US Immigration Reform

[Radiating]

Trump is crazy. He's a businessman who has no idea what he's doing. Most of his cabinet has rich people including his failure secretary of education. Blocking immigration from the middle east is a good idea, because of the "Refugees" destroying europe. But making Mexico pay for a wall the US wants? No. He also plans to plan 11 million+ immigrants, you can't do that! Many are actually hard workers and looking for opportunities. He should focus and deporting the crime committers only.

 

[Majestic Electric]

I'm going to get so much hate for this....

Say what you will about Pence, but I'd much rather have him as president instead of an idiot who has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Yes, I think Trump is a moron, but he's not completely wrong about illegal immigration. Yes, a lot of them are hard workers and have done a lot of good for the U.S economy, but if you do anything illegal, you are subject to punishment. It's that simple. Yes, the U.S is a country of immigrants, but you know what they did on Ellis Island if you didn't have the proper paperwork and legal documents? They kicked you out. You know what happens if you go to any other country in the world without proper paperwork or a visa? They kick you out. So, why should the U.S be any different? I do not hate immigrants whatsoever, but they gotta do it legally.

Surprisingly, Trump had some Latino supporters. Guess what they all had in common? They were legal immigrants. And you know, I understand their anger. They had to go through the entire process, getting paperwork signed and waiting to get approved, and then here's someone that essentially cut in line and is allowed on through. They are like that kid that cuts in front of you in the lunch line that everyone hated because he couldn't wait his turn. Same thing applies. Does that make these legal immigrants racist against their own people? No!

And you know, that's another thing that I utterly hate about the media. Suddenly, if you are against illegal immigration, that makes you racist against Latinos and other groups. That doesn't make any sense! And this is coming from a Democrat!

I do think Trump is going about this entirely wrong though. He should do what Ronald Reagan did in the late 80's and give amnesty to all the illegal immigrants who are already here. Those who are already here definitely should be given amnesty, I agree with that! However, we just got to prevent more people from coming across the border illegally. That's just what I think.

 

[gimmepie]

I'm going to get so much hate for this....

Say what you will about Pence, but I'd much rather have him as president instead of an idiot who has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Yes, I think Trump is a moron, but he's not completely wrong about illegal immigration. Yes, a lot of them are hard workers and have done a lot of good for the U.S economy, but if you do anything illegal, you are subject to punishment. It's that simple. Yes, the U.S is a country of immigrants, but you know what they did on Ellis Island if you didn't have the proper paperwork and legal documents? They kicked you out. You know what happens if you go to any other country in the world without proper paperwork or a visa? They kick you out. So, why should the U.S be any different? I do not hate immigrants whatsoever, but they gotta do it legally.

Surprisingly, Trump had some Latino supporters. Guess what they all had in common? They were legal immigrants. And you know, I understand their anger. They had to go through the entire process, getting paperwork signed and waiting to get approved, and then here's someone that essentially cut in line and is allowed on through. They are like that kid that cuts in front of you in the lunch line that everyone hated because he couldn't wait his turn. Same thing applies. Does that make these legal immigrants racist against their own people? No!

And you know, that's another thing that I utterly hate about the media. Suddenly, if you are against illegal immigration, that makes you racist against Latinos and other groups. That doesn't make any sense! And this is coming from a Democrat!

I do think Trump is going about this entirely wrong though. He should do what Ronald Reagan did in the late 80's and give amnesty to all the illegal immigrants who are already here. Those who are already here definitely should be given amnesty, I agree with that! However, we just got to prevent more people from coming across the border illegally. That's just what I think.

It'd be much easier to stop people coming in illegally if you stopped making it ridiculously difficult to get in legally in the first place. The reason immigrants come in illegally is because they live in terrible places and are frequently in danger. They'd happily move legally if they could but they need to get out of Mexico/wherever else quickly and the US' convoluted immigration system doesn't allow for that.

 

[Majestic Electric]

It'd be much easier to stop people coming in illegally if you stopped making it ridiculously difficult to get in legally in the first place. The reason immigrants come in illegally is because they live in terrible places and are frequently in danger. They'd happily move legally if they could but they need to get out of Mexico/wherever else quickly and the US' convoluted immigration system doesn't allow for that.

I definitely don't disagree with you there. The United States have no one to blame but themselves for making it so hard to come to the country legally. It's stupid. If they made the process faster and easier, the majority of the problems would just disappear, not to mention the fact that, as you said, people are doing it out of fear for their lives. It even says in our constitution that everyone has the right to life.

Honestly, if Trump were smart, he would do something to fix the system instead of straight up deporting millions of people. Also, I don't care what Trump says. If you were born in the U.S, you are an American citizen. Absolutely no exceptions!

 

[Esper]

I feel pretty dumb about believing the talk about Obama deporting more people than Bush and other presidents. It's technically true, but then you learn that the majority of people where ones who had been caught right after they'd crossed the border rather than ICE raids into neighborhoods.

if you do anything illegal, you are subject to punishment. It's that simple. Yes, the U.S is a country of immigrants, but you know what they did on Ellis Island if you didn't have the proper paperwork and legal documents? They kicked you out. You know what happens if you go to any other country in the world without proper paperwork or a visa? They kick you out. So, why should the U.S be any different? I do not hate immigrants whatsoever, but they gotta do it legally.

