The mess otherwise known as Australian politics

[Charlie Brown]

Got the thumbs up from GP to make a megathread to house discussion on the mess otherwise known as Australian politics.

Quite possibly the most bizarre week in Australian politics in quite a while has just ended. From Nick Xenophon revealing he may have British citizenship, to Pauline Hanson's burqa/Scooby Doo 'unmasking' in the senate and George Brandis's powerful speech against her actions; from Eric Abetz claiming that marriage equality will lead to people marrying the Harbour Bridge, and finally the baad puns about Baarnaby Joyce's NZ roots and everything surrounding it (accusations of Aus Labor working with NZ Labour to bring down Barnaby, Julie Bishop saying that she wouldn't work with a NZ Labour govt, all the savage tweets about everything).

Seriously what a mess, is this even real at this point in time. Happy for this thread to go in any relevant direction, but thought we could start with having a chat about our highlights from the last week aha.

 

[gimmepie]

How about we talk about this ridiculous plebiscite? It amazes me that in this day and age, where most of the country really isn't even overly religious, we still don't have gay marriage. So naturally, the logical thing would be to fix that problem and just legalise it already.

Naturally, that's not what the government is doing. Instead we've got a non-binding plebiscite that will very doubtfully see marriage equality achieved even if a majority do vote yes.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

Naturally, that's not what the government is doing. Instead we've got a non-binding plebiscite that will very doubtfully see marriage equality achieved even if a majority do vote yes.

It's not actually a plebiscite anymore, the new format is actually worse because not only is it non-binding and even more expensive than the plebiscite but it's also not compulsory, not protected by any laws surrounding voting (As in, being forced to tell the truth in campaigning, not being able to bribe people ect) and doesn't even have a clear path to becoming binding, if the government chose to make it so.

It'd almost certainly lead to marriage equality if it goes ahead just because the support in the public is so overwhelming, and a conscience vote would win right now if it were done (even discounting the several coalition senators who've outright stated that regardless of the outcome they'd still vote no), but we're already seeing the perpetuated hate speech, the ABC forced to show "both sides" in an issue that has no business being portrayed as such due to the fact one side is the moral and objective best option and the other is nothing.

This is an awful government shooting itself in the foot five ways to sunday because the prime minister is too afraid of conservatives in his party to actually lead the country. Young voters who's views don't align with the coalition are enrolling to vote en masse, the government is publicly showing itself as weak and spineless on eighty different fronts and their popularity is dipping in an unrecoverable way. My only hope is that they're dumb enough to call an early election again so we can get rid of them and correct the democratic mistake we've made twice for no reason other than national sadism

 

[gimmepie]

It's not actually a plebiscite anymore, the new format is actually worse because not only is it non-binding and even more expensive than the plebiscite but it's also not compulsory, not protected by any laws surrounding voting (As in, being forced to tell the truth in campaigning, not being able to bribe people ect) and doesn't even have a clear path to becoming binding, if the government chose to make it so.

It'd almost certainly lead to marriage equality if it goes ahead just because the support in the public is so overwhelming, and a conscience vote would win right now if it were done (even discounting the several coalition senators who've outright stated that regardless of the outcome they'd still vote no), but we're already seeing the perpetuated hate speech, the ABC forced to show "both sides" in an issue that has no business being portrayed as such due to the fact one side is the moral and objective best option and the other is nothing.

This is an awful government shooting itself in the foot five ways to sunday because the prime minister is too afraid of conservatives in his party to actually lead the country. Young voters who's views don't align with the coalition are enrolling to vote en masse, the government is publicly showing itself as weak and spineless on eighty different fronts and their popularity is dipping in an unrecoverable way. My only hope is that they're dumb enough to call an early election again so we can get rid of them and correct the democratic mistake we've made twice for no reason other than national sadism

Honestly that is what pisses me off about Turnbull more than anything. He's actually pretty moderate all things considered, but he has no spine and gets pushed around so much by the more conservative members of the party that things are barely different than when we had Abbott - who has gotten even more vocal/publicly insane through this mess.

I'm honestly not a huge fan of our Labour (I will spell it with a "u" and they can deal with it) party either, but as it currently stands they are afar better choice than the "Liberals" and I have no idea how we even came to be at this point.

Things are such a mess I wouldn't be surprised if we had another early election/PM change.

 

[Charlie Brown]

+1 to what's been said about the postal vote. Massive waste of money, and it's already resulted in awful things being spread by campaigners for the 'no' vote who's turning it into something that's about anything but marriage equality (protect free speech, protect our ideas of gender, protect the kids, etc). And as we head closer to the date of the vote (if it's not defeated by the High Court) things are only going to get worse, and as an LGBT+ person I'm genuinely concerned about what will be said in the media / on social media / in my letterbox / on the street, especially when the LGBT+ community is already so much more at risk to mental health issues and suicide.

