The Anime Chat Café

Famon said:
That the main problem with Current Ash , He act way too politely ! Original Ash wouldn't hesitant to play prank on his friend & tease them.
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Huh. For what may be the first time since I've been posting here, I actually agree with Famon on something - well, to an extent, anyway. I don't think he needs to revert back to his OS-era characterization (for the most part, that would be BW), the writers just need to find a better balance with him.

XY has, for the most part (and especially in the last dozen or so episodes), presented Satoshi as a strong trainer who can sometimes even be pretty insightful, and that's great - something sorely missing from the last series. But I don't like how that seems to have come at the cost of a defined personality, entertaining relationships to the rest of his friends, or any consistent personal flaws or challenges. Satoshi should ideally be a balance of both. Where's Satoshi's drive to do better? Where's the passion for his goal that sometimes overrides his common sense? Where's his competitiveness with rivals? Where's his deep love for Pokémon? These used to be what defined Satoshi's characterization - and not just in the OS, by the way - but they're sorely missing in XY.

I mean, they're obviously still meant to be there. Characters will often remark on how fired up Satoshi is, or how hard he works to become stronger, or how much he loves Pokémon. But it's rare that any of this is shown. And while it's been great to see Satoshi kicking some ass again after Best Wishes, it'd be even better if he could have all that back, too. Satoshi rarely has a reaction to losing anymore, he doesn't get a lot of chances to spend one-on-one time to bond with his Pokémon, there's little any indication he's seriously concerned about beating rivals like Tierno, and despite still retaining some essence of childishness, he's somehow too level-headed most of the time to get himself into trouble when he lets his impulsiveness get the best of him.

His relationship with the other characters, namely Serena and Eureka, suffers from this. Satoshi had a different way interacting with Kasumi, Takeshi, Haruka, Masato, Hikari, Iris, and Dent. Satoshi plays off Citron well enough, but he'll treat Serena and Eureka about the same as he would any COTD, which makes his relationships to both rather one-note. The writers could emphasize the differences in Satoshi and Serena's interests more. They don't need to fight or anything, but imagine the potential in scenarios like Satoshi helping her own with her showcases or having to go shopping with her or something... y'know, stuff that'd take Satoshi (who has no interest in these things) out of his comfort zone. And then you have potential scenarios of Satoshi and Eureka getting overexcited about a Pokémon or something, getting in trouble, and the potential drama/comedy that results from the both of them having to slow down and think their way out of a situation.

And then there's his Pokémon. If Satoshi is only defined by one thing, it's his love for Pokémon. In AG and DP, Satoshi had formed a believable, genuine bond with all of his Pokémon, got chances to teach them something, and even learned a little bit about them after their captures. Even the more ones that were eventually shafted, like Cotoise and Dodaitose, got something to demonstrate the bond he had with them. But in XY, the best relationship Satoshi has ever had with one of his Pokémon this series was Numelgon, which was in his party for all of fifteen episodes and then left. Gekogashira, Hinoyakoma, and Luchabull have had far more opportunities, and Satoshi's bond with them still doesn't feel anywhere near as good.

... ugh, this turned into a rant. I don't hate Satoshi or anything. Even at his worst in XY, he's still nowhere near as bad as BW, just inoffensively boring. And he's still has his good moments. I just wish the writers would do more with him.
 
I wonder about The Alternate Ash from Hoopa shot !
He's definitely another Ash from another universe who's traveling alone and often has to deal with Hoopa's mischief.

Also In term of Romance , I prefer if the Anime created a female version of Paul for Ash.
A cute but quite girl who doesn't talk to others take an interest in Ash due to his unique connection to pokemon.
She should show ''semi-canonize'' feeling for Ash ! That way , People will be more interest in the series to know if she really has a crush on Ash or not

I also wish to see Ash's old habit of saying Wrong thing at wrong time and getting smack for it.
Remember how Misty smacked Ash when he said that Misty is like a ''Brother'' to him ! And then Brock & Pikachu pray for Ash to get a better sense at saying right thing at right time.

