With Dignity [Morbidly Mature Themes]

[Jauntier]

Here's a portion of a working opening post to this role-play I'm thinking of bringing here during the summer, possibly. This is the gist of the role-play. If this interests you, do ask me questions on prospects of the role-play you are unsure about so that in answering, I can hopefully tweak my own plans of something I may not have thought about in all this time of considering.

With Dignity

Friday, February 2, 20XX

+1 New Message



Today we do it.

Don't leave them a note.

Leave them your dead body.

You will kill yourself today.

You live in Jude, a modern, coastal American city of 300,000 people. You are a registered student at the University of Jude, an institution of 7,000 students. Graduation will be in 120 days. It doesn't matter if you are eligible to graduate. It doesn't matter if you have been attending University at all, lately. None of it matters. You are sick of everything. Now you want to end it all.​

We made an oath to die.

It doesn't matter if your circumstances justify this desire. You may have thought about this for a long time. You may have decided last month with the others. You may have just come to terms with it today. 29 days ago in a text chat, you made a pact with four other students from University to meet in Gethsemane Park on this final date. You are going to see this through.​

I promise it won't hurt.

You only need to show. Don't flake out. Don't rat us out. Dolly will take care of everything. You will die with dignity.​

Critical Update Notification​

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With Dignity: The Basics

Five university students made a pact with each other to commit group suicide. The group's unofficial head, Dolly, has suggested at the final meet up to perform a commemorate rite for their solidarity in death. Unbeknownst to even her, the rite is actually a satanic ritual, and it summons supernatural manifestations of their ill wills as unique, sentient demons. The demons begrudgingly inform the students that the beings are bound to their respective host, and the only way to be freed is if their host either finds and performs their unique cleansing ritual, or dies. If the host dies while still bound to their demon, they will suffer a gruesome eternity in a tormenting afterlife. You may choose to either be a student who wishes to die by their own hand and avoid Hell, or a student's tormenting demon with the ultimate desire to be unbound.​

OK

Performance Warning​

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This role-play has mature themes!

The topic of suicide is a pervasive theme in this role-play. Other mature subjects may include but are not limited to: mental health, drug and alcohol use, and graphic violence. While sexual themes are allowed, be mindful of the forum's rules concerning graphic descriptions of that nature.​

OK

Now, as this is a premise that still needs work, those who appear interested or concerned had some questions on subject matter, plot, and game mechanics. Within the spoiler are questions already asked, some proposals, and my responses:

Spoiler: Questions, Comments, Concerns

Q: "Suicide is a very sensitive topic, and it might come across as insensitive for some forum users if you want to make a RP where the goal is to commit it. You're not worried about that?" -- adventure
A: Suicide is not the goal. Students begin the role-play with the intent to commit suicide. This is disrupted by the accidental summoning of demons during the pact. The story revolves around the ordeal of students attempting to destroy their unique and bound demons. The goal is to succeed, but the student may fail by succumbing to the antagonistic circumstances, and thus default to suicide despite the consequence of a tormented afterlife by their demon. My hope is that through enduring and vanquishing the demonic presence, the remaining students have a renewed vigor for life. Some, though, may come out of it with an even greater desire to end, but now without the fear of an assured torment in the afterlife.
Now for users here, it goes without saying: if you do not like the themes of a role-play, do not join said role-play.

Q: "According to your description, demons' actions would be very dependent on the person they're possessing. That on its own makes activity an issue; what if the other player isn't there to help progress two characters?" -- Disclosed; shared concern of gimmepie
A: I sort of do want some connectivity between players, otherwise I wouldn't have considered the demon position to be a player character as well. Originally, the option for a player to drop out of the role-play was viable via collaborating on a final post for either the student's success or failure. But that also wouldn't be quite fair if a player still wanted to continue their story but had two weeks of other priorities taking precedence, I recognize. Things will have to be ironed out. I do still want students to have a special connection with their unique demon, but I need to expand upon the privileges of the demons.