And +1 to Turnbull being spineless. It's disgusting that in the past he has critiqued postal votes for being unrepresentative and a waste of money, yet here he is doing one to hold onto his power for however long more he'll have it. And the fact that he has the gall to claim that he is a "strong leader" for doing this (as if a "strong leader" needs to assert that they are a strong leader... surely that is a sign that you are anything but a strong leader).

Did you guys see Bill Shorten's speech about the postal vote last week? This is the kind of passion and strength that Bill's needed to show for a long time and I'm glad it finally came through - this video actually gave me goosebumps and made me teary.

edit: wow what a respectful debate we're having.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

Honestly that is what pisses me off about Turnbull more than anything. He's actually pretty moderate all things considered, but he has no spine and gets pushed around so much by the more conservative members of the party that things are barely different than when we had Abbott - who has gotten even more vocal/publicly insane through this mess.

I'm honestly not a huge fan of our Labour (I will spell it with a "u" and they can deal with it) party either, but as it currently stands they are afar better choice than the "Liberals" and I have no idea how we even came to be at this point.

Turnbull is a moderate who coddles the edge of liberal (in the uh, actual sense of the word not the confusing "name the conservative party the liberal party" sense) but who is more than willing to sell out his moral compass to keep his job. Comparing things he said about the plebiscite to things he's saying now (And the way he replies to people using the exact same arguments against it that he had! By responding with an answer he directly said was unacceptable!) just makes me sad that we've put him in office, and then voted for him again as if usurping the onion goblin somehow fixed the issues with the party at large.

I take issue with some of Labor's stances and some of the ways they pander to try and court the political right rather than doing what's morally right but I find them to be by far the best party, and Bill Shorten is definitely a person I admire more than Turnbull (Although i'll admit that I think Penny Wong would make a better labor leader than him, and I admire her a great deal more). A coalition of a party of cowboys who pretend to be representing rural communities while selling them out to mining companies at the drop of a hat and another party who.... uh, claims to represent business interests and actually does, to the detriment of anyone who's not the CEO of cadbury- are not a combination I really want to see running the country together.

I understand that it's perfectly legal and socially acceptable for the two parties to temporarily pretend to be one party in order to rule the country (due to neither being able to field more than half the votes of their strongest single opponent) but it's always rubbed me the wrong way that they just do that

 

[Her]

The Barnaby Joyce debacle has been seen as pretty embarrassing over here in NZ - mostly to do with how we tend to view the Australian government as incompetent overall. The funny thing that has come out of it is how the your Liberal Party is trying to influence our upcoming election by blaming our Labour Party, despite them having little to do with the scandal whatsoever. All Labour did was point inquirers of Joyce's citizenship to the right department, lol. But the Libs are working with National to try score some scaremongering points out of this incident and it is just embarrassing to watch the deflections taking place, lmao.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Been a busy few days as well:

- WA Liberals vote in favour of a motion to investigate the state seceding

- Tony Abbott took the bait and Bill Shorten shut him down by producing his citizenship papers

- High Court verdict on the legal validity of the marriage equality postal vote will be delivered tomorrow (Thursday) 2:15 AEST after the court hearings yesterday and today.


Bill Shorten's play in particular with his citizenship papers was brilliant. His speech if anyone is interested:

Spoiler:

I want to address comments made by the prime minister and the member for Warringah and other members of the government, suggesting that I might secretly be a UK national – a dual national, like his ministers.

I will not allow the prime minister to use a smear about me as cover for the crisis which engulfs his government.

This silly distraction has to end. The circus has to stop. The country does not have time for it.

So in order to put this matter to rest, once and for all, I seek leave to table a copy of correspondence from the UK Home Office, confirming that I successfully renounced my UK citizenship prior to my election to parliament in 2007.

I accept that if I want to be elected prime minister, there cannot be any doubt about my constitutional eligibility – pushed by the conspiracy theorists like the prime minister and the member for Warringah.

I offer this proof to the parliament today to put an end to baseless allegations, not reward them.

I strongly believe that MPs and senators should not be forced to produce evidence to counter claims that are made completely without evidence.

I repeat, MPs and senators should not be forced to produce evidence to counter claims that are made completely without evidence, no matter which party they are from.

This is our chance to draw a line in the sand. This must end.

In an age of Twitter trolls, baseless online conspiracies, this is a chance for our parliament to declare we are bigger and better than this.

To accept otherwise, to turn our back on the notion that a person making an allegation must have some evidence, sets a dangerous precedent.

