Windows upping their SPY game

[Quto]

All I have to say to this latest development is just no.-_-
I would face palm, but that emote is not in here.

It was recently announced Windows 10 would have a new feature that would track users on what they do, what programs are beings used, what websites they go to among other bits of information. When businesses and other customers who prefer to have some amount of privacy learned that this was being pushed into Windows 10, they we're looking to fall back on Windows 8 and 7; where Microsoft then announced that they would be putting this on those systems as well.

They're getting to be as worse as the NSA and the dictator ship in North Korea.

My Exaggeration:
I'm agitated they are going through so much trouble to tag their users whereabouts. They could also have the possibility to turn users away from things they don't want us to know or see items such as free software like Open Office, forcing us to swallow their BS of microsoft subscriptions and be forced to buy their products.

If worse comes to worse, I'm looking into converting towards a Linux platform and only keeping windows to run games that won't run on the Linux platform.

That's at least what I think, anyone else have an opinion about this?

 

[Legendary Silke]

For context and minimal telemetry really does mean almost minimal telemetry, off-kilter traffic aside (of which nothing too unique exists)

Always check the settings and change them as you see fit - a lot of features necessitate the sending of information to and from the Internet and Microsoft, so make the right trade-offs.

If you were asking me, it's just a problem of FUD and people not understanding what they're signing up on. A lot of things are spelled out in plain sight during Windows Setup's OOBE.

 

[Mewtwolover]

I'm looking into converting towards a Linux platform and only keeping windows to run games that won't run on the Linux platform.

I recommend to do that now, Windows is already bad enough.

 

[Quto]

I recommend to do that now, Windows is already bad enough.

I have a laptop running linux;
But I'm currently in college and they're demanding all the bull to be turned in to come from a windows 'computer.'

This may be a while for me before I get another hard drive to dedicate Linux to.

 

[Shirona]

Watch out, watch out. The tinfoil hat brigade is growing again

 

[Palkia]

https://bgr.com/2015/08/14/windows-10-spying-prevention-privacy-tools/

Try out some of these tools, they should help out with preventing any privacy issues. The real problem is having to use those tools at all. Companies make monopolies by selling data to other companies, so why not add tracking to a new version of windows that's free for their existing userbase? We need laws to be made against taking information without permission asap.

 

[Touched]

We need laws to be made against taking information without permission asap.

The problem is that they technically do have your permission if you agree to their EULA.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Watch out, watch out. The tinfoil hat brigade is growing again

Likening people who value their own personal privacy to people who full well believe aliens are monitoring their brainwaves is more than a little absurd, don't you think?

Anywho, like Twiggy so kindly pointed out in our last bout, the privacy invasions Windows makes are not new. What is new is a rekindled interest in privacy, which brings to the front those who adamantly care about their privacy and those who for some bizarre reason want to advocate in favour of those privacy invasions.

I always thought if something belongs to you, why would you give it up to a stranger for nothing in return? If Microsoft was my favourite uncle I'd be a lot less likely to advocate secrecy against them, but the fact is they're a corporation with an agenda, and with how large they are they most definitely have political interests. Ed Snowden in his leak pointed out that the NSA contracts with Microsoft for data mining, and this is relevant because it's proof that Microsoft does, in fact, relinquish your information to third parties who may or may not use that information in your interests (and can very well use it against you – the government isn't always on your side). Plus, if you're foreign, it may compound issues should you be flagged for political reasons and attempt travel, though I can't imagine what you would do to get flagged (none of us really know). Traveling to a place like Vietnam may be more difficult because your Windows computer is tunneling data about Vietnam to their servers and selling them to almost anybody, and the Vietnamese government is more than likely to raise question to that, for instance.

So, what exactly are we giving up to these strange people whom we've never met?

Well, Microsoft tells you themselves! Here:

Name and contact data. We collect your first and last name, email address, postal address, phone number, and other similar contact data.
Credentials. We collect passwords, password hints, and similar security information used for authentication and account access.
Demographic data. We collect data about you such as your age, gender, country and preferred language.
Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect.
Payment data. We collect data necessary to process your payment if you make purchases, such as your payment instrument number (such as a credit card number), and the security code associated with your payment instrument.
Usage data. We collect data about how you interact with our services. This includes data, such as the features you use, the items you purchase, the web pages you visit, and the search terms you enter. This also includes data about your device, including IP address, device identifiers, regional and language settings, and data about the network, operating system, browser or other software you use to connect to the services. And it also includes data about the performance of the services and any problems you experience with them.
Contacts and relationships. We collect data about your contacts and relationships if you use a Microsoft service to manage contacts, or to communicate or interact with other people or organizations.
Location data. We collect data about your location, which can be either precise or imprecise. Precise location data can be Global Position System (GPS) data, as well as data identifying nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi hotspots, we collect when you enable location-based services or features. Imprecise location data includes, for example, a location derived from your IP address or data that indicates where you are located with less precision, such as at a city or postal code level.
Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:

• subject line and body of an email,
• text or other content of an instant message,
• audio and video recording of a video message, and
• audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate.