Q: "I suppose the issue I'm foreseeing is a lack of conflict or hindrance from the plot considering that all the students are kind of resolved to kill themselves already" -- Collector Elwood
A: I took some time to consider this comment, and this is true. Originally I had a 7-day grace period where student characters must not end themselves as they seek to get rid of their demon, and then after that period of time, they are free to continue or fail. And yet there realistically was no incentive for that grace period, nor would it properly reflect a variety of character beliefs if the only threat is what would appear as a hallucination calling to drag them down to a hellscape should they kill themselves. I realize now that someone who has given up on life would not necessarily fight for it back because of a threat to themselves, at least, not concerning a hardcore character, which is the extreme I too wish to encompass. There needs to be a greater bargaining chip, and the stakes need to be raised into something greater than themselves-- endangering the lives of innocents or loved ones. There's more player agency in creating a demon there, as they are less of a looming put-down and more of a malevolent threat. It is something I will work with, because it also gives student players a driving force that says they are only keeping alive for now to keep another safe.

 

[Junier]

Cute!~ <3

May I have some clarification on the demon-human dynamic? Players can play as either but how would their roles be similar or different? A demon's main aspiration would be getting a student to kill themselves but what else could they do? What other limits would they have?

 

[moon]

So... Will this RP likely be mostly about people trying to kill themselves, or rather about the human-demon interactions? Sounds... grim ._. Suicide is a very sensitive topic, and it might come across as insensitive for some forum users if you want to make a RP where the goal is to commit it. You're not worried about that?

 

[Junier]

Suicide is a very sensitive topic, and it might come across as insensitive for some forum users if you want to make a RP where the goal is to commit it.

(Technically, the goal isn't to commit suicide, it seems, rather to avoid committing it and thus avoiding Hell.)

 

[moon]

Oh, I might have misunderstood that. "A student who wishes to die by their own hand" it still says though.

 

[Jauntier]

Cute!~ <3

May I have some clarification on the demon-human dynamic? Players can play as either but how would their roles be similar or different? A demon's main aspiration would be getting a student to kill themselves but what else could they do? What other limits would they have?

Very good questions! I'll give you my developments thus far but they are definitely open to suggestions that I'll mull over, as the dynamic is admittedly a bit lop-sided and I want to get closer to equalizing them:

In this modern and realistic yet fictional setting, students have free reign throughout the city. Demons are a partner that tags along for the psychological ride. Demons are essentially a conscious to the student, and with their slight influence on the natural plane, can create nuanced circumstances in the physical. They, though, cannot descend nor ascend from the plane they are on, or grant supernatural abilities to their student.

My hope with demons is that their presence may inadvertently strengthen the character and see the better out of life by withstanding the entire ordeal. It will be a learning experience, demons in this universe are not above learning for themselves about the natural plane, or even developing an appreciation for the natural, but they are still the antagonistic force in this role-play and ultimately bent on freeing themselves without being destroyed by their demon's unique cleansing ritual.

So... Will this RP likely be mostly about people trying to kill themselves, or rather about the human-demon interactions? Sounds... grim ._. Suicide is a very sensitive topic, and it might come across as insensitive for some forum users if you want to make a RP where the goal is to commit it. You're not worried about that?

The antagonistic force, the demons, from the get-go reveal the consequences of their student intentionally offing oneself, which is a tormented afterlife. As a measure so the role-play doesn't end too quickly, students will live with this presence for seven days before they determine whether or not it is worth dealing with this. For all they know, it may be that they've broken down into a schizophrenic behavior and it's the last straw. Other students may believe that because of the way this manifestation was brought about, they can end it the same way and pursue a unique cleansing ritual to purify them of their particular demon.

The choice of whether or not the student survives is up to the player, but as I said to Disclosed, my hope is that the demonic presence inadvertently strengthens the character, as if they can withstand this, then perhaps they have a stronger spirit to withstand the circumstances in their own lives for a little longer. It's rekindling the desire to live and experience life for the better.