No statute of limitations then? No, "You've been here for 10+ years, you can stay if you apply for citizenship/greencard/etc.? What about those under DACA (people who came as children)?

Surprisingly, Trump had some Latino supporters. Guess what they all had in common? They were legal immigrants. And you know, I understand their anger. They had to go through the entire process, getting paperwork signed and waiting to get approved, and then here's someone that essentially cut in line and is allowed on through. They are like that kid that cuts in front of you in the lunch line that everyone hated because he couldn't wait his turn. Same thing applies. Does that make these legal immigrants racist against their own people? No!

And you know, that's another thing that I utterly hate about the media. Suddenly, if you are against illegal immigration, that makes you racist against Latinos and other groups. That doesn't make any sense! And this is coming from a Democrat!

I do think Trump is going about this entirely wrong though. He should do what Ronald Reagan did in the late 80's and give amnesty to all the illegal immigrants who are already here. Those who are already here definitely should be given amnesty, I agree with that! However, we just got to prevent more people from coming across the border illegally. That's just what I think.

Ah, I guess I should have read further down. Anyway, regarding Trump's Latino supporters, not all are immigrants, of course. They could just as easily be natural born citizens. But let's say a bunch weren't. They're upset because they had to go through this whole long, expensive process and others didn't? I get that, but the process shouldn't be so arduous in the first place. Instead of saying "hey, you over there, you must suffer like I did" they could say "hey, I think I suffered needlessly and I don't want other people to have to do that". Suffer might be too strong a word in some cases, but I think my point is clear enough.

 

[Majestic Electric]

Ah, I guess I should have read further down. Anyway, regarding Trump's Latino supporters, not all are immigrants, of course. They could just as easily be natural born citizens. But let's say a bunch weren't. They're upset because they had to go through this whole long, expensive process and others didn't? I get that, but the process shouldn't be so arduous in the first place. Instead of saying "hey, you over there, you must suffer like I did" they could say "hey, I think I suffered needlessly and I don't want other people to have to do that". Suffer might be too strong a word in some cases, but I think my point is clear enough.

Yeah, please don't get the wrong idea. I'm strongly for giving those who are already here amnesty instead of just deporting them. Ronald Reagan did that during his presidency and it was a great move on his part! I just think the U.S needs to do more to prevent more people in the future from coming to the U.S illegally, that's all. And of course anyone would be an American citizen if they were born in the U.S. There should be no exceptions on that. It is incredibly dumb how hard the U.S makes it to come here legally. Instead of deporting millions of people, how about those who are hear already be given amnesty and just fix the system to make it easier and faster? That would solve the majority of problems.

But try to think of it this way: let's say you are about to apply to college. You have amazing grades, extracurricular activities under your belt, and you are a hard worker. You think you'll have no problem getting into an Ivy League school. But then you find out you got rejected. Now, let's say you know a guy who got into an Ivy League, but he didn't work hard for it. He basically cheated his way through. That would be unfair, right? Same thing kinda applies here.

 

[Kanzler]

But try to think of it this way: let's say you are about to apply to college. You have amazing grades, extracurricular activities under your belt, and you are a hard worker. You think you'll have no problem getting into an Ivy League school. But then you find out you got rejected. Now, let's say you know a guy who got into an Ivy League, but he didn't work hard for it. He basically cheated his way through. That would be unfair, right? Same thing kinda applies here.

That's fair to say, but what if the guy who cheated his way into an Ivy League school ended up doing amazing things before he was caught? Maybe he was involved in a research breakthrough, or began a promising new start-up, or otherwise just made good use of his education. Should we revoke his education credentials then? I think there's a degree of amnesty that should be allowed. Obviously we should support and encourage immigration through the appropriate channels, but if people who migrated illegally ended up settling and making contributions to their community, then I think in certain cases the ends justifies the means and that individual should not be deported despite their illegal entry.

I agree with you with the whole amnesty piece and thought I'd just take the analogy a bit further.

 

[Majestic Electric]

That's fair to say, but what if the guy who cheated his way into an Ivy League school ended up doing amazing things before he was caught? Maybe he was involved in a research breakthrough, or began a promising new start-up, or otherwise just made good use of his education. Should we revoke his education credentials then?

While that is a valid point, what are the odds of that actually happening? You would need to have at least a Doctorate degree to even do reasearch. I would know, since that's what I want to do after college and I've been told I need a Doctorate to get in to that (unless the credentials have changed in the last 2 years). Of course, there will always be exceptions to rules, but with the research example you mentioned, the odds of that happening are pretty low from what I understand. However, I do agree with you that there are some exceptions to the rules.

I think there's a degree of amnesty that should be allowed. Obviously we should support and encourage immigration through the appropriate channels, but if people who migrated illegally ended up settling and making contributions to their community, then I think in certain cases the ends justifies the means and that individual should not be deported despite their illegal entry.

Like I said, if people are already here illegally, they should be given amnesty. The problem with out right deportation is, not only would it cost a lot, but in a lot of cases, America is the only country these people know, especially if they were born here! They don't know much of anything about how Mexico / other Latin American countries work because they were born here, so it is completely wrong to deport them, especially if they are children. And people who are born here are American citizens! Trump is a moron to think otherwise! He fails to see that a lot of these illegal immigrants have done great things for their communities, and he is just blind to the truth of that.