Additionally, when you contact us, such as for customer support, phone conversations or chat sessions with our representatives may be monitored and recorded. If you enter our retail stores, your image may be captured by our security cameras.
You have choices about the data we collect. When you are asked to provide personal data, you may decline. But if you choose not to provide data that is necessary to provide a service, you may not be able to use some features or services.

I would take anything written after the words "such as" with a hefty grain of salt, as that's a keyword that leads into debate of meaning. Many a bad court verdict has been made in the U.S. through a combination of money and lawyer's debate.

So. They've got your name, your phone number, your e-mail, your browsing history, your location, and on top of that they have usage statistics, network statistics, file analytics, and everything you put into your keyboard. It looks like they're just taking everything they can get their hands on! They want this information to better market to you, and that would be all great and wonderful if this was simply a first-and-second-party exclusive exchange. They're also selling your name, your phone number, your e-mail, your browsing history, your location, and on top of that they're selling usage statistics, network statistics, file analytics, and everything you put into your keyboard. Your identity and all of your day-to-day digital activities—essentially everything on Windows—is being sold to companies (and possibly people) whom you bear no contract with, have never met, never will meet, and have no power of negotiation with even if you did meet them. The idea of power of negotiation brings us right back to square one: why are we giving up something for nothing to these strangers and their stranger-friends?

The reason is simple: Microsoft's users don't care. They are wholly (or nearly wholly) convinced that anything bad doesn't apply to them, and that "realistically" no harm will ever come to them by giving up their personal lives to Microsoft and whoever else. It amounts to an empty and invalid concept of ego and personal righteousness, really. You have no damn clue what they're doing with that data, why they want it, or why they're taking it. Nahhh, it's all good, right? I mean, what could possibly happen?



Here's a post about Windows 10's "overblown privacy connotations" cited with things a little more concrete—in fact, they're all rooted in facts of the matter—than, say, an opinionated article on Petri. lol

 

[Legendary Silke]

Well, Microsoft tells you themselves! Here:

Good darned job on just quoting the privacy statement without context, Nick. All these data being collected is there for a reason! Like, say, now how are you going to have a Microsoft account without your name, for example? Or how you'd be stuck with no browser data synchronization and stuff if you didn't let them keep your passwords? (Or for the matter of it, how are you going to log into your spiffy new account?) Just because they do collect the data doesn't mean that they will sell the data to others!

Nick, you really should do a lot more research on why the privacy statement is being written like this. Almost everything in there that you've pointed out is directly tied to at least one feature that is very useful to the end user. Don't want to give them any information? Don't use a Microsoft account. It's that simple. And I'm going to bet that most normal and many technical people are going to gladly take the "risk" and appreciate the additional features that, well, lots of this that enables.

Thank you for understanding. (Also, it's Paul Thurrott. You know, decades in the business of reporting on things in ways that make sense?)

 

[Shirona]

Likening people who value their own personal privacy to people who full well believe aliens are monitoring their brainwaves is more than a little absurd, don't you think?

Well, Microsoft tells you themselves!

Cut your quote for brevity because I stopped reading after the quotes.

A privacy statement has to state the sorts of data they collect, but not necessarily where or why it collects them. But let Microsoft clarify that for you themselves some day.

You're only fuelling the tinfoil hat brigade if you're trying to tell me that they're monitoring every keystroke so they can collect your personal data. They can only get from you what you provide or opt to provide them. Anything else and they're in violation. Any purpose they don't state and they're in violation. It's correct to say that the purposes the privacy statement suggests is overly broad, but hey, I bet you tried so hard to read the TOS that went with signing up for your email accounts too, ignoring that they likely said the same thing.

Pathetic.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Good darned job on just quoting the privacy statement without context, Nick. All these data being collected is there for a reason! Like, say, now how are you going to have a Microsoft account without your name, for example? Or how you'd be stuck with no browser data synchronization and stuff if you didn't let them keep your passwords? (Or for the matter of it, how are you going to log into your spiffy new account?) Just because they do collect the data doesn't mean that they will sell the data to others!

Nick, you really should do a lot more research on why the privacy statement is being written like this. Almost everything in there that you've pointed out is directly tied to at least one feature that is very useful to the end user. Don't want to give them any information? Don't use a Microsoft account. It's that simple. And I'm going to bet that most normal and many technical people are going to gladly take the "risk" and appreciate the additional features that, well, lots of this that enables.

Thank you for understanding. (Also, it's Paul Thurrott. You know, decades in the business of reporting on things in ways that make sense?)

Cut your quote for brevity because I stopped reading after the quotes.

A privacy statement has to state the sorts of data they collect, but not necessarily where or why it collects them. But let Microsoft clarify that for you themselves some day.

You're only fuelling the tinfoil hat brigade if you're trying to tell me that they're monitoring every keystroke so they can collect your personal data. They can only get from you what you provide or opt to provide them. Anything else and they're in violation. Any purpose they don't state and they're in violation. It's correct to say that the purposes the privacy statement suggests is overly broad, but hey, I bet you tried so hard to read the TOS that went with signing up for your email accounts too, ignoring that they likely said the same thing.

