Sports The Football Discussion Thread!

[Frozocrone]

I don't see how Spurs 'bottled it' as some are calling it.

They brought the 11 point gap that Chelsea had down to four (at writing, could be seven by Monday). They could have won all their games like 10-0 and still could have come second - Chelsea still have the favourable match ups from here to the end. Other top six teams actually let Chelsea get even more points over them.

They bottled the chance to close the gap to one point

So? That one point still means Chelsea are in front. The league is Chelsea's to lose, not Tottenham's to win. Tottenham just fell short of winning and had Kane not been injured at key moments, or Chelsea been in Europe, or any other variables at work, they could have pushed the league even closer.

If anything, Tottenham should be proud this season for outperforming a number of teams that have bigger wages and spent more in the transfer market. Man Utd and Liverpool are the possible exceptions to this;Man Utd since they still have a chance to win in Europe which really should be the norm when you spend over £100m and Liverpool because I don't recall them spending lots this season.

Next season will be interesting if Pochettino manages to keep a hold of his key players and bring some depth to the squad.
BTW London is Blue right now regardless of whether one is Arsenal or Spurs, just because Spurs are finishing above Arsenal doesn't mean London is magically white, Chelsea still have the recent Premier League's and Champion's League trophies.

 

[Amore]

10-game winning streaks in the Premiership are rare as hell, but losing to this season's West Ham is still pretty tragic. If they'd been beaten by anyone from Everton up (excluding this awful team wearing Arsenal strips the past month) it would be far less of a talking point. So it comes off a quite Spursy.

Then again they didn't exactly "bottle it" as much as they just sucked awfully during their Wembley autumn. I would partially exclude us from comparison - as a supporter of a club who had the same manager for 8 years before I was born right up until I was closer to 19 years old than 18, I know the value of continuity, which only Arsenal have had. Also we took the Europa League seriously from the outset which I can't remember any English team doing since Newcastle ended up in the semis of the Uefa Cup under Sir Bobby only to lose out to a Drogba-inspired Marseille. Yeah Liverpool didn't spend that much - that's a combination of lack of trying and the knowledge that their lack of European football, lack of being a London club and Klopp's love for actually coaching people meant large outlay was not an option to pursue.

I'd only truly consider Spurs to have "bottled it" if they don't win anything next year (presuming Harry Kane or Dele Alli don't suddenly develop an untreatable compulsion to be booed by the worst fans on the planet in the Bernabeu). Still will make me worry about their odds of holding the team together. Also that 11-point gap closing has to give equal credibility to the fact that Palace played out of their skins, Marcus Rashford is so much centre forward that a 3-man defence can't handle him, and despite the ample credit Conte has received (and deserved) for turning Chelsea around he hasn't been able to summon much of a performance out of anyone other than the starting 11, Cesc Fabregas and Willian (one of the best central midfielders in the world and a man who single-handedly stopped Chelsea dropping into the relegation zone last season, respectively).

 

[Eruption]

Yeah I wouldn't describe it as a 'bottle job' personally as I never thought they would catch Chelsea anyway. They are in a great position to challenge next season though.

If we lose to Chelsea on Monday then we are finally confirmed to be relegated. In a way it will be nice to have no false hope anymore.

Today is all about the Championship's relegation battle though, I hope Blackburn stay up.

 

[Amore]

Ah gutted they went down! Only because i would have loved Forest to go down after Nigel Clough turned them down. They're a shit-show. So are Blackburn, but I somehow feel what's been done to Forest is worse.

Can't believe that we lost to Arsenal. I expected a 0-0, that "strong" lineup wasn't really strong as it contained quite a few players returning from injuries and Axel Tuanzebe making his full debut out of position. Then again it really does appear to be the rules that Arsenal finish top four no matter what. After all, how can it possibly be that they have played 1 fewer game than us despite our winning the C1C and being in the semi-finals of the Europa League? Clearly the fixture computers are Arsenal fans. I have moaned before about how the Premiership people really seem to hate teams who play in Europe, but it almost seems like Arsenal have been rewarded for being absolute garbage when it matters by being given extra time to get themselves together and make a late run to the top four

 

[Sword Master]

Arsenal 2-0 Man Utd
and thus the dullest, most pointless, luckiest, inconsequential unbeaten run in football was ended...finally

Spoiler:

Although with a video ref it would've ended a lot sooner

 

[Frozocrone]

It's not like Arsenal fixtures were kind with the FA cup and stuff.

Seems like Mourinho was prioritising Europa and rightly so tbf.

Arsenal fans can be glad I guess but this has been a disastrous season for them in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Eruption]

It's all part of Mourinho's master plan to keep Wenger in charge of Arsenal. In all seriouness, if United don't win the Europa League then this has been a terrible season for José. In a strange way, I think Moyes would have made more progress than this by now if he was still in charge.

