Why did they change everything up so much?

[Rivvon]

I'm pretty sure anyone trying to hatch shiny Pokemon with the Masuda method would be using the hatching O power, unless of course they find it fun to spend twice as long riding around on the bike. I forget what other O powers there were but some were useful.

As you said, the Hatching O-Power was one of the most helpful things and I used it very, very frequently. Others, like the Bargain O-Power, I used a lot, too. Since I did so much breeding I was always running low on funds so the Bargain O-Power helped when I needed to buy stuff to catch or chain for wild Pokémon.

But O-Powers have actually been in the games since gen 5--they were included in the Entralink, but not a lot of people made use of it, so they were a lot more low-key back then. Because of that, I have hope that, even though they haven't been mentioned as returning just yet, there's a chance that they're still in SM.

 

[Illusionss]

Nah, but I can disagree with your opinion though. :o Isn't that the beauty of discussion?

Of course, I get many people will disagree with my opinion, but you're saying you don't know what response I'm looking for, no specific response in particular.

I guess that explains it. I don't really use the Masuda method and I don't concern myself much with it; I just hatch eggs the old fashioned way with Flame Body.

Of course, I get that many people will disagree with my opinion. But you're saying that you're unsure of what response I'm looking for, no specific response in particular.

Masuda method paired with hatching O power and flame body is a very fast and effective way of hatching high IV shiny Pokemon.

 

[tokyodrift]

I think it's a great thing. To break the mold of the same formula to keep the game from getting stale and repetitive. They included things to help compensate for the removal of certain things.

 

[Vidxad]

If that was the case shouldn't they change Pokeballs to nets so it would be more fitting to Alola? Lol. Gyms could fit into anything, they could've just had them Hawaiian looking. Besides, it'll be around 2018 before a new Pokemon game is released, by which time I may not want to play Pokemon games, or any games at all for that matter since I'm now into my 20's and now only enjoy a few games, so it's likely that I'll be pretty much done with games completely by the time the next Pokemon game rolls round. But that's my problem I guess, either way the fact that they're bringing gyms back for the next games and only changing things up this significantly may be only for this generation is irrelevant if we're in the Sun and Moon discussions tbh.



I don't see how that's not a fair comparison, both gyms and Pokeball's have been in the game from the very start, it would just be like them replacing Pokeball's with let's say Pokenet's (Lol). But actually catching Pokemon with different tools is arguably less game changing than removing gyms since it wouldn't change anything story-line wise and would be just an aesthetic change for the most part.



What's totem Pokemon, is that yet another different form?

It's just not the same thing. The pokeball is an iconic symbol for the pokemon franchise, not just in the games but in everything from the logo down to merchandise. They can't just up and change how the entire pokemon universe works, it wouldn't make sense. This does make sense. It's a different region with different rules. Collecting gym badges is just a set of challenges that puts you on a path to battling the strongest trainer in the region. Alola doesn't have gyms, they have trial captains who are basically gym leaders. I'm sure they hand out some kind of reward similar to a badge for overcoming the challenge as well. Once you've done all that, there's no doubt in my mind that you'll have a battle with whoever the strongest trainer is in the region while stopping the evil team and capturing a legendary pokemon along the way. It might sound radically different, but when you break it down the new system isn't a whole lot different than the gym systems in the old games. It's just got a fresh take on it.

 

[Illusionss]

It's just not the same thing. The pokeball is an iconic symbol for the pokemon franchise, not just in the games but in everything from the logo down to merchandise. They can't just up and change how the entire pokemon universe works, it wouldn't make sense. This does make sense. It's a different region with different rules. Collecting gym badges is just a set of challenges that puts you on a path to battling the strongest trainer in the region. Alola doesn't have gyms, they have trial captains who are basically gym leaders. I'm sure they hand out some kind of reward similar to a badge for overcoming the challenge as well. Once you've done all that, there's no doubt in my mind that you'll have a battle with whoever the strongest trainer is in the region while stopping the evil team and capturing a legendary pokemon along the way. It might sound radically different, but when you break it down the new system isn't a whole lot different than the gym systems in the old games. It's just got a fresh take on it.

You have a point about the image of the Pokeball, but if it's just a change for this one game then it wouldn't be any different to removing gyms, at this point it feels like a spin-off. If gyms apparently don't fit in with the Hawaiian theme, then surely Pokemon centres and Poke marts shouldn't fit in either?

 

[MKC]

A Change in the formula has been requested for quite some time, so GameFreak delivered and gave us a game that changes up the standard formula to give us a fun new experience in a completely new way. This change may not be something you personally wanted, but you can never keep everyone happy, plenty of us quite welcome these changes however.