Pathetic.

I don't see a single source of reputable material anywhere in your posts. As far as I'm concerned everything you just said is totally baseless! xD

By the way, that whole part you didn't read about quoting Microsoft without explaining why? I already did that. You didn't read though, sorry for you :P

 

[Shirona]

I don't see a single source of reputable material anywhere in your posts. As far as I'm concerned everything you just said is totally baseless! xD

By the way, that whole part you didn't read about quoting Microsoft without explaining why? I already did that. You didn't read though, sorry for you :P

I hope you spent the time reading the agreements too. And hey, the onus is in you here too, because you're simply fuelling the baseless privacy claims. Sorry to say but you're not earning any points here.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Except you forgot one extremely important line:


That list therefore isn't all-inclusive if you don't use all of their features or services. If you use, say, only one application, it won't collect all of that data, just what is relevant to that program/service/feature.

For example, I disabled Cortana on my laptop since I don't use it. Therefore, it can't collect anything through its use because I've disabled it, which I am well allowed to do (Plus, it doesn't work in Canada unless you use a preview build).

I guess if you don't want to give up your name you'll just have to stop using their financial services and use a pseudonym for every service you use. If you don't want every document, file and program you have analyzed you'll just have to stop using Windows then, eh?

It's not really that different of a case when you bring up the selectivity of data mining. They're still data mining lol, most everyone I know online has a Skype and uses Windows, so they're relinquishing that information too. It's not a very strong counterargument, tbh.

 

[Legendary Silke]

I guess if you don't want to give up your name you'll just have to stop using their financial services and use a pseudonym for every service you use. If you don't want every document, file and program you have analyzed you'll just have to stop using Windows then, eh?

It's not really that different of a case when you bring up the selectivity of data mining. They're still data mining lol, most everyone I know online has a Skype and uses Windows, so they're relinquishing that information too. It's not a very strong counterargument, tbh.

You're being obtuse when everything is explicitly spelled out during Windows setup. That alone is a very strong counterargument.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

You're being obtuse when everything is explicitly spelled out during Windows setup. That alone is a very strong counterargument.

Your words alone don't magically change the reality of things. Sorry if you thought that, but I've spoke the truth here.

 

[Tsutarja]

If you're worried about Microsoft spying on you, then just don't use the internet. :)

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

If you're worried about Microsoft spying on you, then just don't use the internet. :)

 

[Foxrally]

If you're worried about Microsoft spying on you, then just don't use the internet. :)

Wha-... Do y-... I-.....

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Edit: By the way, I can physically prove that MS only sends portions of files (That is, not the entire fucking thing) when they say that they want samples of files, particularly from their security scans.

Then do so! Haha, what's all this talk about? Why didn't you?

I mean - he's right. If you don't want them (or anyone, for what it's worth, if you value privacy so much) spying on you, then physically prevent them from spying on you: don't use the internet, period. It is, quite literally, the best solution to the problem.
Your ISP is probably logging sites that you visit without you knowing, your web browser may have some tracking cookies from a few sites that you may commonly visit, all of this is sending back information that you may not want. Besides, as I've said before, you should only have to worry about privacy if you have something to hide. It's not like the government already has all this information on you anyway (Such as address and phone numbers and your legal name). And don't start on how it's so Orwellian - it's the hard truth.

Jordan... you're quite slick. I have to admit that. You've tried to back me into a corner and attempt to invalidate my word by pretending to advocate for my side, trying to paint a picture of absurdity by riddling your account of my view with hyperbole. That's a really old trick.

The reality is, it really doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned it was over before it started. Enjoy your mass surveillance, whatever. I still get virtually every benefit you do without it. Yes, even including the only thing that's keeping Windows relevant – PC video games. I even run Steam, download dat shit at the library~

Microsoft Apologists: Stopping at nothing to defend businessmen and shareholders from profitting off of the world's people and property. What are they, Soviet Youths?

 

[Legendary Silke]

Jordan... you're quite slick. I have to admit that. You've tried to back me into a corner and attempt to invalidate my word by pretending to advocate for my side, trying to paint a picture of absurdity by riddling your account of my view with hyperbole. That's a really old trick.

The reality is, it really doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned it was over before it started. Enjoy your mass surveillance, whatever. I still get virtually every benefit you do without it. Yes, even including the only thing that's keeping Windows relevant – PC video games. I even run Steam, download dat **** at the library~

Microsoft Apologists: Stopping at nothing to defend businessmen and shareholders from profitting off of the world's people and property. What are they, Soviet Youths?

No one is being an apologist when they're merely stating facts that you have glossed over. I think you're reading way too much into things lately, and unfortunately you seem to have believed all the FUD out there on Windows 10. No, really, a lot of them aren't even remotely true - at least after you consider what's going on, and the fact that pretty much every single one of them is controllable.

I'm done arguing. If you still want to believe what you want, it's fine. But do not be alarmed if a good amount of people disagree with you. I think I'll just let you be the judge on all this, but, frankly, if you ask me, all this is for nothing, and if we had to complain, shouldn't we have been doing it back in the days of Windows XP, anyway?