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XY Ash vs Paul

Who's Better?

  • Total voters
    19
If we are using the Paul AG Ash faced then he would get obliterated. XY Ash would not fall for that mind games and would rip him apart for his ideals. As for a new and improved Paul, Ash would beat him but barely seeing as his attitude shifted slightly.
 
XY Ash really isn't that good of a trainer. Sheesh.

But with the Ash/Paul dynamic, I think it came down primarily to a clash of ideals, rather than skill. After Ash "proved" his ideology and approach to training produced marginally better results, I would assume that Paul would change, much like Gary changed after he lost to Ash...and Gary obliterated Ash after he won the Battle Frontier when his Electivire went up against Pikachu.

So who is to say an "XY Paul", having amended his ways in the aftermath of the Sinnoh League, wouldn't be a significantly stronger trainer than XY Ash, having very narrowly lost to him in that with his own ideology? It was only that approach that prevented him from winning, after all. Quite literally. He lost to the Infernape he discarded as a Chimchar to prove a point, and if he's learned his lesson and grown from that - growth being something Ash struggles with due to the constant resets - he'd demolish Ash.

Measuring two trainers at different points in time is a difficult undertaking. Sending XY Ash back in time to face DP Paul isn't really a fair contest - although I would argue XY Ash is inferior to DP Ash - and given that the odds of Paul ever appearing again are pretty slim, bringing him forward is speculation at best, because he MAY have softened his approach, or he may not have. Who knows.
 
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DawnLover said:
Paul would definitely beat XY Ash imo since Paul seems more strategic in battles compared to Ash in XY.
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XY Ash arguably thinks way more on his feet than DP Ash, he formulates his battle strategies quicker as well when it matters. He's also done a lot of great moves with his Pokemon to break past defenses. His Pokemon in XY are also capable of pushing themselves to the limit way more than DP.
 
XY Ash would kick Paul's stupid ass anyday because Ash in the XY series was a lot more mature and train a lot more harder , DP Ash was okay but he still made mistakes in battles.
 
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Ash in XY can think more logically about stuff but it would be varied who would win.
 
I would say that Paul would be obliterated. XY Ash was by far the most powerful even though he didn't defeat legendary pokemon, however he literally almost completely obliterated even Diantha. If Ash hadn't fainted, he would have beat her. It was shown that she didn't use full power, but I think Ash would have still won.

So I don't think there is any chance that Paul could win.

If you don't count the times Ash fainted, he only lost I think 3 times in Kalos. Against Arion(Can't remember how many times he lost), against Viola and against Wulfric. He also lost the flying race, but he was using a newly hatched Noibat.
 
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Paul easily takes this, especially if he's learnt (which he somewhat did) how to care for Pokemon to bring out the best in them.

Gary's Electivire defeated Ash's then Regice victor Pikachu without flicking an eye - and Gary is a retired trainer, changing after losing to Ash. Ash may be a good problem solver in the middle of a battle, but that's all he'll ever be regardless of saga - a problem solver. He's never acting and in control, he only ever reacts. Reacting is fine against gym leaders and co because they're not looking to beat you, they're looking to test you to see if you have what it takes. Paul put DP Ash on the ropes after figuring out Ash's team and brought Ash down to the brink of defeat (and would have lost if Infernape didn't have its gimmick). Good trainers stay in control of the situation, Ash consistently finds himself in bad situations and while he may be able to pull something out the hat, it's either (A) a BS solution (B) fluke or (C) deus ex machina, like a new move learned off-screen (HINT HINT X-SCISSOR ON TRICK ROOM).

I don't see why Paul wouldn't stick it to XY Ash. Especially since Paul wouldn't be hampered by not using his best Pokemon, like Ursaring and Torterra. XY Ash certainly wouldn't use Infernape, Snorlax, Charizard and the like.
 
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Frozocrone said:
Paul easily takes this, especially if he's learnt (which he somewhat did) how to care for Pokemon to bring out the best in them.

Gary's Electivire defeated Ash's then Regice victor Pikachu without flicking an eye - and Gary is a retired trainer, changing after losing to Ash. Ash may be a good problem solver in the middle of a battle, but that's all he'll ever be regardless of saga - a problem solver. He's never acting and in control, he only ever reacts. Reacting is fine against gym leaders and co because they're not looking to beat you, they're looking to test you to see if you have what it takes. Paul put DP Ash on the ropes after figuring out Ash's team and brought Ash down to the brink of defeat (and would have lost if Infernape didn't have its gimmick). Good trainers stay in control of the situation, Ash consistently finds himself in bad situations and while he may be able to pull something out the hat, it's either (A) a BS solution (B) fluke or (C) deus ex machina, like a new move learned off-screen (HINT HINT X-SCISSOR ON TRICK ROOM).

I don't see why Paul wouldn't stick it to XY Ash. Especially since Paul wouldn't be hampered by not using his best Pokemon, like Ursaring and Torterra. XY Ash certainly wouldn't use Infernape, Snorlax, Charizard and the like.
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And XY Ash was able to get out of bad situations by thinking on his feet and take control of the situation he show this best in his Gym battles.
 
DawnLover said:
Ash only looked almost undefeatable in XY because everyone else sucked. I mean how can you really say he's the best when his main rivals was Tierno, Trevor, and the rookie Saywer of all people? Lol.