If a forum user does not like the premise of my role-play, which I have already forewarned deals with a morbid, mature topic at the forefront, they simply will not join it--which is a respect to me and those who wish to join. So no, there is no point in worrying about optional participation.

 

[Junier]

Very good questions! I'll give you my developments thus far but they are definitely open to suggestions that I'll mull over, as the dynamic is admittedly a bit lop-sided and I want to get closer to equalizing them:

I see; there's a common theme between the humans and demons that's developing already, and I like that.

The thing is, I think the RP could run into some difficulties if players are expected to play, essentially, consciences of other players. I'd personally think it discouraging to control a practically static character, as in they would never go places willingly.

According to your description, demons' actions would be very dependent on the person they're possessing. That on its own makes activity an issue; what if the other player isn't there to help progress two characters? Then there's also player bias to consider. In situations that require cooperation, people will always go for their friends or whoever they'd be comfortable keeping up with. If a new person joins as a student or a demon, they would have a harder time finding someone to possess or be possessed by. Of course, you as the game master could choose for people but then that comfort becomes an issue again. Not everyone works well together, after all.

I think to prevent or at least lessen a situation where certain players become isolated and others just stop making progress altogether, players should control two characters: a main student and an almost side-character/"NPC" demon. That way, if people begin to fall behind, two people aren't at stake, people feel responsible for the fates of their characters.

I think assigning someone's "side-character" demon to a different player's student would really make for a more connected group rather than, potentially, a bunch of separate sub-plots set in a common universe. At the same time, the whole player biases and comforts still prove problematic, to some extent.

What do you think? How would you go about solving problems like these, if you think they're problems at all? And is how I interpreted your explanation of the mechanics accurate to how you pictured things?

 

[Who's Kiyo?]

HERE ARE MY COMMENTS DAD

I think this game would benefit from a bit more structure and gamification with the concept of the partner demon. There really isn't much for the players to struggle against besides their own suicidal habit, which as you've said, they can submit to even before the game has begun. The only thing keeping them alive is their fear of being eternally tortured.

However, I think there's a lot of potential in this! As you've mentioned, the demon doesn't have to wait until the person group-suicides. The players should be faced with attempts on their life or dangerous situations they have to make decisions in: maybe they have to cleverly write their way out things, or even have to choose between helping/hindering someone else. Similar to your reprimand/incarceration concept in Cornered. Maybe the demon can move them in their sleep or possess them sporadically during their day and they wake up to dangerous situations. I would definitely love to play out this. Hey, if you go with the idea that people can control other's demons, those players can make those situations.

Perhaps the "day" within the game has to be spent in a specific location? It just feels like there's too much potential and not enough plot to expand on.​

 

[Jauntier]

I see; there's a common theme between the humans and demons that's developing already, and I like that.

The thing is, I think the RP could run into some difficulties if players are expected to play, essentially, consciences of other players. I'd personally think it discouraging to control a practically static character, as in they would never go places willingly.

Your concern about favoritism among players is true, but I will not pretend that this role-play's sign up will be structured to work against that. A truth about role-play is that players choose to work with those whom they are most familiar with, as they consider that person to be more reliable than an utter stranger for a number of plausible reasons. It's also an assurance to the GM that players, be they coupled, are working with people whom they enjoy working with and consider reliable or more apt to being understanding, cooperative, and predictably available. It assures that the role-play lasts longer. That, though, does unfortunately shunt out newer players, and I'm empathetic to that, though there is nothing I can do about it short of forcing pairs, which I know will not work in the long run for this type of role-play as it stands now.

But I should explain how I initially considered the sign-up process:

Students sign up first. With the available students on the roster, those who wish to play as a demon can claim a student in the OOC with their demon application. If everything is up to par in their application, the pair is formed and that's that.