Lizardo said:
Huh. For what may be the first time since I've been posting here, I actually agree with Famon on something - well, to an extent, anyway. I don't think he needs to revert back to his OS-era characterization (for the most part, that would be BW), the writers just need to find a better balance with him.
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I like to clear the confusion about BW Ash being like Original Ash.
Because BW Ash is nothing like Original Ash ! I know Because I watch & rewatched the original series over & over.
Original Ash was arrogant , Egoistic , Playful & feisty ! He also shown interest in girls and actually understood when TR & others teased him about him & Misty
He personality was similar to Gold (PokeSpe), Tyson (Beyblade) or Ben Tennyson (Ben 10)
Compare to that , BW Ash was nothing more then a stupider & Weaker version of DP Ash!
If we take Competency and Battling skill out of equation then there is no difference between BW Ash & DP Ash.
 
I still think writters sould spice up the anime by adding more action and i really like the new bettle seanes thay are awesome i wish thay have dont that from the starting xD
 
Ash said:
XY is actually more action packed than BW. To the point that there are people who hate Ash's current portrayal because it's too shounen protag haha.
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Oh please , Ash is nothing like a Shounen Protagonist!
Ash is like a Harem Protagonist without a harem!
Also , XY series doesn't have nearly as such as action as PokeSpe manga.
 
Ash said:
> no harem
> looks at every female companions he's had

lol ok. but no really that's sad that you think a shounen protag needs to have a harem to be one. really, really, sad.
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You didn't fully read my post
Because I said Ash is Harem Protagonist "Without" A Harem.
He has all the basic trait of an harem protagonist from VN .
An Average , Ordinary , Dense and Extremely nice Protagonist who remain Average and score all girls with his infinite Kindness.
Difference is , Ash Score Pokemon in place of girls .
Furthermore , A Shounen Protagonist keep on breaking his limit and reach a higher level! However , Ash remain within his limit and never break it.
An Ideal Shounen Protagonist would have won a League , Catch Legendary Pokemon and defeat the main Villain in an Epic battle.
All those thing are impossible for Ash.
He's not allow to win any Long-term Tournament without a partner , He not allow to keep Goodra more then 5 episode and he hardly even beaten any major villain except Team Rocket Trio.
That not the Trait of a Shounen Protagonist.
 
May be , Trevenant is a great pokemon after all--

Spoiler:
 
I finally got the chance to pick up where I left off at the 1st season of Diamond & Pearl series thanks to Hulu. Watching it and the movies/shorts in order just as I've done with the last 3 generation's anime(s). Enjoying it quite a bit so far, after seeing the mini arc of Ash's Chimchar I think I actually like that starter now xD
 
Honestly , I wish the Next movie to be based on Delta episode where Ash get invited by May to watch Mossdeep city Meteor Shower.
Just like Youkai Watch movie !
The Movie start with May running off to the deck to greet Ash while he himself got into a Double Battle with Drew (Who met him by chance) where Ash wins.
The crisis begun when Wally is attacked by a mysterious girl who steal his Keystone and tries to steal May's until Ash intervene with Ash-Greninja.
The Movie should also show ORAS exclusive characters like Lisia , Chazz and Aarune along with Drew .
I guess ,Contestshipping still be Canon since the entire AG Series were handle like a Shoujo where May is the Protagonist.
And A Shoujo heroin never ends up with someone average-looking like Ash , She always end up with someone hot & Dazzling as Drew.
I guess The movie should focus on Ash & Zinnia.
 
Famon said:
Isn't that the same thing!
You said Pokemon is like Gintama & The Simpsons Even though those show follow different format then Pokemon and even geared to different audience.
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No. No, they're not at all the same thing. "Level" and "Target Audience"...or even format are very, very different things Famon. Also, why do you keep grouping Gintama and The Simpsons together. I just used them both as examples one time because they're both sitcoms, I don't even watch The Simpsons.

