We've done this too many times now

[Nah]

#neveragain shall the children of America know fear. To those who still cling to their guns, rest easy since all of your enemies only exists in your head.

I'd prefer it if we stuck to using actual arguments and not using stuff like this, please.

Guns aren't for killing people, it's not why we have guns.

That's....kinda what they are for though?

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

That's....kinda what they are for though?

Uhhh, no. This would be implying every and all gun owner criminal or law abiding intends to use their firearm to commit crimes or murder. Law abiding citizens never wanna pull a gun on another human unless they're forced to protect themselves or their family. At this point it's either you or them. Not much the law can do if someone's about to harm you or your family if you'd were to use a firearm for protection. Many law abiding citizens buy firearms for hunting or shooting at the range in general. "I'm gonna kill people" doesn't cross their minds. Shooting an animal is different than shooting a human, ALOT different. Criminals on the other hand.. They could care less about catching a felony. This is why cops don't give a shit because the people that live this lifestyle don't give a shit so why should the police or even us? Innocent people that grow up in these areas see people get smoked all the time and if they "snitch" they know they got a price on their head. It's why people don't dial 911 in the hood. If a murder happens in the ghetto of a major city, most cops don't bother, why? They're own lives are at risk because these gang bangers shoot coppers down because they don't value life. Only care about drugs, money, and turf and the streets are a war zone due to it. Criminals get a gun to commit crimes law abiding citizens don't. I can see why you'd think they're used for killing, but that's not exactly the case.

 

[Gigadweeb]

#neveragain shall the children of America know fear. To those who still cling to their guns, rest easy since all of your enemies only exists in your head.

yeah no, that's incredibly ignorant of workers' struggle all around the world and shows your privilege.

 

[BronzeHeart92]

yeah no, that's incredibly ignorant of workers' struggle all around the world and shows your privilege.

I'm certainly don't have any privileges. Well, aside from having access to net as there are still people out there who don't have access at all... But that's irrelevant. The point is, how can you Americans sleep at night knowing that the next day might be your last? Yeah, it's true that being non-american myself, the very fact that someone might sleep with an actual working gun at their side would seem very alien to me. When it comes down to it, most people would be quite decent folk indeed and that truly evil people doesn't exist anywhere.

 

[Vragon2.0]

I'm certainly don't have any privileges. Well, aside from having access to net as there are still people out there who don't have access at all... But that's irrelevant. The point is, how can you Americans sleep at night knowing that the next day might be your last? Yeah, it's true that being non-american myself, the very fact that someone might sleep with an actual working gun at their side would seem very alien to me. When it comes down to it, most people would be quite decent folk indeed and that truly evil people doesn't exist anywhere.

Oh f*** off with that condescending attitude. I'm sorry, but using "I don't understand" as an excuse to bolster a point genuinely aggrivates me. There is a big cultural difference between the US and Europe, especially were you're from I'm sure. In the US, there are many diverse groups of people with their own perspectives, views, ideals, cultures, history and opinion. Like when you have such a diverse nation you should expect disagreements on the matter.

Others can show statistics better than I can so I won't debate that, however it's genuinely getting annoying how often you're saying "I don't understand" and yet seem to have no inkling to actually wanting to understand it. Not to mention the generalization of your statement "How can Americans sleep at night knowing it might be their last" as if every American has that thought when they go to bed at night. Look I'm not trying to rant on you, but honestly my advice is talk about it. Learn why it would seem that way and talk with multiple peeps "in that area" about it.

It doesn't help the victims or anyone by not filling yourself in on the matter and even getting a better perspective. Frankly, I understand emotions are high, which is why discussions like these need to happen to find a viable solution or reason why they occur. I'm against jumping due to a # and painting your opponents as against a notion because they have a different opinion.

Solutions can be found by conversing and understanding each other's perspective, something severely lacking nowadays in the world. Pardon if I came off as harsh.

Also, I believe everyone has some form of privilege. Whether object wise or mentality wise, everyone has benefits to the life they've lived. Plus, you just said that you don't have to worry about the gun bit in your place, so if we go with your point that American gun violence is as bad as you say then that would be a privilege, wouldn't it.

yeah no, that's incredibly ignorant of workers' struggle all around the world and shows your privilege.

Care to explain how that links to worker's struggles all around the world? I get it was misguided statement, but that is kinda pushing it. Also, no it doesn't show privilege it was a misguided statement he made. Unless you can show a linking of the two then I'm sorry, but please.