As for quitting the role-play, since I give the option for players who want out of the role-play to just make a final decision post, either the student finding and performing the successful cleansing rite or a post with a heavy implication that the student carried out an act to end their life, the story can flow sensically and the two players can be on their way. The story, though, does require some dedication, since I'm thinking these decisions cannot be made until seven IC days after the binding. Cast cannot be replaced, either, so when this RP is done, it is done through individual characters' resolutions.

I sort of do want some connectivity between players, otherwise I wouldn't have considered the demon position to be a player character as well, but if people express the preference to just control their own characters and write their story, they may, but that feels too free, and when it becomes too free, the unmotivated become aimless because they cannot keep churning out their character's progression, which is a common situation with sandbox-style role-plays. I want to avoid that.

I like the idea of players signing up with both a student and a demon to play, and their demon possessing another player. My only concern is if one person slacks, that's two other people they're pulling back, their own student who needs to respond to their demon's player, and their own demon who needs to respond to another student player. This is where that whole player favoritism issue you brought up comes in handy, but then I may as well be upfront about that and say that the role-play is a closed, pre-invite RP instead of lying through pretense that it's open to everyone when the concern is keeping things afloat with people who have a more active presence on the forums and established "reputation".

Talk about the social politics of a role-play forum. Goodness.

As for your interpretation of the demon mechanic, I want to know how mobile you think the demons are, and how dedicated to the goal you think the demons are required to present throughout the role-play, as well as how consistently. Those are big factors, I feel, between feeling less restricted in that role than the basic description of the mechanic lets on.

 

[Jauntier]

I think this game would benefit from a bit more structure and gamification with the concept of the partner demon. There really isn't much for the players to struggle against besides their own suicidal habit, which as you've said, they can submit to even before the game has begun. The only thing keeping them alive is their fear of being eternally tortured.​

Thank you for your feedback. You are not my son.

Students may submit to their tendency after seven IC days, is what I had initially planned. Which in itself is a statement: I do not mind how short the role-play may end up being considering the onus is on characters who initially want to end themselves prematurely, regardless of how they develop after that initial goal. Ha.

Yes, this so far is handled drastically different from Cornered On The Market!. This takes on a kind of narrative sandbox, whose genres are modern slice-of-life with pervasive psychological horror elements. That isn't to say there cannot be mechanics or gameplay that I can churn out as a GM that forcibly engages the players beyond the premise of their situation, but my concern is the balance between my GM's suggestions (read: demand, considering the GM status) that so far I feel like I could only express as types of mission objectives, versus the free creativity of personal narrative by the players. This is something where I'm absolutely open to suggestions, as specific as they may even be, if it reigns in a scope other players feel is needed to guide them along.

I'm not sure about possession. I did have in the rest of my notes the express ban of a possession ability in demons, because demon players could just have students walk into oncoming traffic or something and say "I did it, I win." Demons have a couple unique abilities that a play can write up for that character, and possession and the ability to be perfectly or near-perfectly persuasive are the two forbidden. If the possession skill can be handled differently, I will permit it in limitation, but I cannot see that for myself, you know?

I will definitely think of ways to build up more structure. The summoned demons have the ability to see and interact with each other. They are free to cohort together in thinking up ways for their student to die by their own will. Students, though, can only see their unique demon clearly, as another student's demon appears as a faint, indistinct figure to them--just to keep a shade of eerie doubt prevalent.

My character is Dolly, the student who bright all of the students together and unwittingly cursed herself and the rest of the lot. She is a central character between student players and I know for a fact that she will want to get rid of her demon so that she doesn't have the threat of a demented afterlife, since she is an eclectic concerning religion and occult. She will try to cooperate with players to get to the bottom of things, so I will have her as a vital asset in keeping the group together, despite her own issues.

