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Were you disappointed in no Z?

François2

#FutureSun&MoonMod
396
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11
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  • I suppose the odd thing though is that it's actually not too soon. ~3 years is pretty common for a generation's life span. Going by North American release dates:

    Gen 1: 1998-2000
    Gen 2: 2000-2003
    Gen 3: 2003-2007
    Gen 4: 2007-2010
    Gen 5: 2010-2013
    Gen 6: 2013-2016

    But yet this does feel a little shorter or soon for some reason.

    I'm pretty sure the feeling of it being a brief generation just comes down to most of us still being in "Waiting for the sequel..." mode. The generation has technically been going on since 2013 but it's been very empty in comparison to other generations despite ORAS and I think if there really is no more to it then it'll always be seen as a non-event.

    While a lot of us may not be fans of sequels being a thing, I think they really do contribute to how fleshed out a generation feels. X&Y feels sorely lacking in depth and I'm pretty sure that comes down primarily to the lack of Z.
     
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  • While a lot of us may not be fans of sequels being a thing, I think they really do contribute to how fleshed out a generation feels. X&Y feels sorely lacking in depth and I'm pretty sure that comes down primarily to the lack of Z.

    I seem to agree with this (oh and your usertitle is making me laugh btw) because 6th Gen now seems to be confirmed to be lasting as long as 5th Gen did, and both these generations only put out two paired games but no stand-alone version. It didn't hit 5th Gen as hard given how big B2/W2 were with the postgame, but the lack of an enhanced game did hit 6th Gen harder given X/Y had many loose ends that we'll likely never see get tied up, and that's why I'm speculating this generation wasn't as well-received as we hoped for.
     

    pkmin3033

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    The third games are always the superior versions of the generation in my opinion, because they always add substantially more to the game and to its plot. From Gen III onwards, where Legendary plots have become a standard thing, it feels like you're only getting half a story with standard Pokemon games, because you only get to focus on one of the mascot Legendaries. The third game usually has both alongside a third one that takes center stage, and it feels much more complete in that regard. The story might still be woefully lackluster, but at least it's complete.

    Sun and Moon, if they're sequels to X and Y set in a different part of Kalos, will probably feel a lot like B2W2 did - interesting, half-finished continuations. I think I prefer that approach, because playing a brand new story is better than revisiting the old one with a few touch-ups to make it feel more complete, but it's still going to feel incomplete for that singular focus on one of two Legendaries...

    It'd be quite interesting if Sun and Moon were sequels to Kalos in the same fashion as Gold and Silver were to Red and Blue, where the Legendary mascot is just a mascot, rather than a driving plot point. I think I'd actually prefer that in some respects.
     
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    Elysieum

    Requiescat en pace.
    258
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • I am rather disappointed. I think Kalos had some more mileage to enjoy. I was hoping it would see the same treatment as Unova had in its sequel.

    I don't really care that generations have technically had a 3 year running in the past. Somehow it feels too soon for an entirely new crop of games.
     

    Harmonie

    Winds ღ
    1,075
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    17
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  • I would have bought a Z version, and I'm saying that not having bought a third version since Crystal. However, that was less about what I really wanted it to add, and more about the fact that I was just missing the Pokemon game of the year that I was used to since 2011 (I played HeartGold and Black late).

    I'm very happy that we're going into a new generation instead. It would be great if it Sun/Moon were sequels to X/Y like G/S/C were sequels to R/B (potentially allowing for Kalos to be explored again post-game?) but I'm not counting on it.
     

    Ho-Oh

    used Sacred Fire!
    35,992
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    I suppose the odd thing though is that it's actually not too soon. ~3 years is pretty common for a generation's life span. Going by North American release dates:

    Gen 1: 1998-2000
    Gen 2: 2000-2003
    Gen 3: 2003-2007
    Gen 4: 2007-2010
    Gen 5: 2010-2013
    Gen 6: 2013-2016

    But yet this does feel a little shorter or soon for some reason.