 

[BronzeHeart92]

Well, I do want to understand at least something. And just to be clear, it's not the Americans I hate, it's the easy availabilty of guns that 2nd Amendment allows. America definitely is a diverse country. And this coming from someone who has never set foot into USA in first place. And might never will until the Amendment is repealed.

 

[Vragon2.0]

I don't have a problem with you being against the notion of the 2nd amendment. That's your thoughts and convictions and I'm sure something like that wouldn't be needed in your culture. I'm fine talking with peeps on matters and being friends with many an opinion person. I can get along with peeps that I disagree with, cause all in all we have our own thoughts and that's fair.

So yeah, I don't dislike you for having that opinion. I can respect that you hold those values and such. I'm glad you do have some interest in understanding and frankly I'd like to make a case of understanding other people's sides as well. There's a lot I hate in the world too, so it wouldn't be fair of me to get on your case for having an opinion different from mine in that matter.

Frankly, this is a debate place where opinions are thrown and stuff is brought, but at the end of the day, I'm sure both of us can leave respecting each other. I wish you well.

 

[BronzeHeart92]

Alrighty. It's just I'm not usually very political like this. But after Las Vegas and especially Parkland, I came to saw USA's 2nd Amendment that needs to be repealed at all costs. And I certainly am not alone in this.

 

[LDSman]

Alrighty. It's just I'm not usually very political like this. But after Las Vegas and especially Parkland, I came to saw USA's 2nd Amendment that needs to be repealed at all costs. And I certainly am not alone in this.

I'm certainly more concerned when gun control fanatics like yourself say things like "repealed at all costs".
Tell me, do you support the other gun control fanatics who state things like "kill all gun owners" or "kill the NRA members"?

More people die from medical malpractice in hospitals than gun homicides in the US.

 

[BronzeHeart92]

I'm certainly more concerned when gun control fanatics like yourself say things like "repealed at all costs".
Tell me, do you support the other gun control fanatics who state things like "kill all gun owners" or "kill the NRA members"?

More people die from medical malpractice in hospitals than gun homicides in the US.

Well, not exactly. I definitely would not support killing anyone, gun owner or not. Again, I don't hate americans, just that Amendment. And even that came after the Las Vegas incident and the like. So, it's hardly correct to refer to me as a fanatic thank you very much. Though I do admit that many of my earlier posts on subject were influenced by my emotions and not reason.

 

[LDSman]

Well, not exactly. I definitely would not support killing anyone, gun owner or not. Again, I don't hate americans, just that Amendment. And even that came after the Las Vegas incident and the like. So, it's hardly correct to refer to me as a fanatic thank you very much. Though I do admit that many of my earlier posts on subject were influenced by my emotions and not reason. It's very delicate trying to balance the two.

Most Americans will not support a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. You know the phrase "you can have my gun when you pry it from my dead hand"? That is most gun owners. If you somehow got a repeal, how do you get the firearms from the public? Various states have tried requiring registration or surrender of certain firearms and had horrible compliance rates.

Information has been provided that supports gun ownership for a number of reasons. You refuse to accept those reasons as valid. Seems fanatical to me.

Now it's your move. How far will you go to remove guns from the currently law abiding?

 

[BronzeHeart92]

Most Americans will not support a repeal of the 2nd Amendment. You know the phrase "you can have my gun when you pry it from my dead hand"? That is most gun owners. If you somehow got a repeal, how do you get the firearms from the public? Various states have tried requiring registration or surrender of certain firearms and had horrible compliance rates.

Information has been provided that supports gun ownership for a number of reasons. You refuse to accept those reasons as valid. Seems fanatical to me.

Now it's your move. How far will you go to remove guns from the currently law abiding?

Correction: Remove guns from the law abiding AND the criminals. Well, that's your problem to handle. Perhaps by doing what Australia did back then. Compensate them handsomely. I know, I'm parroting words that holds no meaning to you. But then again, so do you. So, who's the real fanatic here? Perhaps we both are in which case we need to respect the opinions of each other. Yeah, you did make some ok points back there. But that doesn't mean that my points are not equally valid either. In fact, go ahead and search both #repealthe2nd and #neveragain on Twitter if you want. You'll see just how affected they really are.

 

[LDSman]

Correction: Remove guns from the law abiding AND the criminals.

you seem to be having trouble understanding that criminals aren't going to follow the law. They're known for that. They build zip guns, create illegal firearm factories, steal guns from other people, bribe people with legal guns to help them acquire guns.