Also criticizing the changes you don't know about for no reason seems a bit pointless, at the very least you should play the demo to get a taste of the new formula with the mini-trial and totem battle.

One of the things that made Pokemon fun for me was being able to just put in the game and play, now that'll be difficult without researching how everything works, just my opinion

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from just getting the game and playing like every other pokemon game. Did Gyms ever stop you from playing? no? Then island trials won't either, neither will Z moves or Alolan forms, unless seeing a White Vulpix instead of a red one makes you have to quit the game for some reason.

 

[Illusionss]

A Change in the formula has been requested for quite some time, so GameFreak delivered and gave us a game that changes up the standard formula to give us a fun new experience in a completely new way. This change may not be something you personally wanted, but you can never keep everyone happy, plenty of us quite welcome these changes however.

Also criticizing the changes you don't know about for no reason seems a bit pointless, at the very least you should play the demo to get a taste of the new formula with the mini-trial and totem battle.


There is absolutely nothing stopping you from just getting the game and playing like every other pokemon game. Did Gyms ever stop you from playing? no? Then island trials won't either, neither will Z moves or Alolan forms, unless seeing a White Vulpix instead of a red one makes you have to quit the game for some reason.

Let me post that quote so that you can read it again:
Originally Posted by Illusionss View Post
One of the things that made Pokemon fun for me was being able to just put in the game and play, now that'll be difficult without researching how everything works, just my opinion

When I have to spend ages looking up and learning how all the new features work, then that just ruins the game for me. Like I said the simple yet refreshing formula of all other Pokemon games, for me that's what makes the game so unique, each game would be so different to the others while still keeping the same concept of battling around 8 gyms then facing the Pokemon league. In my opinion they should have gave everyone what they wanted by keeping the same formula for handheld games for the players who enjoy the nostalgia feel (which will now be gone for the most part), and make a separate Pokemon game for the console where they can change everything up for people requesting a new system to it, especially with the Nintendo Switch right around the corner.

 

[Desert Stream~]

Hmm... What's pokemon? Ah yes, the series where you catch creatures in balls, and battle them. If you ask me, those are the core mechanics, and they haven't changed.

 

[Illusionss]

Hmm... What's pokemon? Ah yes, the series where you catch creatures in balls, and battle them. If you ask me, those are the core mechanics, and they haven't changed.

Because fighting gyms and battling the league clearly isn't Pokemon, must be Digimon I was thinking of. My bad, son.

 

[Lunar]

I'm personally really glad they changed things up, although I didn't dislike the Pokemon formula, it's nice to get a change. It'll be interesting to see how the league plays out though.

 

[MKC]

Let me post that quote so that you can read it again:
Originally Posted by Illusionss View Post
One of the things that made Pokemon fun for me was being able to just put in the game and play, now that'll be difficult without researching how everything works, just my opinion

When I have to spend ages looking up and learning how all the new features work, then that just ruins the game for me. Like I said the simple yet refreshing formula of all other Pokemon games, for me that's what makes the game so unique, each game would be so different to the others while still keeping the same concept of battling around 8 gyms then facing the Pokemon league. In my opinion they should have gave everyone what they wanted by keeping the same formula for handheld games for the players who enjoy the nostalgia feel (which will now be gone for the most part), and make a separate Pokemon game for the console where they can change everything up for people requesting a new system to it, especially with the Nintendo Switch right around the corner.

That still makes no sense, did you have to look up how to challenge gyms when you were a kid? no, right? Then why would you need to do with trials? They are part of the game, they are explained in game just like gyms were, and even if you don't read the in-game text they are intuitive and easy to guess. Remember this is a game for kids, if kids can understand so could you and everyone else.

Also this game is made to be as casual as ever for casual players and is simplified as much as possible, this time around even type effectiveness is shown in the battle, so I don't get where the problem is.

 

[Illusionss]

That still makes no sense, did you have to look up how to challenge gyms when you were a kid? no, right? Then why would you need to do with trials? They are part of the game, they are explained in game just like gyms were, and even if you don't read the in-game text they are intuitive and easy to guess. Remember this is a game for kids, if kids can understand so could you and everyone else.

Also this game is made to be as casual as ever for casual players and is simplified as much as possible, this time around even type effectiveness is shown in the battle, so I don't get where the problem is.