But again, I don't know if, for the role-play I have now, I can employ mission-like objectives in the way that one typically thinks of them, like Cornered. I would have to sit down and think of a way to subvert it rather than avert it, but using Dolly to have the group do more meet ups and visit places in the city to help them with their issue is a step in your desired direction, yes?

 

[Who's Kiyo?]

I suppose the issue I'm foreseeing is a lack of conflict or hindrance from the plot considering that all the students are kind of resolved to kill themselves already; sure, we got the whole hell torture thing and the cleansing ritual, but for some reason that feels like it doesn't have enough variety in itself to therefore produce a variety of characters to exist within the universe. Maybe, idk. I guess the bottom line for me is "what are we doing for seven whole days whether or not we decide to kill ourselves by the end, sans the cleansing ritual? What do we do if our character doesn't care about the whole hell thing? One post and kill ourself?"

To boot, if there isn't the fear of elimination and the demon, what kind of role player (sans those with activity issues who need to leave the RP for extenuating circumstances) is going to kill themselves prematurely?​

 

[Jauntier]

I suppose the issue I'm foreseeing is a lack of conflict or hindrance from the plot considering that all the students are kind of resolved to kill themselves already​

I figured that the character variety would come in through the nature of the character themselves, their background, their views of life before it fell into a dubiousness brought on by their personal circumstances, and how strong their tendency to end is. I suppose I should say in plain that as I have it now, the student is the central role and all else revolves around it. I did already admit that the weight is lop-sided, but I will think of what to do to adjust it, as I do not want the demon to appear as merely an accessory. That requires, perhaps, expanding the role of the demon, or at least their privileges.

I personally feel it's a little refreshing to ponder from the beginning whether or not you want your character to survive, when death is an imposed theme. A deep struggle, even the deterioration of a character I don't think is often explored, and this may be a new perspective for players to delve into, those who can handle it. This role-play is meant to be jarring. What I decided to show in my gist is supposed to illicit a reaction, and while it may repel people who tread the fence about "mature" themes, this is a concept that is out of the ordinary--not just for this subforum, but a lot of people. It may intrigue people who like working around the darker parts of a character's psyche, either to get them to a better place, or a worse one. If someone wants their character to end up dead through their story for the experience of writing out an in-depth tragedy, so be it. That's an interesting character dynamic. This is after all, for those reading and concerned about moralities, a character, and one being haunted by a devil, at that.

As for what a student wants to do for the initial seven days is up to them. I would be having Dolly try to correct her mistake once she realized it and rally to keep the rest of her group together for that week until they can all find their cleanse, but you are right in that there is otherwise no incentive if a player writes a character who doesn't believe in what they consider these hellish hallucinations, and was adamant the entire time to do flat out die. They would only last that long because the GM is trying to meta this out, haha!

That, I will consider.

EDIT: I have considered. And what you say, Elwood, is again true: there realistically was no incentive for that grace period, nor would it properly reflect a variety of character beliefs. I realize now that someone who has given up on life would not necessarily fight for it back because of a threat to themselves, at least, not concerning a hardcore character, which is the extreme I too wish to encompass. There needs to be a greater bargaining chip, and the stakes need to be raised into something greater than themselves.

The go-to would be the destruction of life outside of themselves. Endangering the lives of innocents or loved ones. There's more player agency in creating a demon now, as they are less of a looming put-down and more of a malevolent threat. It is something I will work with, because it also gives student players a driving force that says they are only keeping alive for now to keep another safe.

Something to further develop, surely.

 

[gimmepie]

I really like the concept of the RP, I'm a fan of darker RPs and this a really unique idea. I've only ever seen one RP that was even remotely similar. We ran into a few problems in that RP though, in which for those of us playing demons (well they were angels in that RP) we had very little control of where we were going and what we were doing. Our entire plot revolved around the decisions of another person. This is assuming that the activity was kept up on both sides, what happens if one person has life issues come up and has to take a break or something?

I love the concept, but I think it would work better without tethering people together. RPs work best when flexible.