Famon said:
Oh Then I guess Ash has 2 goals !
One is to be Pokemon Master & Another is to be Champion Master Since he did said his goal is to be Champion Master in DP 191.
Or Pokemon Master is just an alternate name for Champion Master.
Just like Contest-Idol , Top Coordinator , Contest Master all means the same thing.
Watch DP series before trying to prove me wrong.
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I'm not going to do that. It's been made clear many times that, even today, what a "Pokemon Master" is is vague. At the beginning, it was a McGuffin Title for Ash to go on his quest, and really, it still is. Regardless of what his goal is, the obstacle, boss, and goal for Ash as it stands is the Pokemon League Tournament. Plain and simple. If he can't beat that, he can't focus on the Championship and neither can the show. As it stands, it's a non-obstacle and a long-term goal, but he can't reach one without the other.

And as far as needing to watch DP to prove you wrong, two words: Serebii, Bulbagarden. C'mon, fam. Just because I don't follow it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

Famon said:
These entire Series is about him becoming Pokemon Master.
Winning the League is just his 1st step to reach his goal So it is an Obstacle in Ash's Way to overcome.
Ash winning the Kalo League not a waste of 20 year of development ! Its a waste of 20 year of development when Ash still can not win a Simple league conference even after all the development he gone though in Original, AG & DP series.
But again I'm talking about a Guy who never bother to Watch DP series to know what kind of Development Ash being though.
Currently , Its the right time for Ash to win a League Specially if "Essentia" get involve in Kalo League.
After all , What would the best place for Xerosic to test Essentia suit except for the League !
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C'mon, Famon, can you at least try to make this sound related to Z? I'm gonna jump this over to the DCC so we don't cause any unneeded disturbance.

And...you know what, let me relate this all back to something you know well, Detective Conan. What if, at the end of some arc, Conan just transformed back into Shinichi. There was no build-up, and though Conan's had character moments throughout the series, this arc wasn't really about him in any way. In fact, most people thought it was just some random case arc that Ran wasn't even in. Well, if that were to happen, people would be shocked because it finally happened after so long and randomly at that, but they would also be disappointed. Disappointed because the show's hook just resolved itself anti-climatically out of nowhere without anything leading up to it.

Please, Famon, do not turn this into a discussion about DC. That was just an example.

That's basically what it'd be like if Ash won the League right now. "Satisfaction" would be the last thing people would feel. Confusion, maybe. Disappointment? Probably. Indifference? Most definitely. Because the result defies expectation in a way that gets little out of the viewer. No suspense. No hype. No desire for Ash to win. At this point, it's just another League, and him losing keeps him that much farther away from becoming a Pokemon Master, which is good for the company financially, the writers time-wise, and the story doesn't have to progress, it'll just start all over again. And they can just start Ash all over again.

Though I do admit, having the last season of Ash's journey be called "Z" would be very fitting. I'd be totally fine with it, as unlikely as it is.
 
machomuu said:
No. No, they're not at all the same thing. "Level" and "Target Audience"...or even format are very, very different things Famon. Also, why do you keep grouping Gintama and The Simpsons together. I just used them both as examples one time because they're both sitcoms, I don't even watch The Simpsons.
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So , You compare show without even watching them !
At least , I took my time to watch Anime before claiming some Random theory.
Thats Why I claim Pokemon to be like Avatar : Legend of Aang/Korra !
Because both show follow the format of main character traveling with his friend to achieve a Goal.

C'mon, Famon, can you at least try to make this sound related to Z? I'm gonna jump this over to the DCC so we don't cause any unneeded disturbance.

And...you know what, let me relate this all back to something you know well, Detective Conan. What if, at the end of some arc, Conan just transformed back into Shinichi. There was no build-up, and though Conan's had character moments throughout the series, this arc wasn't really about him in any way. In fact, most people thought it was just some random case arc that Ran wasn't even in. Well, if that were to happen, people would be shocked because it finally happened after so long and randomly at that, but they would also be disappointed. Disappointed because the show's hook just resolved itself anti-climatically out of nowhere without anything leading up to it.

Please, Famon, do not turn this into a discussion about DC. That was just an example.

That's basically what it'd be like if Ash won the League right now. "Satisfaction" would be the last thing people would feel. Confusion, maybe. Disappointment? Probably. Indifference? Most definitely. Because the result defies expectation in a way that gets little out of the viewer. No suspense. No hype. No desire for Ash to win. At this point, it's just another League, and him losing keeps him that much farther away from becoming a Pokemon Master, which is good for the company financially, the writers time-wise, and the story doesn't have to progress, it'll just start all over again. And they can just start Ash all over again.