Well, that's your problem to handle.

You're the one advocating for the repeal of the 2nd. It's your problem to solve.

Perhaps by doing what Australia did back then.

1/3rd compliance rate. Not even going to get that in the US.

Compensate them handsomely.

. Won't work. Far too many guns for the govt to afford to pay the actual market price and when the owners refuse to sell?

I know, I'm parroting words that holds no meaning to you. But then again, so do you. So, who's the real fanatic here?

Unlike you, I understand what you are saying and what I am saying. I think for myself and weigh cost/benefit of gun ownership. I educated myself before taking a stance that is not based on an emotional reaction to events. I disagree wholeheartedly with your interpretation of things and the "solution" you want.
If you disarm the law abiding, then the criminals will still continue to do what they want, only their victims pool will be larger.
Look up kinnesaw, GA and Morton's Grove Illinois. Morton's Grove banned handguns and crime rates climbed. Kinnesaw passed a law requiring that homeowners own a gun (not enforced) and crime dropped. Both cities were a similar size and demographics.

 

[Arsenic]

#neveragain shall the children of America know fear. To those who still cling to their guns, rest easy since all of your enemies only exists in your head.

See, crazy exists on both sides! Thanks for the pristine example of "Everyone who owns a gun is a nutball who is less of a human than me" logic!

I still stick by my proposed ideas. Having Semis as a Class 3 sans payment is reasonable, doesn't infringe on rights, and helps keep people who shouldn't buy from buying!

 

[LDSman]

Perhaps we both are in which case we need to respect the opinions of each other.

pass. I don't respect the opinion of the someone who is the equivalent of a flat earther or antivaxxer. .

Yeah, you did make some ok points back there. But that doesn't mean that my points are not equally valid either.

. I kind of think it does.

In fact, go ahead and search both #repealthe2nd and #neveragain on Twitter if you want. You'll see just how affected they really are.

Ooh, Twitter. A site renowned for articulate people who are completely honest.

 

[BronzeHeart92]

pass. I don't respect the opinion of the someone who is the equivalent of a flat earther or antivaxxer. .

. I kind of think it does.

Ooh, Twitter. A site renowned for articulate people who are completely honest.

Do I detect sarcasm from you? Don't like Twitter? Well, feel free to not use it then. However, it's very clear that you apparently despise these liberal snowflakes. In fact, it seems like you treat me as a snowflake too. Yep, it seems you really like conspiracies alright. Do you believe in chemtrails? Do you believe there's a Clinton/Rothschild/Soros cabal out there to get you and take away all of your freedoms? For the record, that's all hogwash really. But then again, nothing can ever convince you...

 

[LDSman]

Do I detect sarcasm from you? Don't like Twitter?

. Oh good, I don't have to explain sarcasm to you.

Well, feel free to not use it then.

way ahead of you there.

However, it's very clear that you apparently despise these liberal snowflakes.

. I'd have to care about them to despise them. I do pity them. They desperately want reality to conform to their wishes and can't seem to handle it when it doesn't.

In fact, it seems like you treat me as a snowflake too.

. You hit most of the gun control snowflake points. But you do live in Finland. I shouldn't expect someone in a foreign country to be educated on the complexities of American gun ownership and how the gun control groups lie to people.

Yep, it seems you really like conspiracies alright. Do you believe in chemtrails?

Whenever have I expressed a belief in conspiracies? Chemtrail idiots are hilarious.

Do you believe there's a Clinton/Rothschild/Soros cabal out there to get you and take away all of your freedoms? For the record, that's all hogwash really. But then again, nothing can ever convince you...

Out to get me specifically? No. Are a group of people trying to restrict rights? Heck, they aren't even being secretive about it. Ban the 2nd Amendment, ban hate speech, change religious beliefs through laws, etc. liberals seem to think they know what is best for everyone else.

 

[Gigadweeb]

I'm certainly don't have any privileges. Well, aside from having access to net as there are still people out there who don't have access at all... But that's irrelevant. The point is, how can you Americans sleep at night knowing that the next day might be your last? Yeah, it's true that being non-american myself, the very fact that someone might sleep with an actual working gun at their side would seem very alien to me. When it comes down to it, most people would be quite decent folk indeed and that truly evil people doesn't exist anywhere.

>I'm certainly don't have any privileges. Well, aside from having access to net as there are still people out there who don't have access at all... But that's irrelevant.