 

[Jauntier]

This is assuming that the activity was kept up on both sides, what happens if one person has life issues come up and has to take a break or something?

I love the concept, but I think it would work better without tethering people together. RPs work best when flexible.

Thank you; I'm glad you find the idea interesting.

Yes, Disclosed has brought up the concern of forcing strict pairs for the life of a role-play, and Collector Elwood's separate concerns did have me admit that as I have it now, everything revolves around the student. I should probably write out in the first post of this thread what all has been discussed, as there's a lot of back-and-forth.

I will rework some things as of the current discussion which will hopefully address this along the way, but originally, the option for a player to drop out of the role-play was viable via collaborating on a final post for either the student's success or failure. But that also wouldn't be quite fair if a player still wanted to continue their story but had two weeks of other priorities taking precedence, I recognize. Things will have to be ironed out.

I do still want students to have a special connection with their unique demon, but I need to expand upon the privileges of the demons.

I'm beginning to lean into a sort of subverted demon-slayer concept, making it so that the demons are an actual threat to loved ones and innocents as well by their release. That is already a great expanse than what I had originally, and much more of a driving force. I also want to encourage some very strange, surreal scenarios, something with some Junji Ito-esque or Lovecraftian nuances, perhaps.

How do you suppose?

 

[Junier]

As your explicit response to me was mainly reinstating what I'd already detailed and you've come to a good number of conclusions since I last posted, I'll just leave for you some very general criticism. I apologize immensely in advance if it isn't helpful.

I think, in its original, intended form, the roleplay idea itself is remarkably creative but also remarkably difficult to make work on this forum in-particular, or perhaps any roleplay forum. The opening post without any extended information portrays a pretty straightforward concept but, as we've asked questions and gave suggestions, there appears to be a lot of underlying complications under the surface, from player relations to character preoccupations, making the ordeal feel "gamey", as Elwood described.

I think leading a discussion of outside opinions is helpful, but only to an extent. In the end, it's your idea, Jauntier, and you'll be the only one truly motivated enough to see it grow and evolve, being that you're the only one who will truly understand your vision.

Basically, good luck with that, lol. But, seriously, I hope you find a way to hopefully make this work because I really would like to write for this.

 

[Jauntier]

But, seriously, I hope you find a way to hopefully make this work because I really would like to write for this.

My apologies if that answer came as a restatement but it helped me work through my own reasoning and for readers, expanded on the issue of your question as well.

No, thank you for the interest. Discussion helps uncover flaws that I would have otherwise not have seen, and now I have something to expand upon.

I know this is something I can make totally work as a personal novella, because as you said, this is my strange new vision. But turning it into a role-play requires a much more focused set of skills to accommodate for other people fleshing out this skeleton.

I want to share this with others and allow others to give a hand into making this an interesting and interactive read, but as it is now, I certainly do need to reframe it as less of a narrative and more like a game.

Thank you all for your participation.

 

[gimmepie]

How do you suppose?

I don't really want to tell you how to run your RP, but I'll think on it a bit and see if anything worthwhile comes to mind.

 

[Etherion]

Dark and Gothic. I like it! Though it discusses themes that are mature, I still think that this will be quite the interesting RP, I wouldn't expect less from the great Jauntier. Good luck on running this!

 

[Jauntier]

Dark and Gothic. I like it! Though it discusses themes that are mature, I still think that this will be quite the interesting RP, I wouldn't expect less from the great Jauntier. Good luck on running this!

Oh my, now that is a flattering title. I appreciate it; thank you.

As I sit down to think about this, I think I may have this take on a more demon-hunter twist, but in order for it to work uniformly on the student's end, I may make stipulations so that they are at least minimally knowledgeable of the supernatural, but this is all to be considered.

When I feel that I have sufficiently reworked With Dignity, I will announce it.

 

[gimmepie]

I think allowing for characters totally unfamiliar with the supernatural will make interactions and plot lines a lot more interesting.