The Problem With OC

[Alex]

Sure, we could spend more time acting like an other forum than a Pokémon forum.

But I don't think we need that kind of dedication.

Wait, why are you on staff again? I thought staff members were here to better the functionality of the forum and overall happiness of members interacting on that forum. What could changing OC a bit hurt.

This isn't about dedication, this is about your own personal stubbornness.

 

[Nick]

My concern is if this is an issue with the forum itself or the members of the forum. Is it a problem in the way the forum is built that causes these issues to occur, or is it because the members make them occur? Thread prefixes may fix this issue very easily. A thread prefix for debates, a thread prefix for discussions. At the very least, it'll help us identify the problem. If people start debating in a thread that has a discussion prefix, the problem is clear and we can deal with it accordingly. If that doesn't occur, and this still goes on, then the problem isn't with the members, but with the forum itself - and we might have to look into restructuring it.

 

[Abnegation]

My concern is if this is an issue with the forum itself or the members of the forum. Is it a problem in the way the forum is built that causes these issues to occur, or is it because the members make them occur? Thread prefixes may fix this issue very easily. A thread prefix for debates, a thread prefix for discussions. At the very least, it'll help us identify the problem. If people start debating in a thread that has a discussion prefix, the problem is clear and we can deal with it accordingly. If that doesn't occur, and this still goes on, then the problem isn't with the members, but with the forum itself - and we might have to look into restructuring it.

The members being the issue was something I raised earlier, so I have to agree. So by taking your point as to how the prefixes would help again I would have to agree. I think prefixes would avoid confusion as to the type of thread people are posting in. Some tend to debate in the wrong kind of threads.

But above all, people need to know the difference between argument and debate.

 

[moments.]

Regarding prefixes though, I've seen in other sections prefixes being used incorrectly and stuff, and while it didn't really matter in those forums, in OC, using the wrong prefix completely changes the gist of a thread, and might not be easily noticed it as a mistake.

I'm not saying their shouldn't be prefixes, I like the idea more than subforums, but just an idea for thought. Also, I'm sure a whole lot of people might not notice prefixes they can change and leave them blank, which won't help a whole lot easier.

I didn't think OC really needed this change, but I guess it would make it clearer and more organised. Then again, and like everyone else has said, really it comes down to Live.

 

[Nick]

But above all, people need to know the difference between argument and debate.

A more pressing issue would be those who can't differentiate between a discussion and a debate.

 

[Oryx]

As far as prefixes, I really don't feel like that accomplishes as much as an actual subforum for more serious discussions. There will still be that tense atmosphere in OC, to begin with. Part of the point of the subforum was to make the main forum more open and fun to post in, and less of "only come to OC if you want to debate people". Prefixes also don't allow Live to put harsher rules on debates as easily, as that could easily confuse people if it was separate rules for separate prefixes, especially when a thread has no prefix at all. It also doesn't streamline as much as subforums would except for the people that are looking for both casual and serious discussion at once, which is most likely in the minority compared to people that are either looking for a serious topic or looking to just casually post.

Maybe I'm missing something though. What's the inherent value in prefixes that make them a better solution than a subforum?

 

[Esper]

Maybe I'm missing something though. What's the inherent value in prefixes that make them a better solution than a subforum?

Prefixes are a small change rather than a big change and are kind of a middle ground between the people who want something like a new subforum and the people who don't see a need to make any changes to the structure of OC. They could be a small scale experiment.

 

[Abnegation]

A more pressing issue would be those who can't differentiate between a discussion and a debate.

Then additions to the rules, and how to post in OC, would be a necessary inclusion in that case. However, people make the thread and decide what they want to get out of it in the first post, the same goes for a prefix. If Live/higher staff/future OC staff think that the prefix was better as something else, then all they need do is change it. But I can't see it creating too much of an issue.

 

[Nick]

As far as prefixes, I really don't feel like that accomplishes as much as an actual subforum for more serious discussions. There will still be that tense atmosphere in OC, to begin with. Part of the point of the subforum was to make the main forum more open and fun to post in, and less of "only come to OC if you want to debate people". Prefixes also don't allow Live to put harsher rules on debates as easily, as that could easily confuse people if it was separate rules for separate prefixes, especially when a thread has no prefix at all. It also doesn't streamline as much as subforums would except for the people that are looking for both casual and serious discussion at once, which is most likely in the minority compared to people that are either looking for a serious topic or looking to just casually post.

Maybe I'm missing something though. What's the inherent value in prefixes that make them a better solution than a subforum?