    Personally Unova felt way shorter to me. Maybe because I had less happening in my life, but this generation has seemed to have dragged on. Not having Z means we zoom into gen 7 quicker and waiting yet another year for the next generation would've made a lot of people lose interest I think. There's only so much you could do with Zygarde being scattered all over the region without it becoming similar to a spinoff. I couldn't have seem them done much else to change the story to warrant a new game other than making Zygarde grand ruler of Kalos. Flare-wise I think there wasn't much they could do anyway. But that's just my opinion.
     
    895
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    • Seen Apr 22, 2018
    The biggest reason Gens 3 and 4 lasted longer was because of remakes. (Gen 4, for example, would've never lasted into 2010 if not for HGSS.) Gen 5 was the first gen since Gen 2 to not have any remakes of past gens, so while Gen 5 may have felt "short" compared to the previous two gens, it really wasn't any shorter than Gen 2 was (1999-2002 vs 2010-2013).

    As for Gen 6, the biggest reason it feels cut-short is because of the lack of a follow-up for XY. Every other gen had either a third version (Yellow/Crystal/Emerald/Platinum) or sequel (B2W2) that expanded on the initial pair and tried to fill in the gaps and fix the bugs. It's a first for XY to be left as a standalone pair with no follow-up, whatsoever, which is unfortunate because XY are rather incomplete, unpolished games. Imagine what it would've been like if Emerald and Platinum never happened, and we were stuck with RS and DP as the "definitive" Hoenn and Sinnoh games...
     
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  • The biggest reason Gens 3 and 4 lasted longer was because of remakes. (Gen 4, for example, would've never lasted into 2010 if not for HGSS.) Gen 5 was the first gen since Gen 2 to not have any remakes of past gens, so while Gen 5 may have felt "short" compared to the previous two gens, it really wasn't any shorter than Gen 2 was (1999-2002 vs 2010-2013).

    As for Gen 6, the biggest reason it feels cut-short is because of the lack of a follow-up for XY. Every other gen had either a third version (Yellow/Crystal/Emerald/Platinum) or sequel (B2W2) that expanded on the initial pair and tried to fill in the gaps and fix the bugs. It's a first for XY to be left as a standalone pair with no follow-up, whatsoever, which is unfortunate because XY are rather incomplete, unpolished games. Imagine what it would've been like if Emerald and Platinum never happened, and we were stuck with RS and DP as the "definitive" Hoenn and Sinnoh games...

    You are right in that 5th Gen only ended up being as short as 2nd Gen, and they had a follow up to their first pair that tied loose ends. XY lacking such a sequel or third version meant that Kalos had been more disappointing than the other regions when it came to unsolved mysteries, given it's all but confirmed that Sun & Moon will be 7th Gen and while 6th Gen had a remake pair (ORAS). 6th Gen is pretty much now only going to be easily remembered for its online interactivity rather than the story, likely because Kalos had a huge lack of characters with significant development. The rivals are often very forgettable among most of the Pokemon veterans, the Gym Leaders barring Korrina do nothing than just hand you a badge, and Diantha having less appearances than other champions in the lead-up to the final battle makes her the least developed of all the champions.

    When XY were first released, I did like Kalos as a resign in terms of design, but now with the fact it'll be the first region to get no follow-up game of any sorts, it's now remembered as the most disappointing region ever, and will now likely be ranked lower than it used to be on my fave regions list.
     
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    TCB

    Tranquilo.
    565
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    14
    Years
  • I'll echo what a couple of you said here and say that yeah this Gen feels shorter more of less because we were all expecting a bonafide follow up to the original Kalos adventures that were not going to get this Gen. To be fair though, anything to mix it up would be great, yeah. B2W2 broke the trend, Sun and Moon could do the same.
     
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    XY lacking such a sequel or third version meant that Kalos had been more disappointing than the other regions when it came to unsolved mysteries, given it's all but confirmed that Sun & Moon will be 7th Gen and while 6th Gen had a remake pair (ORAS). 6th Gen is pretty much now only going to be easily remembered for its online interactivity rather than the story, likely because Kalos had a huge lack of characters with significant development. The rivals are often very forgettable among most of the Pokemon veterans, the Gym Leaders barring Korrina do nothing than just hand you a badge, and Diantha having less appearances than other champions in the lead-up to the final battle makes her the least developed of all the champions.