1. it's not irrelevant
2. I somehow doubt that

>The point is, how can you Americans sleep at night knowing that the next day might be your last? Yeah, it's true that being non-american myself, the very fact that someone might sleep with an actual working gun at their side would seem very alien to me.

I'm not even American. Also, literally any day could be your last. More people die from car crashes, lack of treatment from medical professionals in the US (thanks, privatisation!), etcetera etcetera. Gun violence in the US is a very small minority compared to its population overall.

Care to explain how that links to worker's struggles all around the world? I get it was misguided statement, but that is kinda pushing it. Also, no it doesn't show privilege it was a misguided statement he made. Unless you can show a linking of the two then I'm sorry, but please.

1. Sure. Here's some examples of where weapons helped liberate the oppressed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

violence is very much an important part of class struggle. imagine trying to defeat ethnonationalists and fascists with kind words.

2. it really does. once again, violence is an important part of revolutionary struggle, and being ignorant of that shows privilege, where you're isolated from the conditions minorities face, whether intentional or not.

Do I detect sarcasm from you? Don't like Twitter? Well, feel free to not use it then. However, it's very clear that you apparently despise these liberal snowflakes. In fact, it seems like you treat me as a snowflake too. Yep, it seems you really like conspiracies alright. Do you believe in chemtrails? Do you believe there's a Clinton/Rothschild/Soros cabal out there to get you and take away all of your freedoms? For the record, that's all hogwash really. But then again, nothing can ever convince you...

not every gun owner is reactionary, you know.

 

[Vragon2.0]

1. Sure. Here's some examples of where weapons helped liberate the oppressed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

violence is very much an important part of class struggle. imagine trying to defeat ethnonationalists and fascists with kind words.

2. it really does. once again, violence is an important part of revolutionary struggle, and being ignorant of that shows privilege, where you're isolated from the conditions minorities face, whether intentional or not.

You said, "workers struggles" not "class or overthrowing", but I can deal with that.

I'm well aware of how revolutions occur and what goes into doing them, doesn't mean I have to agree on many of their methods. I disagree with what you say in regards to the whole "privilege" bit. I don't have to be in a revolution to know how one works or the effects of one. It's important to get many sides to an argument or problem and come up with a solution with conversing. People differ in many ways and the morality of many things are debated on by peeps. I don't think it's exactly fair to bring up "privilege" when if he gives good points then it doesn't matter where he comes from in that regard. Albeit he didn't in my opinion, but privilege doesn't mean you don't know what to talk about nor does it exclude you for talking about things that do affect you or whatnot. I can get inexperience though in which case brushing up on stuff would help.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Do I detect sarcasm from you? Don't like Twitter? Well, feel free to not use it then. However, it's very clear that you apparently despise these liberal snowflakes. In fact, it seems like you treat me as a snowflake too. Yep, it seems you really like conspiracies alright. Do you believe in chemtrails? Do you believe there's a Clinton/Rothschild/Soros cabal out there to get you and take away all of your freedoms? For the record, that's all hogwash really. But then again, nothing can ever convince you...

Me personally, I don't like social media in general. Very rarely even use FB. "I'm popular on social media therefore I'm an important person" when in reality they got low confidence and they're insecure unless they're famous which people will follow regardless. Social media is an ego booster for lots and that's the agenda. Can't fathom how many times I've saw fake news being spewed all over social media. I don't do something because everyone else does it, I'm not a follower or "sheep".

Don't even get me started on the Clintons.. Everyone knows they got blood on their hands and George Soros is funding a ridiculous amount to push this liberal agenda. Anyone with half a brain can see it. But is the liberal media not trying to push for gun control which means infringing our rights?
They're even protesting for gun rights which doesn't surprise me.. These liberal snowflakes protest and throw a fit when they don't get their way. I pity them like LDSman. They're acting like immature children because they're unable to lead so they follow. Lot's are the same people that have their hands out expecting free shit because they think society owes them.
People got jobs and families and themselves to support instead of protesting unlike these snowflakes that cause havoc for others as well because they didn't get their way. This in itself is fucked up. It's getting ridiculous is what I'm trying to say. The media has America and lots of the world so divided and that give them power but you can be oblivious all you want.
It all starts with a majority of the population having a voice and saying "no we longer want this system". America's system is fucked and HAS BEEN FUCKED!!
Either way, war is inevitable this is what lots don't understand.