You're taking everything out of context. No I didn't have to look up how to battle gyms when I was a kid because it was a simple formula, which is what I liked about it. I never said I'd have to look up the challenges, it's the other stuff I'll likely have to look up with all the new forms and Z moves and all that jazz. It's really debatable whether or not this is a kids game, kids these days play Minecraft. Is yu-gi-oh a kids game as well when most of the in depth complications are confusing to most adults who play it? Bottom line is I had to look up most of the new features of X and Y because it doesn't go into depth about them in the game its self and there is way more new things in Sun and Moon than last gen. I just feel they've gone overkill with the cluster fuck of new features, less is more.

 

[MKC]

You're taking everything out of context. No I didn't have to look up how to battle gyms when I was a kid because it was a simple formula, which is what I liked about it. I never said I'd have to look up the challenges, it's the other stuff I'll likely have to look up with all the new forms and Z moves and all that jazz. It's really debatable whether or not this is a kids game, kids these days play Minecraft. Is yu-gi-oh a kids game as well when most of the in depth complications are confusing to most adults who play it? Bottom line is I had to look up most of the new features of X and Y because it doesn't go into depth about them in the game its self and there is way more new things in Sun and Moon than last gen. I just feel they've gone overkill with the cluster **** of new features, less is more.

I don't see how it is out of context as it is one of the things you complained about, gyms were a simple formula, and so are trials, trials are just a new simple formula, but the fact that they are new is what makes them a lot more exciting, just like we did 20 years ago we get to experience a new unique system instead of having the same thing we've had since the start, it's great to have some change every one in a while.
And you don't need to look up Alola forms or Z-moves either, seeing a White Vulpix is not gonna be different from seeing a red one, they will just be different types, and is not like it matters anyways since in SM the type effectiveness appears on screen so you don't even need to remember it's type.

This certainly a kids game, it's easy to understand with a simple and intuitive system just as it has always been, if anything this game is even more kid-friendly than previous ones, since stat changes and type match ups are directly shown to you instead of having to remember/looked them up. Plus pretty much everything in the menus now has a ? mark to give extra info/explain how it works, it just couldn't be easier.

It's their 20th anniversary so it makes sense they are going all out adding as many cool stuff as possible for this games to be as amazing and unique as possible, and I'm pretty sure they are doing a good job for most people, but as I said they can't please everyone, if you don't like the changes so be it, all the other games with the same formula still exist.

 

[Illusionss]

I don't see how it is out of context as it is one of the things you complained about, gyms were a simple formula, and so are trials, trials are just a new simple formula, but the fact that they are new is what makes them a lot more exciting, just like we did 20 years ago we get to experience a new unique system instead of having the same thing we've had since the start, it's great to have some change every one in a while.
And you don't need to look up Alola forms or Z-moves either, seeing a White Vulpix is not gonna be different from seeing a red one, they will just be different types, and is not like it matters anyways since in SM the type effectiveness appears on screen so you don't even need to remember it's type.

This certainly a kids game, it's easy to understand with a simple and intuitive system just as it has always been, if anything this game is even more kid-friendly than previous ones, since stat changes and type match ups are directly shown to you instead of having to remember/looked them up. Plus pretty much everything in the menus now has a ? mark to give extra info/explain how it works, it just couldn't be easier.

It's their 20th anniversary so it makes sense they are going all out adding as many cool stuff as possible for this games to be as amazing and unique as possible, and I'm pretty sure they are doing a good job for most people, but as I said they can't please everyone, if you don't like the changes so be it, all the other games with the same formula still exist.

I never complained about gyms or new challenges being complicated, I stated my opinion of that removing gyms is also removing a huge part of the nostalgia feel since it is changing the game so much.
I complained about the overkill of new features leading to complication.

So you're expecting kids to understand how IV's, EV's, natures work? Certain things are easy to understand, other things aren't, when they're making us get used to a certain system with one generation and then removing all of that and giving us completely different stuff, then it gets complicated.

It's their 20th anniversary, so they scrap the whole concept that got them so much success in the first place? If anything they should be adding even more features that give nostalgia feels, hell even X and Y had the Kanto starters that you got from the professor. You can't seriously be telling me getting rid of the older stuff and replacing it with a cluster fuck of power rangers-like shenanigans is an intelligent way of celebrating their 20th anniversary? I don't see the logic behind that, of course one or two new features would have been great, but to completely scrap and replace the usual formula is foolish in my opinion.

 

[Nah]

They haven't scraped the base concept at all tho, and there's a number of throwbacks and references to Gen 1 already

 

[Illusionss]

They haven't scraped the base concept at all tho, and there's a number of throwbacks and references to Gen 1 already

Getting rid of gyms and the league is taking a large portion of the concept away, references such as?