    When XY were first released, I did like Kalos as a resign in terms of design, but now with the fact it'll be the first region to get no follow-up game of any sorts, it's now remembered as the most disappointing region ever, and will now likely be ranked lower than it used to be on my fave regions list.

    In retrospect, Gen 6 feels like it was nothing more than a test run for the new graphics and features, with the characters and setting being an afterthought. I still think that GF may have been planning a Kalos follow-up at one time and scrapped it at the last minute for Gen 7 because of the 20th Anniversary (hence the lack of games in 2015), if only because I don't want to believe that GF was so careless as to purposely leave XY so unpolished without any intention of a third version or sequel.

    No question that Kalos and its characters will very quickly be forgotten, if they haven't already. I think even in its own generation, Kalos was already somewhat overshadowed by Hoenn and even Kanto, to a lesser extent (even the new Pokémon, themselves, seemed outnumbered and overshadowed by all of the Megas given to older Pokémon), which makes you wonder why GF didn't just make ORAS and a RBY remake instead of XY if they weren't going to put any effort into creating and promoting a new region. If Gen 6 really wasn't going to be anything more than a test run for the 3DS, that's what I would've done.

    All I can hope now is that GF doesn't repeat the same mistakes it made with XY in Sun/Moon. This is supposed to be the big 20th Anniversary release, so it needs to be a highly-polished, top-notch game that leaves the fans in shock and awe.
     
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  • It also doesn't help that 1st and 3rd Generation occupied most of the Megas. That was definitely why I think ORAS was even more better than XY as far as this generation was to be concerned.

    it would've been great for my section too if we got another Kalos game :(

    You better make Sun and Moon really good then, Game Freak.

    *inb4 XY and ORAS merge into new 6th Gen forum*

    But yes, Game Freak. Make sure you have put all the effort we want because we want to celebrate the 20th anniversary on a high note for sure.
     
    Last edited:
    895
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    It also doesn't help that 1st and 3rd Generation occupied most of the Megas. That was definitely why I think ORAS was even more better than XY as far as this generation was to be concerned.

    I know. Even in their very own games, the Kalos starters were completely overshadowed by the Kanto starters and their shiny new Megas. In retrospect, it feels like GF really wanted to make a RBY remake, but because they didn't want to release two remakes in one gen, they just shoehorned Gen 1/Kanto stuff into Kalos, which arguably robbed the region of its identity.
     

    Z25

    Team Player
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    Not at all, I figured we weren't getting, Z but a game that connects the plots of ORAS and XY, which still seems likely.
     
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    In all honesty, I wouldn't completely rule out Z ever happening, or simply these games being heavily linked to Kalos directly, as such, being in the same generation. Of course, it is incredibly likely that this is gen 7, and I also think it is, but I seriously don't think it is over for the Kalos story arch; especially considering how it is at the moment; half done.

    Overall, my disappointment in no Z all depends on the nature of these games. Do they link in with the Kalos story arch? Then no, I wouldn't be disappointed at all. But if they just completely abandon what they've set up here? Then I will be underwhelmed by gen 6 as a whole.
     
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  • Tbh, I was really surprised with these news. I didn't really like the idea of moving on to a new region,since Zygarde's story is YET to be explained, and many things from 6th Gen needs to be solved. They can't just say "Well, fuck Zygarde, fuck it's concepts, and fuck the entirety of 6th Gen as a whole." We did a TERRIBLE job on this Generation, and we just want to skip already into 7th Gen, forgetting ALL the nightmares that was 6th Gen WITHOUT ever trying to improve on it's mistakes." I can't see Zygarde's forms only anime-exclusive along with Ash-Greninja. Why show Zygarde's forms in the first place if we don't know HOW they work in the main games, and we STILL don't know how Zygarde takes care of the magical deer and killer bird in it's Perfect form. Zygarde is a very complex legendary that it's crazy to just leave it alone as one of the worst legendaries without a proper plot excluding the anime. And why hype Ash's starter so much from the anime than other times that while the form itself won't be in the games, because it's ASH-GRENINJA, the concept itself I can probably see making it's way into Sun and Moon