While I don't necessarily agree that prefixes will prevent Live from providing harsher rules on debates (really, all it takes is something like "ANYTHING WITH A DEBATE PREFIX..." be added to the rules), I agree with the bold, and think that's the most important thing that needs to be addressed regarding OC as it deals with promotion and member-based issues. A lot of the problems, I think, essentially stem from that. If the atmosphere wasn't the way it is, perhaps members wouldn't turn everything into a debate?

 

[bobandbill]

And I also agree with that, which is probably why I'm not quite the big fan of OC myself. Certainly think subforums is the way to go for it, although how many/what exactly beyond one for debates (which I most certainly think is doable) I'm not sure what I think should be the case tbh.

 

[Melody]

I like the prefix ideas but my only problem with it is simply that as previously mentioned, they can be made superfluous and relatively useless when you get a lot of newbs who don't know they're supposed to tag the thread with some prefix. Naturally Live can edit those to a prefix he sees fit but eh. If nobody uses the prefixes then they're doing no good.

So I'm still all for the subforum. That way if someone forgets a prefix, all they did was forget to classify what type of debate it was and that's far less damaging in my eyes.

 

[Oryx]

Basically the way I see it is if we're going so far as to make different rules for different prefixes, then that should be a sign that it's too complicated for prefixes, especially since you can have no prefix. What rule would that fall under? Would Live have to judge all the ones without a prefix and add one based on the first post? Or would there just be a set of rules for threads with no prefix? I just think it's kind of silly when a subforum does the same thing better.

 

[Livewire]

If it helps me out, at this point, I'd willingly go and manually edit [Debate] & [Discussion] tags into the title's of the first 2 pages of active threads, and add them for all new subsequent ones.

 

[Melody]

That may be useful in the interim while we press for a subforum Live_Wire.

 

[Oryx]

Haha, is this like OC martial law until h-staff decides whether or not to add a subforum or prefixes?

 

[Netto Azure]

Haha, is this like OC martial law until h-staff decides whether or not to add a subforum or prefixes?

I like that idea. Just cuz I play too many RTS games. xD

That aside, 1 sub forum should deal with most of the issues. Plus general tags/Prefixes for specific topics.

In BMGf we use "RIP, Science, Diplomacy, Sports, History, Disaster, War, and Secession" (LOL) for the prefix options. You guys could just add more Prefix' if more general topics need to be addressed.

That system I outlined should take care of the reason why people want multiple sub forums eh?

Plus it incorporates all the ideas brought up so far. 8D

 

[Livewire]

Haha, is this like OC martial law until h-staff decides whether or not to add a subforum or prefixes?

It seems like that is my only alternative.

Also, this isn't dead yet.

 

[Kura]

Could we just maybe have a subforum for politics and law-stuff? There's a lot of stuff that involves American politics/ events that as a member from outside the states, I don't care much for.
News INCLUDING America and ALSO general news articles/discussions can stay on the main page as I am sure that everyone wants to know what news is going on in the world.. but for more political/controversial threads maybe put them somewhere different?
News and general offtopic chat (IE food thread and a thread about outer space etc) IMO acts as a casual section which would be the main section.. whereas politics gets really in-depth and you gotta know what's actually going on with em to be involved in that thread.. and could be put as a subforum for not as generalized discussion.

Just a suggestion *shrug*

 

[Ineffable~]

Could we just maybe have a subforum for politics and law-stuff? There's a lot of stuff that involves American politics/ events that as a member from outside the states, I don't care much for.
News INCLUDING America and ALSO general news articles/discussions can stay on the main page as I am sure that everyone wants to know what news is going on in the world.. but for more political/controversial threads maybe put them somewhere different?
News and general offtopic chat (IE food thread and a thread about outer space etc) IMO acts as a casual section which would be the main section.. whereas politics gets really in-depth and you gotta know what's actually going on with em to be involved in that thread.. and could be put as a subforum for not as generalized discussion.

Just a suggestion *shrug*

Just because I'm dense right now and honestly can't tell, what is the difference between that layout and the layout we were already discussing? (i.e. the one I kept supporting)

 

[Oryx]

Just because I'm dense right now and honestly can't tell, what is the difference between that layout and the layout we were already discussing? (i.e. the one I kept supporting)

The biggest difference is every debate not related to news in this idea would remain on the front page, such as "Your View on God" (I don't visit that thread but it looks like it would have debate), "Will Humans Evolve Further", etc.