EVERY one of these scenarios?
Click to expand...

You definitely don't want to straight-up auto-lose to something. I would build your team with your own strategy being the focus (as opposed to focusing on trying to stop others), but you'll want a defensive backbone of some sort. It depends on what type of team you're building.

AdrianD said:
Also are there ways to build a team around a Mega Garchomp or even regular one?
Click to expand...

Both are perfectly fine. Regular Garchomp tends to be more of a supporting Pokemon. The chic set right now is the defensive Stealth Rock set with Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet to pile stack chip damage, but offensive Stealth Rock Garchomp is still perfectly viable. It isn't used much beyond that though, though SD and Scarf sets theoretically exist.

MegaChomp is a very strong breaker and can definitely be the foundation of a successful team. It very much appreciates Hippowdon or Tyranitar so it can get the power boost from Sand Force, though I think the team support it really needs is pivoting or some other way to regain momentum from faster revenge killers that will force it out (especially the ubiquitous Lati twins) since its goal is to maximize damage output rather than to have the staying power of a sweeper. You'll probably want some more reliable win conditions of your own to maximize the impact of Garchomp's breaking.
 
Anti said:
You definitely don't want to straight-up auto-lose to something. I would build your team with your own strategy being the focus (as opposed to focusing on trying to stop others), but you'll want a defensive backbone of some sort. It depends on what type of team you're building.
Click to expand...

Thing is Ive had the strategy of strike first and hard doesnt seem to work. Especially since Everyone likes to bulk up. I would try to do some bulking and then I dont have enough punch in my hits. I couldnt figure this out which is why I left a year ago
 
AdrianD said:
Thing is Ive had the strategy of strike first and hard doesnt seem to work. Especially since Everyone likes to bulk up. I would try to do some bulking and then I dont have enough punch in my hits. I couldnt figure this out which is why I left a year ago
Click to expand...

breaking down well-played defensive teams is one of the higher learning curve parts of the game and could be in-battle execution as much as team structure. (i'd have to see replays to say with any certainty.) mega garchomp is very solid but can be a little difficult to use, so if you want more straightforward breakers to make breaking down defensive cores more intuitive for you, i might try using regular garchomp as a stealth rock setter (assuming you really want to use garchomp--there are lots of pokes that can fill that role) and pairing with something like manaphy, kyurem-black, mega gardevoir, gengar, or mega charizard y. regular garchomp is actually pretty difficult to switch into, which helps as well.
 
Anti said:
breaking down well-played defensive teams is one of the higher learning curve parts of the game and could be in-battle execution as much as team structure. (i'd have to see replays to say with any certainty.) mega garchomp is very solid but can be a little difficult to use, so if you want more straightforward breakers to make breaking down defensive cores more intuitive for you, i might try using regular garchomp as a stealth rock setter (assuming you really want to use garchomp--there are lots of pokes that can fill that role) and pairing with something like manaphy, kyurem-black, mega gardevoir, gengar, or mega charizard y. regular garchomp is actually pretty difficult to switch into, which helps as well.
Click to expand...

I dont generally play on Smogon. I play in the battle spots in game
 
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