    But now, I'm feeling optimistic about these games, and I hope they are truly the best main games ever created. I truly feel they are the gold and silver of 6th Gen, mainly because of the colors in sun and moon are the exact same colors as gold and silver's colors were. They can TRULY reflect the work Iwata did for Gold and Silver back then, as he was the only man who made it possible to go back to Kanto in the games. I can see why many people like HG/SS. And since 6th Gen reflects SO much on 1st Gen, and even though it's lacking a good story like 5th Gen successfully succeeded in, 6th Gen still remains to be my favorite Gen, and I would LOVE for it to be explored ever more. One thing to note is that Mega Evolution in general has a very cosmic theme, with all these meteorites and seemingly relate to the Anistar city sundial in a unique way, though we don't exactly know how. The map description of Anistar city states: "Some say the enigmatic device used as a sundial came from outer space."

    In the Japanese logos for sun and moon, you could see a Poke ball in a form of a meteor, asteroid or comet. Could this mean this new region can have a Moondial, or the Southern part of Kalos will have a Moondial, and most importantly, will we go ever go to space for the VERY FIRST TIME to conclude the history of Mega evolution? A Hex Maniac in Anistar mentions that THERE ARE MOONDIALS TOO.

    (You can correct me on this part) but looking at the chest mouth of Perfect Zygarde, it also has a orange and cyan/light blue hexagon, which correlates to the color logo of Sun and Moon. I'm not sure if that is purely an aesthetic design from transitioning from blue to red, but wouldn't it be interesting if Zygarde was the master of not only two legends, but two MORE legends who are sun and moon focused? Both the Zygarde cores in the anime have been known to receive energy from the sun. Though it is unsure if they also do this from the moon, and nothing relates to the white hexagon in the chest yet, but it is sort of a neat fact.

    Also in the Japanese logos, there is a light blue crystal in Sun, and an orange crystal in Moon. They have done this in the X/Y and OR/AS titles with the Mega evolution symbol and the Alpha/Omega symbol, which are the red and blue orbs for Primal Reversion. What could this be? Will this only pertain to legendaries, or will this be a new mechanic, like ME? Can this relate to the synchro concept demonstrated by Ash-Greninja in the anime? Interesting, indeed.

    There is a lot of conjectural evidence showing we are not done in Kalos, like a literal train station in Coumarine that DOESN'T take you anywhere, as well as another train track in Kiloude Station.

    I know there are people that don't like 6th Gen, they can hate it all they want to, they can hate Zygarde all they want but not EVERYONE hates the Gen. Some people, including myself, really like 6th Gen and really want to see it get expand.I still believe a Southern Kalos is still very possible.. and my attitude towards that has still not changed.. that "lexagone" concept could very well be in place, and it would make perfect sense for Zygarde to represent it's region like a monarchial role

    During its history, France has experienced a lot of different names. Examples: "The country of Molière", "The homeland of human rights" or "The eldest daughter of the Church". All these have particular reference to history. But the most often used as a synonym name of France is still "hex". Where does it come from? With Cartesian imagination, looking at the map of France, one can see 6 projecting points. It is from there that use comes fairly old, as the metropolitan France resembles a geometric figure, a hexagon. However, before the appearance of anti-patriotic song Renaud: "Hexagon", there were only a few political parties and institutions who used the hexagonal logo representing the shape of France. Today, the French Republic is often called this way by all people, be it: the hexagon, hexagonal or other France. But, this is only valid if one takes France within the meaning metropolis, because we must not forget that it also has a large number of remote and widely scattered territories worldwide (Guadeloupe, West Indies, etc.)

    The Sun and the Moon are the alchemical symbols for the gold and silver", so yeah, I expect a two-region game, (Spain,Hawaii,Singapore?) + France. That'd also explain why they needed more time for the development.