Gutted for Blackburn, it also means we can't get Assombalonga on a cheap deal from Forest. :(

 

[Amore]

Arsenal 2-0 Man Utd
and thus the dullest, most pointless, luckiest, inconsequential unbeaten run in football was ended...finally

I completely forgot we were unbeaten. I guess its because results like drawing against Swansea felt like losses.

It's all part of Mourinho's master plan to keep Wenger in charge of Arsenal. In all seriouness, if United don't win the Europa League then this has been a terrible season for José. In a strange way, I think Moyes would have made more progress than this by now if he was still in charge.

Gutted for Blackburn, it also means we can't get Assombalonga on a cheap deal from Forest. :(

Guys in The Guardian got it right pointing out that Mourinho's going soft on Wenger just like Fergie did when he realised that Arsenal were in no way a threat. Right now the biggest threat to United will be, as it has been pretty much since the end of 2012-13, our players playing as less than the sum of their parts and not blowing away the little guys like we're supposed to.

 

[Eruption]

50% win ratio during an unbeaten run is remarkably bad, imagine if the run was the entire season United still wouldn't have won the league.

The Mirror are already trying to write Mourinho off with a huge discussion over whether he is in decline (Link). I honestly think the bigger problem for me, especially coming off of Van Gaal's spell, would be the style of football Mourinho plays. United should play attacking football rather than contained, pragmatic stuff and frankly if such a boring defensive style can't even deliver a top four finish then it is not right for the club.

 

[Lipstick Vogue]

Well I've already forgotten our season.

Hope webber's appointment and the restructuring changes the momentum of the club. Ruddy's departure would suggest that we are going all out with the rebuild this summer. Can't wait.

 

[Eruption]

Welcome back from your ban.

Surely Ruddy hasn't been terrible though? Isn't that just rebuilding for the sake of it?

We're finally confirmed down. Woo seven more years in the Championship, can't wait.

 

[Lipstick Vogue]

Thanks. Undeserved ban btw.

Easily our best keeper despite the fact he's not been at his best since his injury a few years back. In Ruddy's case I think it was more about getting a high earner off the books than a bad player/attitude though. I imagine we'll sell Declan Rudd or Michael McGovern and sign a new number 1.

In terms of defenders it will certainly be a dramatic rebuild. As it stands we only actually have 3 first team defenders, and one of them (Timm Klose) will inevitably be leaving. It's something we've needed for a good couple of years.

It's interesting how many big decisions he's already made despite not having a head coach in yet. From an interview yesterday it seems his candidates are either active in playoffs games or still in season on continental Europe (Probably Germany).

Based on what I saw of Boro in the previous couple of seasons I'm surprised you didn't put up more of a fight. Premier League is really hard.

 

[Amore]

Do Norwich still have the Murphy brothers? They've always been good on Football Manager but never known how they've done in real life.

Hindsight being 20/20 is never more true than with Middlesborough being relegated having scored less goals than Sunderland - they didn't actually score that many in the Championship either. I was surprised Karanka was still in the job by summer given all the dramas that season but less so that he was given so long - its just weirdly promising seeing a promoted team concede so few, even if that did leave Alvaro Negredo with even poorer service than had he stayed at Valencia, as you can have a feeling that if the goals come you're set for the future. After the nightmare Fabio had in the last game it seems like he might have somehow been overindulgent on Adama Traore as well.

I've heard rumours Middlesborough are in for Alan Pardew or Ryan Giggs - the former would probably take you up, his tactics seem perfect for such a chaotic division. Would be interesting to see how Ryan Giggs would handle a newly-relegated team. Can't exactly see buyers lining up for many of your players bar Valdes, Ben Gibson and perhaps Traore (seems like a Stoke signing) so the group would be all there, I'd assume he'd put far more trust in Stewart Downing what with him having also gone from winger to CAM, but he's also got no managerial experience bar 4 games for us when the season was pretty much gone.

 

[Eruption]

Thanks. Undeserved ban btw.

Easily our best keeper despite the fact he's not been at his best since his injury a few years back. In Ruddy's case I think it was more about getting a high earner off the books than a bad player/attitude though. I imagine we'll sell Declan Rudd or Michael McGovern and sign a new number 1.

In terms of defenders it will certainly be a dramatic rebuild. As it stands we only actually have 3 first team defenders, and one of them (Timm Klose) will inevitably be leaving. It's something we've needed for a good couple of years.

It's interesting how many big decisions he's already made despite not having a head coach in yet. From an interview yesterday it seems his candidates are either active in playoffs games or still in season on continental Europe (Probably Germany).

Based on what I saw of Boro in the previous couple of seasons I'm surprised you didn't put up more of a fight. Premier League is really hard.