I feel that Paul may be around Alan's level and Ash would still not be able to get the better of him as Paul is definitely smarter than Ash .
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So the Gym leaders suck too with your thinking, Paul is not Alan's level.
 
SH60 said:
And XY Ash was able to get out of bad situations by thinking on his feet and take control of the situation he show this best in his Gym battles.
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Lol, good trainers don't get themselves into bad situations.

Thanks for proving you can't spell trash without Ash.
 
SH60 said:
Good trainers get into bad situations from time to time. They can't be perfect all the time Ash is no different .
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SH60 said:
Lets use DP Ash and Paul's battle in the league when Ash told Pikachu to use VT on Electivire and got Motor Drive because of it and made Infernape battle with is harder than it needed to be.
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I'm sensing a double standard and some distinct bias here...
 
Frozocrone said:
Lol, good trainers don't get themselves into bad situations.

Thanks for proving you can't spell trash without Ash.
Click to expand...

And dare I ask you Frozocrone is there such a trainer in the series? or IRL?

You see it all the time in real life, just because your good at something doesn't mean you can't get into horrible situation. Heck I'd argue that someone who can still succeed against such odds is only emphasize their great/superior skills.

SK-T gave a 10k gold deficit (Almost insurmountable in LOL) to their opponents and yet still turn it around.
Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jydVIrwhSc4

Or

Maximilian Dood dropping to a 1v3 againts Dai and Oh in DB figher Z and still pull of an insane comeback victory.
Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQk6bIoCGW0&t=75s

Or

How about GS warriors floundering and gave the OKC thunder a 3-1 lead that they still came back to win.
 
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SH60 said:
I can say the same for you.
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Actually, no you can't, at least not as far as blatant double-standards go - I'm pretty consistent in my statements. Bias is inevitable because there is no such thing as objectivity, but I at least don't contradict myself across multiple threads. Try again.
 
CidHazard said:
And dare I ask you Frozocrone is there such a trainer in the series? or IRL?

You see it all the time in real life, just because your good at something doesn't mean you can't get into horrible situation. Heck I'd argue that someone who can still succeed against such odds is only emphasize their great/superior skills.

SK-T gave a 10k gold deficit (Almost insurmountable in LOL) to their opponents and yet still turn it around.
Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jydVIrwhSc4

Or

Maximilian Dood dropping to a 1v3 againts Dai and Oh in DB figher Z and still pull of an insane comeback victory.
Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQk6bIoCGW0&t=75s

Or

How about GS warriors floundering and gave the OKC thunder a 3-1 lead that they still came back to win.
Click to expand...

Which brings me back to Ash being a good problem solver, as I said in my first post since that's how he gets out of these situations - and yes he's good in that regard.

It still doesn't make him a 'good trainer'. I would argue that he's been able to get out of bad situations because his Pok?mon have carried him and his skillset (also the plot at times).

Could you identify Ash's battle style same way one could identify Tierno dance battling style? Or Paul's DOT/power and ability usage battle style? Or Sawyer's counter style? Do we ever see Ash have an opponent in trouble through implementation of Ash's battling strategies, or do we see the opponent's and their strategies more often and Ash going through them?

The only two things one could say about Ash is that he works best with fast Pok?mon which is an indication of his preferred type and that he's unpredictable which in itself is a foolish assessment since that's the whole point of problem solving in an unorthodox manner.

He has a pretty generic style that offers almost no strategic mannerisms to it and in some respects his XY incarnation was about brute power. To bring this round to topic, against Paul's strongest team, I would argue that brute power would not be enough on Ash's part. Heck, he barely managed it with the team he had in Sinnoh despite Infernape putting in a shift (and that was against a team of effectively four Pok?mon, since Paul had deliberately used two Pok?mon to figure out Ash's team).
 
Meyneth said:
Actually, no you can't, at least not as far as blatant double-standards go - I'm pretty consistent in my statements. Bias is inevitable because there is no such thing as objectivity, but I at least don't contradict myself across multiple threads. Try again.
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And you keep downplaying XY Ash's feats to make DP Ash look good.

Frozocrone said:
Which brings me back to Ash being a good problem solver, as I said in my first post since that's how he gets out of these situations - and yes he's good in that regard.

It still doesn't make him a 'good trainer'. I would argue that he's been able to get out of bad situations because his Pokémon have carried him and his skillset (also the plot at times).

Could you identify Ash's battle style same way one could identify Tierno dance battling style? Or Paul's DOT/power and ability usage battle style? Or Sawyer's counter style? Do we ever see Ash have an opponent in trouble through implementation of Ash's battling strategies, or do we see the opponent's and their strategies more often and Ash going through them?

The only two things one could say about Ash is that he works best with fast Pokémon which is an indication of his preferred type and that he's unpredictable which in itself is a foolish assessment since that's the whole point of problem solving in an unorthodox manner.

He has a pretty generic style that offers almost no strategic mannerisms to it and in some respects his XY incarnation was about brute power. To bring this round to topic, against Paul's strongest team, I would argue that brute power would not be enough on Ash's part. Heck, he barely managed it with the team he had in Sinnoh despite Infernape putting in a shift (and that was against a team of effectively four Pokémon, since Paul had deliberately used two Pokémon to figure out Ash's team).
Click to expand...

XY Ash had been strategic in Kalos look at his fights with the gym leaders.
 
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