    The Couriway town's map description states "The railway brings people from great distances to see the huge, majestic falls." And the town itself is "A town connecting differences." So I can really see the connection with Kalos and the other region possible, knowing that nobody uses that train track,and Kalos had been at war with neighboring regions

    So basically making it both the X/Y sequels as well as a new gen. New region & new Pokémon, but Team Flare returns as the villainous team & Kalos is available in the post-game, with the new region being inspired by Spain(or something else) & accessible via the train in Couriway Town. Zygarde would also be a huge focus in the plot, & that could explain the XY&Z anime.
     
    1,089
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    • Seen Jun 11, 2019
    Tbh, I was really surprised with these news. I didn't really like the idea of moving on to a new region,since Zygarde's story is YET to be explained, and many things from 6th Gen needs to be solved. They can't just say "Well, **** Zygarde, **** it's concepts, and **** the entirety of 6th Gen as a whole." We did a TERRIBLE job on this Generation, and we just want to skip already into 7th Gen, forgetting ALL the nightmares that was 6th Gen WITHOUT ever trying to improve on it's mistakes." I can't see Zygarde's forms only anime-exclusive along with Ash-Greninja. Why show Zygarde's forms in the first place if we don't know HOW they work in the main games, and we STILL don't know how Zygarde takes care of the magical deer and killer bird in it's Perfect form. Zygarde is a very complex legendary that it's crazy to just leave it alone as one of the worst legendaries without a proper plot excluding the anime. And why hype Ash's starter so much from the anime than other times that while the form itself won't be in the games, because it's ASH-GRENINJA, the concept itself I can probably see making it's way into Sun and Moon

    But now, I'm feeling optimistic about these games, and I hope they are truly the best main games ever created. I truly feel they are the gold and silver of 6th Gen, mainly because of the colors in sun and moon are the exact same colors as gold and silver's colors were. They can TRULY reflect the work Iwata did for Gold and Silver back then, as he was the only man who made it possible to go back to Kanto in the games. I can see why many people like HG/SS. And since 6th Gen reflects SO much on 1st Gen, and even though it's lacking a good story like 5th Gen successfully succeeded in, 6th Gen still remains to be my favorite Gen, and I would LOVE for it to be explored ever more. One thing to note is that Mega Evolution in general has a very cosmic theme, with all these meteorites and seemingly relate to the Anistar city sundial in a unique way, though we don't exactly know how. The map description of Anistar city states: "Some say the enigmatic device used as a sundial came from outer space."

    In the Japanese logos for sun and moon, you could see a Poke ball in a form of a meteor, asteroid or comet. Could this mean this new region can have a Moondial, or the Southern part of Kalos will have a Moondial, and most importantly, will we go ever go to space for the VERY FIRST TIME to conclude the history of Mega evolution? A Hex Maniac in Anistar mentions that THERE ARE MOONDIALS TOO.

    (You can correct me on this part) but looking at the chest mouth of Perfect Zygarde, it also has a orange and cyan/light blue hexagon, which correlates to the color logo of Sun and Moon. I'm not sure if that is purely an aesthetic design from transitioning from blue to red, but wouldn't it be interesting if Zygarde was the master of not only two legends, but two MORE legends who are sun and moon focused? Both the Zygarde cores in the anime have been known to receive energy from the sun. Though it is unsure if they also do this from the moon, and nothing relates to the white hexagon in the chest yet, but it is sort of a neat fact.

    Also in the Japanese logos, there is a light blue crystal in Sun, and an orange crystal in Moon. They have done this in the X/Y and OR/AS titles with the Mega evolution symbol and the Alpha/Omega symbol, which are the red and blue orbs for Primal Reversion. What could this be? Will this only pertain to legendaries, or will this be a new mechanic, like ME? Can this relate to the synchro concept demonstrated by Ash-Greninja in the anime? Interesting, indeed.

