The PCNation

[gimmepie]

How about, considering everyone's various concerns, we establish a point going something like

"The role of the government, first and foremost, is to serve the citizens and adequately represent the wishes of the majority. This will be achieved by..."

 

[KetsuekiR]

I also do not think the government should run the police force.

Who, then, should? A privately run police force would be far more corrupt than one run by the government.

"The role of the government, first and foremost, is to serve the citizens and adequately represent the wishes of the majority. This will be achieved by..."

The creation of constitutions agreed upon by the majority of those affected by it.

 

[Kanzler]

The thing about privatization and an excessively limited government is this: you're handing the reins of power from the devil we do know to the devil we don't know. Then you say that the free market will handle it all, justice and public accountability be damned, and call it a day.

 

[gimmepie]

Privatisation is horrible, it almost always results in a restriction of fundamental rights in which only the rich have access to best quality education, healthcare and the like. This is something becoming a problem here in Australia and I'd rather not see it happen in our hypothetical little nation here.

The government needs to maintain a good amount of control so it can assure that citizens all receive the same, or at least similar, access to resources and that the lower classes are looked after.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Privatisation is horrible, it almost always results in a restriction of fundamental rights in which only the rich have access to best quality education, healthcare and the like. This is something becoming a problem here in Australia and I'd rather not see it happen in our hypothetical little nation here.

The government needs to maintain a good amount of control so it can assure that citizens all receive the same, or at least similar, access to resources and that the lower classes are looked after.

I think we should make a list of what should be public first then, and have everything not listed be private. However, since we picked capitalism we can't have too many public institutions...

 

[Sopheria]

I think we should make a list of what should be public first then, and have everything not listed be private. However, since we picked capitalism we can't have too many public institutions...

I think that if the PC nation were socialist, it would control all institutions that serve the public, including medical facilities, healthcare, schools, etc. Since we've gone with capitalism, there will be private institutions, but that doesn't mean there can't also be analogous public institutions run by the government alongside them. Therefore private alternatives are there for those with the resources to afford it, but the government also provides them for people who can't.

For example, there could be public schools, but private schools can also be available for anyone who wants to pay a little extra for the higher quality.

 

[Sword Master]

So about our health system? I want to create a NHS type institution for our Nation instead of a American style Health system which leaves a lot of people out of Health care.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

So about our health system? I want to create a NHS type institution for our Nation instead of a American style Health system which leaves a lot of people out of Health care.

NHS have issues attracting doctors is what I've heard, so perhaps we should try to come up with some incentives to attract future doctors (we have to acknowledge that not everyone will spend years at school studying difficult material just to help others for average pay, especially when there are more lucrative careers) if we go with that.

If we go with an American style system we hopefully will allow for buying of health care across state lines.

 

[Kanzler]

NHS have issues attracting doctors is what I've heard, so perhaps we should try to come up with some incentives to attract future doctors (we have to acknowledge that not everyone will spend years at school studying difficult material just to help others for average pay, especially when there are more lucrative careers) if we go with that.

If we go with an American style system we hopefully will allow for buying of health care across state lines.

The process of becoming a doctor is competitive enough - I can't imagine that there would be issues of attracting doctors in the West. Besides, attracting doctors primarily with financial gain is sending the wrong message. The pay, in itself, is honestly quite good. I imagine that very few of us on this forum will one day attain a pay just as high, if not better.

 

[Somewhere_]

Who, then, should? A privately run police force would be far more corrupt than one run by the government.


The creation of constitutions agreed upon by the majority of those affected by it.

Privately run police forces will compete amongst one another for the best services possible. Companies with the most civilian deaths, brutality, and inefficiency will die out. As a result, companies will compete for the best services with the quickest reaction times, etc. Privately run companies will serve and protect the citizens, not just the law, like many modern police forces.

 

[KetsuekiR]

Privately run police forces will compete amongst one another for the best services possible. Companies with the most civilian deaths, brutality, and inefficiency will die out. As a result, companies will compete for the best services with the quickest reaction times, etc. Privately run companies will serve and protect the citizens, not just the law, like many modern police forces.

In theory, this sounds perfect. In reality, humans are beings of greed and pride. A privately run police force would not enforce equal law to the citizens as it is ultimately controlled by the owners of the company. I'm not saying a governmental police force is without corruption but a privately run one is corrupted from the day it opens.