Though I do admit, having the last season of Ash's journey be called "Z" would be very fitting. I'd be totally fine with it, as unlikely as it is.
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Kalo League is related to Z !
Unless , You believe Kalo League will be the part of new series call "Pokemon XY : Kalo league Champion" !
Nevertheless , Kalo League is part of "Z" ether it place before Team Flare ark or After it !
Also , If Shinichi return back to normal then it would mean the Series reach its end and soon we will find out the Boss of Black Organization.
Unless , You want Aoyama Gosho to keep stretching the series until he drop dead and the entire series remain unfinished !
Since Aoyama Gosho heath being a issue and he taking a lot of hitus ! It much better if he finish series before his health get worst .

Also , Would you care to create a poll to see how many people will be dissatisfy with Ash winning the Kalo League ?
According you theory , Everyone want Pokemon to spend 3 or 8 more year repeating the same story because currently Kalo League is not right League for Ash to win !!!
What I learn from Pokemon DP Manga is that even 1 or 2 chapter is enough to build a league if the series introduce someone like Koya.
Team Flare ark might end before Ash's 8th Gym-battle So you think it would be satisfactory if Ash spend rest of series playing Kiddy game with Team Rocket and go on another "Da Journey" or "Battle Frontier".
Tell me , How many will be dissatisfy if Ash wins the Kalo League and go to Champion League as a Post-league saga.

I'm not going to do that. It's been made clear many times that, even today, what a "Pokemon Master" is is vague. At the beginning, it was a McGuffin Title for Ash to go on his quest, and really, it still is. Regardless of what his goal is, the obstacle, boss, and goal for Ash as it stands is the Pokemon League Tournament. Plain and simple. If he can't beat that, he can't focus on the Championship and neither can the show. As it stands, it's a non-obstacle and a long-term goal, but he can't reach one without the other.
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Well , Aren't I'm saying Ash to win the Kalo League so he can enter Kalo Champion League to face Kalo E4 & Champion?
Also , Are you really gonna ignore What Ash said from his mouth ?
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/DP191
Ash himself said his goal is to win the Pokemon League so he can enter Champion League.
Team Flare ark is not an Obstacle , Its just another random event he face in his Journey .
His real obstacle is Kalo League where he has to face at least 200 trainer who are also aiming to win it.
Why Ash came Kalo to do ? Play Kiddy Games with Team Rocket !

And as far as needing to watch DP to prove you wrong, two words: Serebii, Bulbagarden. C'mon, fam. Just because I don't follow it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Yet , You have no idea Champion League exists !
 
If anything though, I'd like to see a spin-off following Paul and his journey. Maybe even see him conflict with Gary. Because for all intents and purposes, Paul IS us: the player. Everything he does, says and reacts to is how most competitive players or general players would react to. Yes, he is a jerk. Yes he can be cold, vicious, spiteful, disrespectful. And mostly he's a reflection of Ash if Ash was for adult audiences. That's not to say edginess equals ratings. But it does grab more attention. Especially if the MC thinks and strategies before every encounter. And to see the training his pokemon had to go through to get that strong would be something. He doesn't fall for the same gags of Team Rocket or obligatory police officer (I dunno if I should include Officer Jenny) and does have believable goals. It would be a weird show to watch from his POV but I think I'd stick with it if only to see that roster grow and his battles utilized to their full potential.
 
I miss some of the old characters. The chemistry with the XY companions has been pretty bland. I wonder why it's been so long and we haven't seen Iris.
 
Anyone else who watches the dub can't wait for this break to be over? I was looking forward to XY&Z and Zygarde but now I have to deal with no new episodes for a few more weeks or so :P
 
Anyone else notice that in the Pokemon Advance series when Ash has Corpish send him flying in to the air to save the Nuzleaf and Pikachu that Meowth says and I quote "By wringing a Ferroseed up his pants" FERROSEED IS A GEN 5 POKEMON!!!! And Meowth mentioned it in Hoenn!
 
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