 

[MKC]

I never complained about gyms or new challenges being complicated, I stated my opinion of that removing gyms is also removing a huge part of the nostalgia feel since it is changing the game so much.
I complained about the overkill of new features leading to complication.

So you're expecting kids to understand how IV's, EV's, natures work? Certain things are easy to understand, other things aren't, when they're making us get used to a certain system with one generation and then removing all of that and giving us completely different stuff, then it gets complicated.

It's their 20th anniversary, so they scrap the whole concept that got them so much success in the first place? If anything they should be adding even more features that give nostalgia feels, hell even X and Y had the Kanto starters that you got from the professor. You can't seriously be telling me getting rid of the older stuff and replacing it with a cluster **** of power rangers-like shenanigans is an intelligent way of celebrating their 20th anniversary? I don't see the logic behind that, of course one or two new features would have been great, but to completely scrap and replace the usual formula is foolish in my opinion.

No, kids don't understand EVs, IVs, Natures etc. But they don't need to, the games are easy and none of those things will ever get in their way to enjoy the game. They are just there for competitive reasons, which are generally more targeted for the older players, but is not like it matters, they have nothing to do with SM anyways, they've pretty much always been there.

And how did they scrap the whole concept that made the game popular? did you play pokemon for the gyms? cause that's pretty much the only thing that's gone (and HMs, but everyone hates HMs anyways).
And is not like they are not adding stuff for the nostalgia, main character is from Kanto, Pokemon Snap mode, Rotom, Red, Blue, Oak, Cynthia, Wally, NPCs from Unova, islands based on the 4 original games, and there's probably a lot more nostalgia pandering in the main game. I don't know about you, but find all of that too be a lot more exciting than the same style pokemon league we have in every single game, plus is not like the league is entirely gone anyway, it's still a part of the game as it is being built during the events of the game.

 

[Mikewind]

GX made a theory that since the league is in there might be gyms as well. All around Alola there are these big empty spaces that could be where gyms are being built. Of course this is just theory so it could be wrong.
Edit: Here's the video

Spoiler:

https://youtu.be/zZqVPiY1yVk

 

[Illusionss]

No, kids don't understand EVs, IVs, Natures etc. But they don't need to, the games are easy and none of those things will ever get in their way to enjoy the game. They are just there for competitive reasons, which are generally more targeted for the older players, but is not like it matters, they have nothing to do with SM anyways, they've pretty much always been there.

And how did they scrap the whole concept that made the game popular? did you play pokemon for the gyms? cause that's pretty much the only thing that's gone (and HMs, but everyone hates HMs anyways).
And is not like they are not adding stuff for the nostalgia, main character is from Kanto, Pokemon Snap mode, Rotom, Red, Blue, Oak, Cynthia, Wally, NPCs from Unova, islands based on the 4 original games, and there's probably a lot more nostalgia pandering in the main game. I don't know about you, but find all of that too be a lot more exciting than the same style pokemon league we have in every single game, plus is not like the league is entirely gone anyway, it's still a part of the game as it is being built during the events of the game.

Either way they are part of the game and it is not strictly a kids game, it is aimed at all ages. I'd be willing to bet there's way more adults who play Pokemon than kids, a large portion of Pokemon players are people who grew up in the 90's.

Yes I did play for the gyms and league actually, I found it fun building up my team and having a different Pokemon to counter each gym/elite 4 member. The whole purpose of the other games was to collect all the gym badges and fight the elite 4, whilst also fighting the villains along the way, so if you don't see how removing gyms and the league is drastically changing the formula then I don't know, mate.

If I wanted to play Pokemon snap, I'd dig out my n64 and play Pokemon snap, mini games like this have very little to do with the gameplay of the story its self. Apart from Blue, Red and Oak, I have no idea who the other characters were that you mentioned, so I'm pretty sure most casual players won't know either. Besides just having a character from the older games is an insignificant addition when the formula is changed. Also Unova is one of the more recent generations, I was referring to gen 1 and 2 when I was mentioning the nostalgia feel, but for some 15 year olds that might be great.

 

[Illusionss]

GX made a theory that since the league is in there might be gyms as well. All around Alola there are these big empty spaces that could be where gyms are being built. Of course this is just theory so it could be wrong.
Edit: Here's the video

Spoiler:

https://youtu.be/zZqVPiY1yVk

Doubtful, but I hope so. Pokemon without gym badges to collect would feel bizarre and not in a good way.