 

[Kanzler]

Privately run police forces will compete amongst one another for the best services possible. Companies with the most civilian deaths, brutality, and inefficiency will die out. As a result, companies will compete for the best services with the quickest reaction times, etc. Privately run companies will serve and protect the citizens, not just the law, like many modern police forces.

And men with guns who amass capital for the sole purpose of developing their deadly force won't ever try to use that capital to rule by force? And you'd want to offer up the enforcement of justice to people you can't control? And you don't see a problem with a conflict of interest between money and justice?

 

[Somewhere_]

We have people killed by police every single day (average is 3)! And many of these officers get off free! A rule by force would be very difficult considering they would have to be funded by the people they are attacking and the amount of people that own guns. The owners of the company are ultimately controlled by the people because, without them, they have nothing.

 

[Kanzler]

We have people killed by police every single day (average is 3)! And many of these officers get off free! A rule by force would be very difficult considering they would have to be funded by the people they are attacking and the amount of people that own guns. The owners of the company are ultimately controlled by the people because, without them, they have nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta

 

[KetsuekiR]

We have people killed by police every single day (average is 3)! And many of these officers get off free! A rule by force would be very difficult considering they would have to be funded by the people they are attacking and the amount of people that own guns. The owners of the company are ultimately controlled by the people because, without them, they have nothing.

Or is it that without them, the people have nothing? While it is true that till a certain point, the owners of said companies are under the control of the general public, there will be a point beyond which the power they hold is too great to stop, if misused. It's one of the Problems of Evil, I believe.

 

[Somewhere_]

Or is it that without them, the people have nothing? While it is true that till a certain point, the owners of said companies are under the control of the general public, there will be a point beyond which the power they hold is too great to stop, if misused. It's one of the Problems of Evil, I believe.

Are you suggesting a private security force could take over an entire town/city, institute their own laws, and rule?

This could not happen because the citizens own guns, will cease to receive funding, and somehow have to pay their police to continue killing people to take over.

 

[Kanzler]

Are you suggesting a private security force could take over an entire town/city, institute their own laws, and rule?

This could not happen because the citizens own guns, will cease to receive funding, and somehow have to pay their police to continue killing people to take over.

The average citizen is not fit for combat, nor are they highly trained in the use of firearms. A private security force, on the other hand, that's all they do for a living. If a private security force ceases to receive funding from citizens, then they can just take it by force. They have better guns, better organization, and better training. I don't know why you think that just because a citizen has a gun, that makes them a warrior. You're handwaving or ignoring all these very salient issues.

 

[Somewhere_]

The average citizen is not fit for combat, nor are they highly trained in the use of firearms. A private security force, on the other hand, that's all they do for a living. If a private security force ceases to receive funding from citizens, then they can just take it by force. They have better guns, better organization, and better training. I don't know why you think that just because a citizen has a gun, that makes them a warrior. You're handwaving or ignoring all these very salient issues.

True. A citizen does not have the training to compete with those in a private security force. We will still have a military, which would most likely be the best for defense against a totally corrupt private police force. However, that would make the city a war zone which would result in greater civilian casualties.

I do not think I know enough to continue the debate. I want to look a bit more into it later.

I would still like to know how you would prevent the government or city-run police forces from becoming corrupt themselves? We see so many cases of unchecked police brutality and killings (which is exactly what both sides result in). What is your solution?

 

[Kanzler]

I don't think having a police force accountable to the public should be difficult to do in a free and fair society. It should allow the Crown (whelp that's my Canadianism for this thread) to adequately investigate and punish wrongdoers, no matter if they're police or civilian. Things like having meaningful punishment for wrongdoers, encouraging transparency and communication between the police and community, and creating institutions that can enforce meaningful civilian oversight over a police force can all help. Personally, I'm surprised at the level of police violence in the US when I don't see similar issues going on in other Western countries. Perhaps the violence we see is more of an American issue than a problem common to all democracies in general.

At the end of the day, the government police force is going to have some level of civilian oversight. I don't think you can get that with a private security organization.

 

[KetsuekiR]

Are you suggesting a private security force could take over an entire town/city, institute their own laws, and rule?

This could not happen because the citizens own guns, will cease to receive funding, and somehow have to pay their police to continue killing people to take over.

So in the end, you're left with dead citizens who kill police officers of a dismantled police force. You'll end up with no police force and dead people.