That kind of comment might see you banned again soon. :P

I suppose I didn't think about Ruddy's wage, do you think a Premier League team will take him? I think we're in a similar position on both keepers and centre backs, we're losing Valdes & Guzan @ GK and Gibson & Chambers @ CB, plus Bernardo is fucking terrible so I hope he isn't a centre back option next year. That said, we might not need a keeper if we make Connor Ripley, who is coming off a great season in League One, our new #1 and let Dimi be back-up.

Karanka tried to apply his boring win 1-0 tactics to a better league and it just never worked. After that, the lack of creativity killed us because we never had a plan B. We could have scraped a really undeserved survival with the right managerial replacement, but no we ended up with Agnew.

Do Norwich still have the Murphy brothers? They've always been good on Football Manager but never known how they've done in real life.

Hindsight being 20/20 is never more true than with Middlesborough being relegated having scored less goals than Sunderland - they didn't actually score that many in the Championship either. I was surprised Karanka was still in the job by summer given all the dramas that season but less so that he was given so long - its just weirdly promising seeing a promoted team concede so few, even if that did leave Alvaro Negredo with even poorer service than had he stayed at Valencia, as you can have a feeling that if the goals come you're set for the future. After the nightmare Fabio had in the last game it seems like he might have somehow been overindulgent on Adama Traore as well.

I've heard rumours Middlesborough are in for Alan Pardew or Ryan Giggs - the former would probably take you up, his tactics seem perfect for such a chaotic division. Would be interesting to see how Ryan Giggs would handle a newly-relegated team. Can't exactly see buyers lining up for many of your players bar Valdes, Ben Gibson and perhaps Traore (seems like a Stoke signing) so the group would be all there, I'd assume he'd put far more trust in Stewart Downing what with him having also gone from winger to CAM, but he's also got no managerial experience bar 4 games for us when the season was pretty much gone.

I was never a big fan of Karanka, the football was absolutely terrible, but I accepted it whilst it got results. Even if he kept us up, I would have wanted him booted if he didn't change his ways for the second season in the Premier League, but I genuinely think he only knows one way to coach. He really is just a discount Mourinho, a man who as we have discussed isn't looking too perfect himself these days.

I don't know why we recruited so heavily from Aston Villa, but for all the fun people will have at Gestede's expense (3 relegations in a row, league record for games lost in a row), he was probably the most useful of the three. Guzan has been dreadful when called upon and Adama is just not suited for a relegation battle at this time. He is more talented than Adomah, who went in the opposite direction, but Adomah would have been more useful over the course of the season I think. But really I don't think Adama was ever supposed to be a first choice, we just screwed up in the market so much that we had to use him or use a square peg in a round hole.

You're spot on with Gibson, Valdes and Adama leaving. I think De Roon will be picked up by one of the mid-table side as well, which is a shame as he had become my favourite player at the club. Clayton would be a smart acquisition for any of the newly promoted sides as a squad player, but I think he will slip under the radar and we'll keep him. Ramirez will definitely leave, but hopefully there is no Premier League interest in him and he ends up back in the Uruguayan pub league. Everyone else I wouldn't touch with a 50ft pole if I was a Premier League chairman.

Pardew or Giggs would make far too much sense for us to appoint them. I genuinely think Agnew will get the job full-time because Steve Gibson has some strange passion for him as a Manager, most of us are worried about the likelihood of it. Whoever is in charge hopefully won't use Downing too much, we have to keep him because we have him on a silly contract, he was bad in the Championship last year and he was even worse this year. He's basically our version of Rooney at the moment.

I feel like I haven't even mentioned half the problems we had this season, which makes me wonder how many levels Sunderland failed at to (probably) finish below us.

 

[Frozocrone]

It's written in the stars isn't it, Arsenal is going to win all their remaining games and either Man City or Liverpool is going to bottle their Champion's League place...

Sunderland has always been bad, it's only that the last seasons they had an easy 6 points against Newcastle which lifted the team for a game or two and squeeze a few more points

 

[Lipstick Vogue]

Do Norwich still have the Murphy brothers? They've always been good on Football Manager but never known how they've done in real life.

It's taken a long time but this has been the season where the pair of them have really broken into the Norwich first team. I think Jacob managed to tot up about 6 loans away from Norwich over the last few years. Can't believe it's already been 5 years since they really came to our attention in that youth cup run.

We are ridiculously well stocked in the attacking midfielder/winger department. Alex Pritchard, Wes Hoolahan (still going strong), Stephen Naismith, Josh and Jacob Murphy, Yannic Wildschut, James Maddison and of course Matt Jarvis (maybe one day he won't be injured).

 

[Amore]

I suppose I didn't think about Ruddy's wage, do you think a Premier League team will take him?

I don't know why we recruited so heavily from Aston Villa, but for all the fun people will have at Gestede's expense (3 relegations in a row, league record for games lost in a row), he was probably the most useful of the three.