    There is a lot of conjectural evidence showing we are not done in Kalos, like a literal train station in Coumarine that DOESN'T take you anywhere, as well as another train track in Kiloude Station.

    I know there are people that don't like 6th Gen, they can hate it all they want to, they can hate Zygarde all they want but not EVERYONE hates the Gen. Some people, including myself, really like 6th Gen and really want to see it get expand.I still believe a Southern Kalos is still very possible.. and my attitude towards that has still not changed.. that "lexagone" concept could very well be in place, and it would make perfect sense for Zygarde to represent it's region like a monarchial role

    During its history, France has experienced a lot of different names. Examples: "The country of Molière", "The homeland of human rights" or "The eldest daughter of the Church". All these have particular reference to history. But the most often used as a synonym name of France is still "hex". Where does it come from? With Cartesian imagination, looking at the map of France, one can see 6 projecting points. It is from there that use comes fairly old, as the metropolitan France resembles a geometric figure, a hexagon. However, before the appearance of anti-patriotic song Renaud: "Hexagon", there were only a few political parties and institutions who used the hexagonal logo representing the shape of France. Today, the French Republic is often called this way by all people, be it: the hexagon, hexagonal or other France. But, this is only valid if one takes France within the meaning metropolis, because we must not forget that it also has a large number of remote and widely scattered territories worldwide (Guadeloupe, West Indies, etc.)

    The Sun and the Moon are the alchemical symbols for the gold and silver", so yeah, I expect a two-region game, (Spain,Hawaii,Singapore?) + France. That'd also explain why they needed more time for the development.

    The Couriway town's map description states "The railway brings people from great distances to see the huge, majestic falls." And the town itself is "A town connecting differences." So I can really see the connection with Kalos and the other region possible, knowing that nobody uses that train track,and Kalos had been at war with neighboring regions

    So basically making it both the X/Y sequels as well as a new gen. New region & new Pokémon, but Team Flare returns as the villainous team & Kalos is available in the post-game, with the new region being inspired by Spain(or something else) & accessible via the train in Couriway Town. Zygarde would also be a huge focus in the plot, & that could explain the XY&Z anime.

    THIS. Thankyou so much ! Finally someone not bashing poor gen 6 :)
     

    pkmin3033

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    (You can correct me on this part) but looking at the chest mouth of Perfect Zygarde, it also has a orange and cyan/light blue hexagon, which correlates to the color logo of Sun and Moon. I'm not sure if that is purely an aesthetic design from transitioning from blue to red, but wouldn't it be interesting if Zygarde was the master of not only two legends, but two MORE legends who are sun and moon focused? Both the Zygarde cores in the anime have been known to receive energy from the sun. Though it is unsure if they also do this from the moon, and nothing relates to the white hexagon in the chest yet, but it is sort of a neat fact.
    Good spot. It's interesting that you bring that up, as the two Zygarde in XYZ have different coloured cores too - one red, one blue. Of course, red and blue relates more to Xerneas and Yveltal rather than Sun and Moon, since the blue is a slightly darker shade and it's clearly red and not orange, but the fact that Perfect Zygarde has four distinct colours alongside the white (which 50% Zygarde has anyway; that seems to be its default hexagon colour of sorts alongside all the black and green) suggests it might relate to four Legendaries instead of two...and this wouldn't be the first time we've had one Pokemon ruling over two sets of Legendaries either. I like this idea.

    The only problem I can see is that the XYZ anime is going to have finished airing before Sun and Moon come out and, if they're adapting the story of Sun and Moon in XYZ, something doesn't add up there...we'd know the story of the games before they're even out. But then, there is every possibility it could end inconclusively or differently - probably in a manner similar to the games - and be revisited in the anime at the same time as Sun and Moon are released as Ash explores the new region. They'd tie it all up somehow.
     
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    X&Y were disappointing, OR&AS were great. So i am happy there won't be a Z.

    XY were dissapointing? So were Diamond and Pearl, and Platinum fixed it and turned out to be a wonderful game. It's comfortable to remember XY as a lousy gen when it didn't even have a chance to redeem its self.
     
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