I suspect the prime minster and his colleagues knew the claim about me to be completely false.

But that's not their motive. Their tactic is clear.

It is to do anything – no matter how desperate – to distract from the crisis of legitimacy shrouding this government.

The deputy prime minister should not be allowed to serve as acting prime minister. If he does, the entire legitimacy of this government and this parliament is at risk.

And I say to the prime minister: do the right thing, do the honest thing, be the strong leader you claim you are, and make stand the deputy prime minister stand aside.

 

[gimmepie]

I don't think we're going to be seceding. For one thing, the Liberals aren't even in office in WA right now.

Has anyone seen the "No" campaign ads? Absolutely stupid and completely devoid of fact.

Perhaps even more concerning though, is the reform on immigration. They expect immigrants to have found a permanent residence within three weeks of being granted access to the country or they'll face deportation. On the plus side though, millions of dollars have been awarded to the people wronged in our detention centres (millions we couldn't afford but...)

We have so much we need to fix right now.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

I'd like to be mad about the multitude of things the government is somehow doing objectively wrong, but i'm too dissapointed and distressed by this whole supreme court decision and Malcom Turnbill's spineless smug attitude about it, even mocking and turning down an attempt at bipartisan support for a yes vote

 

[curiousnathan]

Marriage equality will become a thing in Australia one day; if not now, in the future. It's inevitable no matter how many homophobic and/or religious nuts come out of the woodworks.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

Marriage equality will become a thing in Australia one day; if not now, in the future. It's inevitable no matter how many homophobic and/or religious nuts come out of the woodworks.

That's definitely true, but how many hateful, vile and harmful public discussions/claims/advertisements/campaigns do we have to stand against to get it?

I don't think anyone truly thinks it's not inevitable but this process is causing irreversible harm to vulnerable people. I believe Bill Shorten mentioned something to the effect of "if one child commits suicide over the plebiscite, then that is one too many" during the period of voting over the plebiscite, and it's a pretty harrowing and accurate assessment.

I don't know if this process has played any part in any deaths so far, or if it will at all, but the possibility and risk is always there, and we all know who's hands it should be on.

Obviously you're not disagreeing with me at all, I just wanted to use you as a springboard here

 

[curiousnathan]

That's definitely true, but how many hateful, vile and harmful public discussions/claims/advertisements/campaigns do we have to stand against to get it?

I don't think anyone truly thinks it's not inevitable but this process is causing irreversible harm to vulnerable people. I believe Bill Shorten mentioned something to the effect of "if one child commits suicide over the plebiscite, then that is one too many" during the period of voting over the plebiscite, and it's a pretty harrowing and accurate assessment.

I don't know if this process has played any part in any deaths so far, or if it will at all, but the possibility and risk is always there, and we all know who's hands it should be on.

Obviously you're not disagreeing with me at all, I just wanted to use you as a springboard here

Yeah, I agree completely. I just like to remember what I said as the hate spills everywhere; it's a good reminder. It doesn't make having hateful, vile and harmful public discussions/claims/advertisements/campaigns morally right, it's true.

 

[Nah]

anything happen lately in Australia?

 

[gimmepie]

anything happen lately in Australia?

The results are in and it was a victory for the Yes camp. Proceedings have begun in parliament to discuss the actual law, the trouble now is how long the liberals will delay the actual change and what stupid stipulations they might add.

Amusing that now after the vote Turnbull has stopped singing the song of his people and is talking about the legalisation of gay marriage positively. What a spineless joke he turned out to be.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

The results are in and it was a victory for the Yes camp. Proceedings have begun in parliament to discuss the actual law, the trouble now is how long the liberals will delay the actual change and what stupid stipulations they might add.

I think the issues aren't the stipulations they'll add, they don't have the majority to push awful things and the general consensus seems to be wanting no stipulations, but instead the way they'll poison on the bills and prevent them from passing.

Lyle shelton and the ACL drafted that one recent liberals bill (that had a worrying amount of support from the necromancer-looking side of the coalition) that'd effectively legalise discrimination and make it a secondary form of marriage unattached to the first. Requests for things that'd poison the bills and delay something getting passed are going to go wild over the next few months and it's going to be awful for everyone

Amusing that now after the vote Turnbull has stopped singing the song of his people and is talking about the legalisation of gay marriage positively. What a spineless joke he turned out to be.

The way he immediately turned around and blamed labour for "refusing to let the people have their say" once the result went through was pretty despicable, especially since we know for a fact they were right, and that so many people have been harmed by this whole process.

His government is in it's twilight and it's only a matter of time until either he's replaced, probably by someone worse, or he gets desperate enough to pull another election gambit and then just loses