Whoever is in charge hopefully won't use Downing too much, we have to keep him because we have him on a silly contract, he was bad in the Championship last year and he was even worse this year. He's basically our version of Rooney at the moment.

I feel like I haven't even mentioned half the problems we had this season, which makes me wonder how many levels Sunderland failed at to (probably) finish below us.

I heard Fraser Forster hasn't been his usual impervious self? I feel like Southampton would take a punt on Ruddy, or perhaps Bournemouth. A few years ago he was England's 3rd choice after all, because he was decent enough in a bad team. Gestede has a particular skill-set - he's a big guy who does big guy things, so in your current squad
he's basically just a huge step down from Negredo. He'd be fine in the Championship. How has Downing being used? I just remember him having that renaissance as a No. 10 when West Ham briefly looked like the most fun Allardyce team since he left Bolton.

Guardian Ineptitude Index 2016-17 basically shows that you guys have been just terribly boring, nothing more and nothing less.

It's written in the stars isn't it, Arsenal is going to win all their remaining games and either Man City or Liverpool is going to bottle their Champion's League place...

Sunderland has always been bad, it's only that the last seasons they had an easy 6 points against Newcastle which lifted the team for a game or two and squeeze a few more points

Yeah. This is the first time its actually annoying me though. They don't deserve the position. Mourinho decided he wanted one of those trophies you can actually touch rather than 4th place and just gifted them a win, without it their fate still wouldn't be in their own hands. Interestingly though, Giroud is quietly having one of the finest seasons of his career, just Wenger keeps playing Sanchez up front because it occasionally works - so does Son for Spurs but they'd still rather have Janssen come good than rely on him if something happened to Kane.

It was always funny watching Newcastle lose to them. They should never have got rid of Shola.

It's taken a long time but this has been the season where the pair of them have really broken into the Norwich first team. I think Jacob managed to tot up about 6 loans away from Norwich over the last few years. Can't believe it's already been 5 years since they really came to our attention in that youth cup run.

We are ridiculously well stocked in the attacking midfielder/winger department. Alex Pritchard, Wes Hoolahan (still going strong), Stephen Naismith, Josh and Jacob Murphy, Yannic Wildschut, James Maddison and of course Matt Jarvis (maybe one day he won't be injured).

Sounds like a budget version of Wenger or Pep's dream squad. Good to see them getting and taking their chance in possibly the toughest 2nd division in Europe. Hopefully they make the step up soon, preferably with Norwich because the bright kits are a breath of fresh air given how identical a lot of teams' strips look. I'm still waiting for Will Hughes to end up in the PL too.

 

[Eruption]

That ineptitude index article was a good read, very surprised to see Sunderland failed to score in more games than we did.

Downing was played all across the AM line (in FM terms) in his first season back, playing left wing, right wing or attacking mid. This season he has almost exclusively played left wing, his original position. Like I said though, he has been bad at both.

Has Wildschut been good for Norwich? He barely got a look in here.

It looks like United are going to playing the Europa League final.

 

[Lipstick Vogue]

He hasn't played much, from what I have seen he looks useful - quick and strong. Didn't look confident though, perhaps the transfer fee weighing on his mind, he was coming into a struggling team at the time also. I'm not entirely sure why Alex Neil signed him considering he liked his wingers to drift inside and play. Wildschut is clearly a knock the ball past a player and run kind of winger.

Our transfer strategy over the last few years has been to splash big fees on attackers when we need defenders.

 

[Amore]

Well a game at Old Trafford ended dramatically...mostly for the wrong reasons. I'm wondering what the hell John Guidetti said to Eric Bailly that prompted Valencia to throw him to the ground. My initial reaction was that this was another Oxlade-Chamberlain / Gibbs mix-up except Valencia and Bailly are far less similar. It did appear that Bailly deserved his red even if he was presumably provoked.

I now think Ajax will win the Europa League. I just don't see a Smalling-Jones, Smalling-Blind or Jones-Blind central defensive partnership holding up well, and we can't seem to score despite Rashford being so good (my Scottish friends are dreading facing the combined firepower of Rashford, Kane and Alli in June) and the likes of Mkhitaryan and Martial not exactly being slouches either. It is a shame the final's in Stockholm not Wembley as it means we don't start with the Jesse Lingard Wembley 1 goal advantage (seriously, he always scores for us there).

I would have thought given his advancing age Downing would have been moved more centrally, not less. Oh well.

Norwich's transfer policy sounds like most clubs - incredibly imbalanced. In fairness the quality of attacker you can (but won't necessarily) get for your money is far better than defenders, there seems to not be so many good ones to go round. Or maybe its just because current pressing games require the entire team moving as a unit and a lot of these attackers just can't do the required defensive work and let their defenders down, who knows.